Timing tensioner failure - Lucky me, 3 codes: p0011, p0016 & p0299 - Now with Pics

[englishbay]

Which dealer was that? I will be sure to avoid them! I've been very happy with the service/support at Capilano Audi. You could try them for a quote...ask for Dan Gyra.

I phoned downtown and they said its 5 hours to do the timing tensioner. The belt would be more. I asked for the engine R&R and they said 10 hours, but I didn't get either in writing - just a phone call to the techs (not the service people). It was Capilano Audi that said that the engine needed to come out. Wasn't Dan though, it was someone that I hadn't seen before.

[asfastas63]

$300 preventative job? Tell me more!

I would have gladly paid the extra cost while my stage 2 rebuild was being performed, but the service manager told me I didn't need it. Could it be that the timing chain failures on this forum are just the 1% and there's really nothing to worry about??

You're right I was exaggerating. It only cost me ~$300 because I insisted they do it while they were already in there for oil consumption so I don't think I was charged anything for labor. Even still a $1,000 preventative maintenance every 100k miles isn't that crazy, coming from the world of diesel VW's we had to do timing chains and water pumps every 100k with those.

You asked a good question to the OP which I'm not sure he completely understood. So once we have the new design, are we good for life? Or is refreshing the timing chain a good idea every 100k miles? I think he was saying the former, but if I make it to 200k with mine I may be inclined to have it replaced again for good measure.

[doowopaudi]

You're right I was exaggerating. It only cost me ~$300 because I insisted they do it while they were already in there for oil consumption so I don't think I was charged anything for labor. Even still a $1,000 preventative maintenance every 100k miles isn't that crazy, coming from the world of diesel VW's we had to do timing chains and water pumps every 100k with those.

You asked a good question to the OP which I'm not sure he completely understood. So once we have the new design, are we good for life? Or is refreshing the timing chain a good idea every 100k miles? I think he was saying the former, but if I make it to 200k with mine I may be inclined to have it replaced again for good measure.

I regret not insisting that the timing chain tensioner be changed while the engine was out. The service advisor did attempt to calm my fears by saying that our timing components are good until 200,000 miles. In fact, I checked the 2010 scheduled maintenance schedule and found that only the TTS and A3 need it changed at the 110,ooo or 130,ooo mile mark (respectively). The timing tensioner is not mentioned.

Still, I'd rather pay $1000 than $6000 if it means I can run my car for another 100,000 miles with a new or updated timing chain tensioner.

[doowopaudi]

That sounds much more reasonable. Maybe buy the parts from ECS and take it to them so you know you have all of the update gear?

Thanks

Does anyone have the link for the updated gear?

I saw this, but not sure which one it would be.
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...Engine/Timing/

[lettuce]

Hey bud; the basics are still the same. That's quite a job you will have then as you'll have to rip apart the whole front of the car in order to get to the tensioner, lock it in place and also to be able to relieve the tension on the timing chain.

What do you have for a valve spring compressor? Are you planning on filling up the cylinder's with air to hold the valves in place while you change the valve seals?

Those camshaft pins move the cam's cylinder lobe pairs into proper maintenance position so that you avoid piston to valve interference as well as not having to fight through a heaver lobe lift if it's engaged. Not sure if you're aware on how the exhaust cam functions on our cars, but here's a video:

The "pins" that I have, act like the cam actuators when active to move the cam lobes on the camshaft - depending on what position they are installed in.

I'm gonna send you a PM as well - I want to pick your brain on a few things

Wow, awesome vid. I had been wondering how the hell the Valvelift system worked. That's pretty ingenious how they implemented it. As far as the cam pins are concerned though, isn't the Valvelift system only active at higher RPMs? So if my car was shut off idling, the cam lobes should all be on the lower-lift setting, no?

Anyway, I'm going to do this without taking the front of my car or motor apart. Well, that's the plan at least. To just do the valve seals I think I'll be able to get away with just taking the top timing cover and valve cover off. If I was going to strip the whole thing down I'd just do the entire timing job at once, but I'm not planning on doing that on this motor, even though it has 125k, because I currently have this guy just sorta hanging out in my garage.



Basically what I'm hoping to do is take that little clip-on tensioner off the top, which will give me a little bit of slack, and then after I take the valve cover/cam bridge off I'll be able to just tilt the cams forward to slip the chain off the gears. Reassembly might be a bit annoying getting everything aligned by doing that in reverse, but I should be able to get it done with the cams/chain marked with their original alignment orientation. Just have to make sure I don't drop the whole chain down into the lower compartment in the meantime.

For tools I have everything in this picture plus some Permatex anaerobic gasket maker for the valve cover.



Link to post is here for a detailed rundown of parts.

So yeah you can see I have a compressor line and fitting to pressurize the combustion chambers to keep the valves from dropping, and the Listle keeper remover/installer set has two tools, a large and small, and the smaller one is almost exactly the diameter of a quarter so I have to imagine it'll be small enough to fit in the spring valleys.

[doowopaudi]

Looks like there may be a class action lawsuit for this in the works.

Found this link in a recent post in this thread.

I found this on the internet. This guy was also involved in the VW 1.8 engine oil sludge class action.

https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wordpress.com

[Allowencer]

I phoned downtown and they said its 5 hours to do the timing tensioner. The belt would be more. I asked for the engine R&R and they said 10 hours, but I didn't get either in writing - just a phone call to the techs (not the service people). It was Capilano Audi that said that the engine needed to come out. Wasn't Dan though, it was someone that I hadn't seen before.

That's reasonable for sure. Our cars is a chain, not a belt (as you can see in my pics). I could see another hour'ish if you want the chain and guides changed. Those other guys must be smoking something since they should 'know' the car.

You're right I was exaggerating. It only cost me ~$300 because I insisted they do it while they were already in there for oil consumption so I don't think I was charged anything for labor. Even still a $1,000 preventative maintenance every 100k miles isn't that crazy, coming from the world of diesel VW's we had to do timing chains and water pumps every 100k with those.

You asked a good question to the OP which I'm not sure he completely understood. So once we have the new design, are we good for life? Or is refreshing the timing chain a good idea every 100k miles? I think he was saying the former, but if I make it to 200k with mine I may be inclined to have it replaced again for good measure.

Even at $300 to change the tensioner is ridiculous. All the timing and everything had to come off anyways when the short block had to get removed from the car so the pistons can be changed. Literally takes 10 mins to swap the tensioner once it's 'right there'.

Ah, good point on the context there - I didn't read it that way. I have commented though that these chains are pretty decent. I can see them lasting for awhile; what's "awhile"? Who knows, I'd say it should be changed around 200k IMHO as the chain will stretch, but the tensioner will adjust with it (the purpose of it). However, the tensioner can only 'help' so far, based on how far the piston can extrude, and the geometry within the timing guide setup. At some point I'd imagine you'd hear chatter noise and know its that time to get it swapped.

I regret not insisting that the timing chain tensioner be changed while the engine was out. The service advisor did attempt to calm my fears by saying that our timing components are good until 200,000 miles. In fact, I checked the 2010 scheduled maintenance schedule and found that only the TTS and A3 need it changed at the 110,ooo or 130,ooo mile mark (respectively). The timing tensioner is not mentioned.

Still, I'd rather pay $1000 than $6000 if it means I can run my car for another 100,000 miles with a new or updated timing chain tensioner.

I agree. If you update everything, it should be solid, for easily another 100k+. That's why I'm doing everything I am right now; plus, it's not going back to stock

Does anyone have the link for the updated gear?

I saw this, but not sure which one it would be.
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...Engine/Timing/

I thought I posted a bunch of links on this in this thread...
From ECS:
Basic timing kit: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...ing/ES2608043/
Ultimate timing kit: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...ing/ES2592684/
The top 2 kits can vary depending on what car you have (year, etc.) If you contact ECS with your VIN, they'll be able to match you up to the correct kit.
New tensioner: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...ing/ES2502522/

I've advised that other parts will need to be swapped as well if you do this. In addition, the front cover bolts are TTY so you'll have to replace them.

EDIT:
Sorry, I'm getting some threads mixed up; all this timing and tensioner talk is blending LOL. I posted all of the details in a different thread; here's the post: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11406628
Here is what I posted:
I would highly recommend anyone to just swap all of those internals out. On ECS's site, here is the ultimate kit:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...ing/ES2592683/ - $653
That kit does not include a front timing cover, which I will almost guarantee will get bent upon removal (see my thread on why); new cover:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4....0T/ES2737581/ - $140
and the kit doesn't include the oil pump chain and tensioner:
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4....0T/ES2224492/ - $85
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...2.0T/ES281409/ - $31
All of that is just over $900 and you'll need to get the proper sealant stuff with is like $70 alone
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...2.0T/ES463634/
There's a $1000 basically right there.

[asfastas63]

Even at $300 to change the tensioner is ridiculous. All the timing and everything had to come off anyways when the short block had to get removed from the car so the pistons can be changed. Literally takes 10 mins to swap the tensioner once it's 'right there'.

I had the tensioner and chain replaced, I think the chain is the bulk of that cost.

[Allowencer]

I had the tensioner and chain replaced, I think the chain is the bulk of that cost.

Ah! That makes more sense. $75 for the tensioner + $155 for the chain; so that's $230 right there, then add in the dealer-inflation. So $300 makes sense

[Allowencer]

Wow, awesome vid. I had been wondering how the hell the Valvelift system worked. That's pretty ingenious how they implemented it. As far as the cam pins are concerned though, isn't the Valvelift system only active at higher RPMs? So if my car was shut off idling, the cam lobes should all be on the lower-lift setting, no?

Anyway, I'm going to do this without taking the front of my car or motor apart. Well, that's the plan at least. To just do the valve seals I think I'll be able to get away with just taking the top timing cover and valve cover off. If I was going to strip the whole thing down I'd just do the entire timing job at once, but I'm not planning on doing that on this motor, even though it has 125k, because I currently have this guy just sorta hanging out in my garage.



Basically what I'm hoping to do is take that little clip-on tensioner off the top, which will give me a little bit of slack, and then after I take the valve cover/cam bridge off I'll be able to just tilt the cams forward to slip the chain off the gears. Reassembly might be a bit annoying getting everything aligned by doing that in reverse, but I should be able to get it done with the cams/chain marked with their original alignment orientation. Just have to make sure I don't drop the whole chain down into the lower compartment in the meantime.

For tools I have everything in this picture plus some Permatex anaerobic gasket maker for the valve cover.



Link to post is here for a detailed rundown of parts.

So yeah you can see I have a compressor line and fitting to pressurize the combustion chambers to keep the valves from dropping, and the Listle keeper remover/installer set has two tools, a large and small, and the smaller one is almost exactly the diameter of a quarter so I have to imagine it'll be small enough to fit in the spring valleys.

Yeah, the video helps 'show' people 'how' it actually works. Great point and I had the same thoughts. I followed the procedure from alldata, so my guess it puts the cam into proper 'service' position so the lobes are at the lowest 'lift' point when #1 is at proper TDC. This would then put less strain and tension on the cam bridge which is holding the cams in place. This allows for ease of removal of the cover and the prevention of damage to cam journals, etc. There are 2 different procedures on that cam to place the lobes in certain positions based on what type of service you are doing. To add a little more info on it, the higher lobes, which are paired to the lower RPM/idle ones, are not in 1:1 orientation, they are degree'd advanced (I believe) a certain number of degrees. So, when piston #1 is placed at TDC, I think it places the cam into a position as I just described.

Nice short block - where'd you get that from?

Be careful of that clip on tensioner. I'll take a pic of mine when I get home later; it snapped in 2 pieces on me and I didn't even have the chain on the sprockets! I like where you're going with it; I'm not sure if that will buy you enough 'slack' to be able to free the cams or not though. You'll know when you try that's for sure. Do you have T10352 to remove the control valve out of the intake cam? If not, you wont be able to take the control valve assembly off of the cam sprockets in order to get to the cams.

Interesting valve spring tool, I haven't seen that one before. I'll have to check it out.

FYI, only use like 80-90 PSI in the cylinder; anything more is too much and anything less might not be enough if you accidentally hit a valve, you might break the air pressure and down it will go!

[zokissima]

I'm going to be changing my valve seals this weekend and you seem to know what you're doing. I've done timing work (among just about everything else) on old small block Chevys but this seems a bit more complicated. I have all the usual tools, but am I going to need anything else? I was just planning on taking the timing cover off, marking the positions of the two cams, taking the valve cover off, cams out, change the seals and then reassemble with the cams in their previous orientation before bolting the valve cover and then the timing cover back on.

I see you used "camshaft pins" to do something with the exhaust lobes after removing their actuators. This is completely foreign to me, the lobes spin on the camshaft? What happens if I just pull the cam and put it back on? Lots of bad noises when I start it back up? Even if I crank it over by hand a few times first to check for interference?

Just out of curiosity, since I've been following your build thread a bit, why are you changing your valve seals.

[Allowencer]

Looks like there may be a class action lawsuit for this in the works.

Found this link in a recent post in this thread.

Great find and great share!

So, I called the lawyer; we talked for over an hour lol. He's gathering information and data at this point. His advise for right now, if you have failure because of this issue, document it all, keep all the receipts and if something comes along the way, we should be able to reclaim something. I would keep everything too, including the parts, if you take the car in for this service as a preventive measure.

[doowopaudi]

Great find and great share!

So, I called the lawyer; we talked for over an hour lol. He's gathering information and data at this point. His advise for right now, if you have failure because of this issue, document it all, keep all the receipts and if something comes along the way, we should be able to reclaim something. I would keep everything too, including the parts, if you take the car in for this service as a preventive measure.

I will try to get this repair done ASAP now. Thanks for calling! Thanks for creating this thread!!

[Allowencer]

I forgot to add that I shared all of my research and data with the lawyer. I think I fed him a decent amount of info.

Here's some new info I have come across though; TSB's on this!
On the CCTA & CBFA motors, the first TSB came out on this tensioner design (not sure if it's the exact same part number though); TB-15-11-04, dated 12/22/2011

Over a half a year later, a new one came out that superseded the previous one; new one: TB-15-12-01, dated 7/23/2012.

Here's the description on the latest TSB:
VOLKSWAGEN: ALL MODELS EXPERIENCE THE TIMING CHAIN SLIPPING, RATTLING NOISES OF THE ENGINE AFTER STARTING, AND ENGINE FAILS TO START. 2008-13 ALL MODELS. *PE


EDIT: Looks like I might have just confirmed that it IS the SAME tensioner. Check this out, someone from the VW forum posted the oil tensioner that fails in the 2.0 TSI:
http://www.eurodrivers.ca/forums/sho...l=1#post284813
Pic of that tensioner (old one is on the right):

Pic of the tensioner from my car:


Gee.... same damn part number....

[oshwi]

So if theres a tsb on these, they should be done by dealers right?

[Allowencer]

So if theres a tsb on these, they should be done by dealers right?

That't the thing, the TSB doesn't call out our motor code (CAEB). It's the other motors; however, its the same damn timing tensioner (per my findings above). Not sure what anyone/everyone can do to try and raise awareness on this to Audi. Maybe hit up AoA?

[jfo]

This makes it even more surprising that they didn't add this part to the list of components to replace during stage 2 repairs. Perhaps they didn't want to draw more attention to it.

[oshwi]

oh wow, thats messed up. theyre probably hoping that it fails after 100k miles so they can just wash their hands of it. anyways, i just dropped my car of to get the tensioner updated. was quoted $1700 for all the railings and chain all together. just had them do the tensioner. figured it should hold me till 200k miles.

[lettuce]

Yeah, the video helps 'show' people 'how' it actually works. Great point and I had the same thoughts. I followed the procedure from alldata, so my guess it puts the cam into proper 'service' position so the lobes are at the lowest 'lift' point when #1 is at proper TDC. This would then put less strain and tension on the cam bridge which is holding the cams in place. This allows for ease of removal of the cover and the prevention of damage to cam journals, etc. There are 2 different procedures on that cam to place the lobes in certain positions based on what type of service you are doing. To add a little more info on it, the higher lobes, which are paired to the lower RPM/idle ones, are not in 1:1 orientation, they are degree'd advanced (I believe) a certain number of degrees. So, when piston #1 is placed at TDC, I think it places the cam into a position as I just described.

Nice short block - where'd you get that from?

Be careful of that clip on tensioner. I'll take a pic of mine when I get home later; it snapped in 2 pieces on me and I didn't even have the chain on the sprockets! I like where you're going with it; I'm not sure if that will buy you enough 'slack' to be able to free the cams or not though. You'll know when you try that's for sure. Do you have T10352 to remove the control valve out of the intake cam? If not, you wont be able to take the control valve assembly off of the cam sprockets in order to get to the cams.

Interesting valve spring tool, I haven't seen that one before. I'll have to check it out.

FYI, only use like 80-90 PSI in the cylinder; anything more is too much and anything less might not be enough if you accidentally hit a valve, you might break the air pressure and down it will go!

I got the block on eBay. The seller is a shop in Florida that parts out totaled European cars apparently. Was under $400 shipped and appears to be in great shape.

Regarding that tool, no, I don't have that. That's an absolute necessity? I guess I'll have to wait another weekend then. Unless a local Audi dealer has one lying around, I'll go check in the morning. Maybe I'll pick up an extra one of those tensioners too in case I break mine.

The valve spring tool is awesome. I haven't used one like this before but after seeing this video I had to pick one up (Fast forward to 1:00 to see it in action):

[Jerry1847]

Yo, I have a set of IE valve springs if you want to do a crazy upgrade. I got them and then got lazy. One of those while you in there jobs. Lemme know if you need them.

[Allowencer]

This makes it even more surprising that they didn't add this part to the list of components to replace during stage 2 repairs. Perhaps they didn't want to draw more attention to it.

Technically if the dealership isn't aware of the issue, meaning they, themselves haven't seen a trend on it or even their group of dealerships (if multiples are owned), you're just unaware. If you lookup the technical bulletins on this car/motor, nothing like this is documented. Its the other motor codes (what I've listed) that have it documented.

oh wow, thats messed up. theyre probably hoping that it fails after 100k miles so they can just wash their hands of it. anyways, i just dropped my car of to get the tensioner updated. was quoted $1700 for all the railings and chain all together. just had them do the tensioner. figured it should hold me till 200k miles.

How much in price difference did they charge you? You should be 'ok' and it should last. As I've mentioned, if you're in there, might as well freshen all the gear up. Your choice though.

I got the block on eBay. The seller is a shop in Florida that parts out totaled European cars apparently. Was under $400 shipped and appears to be in great shape.

Regarding that tool, no, I don't have that. That's an absolute necessity? I guess I'll have to wait another weekend then. Unless a local Audi dealer has one lying around, I'll go check in the morning. Maybe I'll pick up an extra one of those tensioners too in case I break mine.

The valve spring tool is awesome. I haven't used one like this before but after seeing this video I had to pick one up (Fast forward to 1:00 to see it in action):

Nice find on the block! I've built all sorts of motors. I didn't think I'd be taking the Audi this far but since I'm here now, I might be doing that as well down the road. There's a top notch engine shop that I've always taken my machine work to and they never disappoint me in their work.

Yeah, that tool is necessary. I'll see if I can take some pics of it for ya. It has 2 notches within the valve itself and the tool lines up with those so it can be screwed in / unscrewed. Without this, the cam control assembly cannot be removed, thus you cannot get to the cams. For sure get another one of those top guide rails.

That valve spring tool is awesome! Never seen it before; now I gotta get that to add to my collection of tools LOL. I like how they used nylon rope too to stuff it in the cylinder then bring the piston back up as high as you can go to compress the rope between the valves and the piston.

Yo, I have a set of IE valve springs if you want to do a crazy upgrade. I got them and then got lazy. One of those while you in there jobs. Lemme know if you need them.

Hey Jerry - I'll PM ya!

[oshwi]

yea, it was around $800 in difference to get it done for me. my buddy who has a K04'ed MK6 GTI also had it done when he had 30k miles and hes at 117k miles now. no problems so far *knock on wood*. hoping for the same on my car.

[PaulinS]

yea, it was around $800 in difference to get it done for me. my buddy who has a K04'ed MK6 GTI also had it done when he had 30k miles and hes at 117k miles now. no problems so far *knock on wood*. hoping for the same on my car.

So it was $1100 total for the tensioner? What dealer did you go to Oshwi, I see your from JC.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

[oshwi]

So it was $1100 total for the tensioner? What dealer did you go to Oshwi, I see your from JC.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

i was quoted $850-900 just for the tensioner. I went to a shop in paterson NJ, ill let you know when i get the car tomorrow or tues how much the total is.

[zokissima]

I was just reviewing the alldata on this; you suggested that we replace the oil pump chain and tensioner at the same time, since it's all apart anyways. I just wanted to confirm; to do that, the oil pan DOES NOT have to be removed correct? Just the front upper and lower chain covers, correct?

[Allowencer]

Looks like the oil pan does have to come off to do the oil chain. I was looking at it and don't see how you can take the chain off of the oil pump gear, which is in the pan, with the clearance that is available to you once the front [lower] timing cover is off. I might be wrong and maybe it's possible, but I don't think you can. I intend on taking my oil pan off to inspect everything and redo the seal anyways. Piece of mind and the whole motor will have new sealants and gaskets (that's the plan).

[Liquid Smoke]

anybody ever see an OEM part with China marked on it? i bought this tensioner from Europa Parts and it's the updated 06K109467K part number, listed as genuine/oem.

the tensioner itself looks to be good quality and just like the oem part should be, even has the VW logo stamped on it, but the only thing that threw me off is it also says China. i know there can be other suppliers and stuff and still be OEM, but just wanted to be sure before i go ahead and update with this. i asked EuropaParts and they assured me it was genuine and would be ok, so i do trust them, but can't help be paranoid lol, i've had to deal with some engine issues early on so i don't want to experience anything like that again.

and also this is the chain we replace with this right, listed as the upper chain. the longer one compared to the 'lower' chain. part # 06K109158AD ?

[Allowencer]

anybody ever see an OEM part with China marked on it? i bought this tensioner from Europa Parts and it's the updated 06K109467K part number, listed as genuine/oem.

the tensioner itself looks to be good quality and just like the oem part should be, even has the VW logo stamped on it, but the only thing that threw me off is it also says China. i know there can be other suppliers and stuff and still be OEM, but just wanted to be sure before i go ahead and update with this. i asked EuropaParts and they assured me it was genuine and would be ok, so i do trust them, but can't help be paranoid lol, i've had to deal with some engine issues early on so i don't want to experience anything like that again.

and also this is the chain we replace with this right, listed as the upper chain. the longer one compared to the 'lower' chain. part # 06K109158AD ?

That is the correct part number but I haven't seen any with 'CHINA' on them. Then again, I really haven't "held" one of the latest revision tensioners yet either so I can't really say anything to that regard.

Yes, the longer of the 3 chains - it's the main timing chain that you need to replace. The part number you listed matches what I looked up on ECS's website so I'd say you're good.

[Liquid Smoke]

cool, i did get this off a trusted vendor so i'm hoping it's all good then. i asked a friend thats an audi mechanic and he said once in awhile you could see them, not much from the dealer but probably other wholesalers. even the ones ive seen on ebay a few look just like mine with china on it but are listed as genuine oem. this also has the design just like the revised part so i know it's the right updated one at least.

i'm at 107k miles now and getting it done this week hopefully, this thread scared me i cant put it off any longer lol.

[zokissima]

Looks like the oil pan does have to come off to do the oil chain. I was looking at it and don't see how you can take the chain off of the oil pump gear, which is in the pan, with the clearance that is available to you once the front [lower] timing cover is off. I might be wrong and maybe it's possible, but I don't think you can. I intend on taking my oil pan off to inspect everything and redo the seal anyways. Piece of mind and the whole motor will have new sealants and gaskets (that's the plan).

This is what I'm trying to determine now; whether I need an oil pan gasket as well for this job (cost just keeps rising and rising lol), if we're replacing all the chains. I'm reading the AllData now on the Camshaft timing chain, removing & installing directions, and it states:

¤ The markings - 1 - on the camshafts must point upward.
Remove the lower timing chain cover, refer to => [ Lower Timing Chain Cover, Replacing ] See: Timing Cover\Service and Repair\Timing Chain Cover, Removing and Installing\Lower Timing Chain Cover, Replacing.
Press the oil pump chain tensioner in direction of - arrow - and secure it with a Locking Pin (3 pc.) (T40011).



Remove the oil pump chain tensioner - 1 -.
Remove the oil pump drive chain.
Remove the bolts - arrows -.

And then it just continues on from there...
Now, it does state that if you're changing the oil pump, the pan has to come off, (but none of the covers) but otherwise, doesn't seem to be that case. Could be by pressing the oil pump tensioner as specified would give slack to the chain, enough to get it off the pump... Any way you could take a few minutes and take a look, if it's possible? Would save me from having to buy more stuff! :)

[DPD314]

i was quoted $850-900 just for the tensioner. I went to a shop in paterson NJ, ill let you know when i get the car tomorrow or tues how much the total is.

Paterson What shop did you use? What was the total cost? I know mine needs doing sooner or later. Hopefully before it fails. I am beginning to think it's sad my shop knows me on a first name basis.

[b8tamaster]

What's the word on the necessity of changing the guide rails?

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[doowopaudi]

Great find and great share!

So, I called the lawyer; we talked for over an hour lol. He's gathering information and data at this point. His advise for right now, if you have failure because of this issue, document it all, keep all the receipts and if something comes along the way, we should be able to reclaim something. I would keep everything too, including the parts, if you take the car in for this service as a preventive measure.

Hey Allowencer,

Did you receive an email from the lawyer today? I received an email from him in response to the email I had originally sent him Feb 18th of this year, asking me if I was interested in being a named class representative in the class action lawsuit. I'm in the middle of replying and letting him know I am unable, since he's mainly seeking NY representative and also since my timing tensioner has not failed yet.

To anyone reading this who has had their timing tensioner fail, you may want to contact him.
https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wo...ain-tensioner/
Thomas P. Sobran
7 Evergreen Lane
Hingham, MA 02043
Tel: (781) 741-6075
Fax: (781) 741-6074
[email protected]

[A4 Centaur]

^ Good call! Hopefully there might be a little light at the end of the tunnel!

[Allowencer]

Sorry guys for replying weeks later... I've been really busy, got sick and this last week has been crazy. I posted an update with details in my 'build' thread if you're curious.

cool, i did get this off a trusted vendor so i'm hoping it's all good then. i asked a friend thats an audi mechanic and he said once in awhile you could see them, not much from the dealer but probably other wholesalers. even the ones ive seen on ebay a few look just like mine with china on it but are listed as genuine oem. this also has the design just like the revised part so i know it's the right updated one at least.

i'm at 107k miles now and getting it done this week hopefully, this thread scared me i cant put it off any longer lol.

Now that I have all the parts in, the new generation, replacement tensioner looks different than that one; not from China! Man, I'd be skeptical of that one; almost think its a fraud logo as parts like these are usually manufactured from a single source and the shipped around. I could be wrong, but that's what my gut is telling me. Here is a pic of the new tensioner, out of an OEM box from ECS Tuning:

This is what I'm trying to determine now; whether I need an oil pan gasket as well for this job (cost just keeps rising and rising lol), if we're replacing all the chains. I'm reading the AllData now on the Camshaft timing chain, removing & installing directions, and it states:

¤ The markings - 1 - on the camshafts must point upward.
Remove the lower timing chain cover, refer to => [ Lower Timing Chain Cover, Replacing ] See: Timing Cover\Service and Repair\Timing Chain Cover, Removing and Installing\Lower Timing Chain Cover, Replacing.
Press the oil pump chain tensioner in direction of - arrow - and secure it with a Locking Pin (3 pc.) (T40011).



Remove the oil pump chain tensioner - 1 -.
Remove the oil pump drive chain.
Remove the bolts - arrows -.

And then it just continues on from there...
Now, it does state that if you're changing the oil pump, the pan has to come off, (but none of the covers) but otherwise, doesn't seem to be that case. Could be by pressing the oil pump tensioner as specified would give slack to the chain, enough to get it off the pump... Any way you could take a few minutes and take a look, if it's possible? Would save me from having to buy more stuff! :)

As I mentioned above, the pan has to come off to do the oil chain. Here's a pic of what you have to work with, with the oil pan on:

What's the word on the necessity of changing the guide rails?

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

Is it, absolutely, 100% necessary? No. Not unless there are wear marks and grooves in your guides currently (which you won't know until you pull it apart). The critical item is the tensioner itself for sure. My recommendation is to refresh it all since you'll be 'right there'. Your choice.

Hey Allowencer,

Did you receive an email from the lawyer today? I received an email from him in response to the email I had originally sent him Feb 18th of this year, asking me if I was interested in being a named class representative in the class action lawsuit. I'm in the middle of replying and letting him know I am unable, since he's mainly seeking NY representative and also since my timing tensioner has not failed yet.

To anyone reading this who has had their timing tensioner fail, you may want to contact him.
https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wo...ain-tensioner/
Thomas P. Sobran
7 Evergreen Lane
Hingham, MA 02043
Tel: (781) 741-6075
Fax: (781) 741-6074
[email protected]

I did get a notice from him. I don't think I will submit myself as I have our first baby on the way and I know I couldn't [legally] be able to commit time to it. As much as I would want to, I know I couldn't (plus my wife might kill me).

[Allowencer]

Is it, absolutely, 100% necessary? No. Not unless there are wear marks and grooves in your guides currently (which you won't know until you pull it apart). The critical item is the tensioner itself for sure. My recommendation is to refresh it all since you'll be 'right there'. Your choice.

I'll quote myself on this, for those of you that don't want to replace the other guide rails, here is a perfect example of what I found on one of my guide rails (this is the primary guide rail for the balance shaft chain):


Here is a comparison between the old chain and brand new chain; showing how much the old one stretched:


I guess it all depends on what kind of 'piece of mind' you want to have with you car

[Allowencer]

To something I noted above: the oil pan has to come off to replace the oil pump's chain - this is true; however, not only does the pan have to come off, but the oil baffle (sometimes also called a windage tray) has to come out as well. This is because the pump must be removed in order to swap the oil pump's chain. There is a oil filter/screen that is on top of the oil pump; might as well replace that if you do this.

If that tray gets unbolted, it has to be replaced. The bolt holes for the mounting of the tray are basically crush washers and the whole tray is a one-time use only; it must be replaced. There is also a seal that goes between the upper oil pan assembly and the tray itself. Within the tray is a one-way drain check valve; it needs to be replaced as well. Here are part numbers for everyone:

Oil Baffle - 06H 103 138 E
Seal/Gasket - 06J 103 147
Check valve assembly - 06H 103 156
Oil pump screen/filter - 06H 115 175 A

Another note: all (19x), yes nineteen!!!, oil pan bolts are TTY; they must be replaced if you loosen them. The service manual calls to remove the cross brace, disconnect the steering, the ball joints and dropping the cradle in order to remove the oil pan. Basically all of those bolts are TTY bolts as well. I said F THAT! and improvised. How I accomplished this:

- Remove the (2x) bolts that go through each engine mount and into the engine's mount bracket. These bolts are the large ones that go literally through the mount's membrane. These bolts are also TTY's and should be replaced (2x bolts are better than the 10+ for all of the other things).
- Have an extra jack stand and jack handy. Jack the motor up (using a block of wood under the oil pan on the flat surface and not by/on the oil level sensor) as high as you can. Keep an eye out on the wiring harness on each side of the motor; I think its the driver's side where there's a connector to the transmission (mine's a MT for the record). If you want to disconnect it -great, if not, just keep an eye out so you don't stretch and break the wire. Once you have it has high as you can, put a jack stand behind the crossbrace and right under the bell housing. Ensure you have the jack stand sitting properly and slowly let the jack down. Ensure enough surface area is on the jack so that its "safe". With this method, you should have enough room to get your hands over the front sway bar and the cradle to get to all oil pan bolts and the oil pan will come out easily.

[buelldozer]

Is there a solid DIY , preferably with "ELI5" level directions, somewhere on replacing the TC, Guides, Tensioner?

Way back in post #24 there was a reference like this "I am stealing the below from A4BPG as its concise and added in my comments." but I have no idea who / where that is referring to?!

I've replaced timing chains before but mostly on SBC, never on an Audi.

[Allowencer]

That was van that posted that and he pulled that from a different forum member who posted that list.

I went a little farther, not by much, with showing pics of the areas. I basically have the presumption that most won't tackle this because of how in-depth it is. Reflecting back on that, I could provide more / detailed instructions if I could sit down and write it all out. It's not too complicated 'IF' your timing tensioner hasn't broken yet. If it breaks, you're looking at a complete tear down, like mine did, to discover what has or hasn't been damaged.

No promises on timing, but I'll see what I can do to throw those instructions together. With my current workload, my car still not together and a baby on the way, I don't have a lot of free time (partly why my car isn't back together quite yet).

[buelldozer]

Thanks for the reply.

My timing hasn't broken yet, I'm just getting the occasional P00016 code. I swapped the Cam Position Sensor at lunch today and the MIL turned off, so we'll see how that goes. Still, I'd rather get in there and sort it out before it becomes a real problem but I think I have a day or three to wait for you to flesh out your DIY. ;)

For anyone reading this later my car has 70K on it and I was NOT offered tensioner update and TC replace as part of my Stage 2 Oil Consumption rebuild. If I'd known 2 years ago what I know now I would have paid to have it done at that time.

BTW, I had an '01 Grand Prix GTP and I still miss that car!