Engine assembly specs, tolerances, tips, diagrams and links document

[jibberjive]

So I also made an excel spread sheet with all of the consolidated tolerances, specs, and tips that I've accrued throughout my research and over the years. I hope to take a little of the mystery out of the DIY assembly of the rotating assembly/ heads, for anyone that might want to attempt it on their own. This should help with some of the common downfalls of the 2.7l assembly (heads mis-timed, rods installed backwards, etc). If you print it in landscape format, it's 3 pages where you can write the measurements of your engine in. Hope this maybe helps someone! Pay attention, that in the excel file there are separate HEADS and BLOCK sheets/tabs on the bottom.

Vitruvian - 2.7t Engine Assembly Document Download Link (CLICK ME TO DOWNLOAD THE FILE)

Screenshots below to give an idea, but use the file above to get all of the info







Revision 6/29/2016:

-Changed ARP2000 5/16" rod bolt torque spec to 30 ft/lbs from 26 ft/lbs
-Changed IE rod orientation to rod bearing tangs towards the exhaust side

[jibberjive]

And if there's any mistakes, feel free to bring them to my attention!

[Hyphy]

Cool stuff man..def. Will take a look at it in detail when I'm not at work.

[A62TURBO]

Perfect timing for my engine build

[shorterthanrich]

This is awesome. You are a gentleman and a scholar, and an asset to this community!

[S4 00 2.7]

Good info to share.

Thanks.

[bigern45]

what are you doing?? stop messing around and get the S finished!!!

[Rated S]

Mind if I put this on my repair page?
I'll credit you, of course.

Really good info.

[Ribbie]

This is awesome. You are a gentleman and a scholar, and an asset to this community!

I second the above!! Nice

[Capt. Obvious]

Informative stuff like this is why I put up with all the retards on forums. LOL

THANK YOU!

[MDJ]

Awesome. Thanks for posting!

[DiscoPotato]

That handwritten timing picture saved me in the past..

Given that I know that this will help someone out on here.

Thanks for sharing!!

[goohead]

honestly when i was doing timing i tried to use that pic for the chain and mine was off using it.

also for the more visual diy a shameless plug to my walkthough http://www.cardomain.com/ride/264337...udi-s4/page-14


i would recommend the wiseco app guide here to determine ring gap http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Manuals/RingEndGap.pdf

you measure ring gap to the bore not the piston and should be measured to at least 1/10 thous, you should never round off until the end of your measurements, as the end result can varry, i do all my measurements on my ti89, i downloaded a free app to do " to mm conversion

example: bore= 81.5 mm = 3.20866142"

top = .005" x 3.20866142" (bore of that cylinder, not mike value of piston** do not round off***) = 0.0160433071" round to .016" < rounded value

call me anal but i'm a perfectionist i cant help it :)

[B6T]

Awesome tool, but I would stick with either mm or inch, not both.

[jibberjive]

what are you doing?? stop messing around and get the S finished!!!

Lol. You're welcome? (ps, I'm writing this from my shop, so work is getting done son)

Mind if I put this on my repair page?
I'll credit you, of course.

Really good info.

Go for it, but wait like a week because I might make a couple of updates to it.

Alot of my info came from other places (I didn't make the drawing or any of the diagrams), and I just credited it to the internet forums.

That handwritten timing picture saved me in the past..

Given that I know that this will help someone out on here.

Thanks for sharing!!

honestly when i was doing timing i tried to use that pic for the chain and mine was off using it.

I too was worried about the handwritten picture, because it goes against the Bentley. When I saw all the people that were using it, and who those people were (reputable), I decided to use it. Then, just before doing the install I realized that I had a set of 2.7 heads 5 feet away for reference that had never been disassembled. I personally verified that the picture is correct.

also for the more visual diy a shameless plug to my walkthough http://www.cardomain.com/ride/264337...udi-s4/page-14

Awesome! I thought I had seen almost all of the S4 DIY stuff (you should see my bookmarks folders), but I don't think I've ever seen yours. I'll add it to the links.

i would recommend the wiseco app guide here to determine ring gap http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Manuals/RingEndGap.pdf

I'll add that to the links as well. I hear all different 'rules of thumb' for the ring gap spec, but the one thing that is usually consistent is that in that equation, the top ring factor that you multiply is usually .005" smaller than the bottom. I went with .055" for the top and .060" for the bottom after doing research, but I'll probably change the recommendation on the sheet to reflect Wiseco's recommendation, so that the liability is on

you measure ring gap to the bore not the piston and should be measured to at least 1/10 thous, you should never round off until the end of your measurements, as the end result can varry, i do all my measurements on my ti89, i downloaded a free app to do " to mm conversion

example: bore= 81.5 mm = 3.20866142"

top = .005" x 3.20866142" (bore of that cylinder, not mike value of piston** do not round off***) = 0.0160433071" round to .016" < rounded value

I did measure using the bore (81mm), not the piston (80.95mm or whatever), and the equation says "bore size", but I'll change the wording in the parenthesis so that no one can confuse that. And as for rounding off, I wasn't too worried for a couple of reasons, the main reason being that we're using relatively loose, general "rule of thumb" formulas in the first place (for example, I choose the factors to be .0055" and .0060", when you and some other people might use .0050" and .0055"). Also, the stock 81mm bore works out to be 3.18897", which is well inside what I'm personally comfortable rounding up to 3.19" for me. Come to think of it though, I think I used my TI calc as well, and I don't think I rounded anything til the last spec (for the final numbers), I think I just wrote 3.19" in the general formula example

call me anal but i'm a perfectionist i cant help it :)

I'm glad for it. It's because of people like you that things can get refined and improve. I'll add those links and change a couple of words.

Awesome tool, but I would stick with either mm or inch, not both.

If you want to take the time to convert those and send me the updated file, I'll put that in the original post. If not though, if someone is disassembling their engine, I'd hope they're capable of being attentive to the units

[jibberjive]

Awesome! I thought I had seen almost all of the S4 DIY stuff (you should see my bookmarks folders), but I don't think I've ever seen yours. I'll add it to the links.

Actually I take that back, I did have your cardomain page bookmarked like 3 times, but for the engine pull stuff. I swear the engine internals stuff wasn't on there a while ago?

[goohead]

Ya u know how projects goes lol

[Rated S]

Go for it, but wait like a week because I might make a couple of updates to it.

Cool if you want to email me the 'final' I'll post it up when it's ready, in case I miss anything on the forum.
Thank's again for another helpful contribution to us.

[julex]

I will use this when starting my own assembly. Thanks man!

[DiscoPotato]

I too was worried about the handwritten picture, because it goes against the Bentley. When I saw all the people that were using it, and who those people were (reputable), I decided to use it. Then, just before doing the install I realized that I had a set of 2.7 heads 5 feet away for reference that had never been disassembled. I personally verified that the picture is correct.

Believe me, Bentley is wrong. Ive been there done that. But to make things clear: Bentley is wrong for the DRIVER side cylinder head. Passenger - follow Bentley/illustration (Illustration is more clear though), Driver - follow illustration. It will make things much easier.

[jibberjive]

Believe me, Bentley is wrong. Ive been there done that. But to make things clear: Bentley is wrong for the DRIVER side cylinder head. Passenger - follow Bentley/illustration (Illustration is more clear though), Driver - follow illustration. It will make things much easier.

As you said, the illustration is correct for the driver's side as well, so if you choose to rely on only one, make it the illustration

[diabolical1]

very useful information. thanks for posting it.

[Monty23]

Has the excel sheet been updated yet? I would like to start collecting info so I can start building my second motor...

[jibberjive]

I'll get on that and repost it. I just wanted to verify one thing that was on there before I put it back up.

[Monty23]

Thank you so much

[jibberjive]

Updated and reposted the link in the first post. Added some links, a new pic or two and some stuff.

[Monty23]

I have been waiting very patiently for this! Thank you for the contribution!

[rtl5009]

Ill put this here cause Asyix's blown motor thread is on its way to deletion

Since this seems like it might be a re-occurring theme with all these big power stock motor builds, here is a something to help everyone out that pops a motor and want to attempt a rebuild in their garage to minimize cost. Just a little overview of tool/parts/ services required:

You will need 3 different components to do a bottom end build

-Special tools
-A good machine shop
-Rebuild parts

Special tools:

Building a bottom end is going to require a few special tools, I'm sure you can borrow these from somewhere.

Piston ring compressor- to get the pistons back into the cylinder (any automotive tool shop)
Crank Lock pin- To get the front crank bolt to its insane spec (ecs tuning has them cheap)
GREEN Plastigauge - to measure clearances in the bottom end (between bearings and such - autozone cheap, they probs wont have any idea what it is, come in small paper sleeves)
VAG Polydrive - to remove head bolts (ecs tuning)
A good torque wrench - no Chinese shit - at the very minimum a craftsman that is relativity new so its is in spec
A set of reverse torx sockets - these are called e sockets the rods and mains bolts are reverse torx from audi
There are special mic's to check axial clearance of the crank - these are kind of hard to source you can get away with just push on the crank axially, if it wiggles enough that you can feel something is wrong. When just the crank is installed it should spin like butttttttter.

Pistons have an arrow towards the from of the motor, rods are also directional.

Don't forget an engine stand and a cam lock bar too.

Machine shop:

When you rebuild a motor you are going to want to use new piston rings, your cylinder walls on your current motor have a glassy layer on then that is bedded by your rings. Throwing new rings in there won't do very much good unless you get the motor honed. Honing is very cheap - usually $6-$8 a hole (x6). Most machine shops wont stick your motor in their honer unless it is cleaned so add a cleaning by the machine shop (~$100 -$150). IE rods would be the best if you don't want any fuss, they are pre-balanced and the wrist pin side is clearanced from IE, so I would say go that route over RPM, or ebay rods or some shit. If you want to save a few dollars RPM rods are the legit however the wrist pin hole is not clearanced, so these will require more work at the machine shop (crank balance and wrist pin hone). It comes out slightly cheaper for the end product but you need to trust your machine shop here!

I'd get them to polish the crank too, but that's just me.

Be specific with the machine or they will start doing all kind of random shit and charge you out the ass. After it is done ask the machinest how the cylinder walls turned out, he will have a good eye for this. If he's on the fence, time to bore it out. It should turn out just fine tho, I wouldn't worry, its just good for a trained eye to look at it tho. You would have to have a pretty decent hot spot in your motor for it not to turn out good.

Remember, there is free horsepower in generating a motor that is as friction less as possible.

Parts:

Your going to all of this to do it right:

Rods
New piston rings (JHM)
New Main Bearings (ecs or oem)
New rod bearings (ecs or oem)
New thrust washers (JHM)
main stud kid (034) - you can buy stock fasteners here but if they are one use only so spend the extra cash and get the main stud kit incase you have to take it apart again.
A shit ton of good RTV (3 tubes atleast)
New head bolts (OEM or 034 has a slightly upgraded set- skip head studs they are 600 and I have never heard of anyone lifting a head)
New head gaskets (OEM)
New front main seal and flange gaskets (ecs)
New rear main seal and flange gasket (ecs)
New front crank bolt (tq to yield needs replaced ecs)
Valve cover gasket kit
Timing belt kit
Lots of brake clean or a parts washer to clean everything.

[Monty23]

What size e socket is needed to remove the stock rod bolts?

[jibberjive]

I don't remember the exact size, but this is the Harbor Freight bit set I have and it is one of these. Autozone also sells a set.

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece...set-68016.html

[temanuele]

Awesome post rtl! Very informative thread.

[rtl5009]

What size e socket is needed to remove the stock rod bolts?

e12 and e14 for rods and mains

[bobkatkat]

Bumping this just because of the great information in here. Many thanks to jibberjive, rtl5009 and goohead! HUGE amount of time saved researching.

[jibberjive]

Glad to see people still finding this. Too bad it gets lost in the clutter.

[jibberjive]

Made 2 minor revisions:

-Changed ARP2000 5/16" rod bolt torque spec to 30 ft/lbs from 26 ft/lbs
-Changed IE rod orientation to rod bearing tangs towards the exhaust side

I did this based on looking into updated info here:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11720966

[NadaGTI]

Does anyone have a location for the file? It appears as unavailable for me.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Mille Bornes]

If you PM me your email address I can send it to you

[DieselElectric]

Just going to post this here since it was bumped.

If you use the Maxspeeding rods, the tangs go towards the intake side.

Also, I've got it on my phone if anyone needs it. Very useful document.

[jibberjive]

I've updated the link in the first post, so that it works again. Also something to note, ELSAwin has some slight discrepancies from Bentley (where I pulled most of the specs from for that sheet) regarding a couple of the specs, but nothing really significant (and I, as well as countless others, have successfully built APB motors using the Bentley specs from the sheet). When I get some time, maybe I'll add a page to the document that has the ELSAwin specs as well.

[DieselElectric]

Do you have access to any listed allowable cylinder taper? I've got more than I'd like to see on my engine (after home) that I just assembled.

That said, it was a BF block I got my hands on so I'm going to run it, if it doesn't work out then I'll just punch it out. Glad to have the DD days of this car behind me.