***** Official Carbon Build-Up Thread *****

[iconoclast]

has there been an official count of carbon effected rs4 vehicles in the states? if not could we make this the official thread of owners here in the states who have a b7 rs4 and is effected by this issue? maybe even vin/location for futures buyers? (optional).

[FarmerBob]

Perhaps you could add a category:

I own RS4 but I don't know if I have carbon buildup b/c Audi won't take off intake manifold to inspect.

and

I own RS4, I don't know if I have carbon buildup but I have a loss of power.

[richib86]

or i own an rs4 and had carbon build up and now its better

[iconoclast]

Perhaps you could add a category:

I own RS4 but I don't know if I have carbon buildup b/c Audi won't take off intake manifold to inspect.

and

I own RS4, I don't know if I have carbon buildup but I have a loss of power.

it wont let me add...

[SoCalS4Avant]

it wont let me add...

Added some more options for your poll.

[iconoclast]

thank you. hopefully we can get as many rs4 owners to chime in as possible...

[Prtaick]

Well I'm not exactly an RS4 owner but I have had the manifolds off of LOTS of V8 FSI Audis . Any where from 5k to 25K miles . Our shop RS4 that came to us with 5k miles had carbon deposits that you would expect to see on a much older car. I think the cleanest ones I have had apart were the engines in the R8's, even with high miles ( 10-25k ) they seem to have had less build up. One of our customers that is going to have his RS4 PES Supercharged is looking into using an additional oil separator before the factory one.

I remember when these engines came out for Audi and even during training we discussed the carbon build up issues and how it would be a huge concern down the road but it was always hush hush . I'm glad it's out in the open now, maybe something can be done about it

[voltron]

voted:
"I own an rs4 and had carbon build up and now its better"

2007 RS4
mileage when build up was found: 23,xxx
location: las vegas

[TypeRx]

I hate to nitpick but the first option (own an RS4 and have 0 issues) could probably use better definition or something. Let me paint some different scenarios for that:

1. I have an RS4 and have never had a CEL related to the engine
2. I have an RS4 but don't know if I have carbon buildup
3. I bought my RS4 used and don't know if it is experiencing a loss in power

I basically fall into the 3 options above. My car is in storage for the winter but it definitely did not have crazy pull after 5500 rpm, but was no slouch either. I have no idea if the performance is on-par with where it should be or not.

*EDIT* -- so I went ahead and selected the first option. But, I bet I do have carbon buildup and it is degrading performance -- I just don't know about it yet.

[ali9686]

I hate to nitpick but the first option (own an RS4 and have 0 issues) could probably use better definition or something. Let me paint some different scenarios for that:

1. I have an RS4 and have never had a CEL related to the engine
2. I have an RS4 but don't know if I have carbon buildup
3. I bought my RS4 used and don't know if it is experiencing a loss in power

I basically fall into the 3 options above. My car is in storage for the winter but it definitely did not have crazy pull after 5500 rpm, but was no slouch either. I have no idea if the performance is on-par with where it should be or not.

x1
same boat. waiting to see what happens.

[mickf29]

Voted:

I own an rs4 and had carbon build up and now its better

Went from 290 to 323hp from cleaning, have dyno charts to show this.

[sakimano]

Voted:

I own an rs4 and had carbon build up and now its better

Went from 290 to 323hp from cleaning, have dyno charts to show this.

that's impossible. Carbon is no problem

http://www.audizine.com/forum/search...archid=2295683


p.s. so far this is a funny thread. Half the poll respondants don't own RS4s

[NY07RS4]

I own an RS4 but don't know if I have a CB issue yet...not only due to Audi not removing the IM but because I haven't had a chance to inspect it either. I don't believe i have a loss of power but I have no hard data to support that yet. I plan to get a baseline dyno done in the near future for a number of reasons. When I have time I will inspect the valves and if there is build up I will clean it. I will do a dyno within days of cleaning (if cleaning is necessary) for comparison purposes and share the findings here.

[R1ce]

I voted "I own an RS4, had carbon, but is better now". I did a carbon clean and porting work at home and then filter change and went from 299 whp to 319whp. Hard to say how much it was affected by the carbon buildup though with a lot of changes between dyno runs.

[mickf29]

Most telling is Dave's work, where he went from something like 273 to 315 with the carbon clean alone. Then added another 8 with the port and polish work.

[iconoclast]

I hate to nitpick but the first option (own an RS4 and have 0 issues) could probably use better definition or something.

this is only carbon/sludge related issues.

[RS Maniac]

Voted "I own an RS4 & I have 0 issues..." In fact other than DRC replacements which Stasis ridded me from, never had any issues or fault codes for the entire ownership of the car.

Not to be nitpicking either (and thanx icono for taking the initiative), bit this option is a bit overlaping with "I own RS4 but I don't know if I have carbon buildup b/c Audi won't take off intake manifold to inspect." You need really bad CB to be able to detect power losses, so the truth it, even if you THINK you have 0 issues, you don't know until you pop the manifold open. At the end of the day, I think all RS4s have some CB, question is how bad it is.

Seriously, let's start a formal survey and document it in a similar way we did this for the E39 M5 CB issue. We can perhaps start detecting trends (or lack thereof), whether it is a function of mileage (not really), driving style (not likely), oil brand and its propensity for dilution (perhaps a factor), fuel octane and brand (probably a big factor), etc.

I have the M5 survey in Word doc, what's best way I can load it up?

[iconoclast]

Seriously, let's start a formal survey and document it in a similar way we did this for the E39 M5 CB issue. We can perhaps start detecting trends (or lack thereof), whether it is a function of mileage (not really), driving style (not likely), oil brand and its propensity for dilution (perhaps a factor), fuel octane and brand (probably a big factor), etc.

exactly what i was trying to do (and where i got the idea) but wanted to see first if there were enough ppl with issues to warrant further investigation... some ppl claim its overblown on the boards, some ppl claim its true, some ppl say this some say that... so i wanted to see actual numbers. this would help current owners and of course potential buyers.

[RS4POWER]

Voted "I own an RS4 & I have 0 issues..." In fact other than DRC replacements which Stasis ridded me from, never had any issues or fault codes for the entire ownership of the car.

Not to be nitpicking either (and thanx icono for taking the initiative), bit this option is a bit overlaping with "I own RS4 but I don't know if I have carbon buildup b/c Audi won't take off intake manifold to inspect." You need really bad CB to be able to detect power losses, so the truth it, even if you THINK you have 0 issues, you don't know until you pop the manifold open. At the end of the day, I think all RS4s have some CB, question is how bad it is.

Seriously, let's start a formal survey and document it in a similar way we did this for the E39 M5 CB issue. We can perhaps start detecting trends (or lack thereof), whether it is a function of mileage (not really), driving style (not likely), oil brand and its propensity for dilution (perhaps a factor), fuel octane and brand (probably a big factor), etc.

I have the M5 survey in Word doc, what's best way I can load it up?

I already started a thread like that before this one was created. The mods felt this was better suited and dumped the one I started in a necroforum.

Check out the thread *official fsi carbon build up database*
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336352
Starting at post #6

[RS Maniac]

I already started a thread like that before this one was created. The mods felt this was better suited and dumped the one I started in a necroforum.

Check out the thread *official fsi carbon build up database*

Wow, that's sad, clearly there is a lot of merit in keep such a thread hot and not OT.

BTW, is there a way I can load a Word doc here? Wanna show you what we did for the M5, then maybe start a spreadsheet where people can open and add their own data there. Somehow don't see an Attachment option here...

[iconoclast]

I already started a thread like that before this one was created. The mods felt this was better suited and dumped the one I started in a necroforum.

that thread clearly belongs in this forum... at least in my opinion...

[SoCalS4Avant]

that thread clearly belongs in this forum... at least in my opinion...

My Opinion? Not really...as the thread is really trying to apply things to all Audi vehicles that may now or at some point suffer carbon build-up issues. Plus, if our NOOBS search, they'll find it pretty readily.

[RS4POWER]

Icono- at best these two should have been joined and been a sticky here.

Like Saki said, it will just die over there. I did not even know that forum existed.

[RS4POWER]

Dan- I disagree.

The thread was created so we can track the rate of build up in different cars and what factors contribute to a rapid or slower pace.
Example, I if I am using X oil and Y fuel at Z OCI and my CB at 30k is less than yours at 50k then you might want to look in to that as well.
I know there are tons of factors as to why CB is initiated and the above factors were just as an example but the purpose of the thread is to keep a live database of info/experiments where everyone concerned can see what works and does not and hopefully one day we can all have a way to minimize and hopefully eliminate this CB saga for good.

It is not for NOOB's. It is for all of us that have this mess in our hands and want to see it solved once and for all.

[iconoclast]

I did not even know that forum existed.

same. that was my first visit to the that forum.

[Sharkfin]

what about this official carbon thread?

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336352

[iconoclast]

what about this official carbon thread?

reminds me of this post:

I already started a thread like that before this one was created. The mods felt this was better suited and dumped the one I started in a necroforum.

Check out the thread *official fsi carbon build up database*
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336352
Starting at post #6

[Sharkfin]

I missed it

[bryzf1]

1. I have an RS4 and have never had a CEL related to the engine
2. I have an RS4 but don't know if I have carbon buildup
3. I bought my RS4 used and don't know if it is experiencing a loss in power

This is the boat i'm in, but it only has 7500 miles and I feel as though it pulls hard after 5500rpms. I assume that I just don't have a great deal of build up at this point in time.

[mtndog]

1. I have an RS4 and have never had a CEL related to the engine
2. I have an RS4 but don't know if I have carbon buildup

I voted "I own an RS4 & have 0 issues"...I like 1 and 2 better. 4800 miles to date and the DRC has been leaking since my 1500 mile oil change.

[frrg]

Icono- at best these two should have been joined and been a sticky here.

Like Saki said, it will just die over there. I did not even know that forum existed.

Maybe they are just trying to spread the post/view counts to other area's that don't get used.

Mods-Please put this thread where it belongs; where information will get shared and maybe a resolution can be found

[iconoclast]

one more category could be ' i had carbon issues had it cleaned and all was better but now its back again...'

[Jenner]

Just saw a link to this thread on Quattroworld. I voted:
"I owned an RS4 & I released it into the wild because of carbon issues..."

I had a 2007 RS4. After dealing with multiple trips to the dealer for MIL and EPC lights, paying for the carbon cleaning out of pocket, then having the intake manifold replaced under warranty at 12k and then having it all happen all over again at 17k I gave up.

VAG-COM logging confirms the car was down 80hp with the buildup. I only used Shell 93 Octane and I used both Techron fuel cleaner and the VAG fuel system treatment from time to time with no results.

PLUS I had the DRC replaced TWICE(I know this doesn't have anything to do with carbon but its a major issue with the RS4) and the rear bumper/trunk alumium "look" trim replaced due to flaking/peeling.

I traded it in July 2009 for a Nissan GT-R and haven't looked back. The suspension always works as it should and the engine makes insane amounts of power 24/7.

[Sharkfin]

Wow Jenner, that's unfortunate

[iconoclast]

VAG-COM logging confirms the car was down 80hp with the buildup. I only used Shell 93 Octane and I used both Techron fuel cleaner and the VAG fuel system treatment from time to time with no results.

damn, this may be the worst i have heard so far.

[sakimano]

so far in the thread...

13 have/had carbon problems
11 don't have any carbon problems
5 have power problems but can't check the carbon issue yet
3 are clueless (that option should be deleted as it overlaps the 'i have power loss but don't know if it's carbon)

So...

13 out of 32 (40%) respondants have had confirmed carbon trouble and it could be as high as 56%

[sakimano]

My Opinion? Not really...as the thread is really trying to apply things to all Audi vehicles that may now or at some point suffer carbon build-up issues. Plus, if our NOOBS search, they'll find it pretty readily.

I have to disagree as well. We should start a poll

maybe ask Anthony if there is a way to centralize the OFFICIAL thread somewhere, but have a sticky in each applicable forum (all FSI/TSI models) that links to the main thread.

if Anthony can do that to get a vote on selling t-shirts and stickers, I'm reasonably sure it can be done for actual discussion content.

[mattlqx]

I've been thinking the past day or two about what my first steps on this issue will be. I guess I already have done something which is gather all the threads I can find regarding the issue but now, what to do about my car?

I have just two solid goals. 1) Have any cleaning done under warranty and 2) Provoke Audi into acknowledging and coming up with a solution for the widespread problem.

It seems to me the first thing to do is get photographic evidence of valve build-up. I want Audi to correct this problem but first I must 'convince' them that there is a problem. Since they already have weak fixes that they can suggest (running the cleaner through the intake manifold) and will even expect you to pay for them, the only way the effectiveness of their solutions can be judged is to get a solid "before" shot.

Since taking off the whole intake manifold is a bit of a chore to say the least, I guess the only method left is to run a boroscope in there? I believe some of the pictures that others got were from this method. Can anyone provide confirmation?

Armed with these pictures, I'd probably take them to my local dealer and have them perform a manual cleaning under warranty. I'd expect some resistance which is perfectly okay because this then can be raised to the Audi of America level. I'd assume I'd get the same song and dance from them.

At that point, it seems it would then be easy to spin this to a legal level. Maybe even class action. But I am not a lawyer. If there is some legal action, it would then be very easy to gain some media exposure on this through various automotive websites.

Now I could be surprised and they may willingly do this under warranty. That would 'fix' my car, at least temporarily. I suppose that when the issue returns, I could just repeat the cycle. Since I have fairly easy access to a dyno, it would be easy to do runs every 5k or so miles and see the downward progression of HP over time. Combined with further photographic history, I think it's pretty solid to show there is definitely a problem with these engines.

Really I believe that once critical mass is reached with exposure on this issue, Audi/VWs hand will be forced. One thing is clear to me now though, I will not be purchasing another VW/Audi FSI engine powered vehicle until this issue is acknowledged and resolved.

I welcome everyone's input on this.

[2manytoys]

I voted, and then read the first post, and noticed you only wanted cars from the states. Australia is basically a state of the US isn't it

[RS4POWER]

I voted, and then read the first post, and noticed you only wanted cars from the states. Australia is basically a state of the US isn't it

Mal, include your info on this post. It is for any state in any country.

I am really hoping the mod that moved it there will reconsider to make it a sticky here.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336352

Drop down to post #6 for info.

Is this what you had in mind Dan?