RS4: -- PART 2 -- Intake Manifold Carbon Build-Up & Clean U

[jalas]

Well since the first thread is huge I decided to create a new one to track progress.

The car is finally back together and just performing an oil change at 1:45am!! I can't believe how many damn screws hold the under tray in place. I am going to dremel out a hole in the tray so that I can quickly make oil changes.

With silverRS4s permission I am posting up some pics of his great work. Very happy with the visual results.

Tomorrow I'll get to see the true performance of the car. My experience has always been with the build up since I bought the car used with 38,000 miles from Audi Nashville. A new DRC suspension and clean motor and I'm set.

FYI, I am changing oil to Pennzoil 5w-40 Euro blend from the oilstore.com. I plan on changing it every 3000 miles and hopefully this will help the oil break down that could also be happening. A catch can will also be a priority for me as well.

Ported and Polished Manifold:
One thing to notice in the pics are that the trumpets are actually inserted in vs cast. This was something new that silverRS4 had not seen before. My car is an early production number.








Clean Intake Valves









One of the vanes before being cleaned. The build up is quite a bit as can be seen by the pics.

[NoTec]

Awesome manifold port job and nice, clean, healthy valves. I wish you many smiles on that first test drive.

[RS4bro]

Looks vry nice!!!!! Congrats to you and the great work done by silverRS4.

You've GOTTA to let us know how the ride is now....

[duud40]

Could`ve polished them a bit better tim :) . The heads look awful. I see some porting work to the cyl heads soon.

[EBG 18T]

what did you use to clean the valves with?

[ALWAYS4UDI]

My experience has always been with the build up since I bought the car used with 38,000 miles from Audi Nashville.

one of the sickest dealership buildings i've ever seen.

[mbgt72]

Quite impressive and thanks for the pics! Can't wait to hear back about the difference and more about the process involved.

[RS4POWER]

I wish I could see the shock/smiles on your face the first time you take her out.

Enjoy the car the way it was meant to be!

[sakimano]

do you have baseline info to do a before after?

i.e. timed runs? 1/4 mile? pull with another car? dyno?

would be nice to show demonstrable, quantifiable gains for people who try to derail this discussion in the future by insisting that carbon is 'no problem'

[jalas]

WOW!!!!

I just fired up. Lots of white smoke due to the Seafoam product, which was of no concern to me since I know this is what happens when injected in the intake manifold. Let the car warm up, shut her down and checked the oil. All was good no leaks and added a fraction of oil to top it off.

So I have only done an "installation lap" around my neighborhood and on the frontage road. Was ~4 miles total and I can honestly say without any doubt the car is fast! I have only known the car from 38,000 miles until now a little over 40k and have never experienced the engine's true potential. I got home and my wife opened the garage door and said "Your smiling!".

Wow. The car revs so much faster and hit the rev limiter in first very easily and not intentionally. This goes beyond any placebo effect. After the entire discussion we have had this week there is ZERO doubt in my mind that carbon build up needs to be mitigated on these engines.

I plan on taking some VAG COM measurements soon with little mileage on the clean engine. It is a bit rainy here now so stay tuned!

[jalas]

do you have baseline info to do a before after?

i.e. timed runs? 1/4 mile? pull with another car? dyno?

would be nice to show demonstrable, quantifiable gains for people who try to derail this discussion in the future by insisting that carbon is 'no problem'

No I don't. I really really should have! This was my mistake and was just eager to look at the car for any carbon build up problems. I can only say that my experience with the car is limited about 1500 miles (baseline of 38k) and it is NOT the same car anymore.

I have tracked against other NSX vehicles on our local track and the car did very well. I am anxious to get back out there again soon.

From here on out my plan is to monitor the engine through VAG-COM data and frequent oil changes to mitigate this. Will also be researching an OCC.

[jalas]

one of the sickest dealership buildings i've ever seen.

It is quite a nice dealer ship. Very friendly as well.

[jalas]

what did you use to clean the valves with?

I used the Seafoam product and nylon brushes from a gun cleaning kit. It took 2-3 hours per valve port. I have spent ~30 hours on this project.

Changing the oil took about an hour because of the dozen bolts holding the under tray.

[RS4POWER]

Told ya!

That is exactly how a new RS4 feels like. You hit the rev limiter effortlessly. If you gun it out of a turn you will break the car loose (esp off). A lot of speed on tap at any gear and any mph.

Now this can get addicting and you'll find yourself wanting to build on it. How about improving the exhaust flow? Anything else in mind?

[NoTec]

Good deal!

[FarmerBob]

Really happy for you Jalas. Let us know how you do against those NSX's!

[silverRS4]

Great to hear Jose! The job is a pretty intense DIY, so to get it done and post pics along the way is very kind of you. The high-RPM character of your RS4 is now what its supposed to be like. High levels of retardation from CB just kills the power and response above 6k. Do you have a source for 93 octane?

[McGyver]

Excellent report and even better result. 'Grats!

[Elberoth]

Can you post a small 'how to' for ppl who want to use Seafoam product and clean the intake themselves ?

[ngng]

i need somebody to P&P my VF intake manifold

[SpeedETC]

Glad to hear the car is running better!! Excellent job!!

[NoTec]

i need somebody to P&P my VF intake manifold

LOL. Get your heads done. Should yield good power with that s/c.

[mattlqx]

So this beg some a good questions. What happens when your valves get gunked again? How long do you expect to get before starting to notice power loss? Plan on doing regular inspections of the valves? Plan on cleaning them again when when they do get gunked again?

[jalas]

So this beg some a good questions. What happens when your valves get gunked again? How long do you expect to get before starting to notice power loss? Plan on doing regular inspections of the valves? Plan on cleaning them again when when they do get gunked again?

All good questions, which I have wondered myself actually.

- When my valves get gunked up again I'll clean them.
- I expect about 15k miles or so between cleanings.
- Next December I plan on taking the manifold off again and check.

My plan between now and then is.
- Change the oil every 3k with Pennzoil 5w-40 Euro blend from the oilstore.com
- Once a month try using the BG cleaner products or maybe a way to run Seafoam through the intake more often. Seafoam would be cheaper and I could run it once a week
- Continue to use 93 Shell gas
- Oil Catch Can. Try to figure this out in the next two weeks while the car is still clean.
- Monitor through VAG COM engine retardation. Summer months is pretty hot here so this will be interesting.

I'm open to ideas.

-Jose

[jalas]

Great to hear Jose! The job is a pretty intense DIY, so to get it done and post pics along the way is very kind of you. The high-RPM character of your RS4 is now what its supposed to be like. High levels of retardation from CB just kills the power and response above 6k. Do you have a source for 93 octane?

It is really intense!!! I did not full realize the length of time required. My wife was very accommodating during this entire adventure.

We have 87, 89 and 93 octane available here. Will be sticking with 93 Shell going forward only.

Let me know if you move forward on the OCC. There is a demand!!

FYI, I guess I can add Silver Speed modification to my signature.

[jalas]

Can you post a small 'how to' for ppl who want to use Seafoam product and clean the intake themselves ?

I might just do that. silverRS4 provided me some good details along the way. If you PM me I can tell you what you need to do. For the port and polish use either silverRS4 or more local to you duud40.

Jose

[jalas]

Told ya!

That is exactly how a new RS4 feels like. You hit the rev limiter effortlessly. If you gun it out of a turn you will break the car loose (esp off). A lot of speed on tap at any gear and any mph.

Now this can get addicting and you'll find yourself wanting to build on it. How about improving the exhaust flow? Anything else in mind?

I'm very happy!

I can get pretty nutty on the modifications so I am trying to limit myself. Example: NSX

With that said next on the list:
- Window tint tomorrow
- APR tune (maybe this week)
- ECS Tuning H-pipe kit

Jose

[jalas]

what did you use to clean the valves with?

Seafoam. Used 6x 7ounce bottles.

[91gl]

this carbon build up is really the only thing that would turn me off into buying an rs4 later down the road. is there anyway to get around this?

[RS4POWER]

this carbon build up is really the only thing that would turn me off into buying an rs4 later down the road. is there anyway to get around this?

Aren't you supposed to be in a c63 by now?

We will know more on this issue after this upcoming summer. Some will install occ and report back. I will run 96 octane at above 30F to keep retard levels down. Supposedly Audi is aware and has something in the works also. Even if I had to clean mine once a year it is still worth it.

Happy New Year Mitso!

[pcmoore]

What is involved in removing the intake manifold anyway? Last time I took a quick look it didn't seem to be too involved, but it was a quick look. Anything other than the manifold itself that needs to be disconnected and/or relocated?

[91gl]

Aren't you supposed to be in a c63 by now?

We will know more on this issue after this upcoming summer. Some will install occ and report back. I will run 96 octane at above 30F to keep retard levels down. Supposedly Audi is aware and has something in the works also. Even if I had to clean mine once a year it is still worth it.

Happy New Year Mitso!

Hahaha, Happy New Year! ended up keeping my car because the c63 proved just too expensive for me. maybe down the road (year or two) ill find a nice low mileage rs4 and keep my b6 too.

would a catch can really solve this problem or would it just lessen it?

[jalas]

Decided to take a drive during lunch with a little toll road action to mix things up. Let me clearly state that this car is no longer the same.

It accelerates into triple digits so much quicker then before. Makes the time, hand cuts and frustration all well worth it.

Simply amazed!!!

[frrg]

Seafoam. Used 6x 7ounce bottles.

Congrats to you , sir.....Now go and enjoy your RS for all it's cracked up to be; one of the finest cars on the road


So you used 6 cans.....Holly Cow....I'm cleaning mine right now and I only got 3 cans....I see a trip to autozone in my future

[jalas]

Congrats to you , sir.....Now go and enjoy your RS for all it's cracked up to be; one of the finest cars on the road


So you used 6 cans.....Holly Cow....I'm cleaning mine right now and I only got 3 cans....I see a trip to autozone in my future

I thought it would take 2, then went back again for another 2 and finally again for another 2.

I filled mine up to the top and let them soak for at least 1 hour. I would suck the Seafoam out with a Shop Vac, scrub the walls and around the valves and fill it up again for another hour. That helped soften the layers of CB.

Have any pics?

[jalas]

What is involved in removing the intake manifold anyway? Last time I took a quick look it didn't seem to be too involved, but it was a quick look. Anything other than the manifold itself that needs to be disconnected and/or relocated?

The bulk of the work is removing the supporting hardware.
- HP fuel lines,
- PCV hoses
- disconnecting the Audi catch can. This takes time since the bolts are hard to get to. Be careful not to drop a bolt.
- disconnecting the wire harness at the front of the engine under the intake manifold
- removing the intake manifold is not super easy since you have to be careful with the HP fuel lines. Don't want to bend them too much.

What I found was difficult was putting the manifold back on around the HP fuel lines. Takes two people in my mind to help guide the manifold around the HP fuel lines. Also helps to remove the left bank HPFP.

Finally patience and 4-8 hours depending on your mechanical ability times 2.

[NoTec]

The bulk of the work is removing the supporting hardware.
- HP fuel lines,
- PCV hoses
- disconnecting the Audi catch can. This takes time since the bolts are hard to get to. Be careful not to drop a bolt.
- disconnecting the wire harness at the front of the engine under the intake manifold
- removing the intake manifold is not super easy since you have to be careful with the HP fuel lines. Don't want to bend them too much.

What I found was difficult was putting the manifold back on around the HP fuel lines. Takes two people in my mind to help guide the manifold around the HP fuel lines. Also helps to remove the left bank HPFP.

Finally patience and 4-8 hours depending on your mechanical ability times 2.

How heavy would you estimate that manifold to be? I wish the aftermarket support was available for this vehicle like the M-cars. I know they use ITBs, but they have aftermarket plenum options made from carbon fiber. I'm sure the increased sound from the engine would be magnificent if such an option were to become available for the RS4. And also maybe a good bit of weight reduction. $4K+ price tag would probably scare some folks away for the marginal increase in performance, if any....

[jalas]

How heavy would you estimate that manifold to be? I wish the aftermarket support was available for this vehicle like the M-cars. I know they use ITBs, but they have aftermarket plenum options made from carbon fiber. I'm sure the increased sound from the engine would be magnificent if such an option were to become available for the RS4. And also maybe a good bit of weight reduction. $4K+ price tag would probably scare some folks away for the marginal increase in performance, if any....

Just an estimate on my part but I think it was between 10-15lbs but probably closer to 10lbs.

It is not heavy just awkward to handle since your body is extended over the engine when installing and removing. Once out it feels lighter.

Plus it has the hardware for the intake vanes mounted on the bottom side that open and close.

[silverRS4]

You are a brute then Jose. Its actually 25 pounds.

[duud40]

I`ve taken a look at how you could fit itbs to this car. It`s certainly doable... You don`t have to worry about the maf sensor so that really lets you go wild with plenum size and form. The throttle plate assembly can be modified to run itbs also....