New class action lawsuit for Audi 3.0 GASOLINE engines??

[zachf88]

I saw this on Autoweek.com.

http://autoweek.com/article/vw-diese...engined-models

A defeat device has been discovered on 3.0 GASOLINE engines. Not sure what to think, but Audi has been on the decline. My RS4 has a Takata passenger airbag (notified in April), and yet no fix has been issued for it (it's Dec)

[DocTJ]

take a peek at the EPA TDI thread, they mention the gas engines towards the end at least, with some more links and other comments:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...DI-TDIs/page18

[jaboki]

I saw this on Autoweek.com.

http://autoweek.com/article/vw-diese...engined-models

A defeat device has been discovered on 3.0 GASOLINE engines. Not sure what to think, but Audi has been on the decline. My RS4 has a Takata passenger airbag (notified in April), and yet no fix has been issued for it (it's Dec)

Honest/serious question: As long as my car is running fine, and Audi will fix/adjust my car as needed to follow suit, why do I care that they cheated emissions? Unless I'm missing the fact that this means my car will fall apart faster?

Taketa airbags are affecting a LOT of companies, not just Audi. This has nothing to do with Audi. I wouldn't say this has anything to do with Audi's decline.

[Vera_S3]

Everyone cheats, it just depends on if they get caught or not. Plus did you really pick up your Q5 and RS4 for its emissions? And for the airbag, at least its not the drivers and the passenger side + a years wait time!

[jaboki]

Everyone cheats, it just depends on if they get caught or not. Plus did you really pick up your Q5 and RS4 for its emissions? And for the airbag, at least its not the drivers and the passenger side + a years wait time!

This.

I highly doubt people are saying... "I got the 3.0 for emissions reasons." just like how people wouldn't say "I got the 3.0 for MPG reasons."

[zachf88]

I really don't care about emissions, but this lawsuit will affect resale of the vehicle and Audi's reputation is going to be affected by this. I know quite a few people who won't buy VW/ Audi diesel cars because of the previous lawsuit. Now that it's affecting 3.0 gas engines, looks as if the used market for 3.0 Audis are going to decrease a bit.

I wouldn't say this has anything to do with Audi's decline.

I understand that, but Audi has always been great with campaigns and recalls. There is no fix planned for the next year (2017) and quite simply, I don't want my wife to be impelled with shrapnel, so I've been driving the RS4 a lot less.

[jaboki]

I understand that, but Audi has always been great with campaigns and recalls.

Let's assume Apple asks Samsung to hurry up and make more LED screens or Qualcomm to hurry up and make more LTE modems so that they can make more iPhones. And... Samsung/Qualcomm says: we got our agendas, but you will get it soon enough. Does that mean Apple is now shitty at creating/fixing iPhones? I'm pretty sure it's out of their control with Takata.

I don't want my wife to be impelled with shrapnel, so I've been driving the RS4 a lot less.

A bit too dramatic, but I get your point. Keep in mind this probably affects majority of the cars on the street today. The only other option is to take public transportation, bike, or walk until it's resolved.

[ThunderDent]

Not only do I not care, but I'd never let them install any software to decrease the power on my car.

Unless they'll give me a shit ton of money for my car (enough to order a new RS7) it is pointless.

[q5 dave]

Not only do I not care, but I'd never let them install any software to decrease the power on my car.

yep

[rgvsq5]

I'd sell my SQ5 back in a heartbeat. Not because I don't enjoy owning it, but it would give me a good excuse to upgrade. :D

[QUBE5]

take a peek at the EPA TDI thread, they mention the gas engines towards the end at least, with some more links and other comments:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...DI-TDIs/page18

Thanks DocTJ!


I've been keeping the thread up to date, on at least a weekly basis, with the latest news about the scandals. It was mainly created to follow the TDI scandal, but CARB discovered the new cheats in gas engines after probing all of VW's vehicles deeper. This cheat is also shared with the 3.0L TDI.


The 3.0L TFSI cheat was found by CARB in the transmissions of tested vehicles...Here is the exact post with details on VW reluctantly confirming the cheat: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post12005875

Honest/serious question: As long as my car is running fine, and Audi will fix/adjust my car as needed to follow suit, why do I care that they cheated emissions? Unless I'm missing the fact that this means my car will fall apart faster?

No fix has been approved and several have been attempted(All were declined by CARB/EPA). States which have stricter emissions laws(ie: California) will require these impacted vehicles to be either immediately "fixed" or they will not renew registration (based on past similar events). No one can say for definite that these vehicles can even be repaired(since no fix has been approved) and even if they can, everything points to some change in the characteristics of the vehicles. If a fix does eventually meet approval, no long term impact studies have been done, so owners will be at risk. Not reassuring signs to impacted owners, hence why most don't want to risk it and want VW to buyback their vehicles.

[rgvsq5]

I signed up at the attorney's website to stay up-to-date on case. We will see what happens. It says Q5 is affected and doesn't list SQ5. Since the issue with gas engines has to do with shifting, I'm guessing SQ5 won't be affected as it has different transmission than the Q5?... Who knows.

[DocTJ]

I'd sell my SQ5 back in a heartbeat. Not because I don't enjoy owning it, but it would give me a good excuse to upgrade. :D

Lol! But to what though :/

What's an upgrade from a 440+ hp stage 2 (any tuner) sq5 ?

There's only a handful but def price bump with those vs the "value" with sq5




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[eastbayrae]

I am actually thinking of trading my '16 SQ5 for an TT RS but maybe I should wait and see if they buy it back.


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[EYE4SPEED]

SQ values are really dropping. I hope they offer a buy out - if we are eligible.


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[joe b]

Not only do I not care, but I'd never let them install any software to decrease the power on my car.

Is it possible that Audi/VW quietly rolled out "fixes" for the cheat devices on gas engines already? Reason I ask is because my 2.0t CC was in for scheduled maintenance a couple of months back and I noticed on the invoice that an ECM update was performed. I didn't complain of anything at all when I brought it in so this was performed entirely at the decision of the VW dealer. Then, I noticed on my 13 Q5 3.0t which was purchased as a CPO about a month ago that when it was CPO'd it also had an ECM update listed on the work order. I thought it was weird when I saw it on the CC invoice, then thought it was really strange that the Q5 also had one. Made me wonder if they were trying to get ahead of a potential issue. In my head the CC felt slower than before I brought it in that day (bone stock). All just speculation on my part but...


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[rgvsq5]

Lol! But to what though :/

What's an upgrade from a 440+ hp stage 2 (any tuner) sq5 ?

There's only a handful but def price bump with those vs the "value" with sq5




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Not too concerned about staying within same price range. Tossing around the idea of an S6... Or maybe even going to a Mercedes C63S. I know, all 3 are different types of cars.. SUV to sedan to coupe.

[VroomVroom]

Is it possible that Audi/VW quietly rolled out "fixes" for the cheat devices on gas engines already? Reason I ask is because my 2.0t CC was in for scheduled maintenance a couple of months back and I noticed on the invoice that an ECM update was performed. I didn't complain of anything at all when I brought it in so this was performed entirely at the decision of the VW dealer. Then, I noticed on my 13 Q5 3.0t which was purchased as a CPO about a month ago that when it was CPO'd it also had an ECM update listed on the work order. I thought it was weird when I saw it on the CC invoice, then thought it was really strange that the Q5 also had one. Made me wonder if they were trying to get ahead of a potential issue. In my head the CC felt slower than before I brought it in that day (bone stock). All just speculation on my part but...


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A number of us 3.0 folk have had the update applied. I'm not one to believe in coincidence, and I certainly suspect it's related to all of the goings on. That said, I've paid very close attention since that service visit, and have not seen a decline in performance or economy.

[auntrout]

Thanks DocTJ!


I've been keeping the thread up to date, on at least a weekly basis, with the latest news about the scandals. It was mainly created to follow the TDI scandal, but CARB discovered the new cheats in gas engines after probing all of VW's vehicles deeper. This cheat is also shared with the 3.0L TDI.


The 3.0L TFSI cheat was found by CARB in the transmissions of tested vehicles...Here is the exact post with details on VW reluctantly confirming the cheat: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post12005875





No fix has been approved and several have been attempted(All were declined by CARB/EPA). States which have stricter emissions laws(ie: California) will require these impacted vehicles to be either immediately "fixed" or they will not renew registration (based on past similar events). No one can say for definite that these vehicles can even be repaired(since no fix has been approved) and even if they can, everything points to some change in the characteristics of the vehicles. If a fix does eventually meet approval, no long term impact studies have been done, so owners will be at risk. Not reassuring signs to impacted owners, hence why most don't want to risk it and want VW to buyback their vehicles.

Being a resident of California and currently looking to purchase a 2017 3.0T I'm now a little concerned. Does this also apply to current 2017's on dealer lots? I agree with you if a fix has not been approved who knows what I'm going to have to deal with after I purchase this vehicle. Thanks for keeping this thread updated.

[sleepyheadn20]

A number of us 3.0 folk have had the update applied. I'm not one to believe in coincidence, and I certainly suspect it's related to all of the goings on. That said, I've paid very close attention since that service visit, and have not seen a decline in performance or economy.

Took my car in for service last month and was told my car needed an ecu update. Asked my service guy about it, but he shook it off like it was a routine thing. Haven't notice any major changes.
I like my SQ, but the thought if Audi buying it back is tempting. Even though I have no clue what I would get...

[auntrout]

Took my car in for service last month and was told my car needed an ecu update. Asked my service guy about it, but he shook it off like it was a routine thing. Haven't notice any major changes.
I like my SQ, but the thought if Audi buying it back is tempting. Even though I have no clue what I would get...

Would a buy back also apply for those who recently purchased (not leased) a 2017 Q5 3.0T? Thanks

[VroomVroom]

Being a resident of California and currently looking to purchase a 2017 3.0T I'm now a little concerned. Does this also apply to current 2017's on dealer lots? I agree with you if a fix has not been approved who knows what I'm going to have to deal with after I purchase this vehicle. Thanks for keeping this thread updated.

It's a safe bet that the effect - IF THERE IS ONE (let's not speculate too far out) - will extend to MY2013 for us Q-folk, and earlier than that for S4/5, and A6/7/8 applications (I may be missing some - I want to say 2010 is when the engine was introduced to the NA market). If your habit is to buy a vehicle and own it for a number of years, it may well be worth waiting. Recent TDI history is showing us that owners are "made whole," in terms of raw dollars, but inconvenience, financing expenses, and in some cases depreciation, are not really contributors to that equation. The notion of a buy-back offering a return on investment is a very extreme exception.

Personally, I'm more concerned about software fixes being shoved down our throats that rob power & economy, and likely impact the life of catalytic converters (there are always long-term impacts to "solutions" and "fixes" that neither the EPA/CARB or VAG care much about). I love my SQ, and I'm questioning myself a bit. I drank the kool-aid and loved the fact that a 3.0 with mild forced induction could make nice power up to and through redline, and still return decent economy and comply with emissions standards. Hindsight is always so crystal clear, no? Kinda' like when I bought into Sosa, McGuire, and Bonds just being naturally strong and fast.

[sleepyheadn20]

If the ecu update effects the power& economy of the car, wouldn't it be false advisement? Doesn't most SQ owners tune their car anyways? (I haven't done mine yet but is itching to do so)

[auntrout]

It's a safe bet that the effect - IF THERE IS ONE (let's not speculate too far out) - will extend to MY2013 for us Q-folk, and earlier than that for S4/5, and A6/7/8 applications (I may be missing some - I want to say 2010 is when the engine was introduced to the NA market). If your habit is to buy a vehicle and own it for a number of years, it may well be worth waiting. Recent TDI history is showing us that owners are "made whole," in terms of raw dollars, but inconvenience, financing expenses, and in some cases depreciation, are not really contributors to that equation. The notion of a buy-back offering a return on investment is a very extreme exception.

Personally, I'm more concerned about software fixes being shoved down our throats that rob power & economy, and likely impact the life of catalytic converters (there are always long-term impacts to "solutions" and "fixes" that neither the EPA/CARB or VAG care much about). I love my SQ, and I'm questioning myself a bit. I drank the kool-aid and loved the fact that a 3.0 with mild forced induction could make nice power up to and through redline, and still return decent economy and comply with emissions standards. Hindsight is always so crystal clear, no? Kinda' like when I bought into Sosa, McGuire, and Bonds just being naturally strong and fast.

thanks Vroom. I am the type to buy a vehicle and drive it until it no longer makes economic sense. I still currently driving a 2001 Infiniti and thought going to a 2017 3.0T would be a great present to myself. I wanted to purchase the 2017 since I did not want to buy the first manufacturing run in Mexico. I also believe the 3.0T is not going to be offered the first year. Not sure if a 3.0T is even going to be offered unless I go to a SQ5. I'm really starting to question myself about going with the Q5. I've test drove pretty much everything in this range, except for the Jaguar F-Pace, and the Q5 3.0T was hands down, abosolutely the car I wanted. I'm pretty bummed right now.

[joe b]

If the ecu update effects the power& economy of the car, wouldn't it be false advisement?

I would say so. I would love them to be more transparent about these ECM updates. If they are having to update my car's computer and change the way it behaves all so they can fix a lie I expect something in return.


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[SQive]

If the ecu update effects the power& economy of the car, wouldn't it be false advisement?

Yes, and there is at least one big lawsuit against them already for the whole "clean diesel" campaign.

thanks Vroom. I am the type to buy a vehicle and drive it until it no longer makes economic sense. I still currently driving a 2001 Infiniti and thought going to a 2017 3.0T would be a great present to myself. I wanted to purchase the 2017 since I did not want to buy the first manufacturing run in Mexico. I also believe the 3.0T is not going to be offered the first year. Not sure if a 3.0T is even going to be offered unless I go to a SQ5. I'm really starting to question myself about going with the Q5. I've test drove pretty much everything in this range, except for the Jaguar F-Pace, and the Q5 3.0T was hands down, abosolutely the car I wanted. I'm pretty bummed right now.

Man, go ahead and grab an SQ. Avoid future regrets.

[sleepyheadn20]

I would say so. I would love them to be more transparent about these ECM updates. If they are having to update my car's computer and change the way it behaves all so they can fix a lie I expect something in return.


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Totally agree. Also, I don't see how they can fix it. If they could make the car with the same spec legally, why wouldn't they do that in the first place. Any fix would just create more lies and problems, so buyback would be the best solution?

[auntrout]

Yes, and there is at least one big lawsuit against them already for the whole "clean diesel" campaign.



Man, go ahead and grab an SQ. Avoid future regrets.

SQive, does this potential issue also apply to the 2017 SQ5? Or we you implying to get the 2018 SQ5?

[SQive]

I wouldn't recommend the 2018 to anyone at this point.
Probably best to wait and see what the Latinos' produce before purchasing one.
Then there's the question "Is it still a German vehicle, or am I just paying German luxury prices for another hencho en Mexico product?"
Will they be less expensive because of MUCH cheaper labor and shipping cost? I seriously doubt it.

My only recommendation is that you grab an SQ5, '17 or '16.
It may actually save you some "modding money" over a regular Q since they are already nice and fast.
Besides, there won't be an '18 SQ5, and when it returns in '19, it will be a turbo 2.9L.
I know turbos are great and all, but I LOVE the instantaneous power of the supercharged 3.0 TFSI.

[jpsjr]

I wouldn't recommend the 2018 to anyone at this point.
Probably best to wait and see what the Latinos' produce before purchasing one.
Then there's the question "Is it still a German vehicle, or am I just paying German luxury prices for another hencho en Mexico product?"
Will they be less expensive because of MUCH cheaper labor and shipping cost? I seriously doubt it.

My only recommendation is that you grab an SQ5, '17 or '16.
It may actually save you some "modding money" over a regular Q since they are already nice and fast.
Besides, there won't be an '18 SQ5, and when it returns in '19, it will be a turbo 2.9L.
I know turbos are great and all, but I LOVE the instantaneous power of the supercharged 3.0 TFSI.

How the Latino's produce? Wow! I lost my Uncle Fidel Castro just last week...... try to be easy on us Latino's! Lmao!
Btw, without us Latino's not a lot of stuff would be produced......

Jose

[auntrout]

I wouldn't recommend the 2018 to anyone at this point.
Probably best to wait and see what the Latinos' produce before purchasing one.
Then there's the question "Is it still a German vehicle, or am I just paying German luxury prices for another hencho en Mexico product?"
Will they be less expensive because of MUCH cheaper labor and shipping cost? I seriously doubt it.

My only recommendation is that you grab an SQ5, '17 or '16.
It may actually save you some "modding money" over a regular Q since they are already nice and fast.
Besides, there won't be an '18 SQ5, and when it returns in '19, it will be a turbo 2.9L.
I know turbos are great and all, but I LOVE the instantaneous power of the supercharged 3.0 TFSI.

I'm on the same page as you regarding the 2018's being cheaper; I doubt it. I think we will continue to be paying German prices for built in Mexico. I also did test drive the SQ5 and agree it was a total blast to drive; more power than I'd ever need. I had a chance to test drive the 2.0T, 3.0T and SQ5 in that order all during the same visit to my local dealer. As much the SQ5 was a total joy to drive, I think for what I'm looking for the 3.0T fit the bill. Thanks for the info on the new SQ5; did not know I wasn't going to be available until 2019 and that it was going to be a 2.9L turbo. Since the current SQ5 is using the same 3.0T engine, albeit tuned for a LOT more power, do you know if it is also affected with this potential gasoline engine lawsuit. thanks

[SQive]

No disrespect intended. In fact, I thought Latino would be less offensive than Mexican. Sorry, I'm not very PC. It seems there's always a group of people somewhere just waiting to be offended by something someone else says. I just wish everyone would get over themselves. My point was that we get a lot of crap from Mexico, just like we get a lot of crap from China. Whoops! I've probably managed to offend even more people now. It's not the fault of the workers. It's the decision of management to make make shit cheaper without passing those savings on to the consumers.

I don't know about the 2017's being involved with another scandal. I guess it depends on when they decided to stop doing it. . .which I imagine occurred shortly after the dieselgate discovery.

[auntrout]

No disrespect intended. In fact, I thought Latino would be less offensive than Mexican. Sorry, I'm not very PC. It seems there's always a group of people somewhere just waiting to be offended by something someone else says. I just wish everyone would get over themselves. My point was that we get a lot of crap from Mexico, just like we get a lot of crap from China. Whoops! I've probably managed to offend even more people now. It's not the fault of the workers. It's the decision management to make make shit cheaper without passing those savings on to the consumers.

I don't know about the 2017's being involved with another scandal. I guess it depends on when they decided to stop doing it. . .which I imagine occurred shortly after the dieselgate discovery.

I thought I read that BMW is also planning to move production of their X3 to south of the border sometime soon. It comes down to the bottomline, more $$$'s in the hands of BMW, Audi, etc.

[jpsjr]

No disrespect intended. In fact, I thought Latino would be less offensive than Mexican. Sorry, I'm not very PC. It seems there's always a group of people somewhere just waiting to be offended by something someone else says. I just wish everyone would get over themselves. My point was that we get a lot of crap from Mexico, just like we get a lot of crap from China. Whoops! I've probably managed to offend even more people now. It's not the fault of the workers. It's the decision of management to make make shit cheaper without passing those savings on to the consumers.

I don't know about the 2017's being involved with another scandal. I guess it depends on when they decided to stop doing it. . .which I imagine occurred shortly after the dieselgate discovery.

Dude stop! I was kidding!!! I far from being PC!! No worries!! I agree with you!! My 2015 X5M was built in SC and I need to say is that it was built like shit!! Bottom line, I'll keep my SQ5 until I'm bored and force myself to the Macan Turbo. I buy German, to have German!!
Please don't take my comment as a serious one, that's why I stated my Uncle Fedel Castro!!

Jose


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[jpsjr]

I thought I read that the BMW is also planning to move production of their X3 to south of the border sometime soon. It comes down to the bottomline, more $$$'s in the hands of BMW, Audi, etc.

Apparently everyone is going to Mexico!! Sad, really sad!


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[SQive]

Yeah, I know. Since we're not being PC, you're privy to the plan, right? While Trump's wall is being built, Mexicans are going to flood into this country. Then, when it's finished, we're all going to invade Mexico, where all the jobs and warm weather are. We'll all be down there enjoying the weather as they try desperately to get back across the border, but wait. . .there's a wall! Those tricky gringos!

[jpsjr]

That is too F'ing funny!!! Love it!!

Jose


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[rusq5]

SQ values are really dropping. I hope they offer a buy out - if we are eligible.


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Have they? Are you talking pre diesel scandal or now just after the 3.0T gas news? I haven't really been watching the used price.