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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings MrPerfect's Avatar
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    Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

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    This thread serves to index all the threads related to carbon build-up in the intake manifold of Audi FSI engines of -any- model. It's just here as a place holder index of these threads as a requisite of judging scope of the problem and raising awareness. Please read the threads for more details of this problem...

    I've tried to tag content as much as possible. With either PICS where there is photographic evidence or CONCERN where there is discussion surrounding concern of the issue.

    B7/B8 A4:
    Carbon Build up cleaning?? CONCERN
    Carbon Buildup PICS
    BG44k for controlling carbon buildup ... CONCERN
    Carbon Buildup ** tech start, not whining CONCERN
    Carbon Build Up - 2008 Audi A4 3.2L EXPERIENCE
    Audi = carbon buildup?!? CONCERN EXTERNAL
    Need input / carbon buildup on intake valves EXPERIENCE EXTERNAL
    2.0T FSI Carbon build up. PICS EXTERNAL
    Theory on combating carbon buildup: CONCERN
    Redline Speed Worx: Cylinder Head Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Service Limitations PICS
    carbon build up question CONCERN
    Carbon Build Up CONCERN
    Shell fuel for B8 2.0T ? CONCERN
    2007 Audi A4 3.2FSI - @ 147k carbon/deposit buildup PICS

    S4 3.0:
    Direct Injection and build-up issues CONCERN
    Catch Can CONCERN

    A5/S5:
    S5 FSI engines doomed due to intake manifold carbon build-up ? CONCERN
    Audi A5 3.2 v6 FSI - carbon issues? CONCERN EXTERNAL
    Carbon Build up at 35K PICS

    A6 3.2:
    Carbon buildup CEL TSB Update EXPERIENCE EXTERNAL

    RS4:
    RS4: Intake Manifold Carbon Build-Up & Clean Up PICS
    RS4: ** PART 2 ** Intake Manifold Carbon Build-Up & Clean U PICS
    RS4 only 263whp flat from 6k rpm ?!?! PICS
    Sea Foam useage? CONCERN
    Cost to Clean Carbon? CONCERN
    My RS4 under the knife... PICS
    Fuel adatives.... PICS EXTERNAL
    RS4 owners READ this! CONCERN
    RS4 Owners Step in. What I feel to be very important. It's a long read. CONCERN
    Need help, RS4 in shop for MILs, how does valve cleaning get authorized? CONCERN
    Dyno after port, polish, manifold flap removal PICS EXTERNAL
    Dyno info for the day... PICS EXTERNAL
    ***** Official Carbon Build-Up Thread ***** POLL
    Carbon Build-up 101? CONCERN
    KryptoniK's RS4 PES S/C Build PICS
    2008 RS4 Carbon buildup EXPERIENCE EXTERNAL
    FSI Engines - Audi RS4 Engine Oil-Related Deposits PICS EXTERNAL
    RS4 B7 Carbon Buildup CONCERN EXTERNAL
    Update on carbon cleaning.... EXPERIENCE EXTERNAL
    My RS4 Carbon Build-up Story PICS
    RS4 Supercharger Project Has Started Pics PICS
    RS4 carbon cleaning finished !!!!!!! EXPERIENCE PICS
    RS4 Piston Damage from Carbon Build-up PICS
    RS4 : to prevent carbon build up, i think this product will work. CONCERN
    RS4 inspected by AOA for CB EXPERIENCE
    my RS4 needs help CONCERN
    Throwin' Codes at 9900 miles - 2008 RS4 EXPERIENCE
    Thinking of buying an RSs4. Does it have carbon problems CONCERN
    B6 S4 paid off... 20K to put down on used Rs4 with lower miles.. Cant do it! CONCERN
    My RS4 dyno numbers... PICS

    R8 4.2:
    FSI Carbon Buildup CONCERN

    TT Mk2:
    carbon buildup problem with TFSI - serious worry CONCERN EXTERNAL

    You can PM me any additions you have to keep the thread clean if you like..


    How Direct Injection (FSI) Works
    I was sent the following videos that do an excellent job of describing how direct injection works. They're mostly technology promo shorts that completely ignore the downside of build-up but still good overviews. For the non-tech inclined, the difference between what these videos describe and "standard" port injection is that in port injection, fuel enters the through the intake valves giving a cleansing effect to any build-up (from the exhaust recirculation) that may be there. Thanks to Andyuk911 for these links!

    Bosche Promo (for the same management unit found in the RS4)
    ASNU (injector diagnostic manufacturer)
    GM Promo

    Problem Synopsis
    The general consensus is that the build-up that forms under normal operation can decrease engine power within a relatively low amount of milage. Most anecdotal evidence shows that when the intake valves are cleaned, engine returns to spec-rated horsepower and torque. This build-up is thought to affect power in as little as 10,000 miles though few people have routinely removed their intake manifolds to document the build-up progress.

    Variables
    A wide-range of variables have been included in reports of build-up. A common theme is that this occurs despite tier 1 fuel and Audi recommended oils. Reports have also come in from all over the world, suggesting it's not localized to any particular region's fuel, environment or emission standards.

    Indicators
    Severe cases of build-up can potentially trip misfire CEL codes though in most cases, the car simply produces less power and does not indicate malfunction. Those that have cleaned their intake manifolds explain a burst of acceleration under WOT at 6k RPMs (2nd gear)(applies to RS4/R8 4.2). Dyno results for affected cars seem to be anywhere up to 40hp below quoted stock HP on the 4.2 V8 FSI engine.

    Solutions
    To remove build-up, only a manual physical cleaning of the intake valves and vanes has shown to be able to completely remove the carbon of which Audi will not warrant unless there are continual misfires occuring. To prevent the issue from reoccurring, oil catch cans are the most frequently raised potential solution in addition to methanol injection. At least one thread has cited both of these systems were in-use and build-up still occurred.

    There are a number of temporary cleaning solutions that are available. The effectiveness of these has not been discussed. Some of these include: BG 44k and Direct Injection Power 3. Audi's solution is a fuel additive to clean the injector ports, though this has been shown to have little to no effect on carbon build-up on the intake valves.

    Audi has not yet acknowledged the extent of the carbon build-up problem. There is a letter that has been created by a forum member to Audi in this thread:

    Official Letter to Audi of America Executive Vice President...Thoughts?
    Last edited by MrPerfect; 07-02-2010 at 11:54 AM. Reason: added zzzzzeke's RS4 thread
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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Three Rings ahhhudi's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    This was much needed. Thank you.

    I would imagine they are having issues also in the new A6... but maybe not enough people on the zine with that model A6 to bring up the problem.
    Last edited by ahhhudi; 01-06-2010 at 12:34 PM.
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  3. #3
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    I have an A5 with the 3.2. I assume that engine is affected like the others.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings Ryan_T's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    Very good. Thanks.
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  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings NWS4Guy's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    Very nice compilation, thanks for getting this all together in one place!

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings RS4POWER's Avatar
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    *OFFICIAL FSI Carbon Build-Up Database*

    I am requesting that this thread becomes a sticky.

    More and more members that own or are looking to own (T)FSI cars are concerned with carbon build up and its effects.

    If anyone has been through this ordeal and has photos or any info related carbon build up, this is the place to post such.

    You can also post if you have done something which has minimized or even eliminated CB.

    Those that have already had their intake manifold removed and discovered CB should post the following:

    Vehicle Make/Model.
    Location: What state/country the car was driven primarily.
    Mileage/Date in which CB was discovered.
    Oil used.
    Oil Change Interval.
    Fuel Used.
    How short/long are your trips on average.


    Before I post my info, this is how VW/Audi feels about it:

    VW patent acknowledging the intake valve deposit issue

    Directly from the technical staff of VAG is complete acknowledgment of the FSI intake valve deposit issue, and it's impacts, including: decreased performance, misfires, catalytic converter damage ... etc.


    "Gasoline engines with direct injection of the fuel into the combustion chamber, i.e., not into the intake port, suffer especially from the problem of the formation of carbon deposits on components. Carbon deposits form especially in the neck region of intake valves. A more exact analysis of how these carbon deposits form leads to the following result: Oil and fuel constituents first form a sticky coating on the components. These constituents are chiefly long-chain and branched-chain hydrocarbons, i.e., the low-volatility components of oil and fuel. Aromatic compounds adhere especially well. This sticky base coating serves as a base for the deposition of soot particles. This results in a porous surface, in which oil and fuel particles in turn become embedded. This process is a circular process, by which the coating thickness of the carbon deposits continuously increases. Especially in the area of the intake valves, the deposits originate from blowby gases and from internal and external exhaust gas recirculation, and in this process, the blowby gasses and the recirculated exhaust gas come into direct contact with the intake valve."

    "Especially in the area of the neck of the intake valves, excessive carbon deposits have extremely negative effects for the following reasons: In the case of Otto direct injectors, the successful ignition of the stratified charge depends to a great extent on the correct development of the internal cylinder flow, which ensures reliable transport of the injected fuel to the spark plug to guarantee reliable ignition at the spark plug. However, a coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may interfere so strongly with the tumble flow that ignition failures may occur there as a result. Under certain circumstances, however, ignition failures can lead to irreversible damage of a catalytic converter installed in the exhaust gas tract for purifying the exhaust gas. Furthermore, the coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve causes flow resistance, which can lead to significant performance losses due to insufficient cylinder filling, especially in the upper load and speed range of the internal combustion engine. In addition, the carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may prevent correct valve closing, which leads to compression losses and thus sporadic ignition failures. This in turn could irreversibly damage the catalytic converter. There is the potential for small particles to break away from the coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve and get into the catalytic converter. These hot particles may then cause secondary reaction and corresponding local damage of the catalytic converter. For example, a hole may be burned in the structure of the catalytic converter."

    "Globular deposits are found especially on the valve stem downstream from a partition plate in the intake port. Due to the dripping of high-boiling hydrocarbons from the partition plate towards the valve neck or valve stem, globular carbon deposits eventually form there by the sequence of events explained above. These deposits on the valve stem can result in flow deficits due to undesired swirling and turbulent flow around the globular carbon deposits. This may persistently interfere with the formation of stable tumble flow from cycle to cycle."

    "A possible solution would be to keep these sources of deposits away, for example, from the intake valve, by completely eliminating exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port. However with the combustion behavior of modern reciprocating internal combustion engines, at least external exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port are absolutely necessary for reasons of emission control and fuel consumption, so that this approach is not possible. "

    __________________________________________________ ______________
    Vehicle Make/Model: 2007 Audi RS4
    Location: Delaware, USA
    Mileage: 54k on 8/7/09
    Oil used: Castrol provided by dealer
    OCI: 5k
    Fuel: 95%-Shell V-Power 93, 5%-Sunoco/Mobil
    Avg trip weekday: 15miles. Weekend: 200 miles.

    Notes:
    Car started feeling sluggish at 25k miles.
    Oil had to be topped off about twice per interval.
    BG treatment applied at ~32k. No improvement in performance.
    3 CEL's for misfires up to 54k.
    CEL + EPC at 54k which prompted IM removal and CB discovery.

    If anyone has any ideas on how to improve this database let me know and I will update the original post.

    Photos:





    And here is the link to my thread for more about my experience:

    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...65#post3967865

    I hope everyone find this helpful. Post up!
    Last edited by RS4POWER; 01-07-2010 at 02:40 AM.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    VTA catch can eliminates the problem 100%, but it smells and is illegal.

    Recirc catch can u'll still have build up, but wont be as bad.

    There was a VW patent out a while back saying 20 mins of driving at 3k rpm burns it off.. i doubt it though, it will burn some off but not all.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Three Rings frrg's Avatar
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    Re: *OFFICIAL FSI Carbon Build-Up Database*

    Vehicle Make/Model. 2008 RS4
    Location: California
    Mileage in which CB was discovered. 67k
    Oil used. Redline Oil/Castrol provided by dealer
    Oil Change Interval. 3500-5000K
    Fuel Used. 80% Shell 91-20%Sunoco/Mobil
    Average Trip daily 120miles (90% freeway/10%city-Est. 35-40k annual)

    Notes:
    Car started to feel a bit sluggish at times after September (summer). Random EPC lights, but would dissapear after restarting. Misfires on cylinder 1-3-8 started early December '09. Cold starts got very bad/rough idle. Multiple CEL's with DBW & misfires faults.






    Last edited by frrg; 01-11-2010 at 11:46 PM.
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  9. #9
    Registered Member Two Rings mickf29's Avatar
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    Re: *OFFICIAL FSI Carbon Build-Up Database*

    Vehicle Make/Model. Audi RS4
    Location: Pacific Northwest (Oregon, Washington primarily)
    Mileage/Date in which CB was discovered. 18k miles, fixed at 24k at my expense, intermittent CEL's would not get them to fix. Down 30+hp on dyno, loss of top end.
    Oil used. Castrol primarily, tried Royal Purple, tried Mobil 1
    Oil Change Interval. every 3-4k miles
    Fuel Used. Shell V-Power 92 octane
    How short/long are your trips on average. Work week: 30 miles each way, loads of trip to Seattle and Portland on average 250 miles a shot.


    I am somewhat understanding of Audi on this issue, if it wasn't for the strict emissions controls this may be easily solved. However what really irks me is that they know this is an issue, they still make us all suffer through their process to get it fixed. Make us run fuel injector cleaners, make us have constant CEL's. I had CEL's and very rough starts when it got cold for a few months, tried to get the dealers to take a look at it, but they would just say they can't fix unless I have a long term CEL. I finally got tired of the rough starts, took it to an external shop to pull the intake manifold off and get pictures. Paid them for the service, took pictures of all the muck in there, and took it to Audi. The dealer response was "sorry, even though we see it there, its not the worst we have seen, and because your CEL's are intermittent, we won't do anything for you. I couldn't believe this after having owned 3 Audi's from this dealer, and taking my mom in to get an Audi, and steering a good friend to a new TT over a Solstice. They couldn't see fit to save me $700 and do the job for me under warranty? Total bull. After that, I am ready and willing to lend my experience to any lawsuit.

    Pics of mine:


    Last edited by mickf29; 01-07-2010 at 10:43 AM.

  10. #10
    Forum Moderator Four Rings SoCalS4Avant's Avatar
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    Re: *OFFICIAL FSI Carbon Build-Up Database*

    Hey guys, I'm going to merge this thread with the thread (Carbon Build-up Megathread)that has been stickied on the FSI Carbon Build-up in the Drivetrain Forum.
    Dan - Moderator/Wiseguy

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  11. #11
    Account Terminated Four Rings
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    sadly, it'll die a slow death there (here I guess...it's already here).

    It would be nice if it could be sticked in each of the forums where it's relevant.

    Is there a way to have the thread show up at the top of all the pages with the other stickies, but when someone posts to it, have it update across the board, no matter what forum they were originally in?

    That'd be ideal because these subforums frankly don't see the traffic.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings iconoclast's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread


  13. #13
    Established Member Two Rings RS Maniac's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    I vote for this to be a sticky too, clearly an important issue plaguing the FSI platform!
    __________________
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  14. #14
    Veteran Member Three Rings frrg's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    This thread needs to become very sticky, kind of like the CB these owners are having. I know it sounds cheesy Otherwise this thread will get lost
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  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings MrPerfect's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    Guys, this thread IS sticky. Now I just wish it were possible to get it in every FSI model forum. But I'll settle with this.

    Edit: Anthony agreed! There is a locked sticky post in each subforum with FSI engine that I'll try to keep synced with this main thread.
    Last edited by MrPerfect; 01-16-2010 at 09:33 AM.
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  16. #16
    Account Terminated Four Rings
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPerfect View Post
    Guys, this thread IS sticky. Now I just wish it were possible to get it in every FSI model forum. But I'll settle with this.
    yeah...but a sticky in the drivetrain forum is like being a sticky in Siberia..nobody comes through here (relatively speaking)

    i.e today is Jan 8th...the thread has 16 posts and 880 views (entirely from it's time in the B6/7 S4/RS4 forum). Now that it has been moved here, and won't show up at all in S4/RS4 (the moved thing vanishes after a day I believe), you'll see what I mean. I'll check in 2 days later for fun.

    what it needs to be is stickied in each forum, all linking back to one location so that all posts automatically go to the one main thread.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings cory_can's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    is there any consensus on what type of driving is more likely to cause (or delay) this build-up?

    Start/Stop city driving, constant RPM highway driving, being a pussy with the "Go" pedal ....etc. etc.

    Or does the type of driving have no impact whatsoever?
    Show, Goooo! and low*

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  18. #18
    Veteran Member Three Rings Coker Rat's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    It might be possible for a lab to do chemical analysis testing on the residue. That might be the most direct way to the answer. I work for a large petroleum company that, if they ever had an issue like this in process piping, would not hesitate to find the chemical makeup of the residue in question before even considering a solution.

    I don't know who would do it or how much it might cost though...

    edit: maybe these guys http://www.semlab.com/

    Edit2: never mind i guess i should read the thread...
    A more exact analysis of how these carbon deposits form leads to the following result: Oil and fuel constituents first form a sticky coating on the components. These constituents are chiefly long-chain and branched-chain hydrocarbons, i.e., the low-volatility components of oil and fuel. Aromatic compounds adhere especially well. This sticky base coating serves as a base for the deposition of soot particles. This results in a porous surface, in which oil and fuel particles in turn become embedded. This process is a circular process, by which the coating thickness of the carbon deposits continuously increases. Especially in the area of the intake valves, the deposits originate from blowby gases and from internal and external exhaust gas recirculation, and in this process, the blowby gasses and the recirculated exhaust gas come into direct contact with the intake valve.
    Last edited by Coker Rat; 01-11-2010 at 07:21 PM.
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Three Rings Coker Rat's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    Quote Originally Posted by cory_can View Post
    Or does the type of driving have no impact whatsoever?
    I would estimate that the only correlation between driving style and the buildup is that it is clearly caused by the combustion process in these motors. Therefore it could be said that the more you 'combust', the more you will have built up. As gas consumption (combustion) is not directly connected with mileage, you may not find a direct correlation between amount of buildup and mileage.
    Last edited by Coker Rat; 01-11-2010 at 07:17 PM.
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  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings doctorheine's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    I would imagine the harder you drive the more likely hydrocarbons and aromatic particles will adhere to the neck of the intake valves.
    SO IN THEORY...
    Maybe the porous metal on the stock internals is a more suitable environment for hydrocarbons to acumulate.... does anybody have polished internals?? Is there still CB happening then?

    What about a non stick solution like tfal or oil resistant coating work on the areas affected >?

    Im pretty sure there are alot of theory's but what is most important is we get the attention needed on this topic. At the end audi is going to end up hurting themselves when they steal horsepower from consumers... nobody likes to lose horses from the stables.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Two Rings notjoefromnh's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    I smell class action lawsuit
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  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings iconoclast's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    in that case i smell lawyers gettin' rich and aoa and the end user both getting screwed... a recall or 'extended warranty' would be better than class action.

  23. #23
    Active Member One Ring
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    Here’s another data point. This is my first post and unfortunately it doesn’t have anything good to report…

    Vehicle Make/Model: 2008 Audi A4 3.2L
    Location: Seattle, Washington
    Mileage/Date: 11,990 miles / 30 November 2009
    Oil used: Unknown. Dealer Supplied
    Oil Change Interval: Average every 2850 miles*
    Fuel Used: Chevron Supreme Techron (91/92 octane) or Shell V-Power (91/92 octane)
    How short/long are your trips on average: 6 to 30 miles

    Reported rough idle when cold to the dealer. CEL was on. Did not notice any loss of power.

    Dealer invoice states:

    “Verified Customer Concern. Hooked up scan tool, found five random engine faults. P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, and P0304 (random cylinder misfire, cylinder misfire 1-4). Followed TSB 2019948/3, added fuel additive and road tested vehicle for 60 miles sustaining high engine RPM. Allowed vehicle to sit for several hours to repeat cold start up. Hooked up scan tool and cold started vehicle, MVB 14 registered 8 faults (4 in cylinder 1, 2 in cylinder 2, and 2 in cylinder 3). Will open TAC ticket. --- (Tech 2751) opened TAC ticket. They said to check camshaft adjustment. Performed check through MVBS 90-96 and they are fine, there are no sticking adjusters. Removed intake manifold and found carbon build up on back of valves. TAC said to perform cleaning as stated in the TSB. Cleaned valves, removed spark plugs, blew out carbon chunks. Reassembled and test drove. Let sit outside overnight and started cold. There was no misfire on any cylinder. Performed oil service per TSB. Closed TAC ticket. Done.”

    Note:
    Vehicle purchased new with 49 miles / 27 September 2008
    Engine (short block) replaced for cylinder wall scoring 6521 miles / 14 April 2009
    *Oil change interval shorted by engine replacement
    Drove the car from Seattle to San Francisco and back. It currently has over 15,000 miles on it and its starting to run rough when cold again. Thank goodness for warranty!

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings MrPerfect's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    Thanks for your post BEM3, I added your separate thread to the index as well in case there is some good conversation striked up there.
    Tons of Audis, Tons of Mustangs. That's just how I am.

  25. #25
    Established Member Two Rings TehDolphin3.2's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    Another one to report.

    Vehicle Make/Model: 2008 A4 3.2 Quattro
    Location: NY
    Mileage: 21,000 mikes
    Oil used: Castrol Syntec: 5w-40
    Oil Change Interval: 5000
    Fuel Used: Mobil or Citgo 93 octane
    How short/long are your trips on average: 72 mile commute to work each way, 10k miles on car in about 4 months.

    Brought the car into the dealer on Friday for a CEL. CEL had been coming on and off for a few weeks, it would stay on a day or two then go away...then back on a few days later. Every time I made an appointment for service, the light would go off and Audi told me the code was cleared if there was no active CEL.
    This time the CEL stayed on about a week and a half. My invoice stated I had a cylinder 1 misfire which happened on 1 occasion. Dealer stated they could do a BG cleaning service for $170 which wasn't covered under warranty. I told him about the CEL's coming on and off, dealer told me it was common and most likely cause was the carbon build up on the valves. Dealer reset the computer this time around, I'll report back if I get another CEL.
    2013 S4 Premium+ S Tronic - Monsoon Gray - Black/Lunar Silver Alcantara - Alu Kreuz - H&R OE Springs - BBS CH-R - Injen Intake

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings iconoclast's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread


  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings DavidB8's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    Sorry if this is already posted. Looks like Audi has a specific tool to adress carbon on the intake. just a sand blaster type tool but they list it for carbon

    http://buy.equipmentsolutions.com/eq...ail.aspx?Type=
    Reaching Me:Please don't ask me questions on the forum or send me private messages as it may be a while before I respond.
    If you need something email me directly at David@audienthusiasts.com I don't frequent this forum very often.
    www.audienthusiasts.com

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings iconoclast's Avatar
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    Re: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

    you need a user id and pw... so what will stop it from re-occuring? cleaning it out is one thing, preventing it is another.

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings MrPerfect's Avatar
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    I had seen in a post that Audi doesn't even use this any more to clean carbon. Though I have no idea what they're using instead if they have stopped using walnut shell blasting.
    Tons of Audis, Tons of Mustangs. That's just how I am.

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Three Rings NoTec's Avatar
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  31. #31
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    edmunds long term car is the s5. someone (maybe a bunch of forum members) should email them and maybe they would look into this and make the concern more publicly known.

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings iconoclast's Avatar
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    Letter directly from AOA regarding the issue, basically saying it is user error and not their problem... i asked in a follow up email if this would be covered under warranty or cpo and they never responded...


    Thank you for contacting Audi of America regarding your questions about carbon build-up. I was delighted to read that you are a long-time Audi owner and enthusiast. Your loyalty to the brand is certainly appreciated. Please accept this written response.

    You did not mention, in your e-mail, the nature of the concerns you have been experiencing with the Fuel Straight Injection (FSI) system of your Audi. I am uncertain if these concerns are related to carbon build up and will therefore restrict my answers to the results of my research in regard to your inquiry. I can tell you that carbon is a naturally occurring byproduct in all combustion engines. It looks like a thin coat of black soot similar to what you might find in the flue of a chimney. There are many things, such as contaminants found in lower grade gasoline, floating rust or debris from fuel distributors or retailers’ storage tanks, oil leaks, and short trip driving that can lead to carbon build-up in your engine. The excessive build-up can lead to decreased fuel mileage, excessive emissions, hesitation, lack of power, stalling and poor acceleration because the carbon build-up on the vehicle’s sensors does not allow the computer to properly control the air/fuel mixture and can lead to even further carbon build-up.

    All gasoline grades contain substances that can cause deposits to collect on vital engine parts, such as fuel injectors and intake valves. Most gasoline brands include additives to keep engine and fuel systems clean, but they are not all equally effective. As a result, accumulated carbon deposits may adversely affect an engine and prevent peak performance from being achieved. Fuel supplies vary from region to region and therefore the majority of people might never be faced with the same concern since their fuel supplies are different.

    With that understanding, it is not unheard of for dealerships in particular regions to identify specific concerns that might require supplemental maintenance services within their area of the country. An example of this would be cleaning fuel injectors due to carbon build-up caused by additives found in gasoline on either a regional or seasonal basis as you indicated was recently done by your authorized Audi dealer. The cleaning is a relatively simple process. Chemicals can be flushed through the fuel system that dislodge and clean out the carbon. Some parts may have to be removed and cleaned manually, or in extreme cases, replaced entirely. Additionally, proper vehicle maintenance throughout a vehicle's service life is also a key ingredient to overall performance of your Audi. The Audi service schedule does not include yearly fuel system cleanings. This type of service would be considered maintenance related since there was not a part replacement necessary due to a manufacturer shortcoming limiting or reducing functionality and therefore is the responsibility of the owner of the vehicle.

    In regard to Top Tier Gasoline, I would encourage you to review http://www.toptiergas.com/ for additional information related to the issues that we discussed, what Top Tier Gasoline will do to help those concerns, and retailers where you can obtain these Audi endorsed fuels.

  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings spa's Avatar
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    adding this to my watched thread list.. great thread, it is time Audi takes notice.

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings iconoclast's Avatar
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    i sent to them this thread and threads from other boards... pointed out that it was not model/engine specific nor user error... the underlything theme or the only common thing across the board is that each engine is an FSI engine... they feel its user error and nothing on their end. unfortunately at this time it seems like they will only step up to the plate on a case by case basis...

  35. #35
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Re: *OFFICIAL FSI Carbon Build-Up Database*

    Re: *OFFICIAL FSI Carbon Build-Up Database*

    Vehicle Make/Model. 2009 A4 2.0T
    Location: Washington, DC
    Mileage in which CB was discovered. 15,450
    Oil used. oil provided by dealer
    Oil Change Interval. at regular service intervals
    Fuel Used. 100% Shell V-Power
    Average Trip daily 30miles

    Notes:
    Car started feeling sluggish. Engine would stutter while idling at stoplights and after starting. Engine would have a put put put put put sound occasionally after starting. Took it to the dealer 3 times, first time they said a software update would fix it, second time they added a fuel injection cleaner to the gas, third time they actually found all the carbon buildup. Here are the dealer notes on the last service:



    C/S CHECK ENGINE LIGHT CAME ON WITH NOTICEABLE DETERIORATION IN PERFORMANCE. PERFORMED GFF. FOUND SPORADIC MISFIRE ON ALL CYLINDERS. REMOVED INTAKE MANIFOLD TO INSPECT INTAKE VALVES. FOUND INTAKE VALVES CARBONED UP. CLEANED INTAKE VALVES AND REPLACED NUMBER 3 AND 4 FUEL INJECTOR. FUEL INJECTOR PARTIALLY CLOGGED. INSTALLED INTAKE MANIFOLD AND PERFORMED BASIC SETTING FOR INTAKE RUNNER FLAP AND THROTTLE BODY. ROAD TESTED VEHICLE FOR SIX MILES.



    Apparently the dealer had an argument with Audi HQ about a '09 with this low mileage having the carbon buildup problem. Audi HQ refused to believe it could be the problem but the dealer went on their own to check the carbon buildup. The dealer took pictures and sent back to Audi HQ as proof.

  36. #36
    Veteran Member Four Rings iconoclast's Avatar
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    what was the end result?

  37. #37
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
    what was the end result?
    Sorry, should have included that the car is running great now, but I am fairly certian that I will be back in another 15,000 miles to have the carbon cleaned out again. The dealer didn't say what, if anything, Audi HQ plans to do about the issue. But I am keeping every single gas receipt and marking milage at each fillup for next time.

  38. #38
    Veteran Member Four Rings iconoclast's Avatar
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    painful way to go through life.

  39. #39
    Active Member One Ring
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    I am in market for 2010 A4. All of this talk about the excessive carbon buildup and resulting performance loss has spooked me a bit. I heard the PCV on 2010 A4 2.0T was redesigned to prevent the issues with carbon buildup on valve intakes and that it is indeed different than 2009 setup. Is it BS or have any of you heard the same thing? You can really find the REAL story in these forums sometimes. I appreciate your help.

  40. #40
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowdy7 View Post
    I am in market for 2010 A4. All of this talk about the excessive carbon buildup and resulting performance loss has spooked me a bit. I heard the PCV on 2010 A4 2.0T was redesigned to prevent the issues with carbon buildup on valve intakes and that it is indeed different than 2009 setup. Is it BS or have any of you heard the same thing? You can really find the REAL story in these forums sometimes. I appreciate your help.
    I too am now wearry of purchasing a 2010 A4 or S4. I wonder if other DI engines suffer this same problem, like the BMW 335i or the 2009 WRX.

    It sounds like you would need to completely remove both the CCV (Close Crankcase Ventelation) system and the EGR system to make any significant improvments. Going OCV, with a catch can would be easier than removing the EGR system.

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