Cost to Clean Carbon?

[draab29]

Does anyone have a ballpark on the cost to have the manifold removed and carbon cleaned from the valves? Thinking about having it done for peace of mind. Thanks

[NY07RS4]

I think RS4POWER will know. I still can't get over the fact that AOA won't allow dealers to do this service under warranty. It seems criminal. Unless I'm wrong...I beleive most said the dealerships will not address the carbon cleaning (with removal of manifold etc) unless the following two stipulations are met; 1. Your CEL is on, 2. You pay. Is my understanding of this topic correct??

OP - not trying to highjack just want to confirm and receive some clarification.

[CanuckRS]

I think RS4POWER will know. I still can't get over the fact that AOA won't allow dealers to do this service under warranty. It seems criminal. Unless I'm wrong...I beleive most said the dealerships will not address the carbon cleaning (with removal of manifold etc) unless the following two stipulations are met; 1. Your CEL is on, 2. You pay. Is my understanding of this topic correct??

OP - not trying to highjack just want to confirm and receive some clarification.

getting the local dealer to inspect my car with a scope this week. kind of like an upper gi scope for the vehicle ;)
cost is a different matter, i'll do my best to get AoC to pay for it. will keep all utd

[NY07RS4]

oh the borescope (sp?) is a differnet story, that they will do in a heartbeat...

[Retsujou]

getting the local dealer to inspect my car with a scope this week. kind of like an upper gi scope for the vehicle ;)
cost is a different matter, i'll do my best to get AoC to pay for it. will keep all utd

They will pay. They payed _everything_ for me. I did have CEL and bad misfiring but if you pay for the scope and they find carbon, Audi will clean it up.

[frrg]

The dealer quoted me $700, and said they should have it done in a day or (1 1/2 days). I'v been discussing with (the Man) RS4POWER and I may just do it myself. He has been very helpful.

[NY07RS4]

They will pay. They payed _everything_ for me. I did have CEL and bad misfiring but if you pay for the scope and they find carbon, Audi will clean it up.

If you were able to get a dealer to do this (which is awesome), with proof (you providing a copy of the invoice stating what work was performed etc at no cost) the rest of us who face this issue should be able to use it as precedent, right?

[RS4POWER]

Ok guys let me clarify some things...


AoA is not very cooperative when it comes to this issue. Cel's and misfires could occur but that does not mean your IM will be removed at the first warning. AoA believes there are other factors in misfires and for them the last possibility is manifold and intake valves built up with carbon.
Like I have said in previous threads they will exhaust every other possibility by replacing injectors, sparkplugs, have you change to Shell, BG treatment, and many other things before they must do the only thing left and remove the manifold.

Now last time I got the CEL it was joined by the EPC. EPC came on because the build up was so much at the tumble flap area in the intake manifold. Those flaps were getting stuck (from sticky CB) which messed up another part (I will have to look the part up) which was rather pricey.
Point is if you ride this thing out too long other parts are bound to break down. Let me not get in to the issue that Audi/AoA discourages splitting the manifold open so any CB in areas they can not reach will remain dirty and and CB that gets cleaned up and trickles in the manifold will dry up and remain there also.
I would have been much more upset about that but I installed the ported/polished IM and brought the dirty one home which I will get cleaned, ported/polished.

Now as far as boroscope, I would be interested to hear results. Unless you are there while they are inspecting and see for yourself.... If Audi does proceed to remove the IM and clean the valves I would definitely pursue this direction.

Frrg- $700 is a bargain. It takes four hours to remove and reinstall the intake manifold. It takes about 45 minutes to an hour to scrub each valve(16). Multiply the total times $80-90/hr?

Unfortunately this happened to me while I was out of warranty. Winner Audi worked with me best they could. I was very pleased with the result. I inspected every step of this service, the tech was very thorough about everything he was doing. I would encourage anyone who wants to do this to drop in and inspect the valves upon IM removal and before the manifold is installed. This is a nightmare project for anyone...


Retsujou... Did they use the scope on yours? Is that how they proceeded to clean the carbon up?

[frrg]

Another very informative post....Whether it's me or Audi that does the cleaning I know where the IM is going once it's taken off

[RS4POWER]

Another very informative post....Whether it's me or Audi that does the cleaning I know where the IM is going once it's taken off

Have you decided to go with the Silverspeed port/polish?
Do it, clean+port/polish=

[frrg]

Have you decided to go with the Silverspeed port/polish?
Do it, clean+port/polish=

There is some dude on the forums that can have it done and turned around in no time flat I have made up my mind and the port/polish will happen regardless. However, I'm working a few different things now too. I was considering doing this first: Test Mule

1. Remove my IM and take as many pictures as possible. then put it back on
2. Buy this http://www.alcohol-injection.com/
3. Install it and run it for a few thousand miles.
4. Remove IM and take more pictures and see if the cleaning has gotten better.
5. Repeat step 3.

It would be nice to see if this will actually cleans it. If it does it will be good news for the FSI crowd. They won't need to remove the IM for the cleaning/just if they want to port/polish. A catch can will be installed for a more perminent fix. As Justincredible has stated; finding the correct jet size will be the tricky part.

[RS4POWER]

Cool man! Keep us updated.

[frrg]

Cool man! Keep us updated.

You will be the first

[R1ce]

I really think that the combination of a better catch can than stock and the water/methanol injection will go a long ways to preventing the carbon buildup. Have you checked out the Snow Performance kits? Their N/A kit is likely the one I will go with, and there are at least two RS4's that I've seen on the boards that have a WMI kit on currently.

[Retsujou]

Retsujou... Did they use the scope on yours? Is that how they proceeded to clean the carbon up?

I went through the whole diagnostic route that you described. First they changed the spark plugs. Then they changed the coils, then finally as my car threw a code that needed me to tow it to the dealership they tore the engine open. The manifold was open, as I looked into it :)

They opened the engine, cleaned each inlet valve manually, replaced the PVC valve, cleaned the manifold manually. My dealer also paid for a chemical induction cleaning and we poured 44K into the tank as a third stage added. All in all the car was in the shop two days for that. It was a hassle to get it, but once I did Audi payed for everything but the induction cleaning. My dealer decided to throw that in for my hassle, which I appreciated a lot.

[WinterRunner]

How much would one typically charge for a boroscope check-up? If there is carbon found AoA should pick up the cleaning costs correct? Thanks.

[frrg]

I really think that the combination of a better catch can than stock and the water/methanol injection will go a long ways to preventing the carbon buildup. Have you checked out the Snow Performance kits? Their N/A kit is likely the one I will go with, and there are at least two RS4's that I've seen on the boards that have a WMI kit on currently.

Who and where are these members? I would love to here about the setups they are running, and more importantly the jet size and location.

[bsrpilot44]

Who and where are these members? I would love to here about the setups they are running, and more importantly the jet size and location.

Don't you remember the RS4 with the V10 kit on it from quattroworld.com ?

[caitovS4]

Just curious... Is this also a concern for the S5, or any other FSI engine (i.e. Porsche).

It seems FSI is the future (and present) for many engines. I'm just wondering if this problem was already solved by the time Audi came out with the S5 or potentialy still exists.

[frrg]

Don't you remember the RS4 with the V10 kit on it from quattroworld.com ?

I remember a guy with a S6 who set this up, but not a RS4. Sup Dude!!!!!

[draab29]

RS4POWER

Can they do the clean+port/polish at Winner Audi? I'm not too far from there.

[WinterRunner]

Anyone wanna answer my Q? Thanks.

[ragdoll]

Just curious... Is this also a concern for the S5, or any other FSI engine (i.e. Porsche).

It seems FSI is the future (and present) for many engines. I'm just wondering if this problem was already solved by the time Audi came out with the S5 or potentialy still exists.

This has been confirmed to be affecting many DI engines. Porsche just put a DI system on their new 911's... so I will never be purschasing one of those.

[Prtaick]

Forget all the repairs, install a water/meth injection system. It will steam clean the intake and free up some power, with a good tune that is.

[40valve]

I'd much rather have the carbon removed not cleaned ...

[WinterRunner]

Forget all the repairs, install a water/meth injection system. It will steam clean the intake and free up some power, with a good tune that is.

How are you so sure Meth will do this? Also what kits are available for our 4.2's?

[Prtaick]

I'd much rather have the carbon removed not cleaned ...

That makes sense. I would rather have it taken apart and have the deposits cleaned off. Water/Meth would clean it but it would wash the junk through your engine and exhaust. You can only hope no large chunks fall off when this is happening.

How are you so sure Meth will do this?

I have not seen the long term testing on the FSI Audi engines (yet.) but I have seen high mileage turbo cars come apart looking like they had 10k miles on them. Intake and combustion chambers look clean and shiny. I have a few V8 FSI cars with direct port W/M injection on them When I get one back ill bore scope it and take some pctures.

[WinterRunner]

That makes sense. I would rather have it taken apart and have the deposits cleaned off. Water/Meth would clean it but it would wash the junk through your engine and exhaust. You can only hope no large chunks fall off when this is happening.



I have not seen the long term testing on the FSI Audi engines (yet.) but I have seen high mileage turbo cars come apart looking like they had 10k miles on them. Intake and combustion chambers look clean and shiny. I have a few V8 FSI cars with direct port W/M injection on them When I get one back ill bore scope it and take some pctures.

I will be eagerly waiting your findings and suggestions on this matter, thanks.

[RS4POWER]

RS4POWER

Can they do the clean+port/polish at Winner Audi? I'm not too far from there.

Winner Audi can clean the intake valves for you. I would give them a big thumbs up for that. Let me know should you decide to go there.
Port/polish was performed by silverRS4(AZ name). If they remove it for you and you can part with the car for a week, you can send it to silverRS4 and have it back for reinstall by the time they are done with all the cleaning.

[KryptoniK]

Who and where are these members? I would love to here about the setups they are running, and more importantly the jet size and location.

I'm one of them.. I haven't had time to post up details since I had it installed and I also wanted to try it for a while before posting feedback, I'll have a post up in a couple of days.

R1ce I saw you had questions about it on QW, I'll answer them with some pics later.

All I have to say is that the car feels like it's driving in winter temps all the time now in this summer heat ;)

[titsataki]

I'm one of them.. I haven't had time to post up details since I had it installed and I also wanted to try it for a while before posting feedback, I'll have a post up in a couple of days.

R1ce I saw you had questions about it on QW, I'll answer them with some pics later.

All I have to say is that the car feels like it's driving in winter temps all the time now in this summer heat ;)

Looking forward on more info as well.

I had a turbo car with water/meth injection and my tuner could add timing for ever and the car would not knock. Car is like running on race gas. EGT's dropped nicely with the injection

Where did you have it done?
Did you tune the car?
Did you clean the valves before hand?
Finally did you add catch cans as well?

To be honest it may be hard for the injection to clean the valves. But I believe it would do a good job keeping them clean.


cheers

Nick

[draab29]

Patrick-PES

The W/M setup sounds interesting. Do you guys do that setup at your place?

[Ill 3.0]

W/M injection should work well, but you guys aren't worried about losing factory warranty? Sure you can uninstall it easily, but you'll be left with a hole somewhere (likely intake pipe) that might be conspicuous.

[frrg]

I'm one of them.. I haven't had time to post up details since I had it installed and I also wanted to try it for a while before posting feedback, I'll have a post up in a couple of days.

R1ce I saw you had questions about it on QW, I'll answer them with some pics later.

All I have to say is that the car feels like it's driving in winter temps all the time now in this summer heat ;)

Thats great news I can't wait...

W/M injection should work well, but you guys aren't worried about losing factory warranty? Sure you can uninstall it easily, but you'll be left with a hole somewhere (likely intake pipe) that might be conspicuous.

I drive 40k+ a year, so the warranty thing for me has never been worth it. Plus I don't have a stock pipe. I have additional ports for just this type of set up. I often use the additional port for measuring intake temps along with data logging.

Also what kits are available for our 4.2's?

I have gone with this one. Just need to find out what jet size to go with.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/

[B45H1R]

I live in Houston and want to get the clean/port/polish. Any suggestions?

Anyone?

If I can get it done, I'l try to get them to take pics as more evidence of this problem. 46,000 miles. No codes yet. Still feels fast.

[R1ce]

I cleaned out my IM a few months ago and as a DIY, the cost for me was roughly $130 in misc stuff. At the same time I also ported the IM since it was off and de-flaped/de-vaned.

2 cans Seafoam - I tried a few other degreasers too but this seemed to work the best.
small brushes
gaskets
coolant
hose clamps

[Kookie]

Just had the IM off on my S4 tonight.. first time ever doing it, only took about an hour and a half.. I didn't clean it.. while it was off, cause it wasn't too bad, I needed to replace the mani due to a hole from a freak accident.

It was tons easier than I thought.. remembering what vacuum lines went where was the hard part. :)

[NoogMan]

I go in for cleaning at the dealership on Monday. They have gotten in the new gaskets and other parts to replace when they put it back together. I went through the "protocol" with AoA:

Went in with flashing CEL at startup = random misfires. They moved coil packs around and sent me home.

Flashing CEL again = put cleaner in tank

Flashing CEL again = reflashed ECU

Still flashing CEL = Going in for cleaning on Monday with 16K miles on the clock.

Dealership has been good so far....they just have to do what AoA tells them to do. Slow process, but I just give it time and of course the CEL's always come back.

[RS4 B7]

The time has come for a cleaning. Car was pinging so into the dealer for diag. No fault codes, but I've seen EPC a few times. IM has been removed and it's dirty. Going to dealer tomorrow to look it over.

[panteraRS4]

I just purchased an 2007 RS4 with 57,000 km on it, my Audi dealership clams that they can run this 3 stage cleaner through the engine and it cleans it like crazy! I told them I would have to see it to believe it and a good honest friend that works there said he did it in his 09 s4 as he was having miss fire issues engine light comes on, ECT... so they ran this cleaner through it 2x then ran a bore scope in and found it to be very clean. would anyone recommend this? I don't mave many kilometers on it so I didn't think it would be a huge issue to run it through the system as the build up should be minimal... here's hoping!!

Any thoughts on this issue would be great!!!

Cheers,
Luke, from up in Canada!! eh!