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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    May 24 2009
    AZ Member #
    42860
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    2000 S4 Nogaro Blue, 1996 Ford Exploder
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    Richs Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

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    Hello and welcome to Audi S4 Ownership. Or perhaps you're thinking about buying that one off of craigslist that you found in NJ. Well, allow me to answer many of your upgrade questions. There are already threads about everything that breaks on these cars, and this is not another one of those.

    This is a collection of the information that I picked up during my first few months of S4 ownership and obsessive forum/internet searching and may serve as a guide for choosing what mods to make right off the bat, what is really worth it and what isn’t, as well as providing some basic budgeting information so that you don’t get yourself in TOO deep. All prices are for parts only, and do NOT include the cost of labor.

    First of all, if you own this car, you’re already in deep. Got a great deal on it, you say? TOO BAD. You didn’t get a better deal on it than I did (I got it for free) , and it has still cost me nearly $10,000 in repairs and upgrades within a few months. Mine was also an example of pretty much everything that can go wrong, though. It is an expensive car to maintain, and it is
    highly recommended that you work on the car yourself as often as possible.

    ______________________

    What you should probably do:
    This is a SUPER basic quick summary. If you are unable to read the rest of this post, this section will be a good start.

    First thing is to find everything that's broken. After you've spent your entire mod budget on fixing the car that you just purchased or otherwise acquired, you can move on to mods

    If you have $6,000 or so laying around, just go stage 3 with K04s (~420whp). If you have $8,000ish laying around, go RS6s, Tial 605s, GT2554s, or GT2560s (~500whp), if you have a LOT more than that (I mean like $15K++ for the parts and building your motor), man up and get some big GTs or Tials: GT2560s, GT2860s, GT2871s, GT????, Tial 770s) (~OMFG whp). The 770s are probably the best choice of all of them, because they spool great and have dynod well over 600whp with proper setup. But aside from that...You could be a baller and go single turbo, but its basically entirely custom and gets expensive. It's been done and it can make probably more power than any twin setup. PM for help figuring what parts you'll need for Stage 3 power levels.

    Right off the bat:
    Note: No one is really going to be able to prove what the best, most important first mod is. A chip, suspension, or a shifter are the three best first choices, IMO.

    This is simply my opinion, but the first thing that you should do is get a JHM "solid" short throw shifter. There are other shifters that are decent (toy guy, B&M) but this is Big League Chew. Shifting the stock shifter reminds me of attempting to shift a flacid genital. Since you spend so much time with your hand on said device, you just don't want to be thinking about how it feels like a floppy wet hog. It just makes it feel more like a sports car, is a fairly easy entrance into the DIY work on this car, and isn't very expensive.

    One can argue that a chip will be the most bang for buck right off the bat, and result in the most "increased" fun, and they're probably right. GIAC and APR are the most common chips, and neither one of them is noticeably better than the other for it to matter which one you get.

    So, get a chip in there, put a silicon throttle body boot in (because your stock one will tear soon) or an APR or ARD bi-pipe, and replace the f-hose if you have one (2000s and some 2001s have them).

    Before you even do a catback, you should put a boost gauge in so you can make sure you're boosting to safe levels. Plus you can now enjoy watching the analog representation of the sweet new power that you're making.

    Next, catback + piggies. The sound alone will make you happy. Doing a catback and piggies will net you another 30+ bhp or so.

    Thrown in there randomly, or after you finish, it's time to consider things like your Diverter Valves (DVs) and your clutch/flywheel. I did my DVs before I did anything else. Throw in a DarIntake mod because its free (same with Piggies if you're a real man). You can also do Water/Meth injection for some more power/advanced timing. You will probably also kill your fuel pump, so start planning to replace it with a high performance one. DeatschWerks 300LPH is good (vast sells it), Bosch 044 (270lph) is better, but probably more than you need, and you can also do an inline fuel pump for cheaper.

    If your roads are good, you can lower the car with H&R springs (can get very low) or vogtland lowering springs. If you want to be economical with suspension, do Bilstein sport shocks and some springs. H&R for very low, vogtland for more manageable. Koni Yellow shocks are good too, and are adjustable. If you want to get real handling performance, get a coilover setup (H&R, Stasis, Vogtland, KW, or Bilstein). It was one of my my favorite mods. If you want to spend the least amount possible, but want increased handling, a rear sway bar will make a noticeable difference, and even let you oversteer.

    Tranny and motor mounts make a big difference, as well as a snub mount.

    Oh, and you almost definitely should NOT attempt to put in a blow off valve (BOV). I know, almost everyone with a sweet-ass turbo'd car like ours wants a very intimidating WHOOOOSH sound. Listen, I want it, too. But that whoosh sound is WRONG for our cars; let me explain. A Diverter Valve (DV) and a BOV both accomplish the same task: they prevent compressor surge by allowing the air between your turbo and throttle plate escape to somewhere other than back out through the turbo when your throttle closes. i.e. its a place to put the boost you just made but dont need, since your throttle is closed. Our cars use a Mass Airflow Sensor (MAF), which meters all air entering the system, which not all turbo'd cars use. A DV routes the air back into the intake when your throttle closes so that it can go through the system as it was intended to. If you were to use a BOV and dump to the atmosphere, you are removing air that has already been accounted for from the system, screwing all kinds of shit up.

    That WRX next to you (which also shouldn't have a BOV in it) is missing air that the engine was expecting by dumping it into the atmosphere, messing with the air/fuel mixture. Yes, you CAN make it work, but it is difficult, costly, and the car will most likely not run as strongly as it could with Diverter Valves.

    Now on to some more details:
    __________________________________________________ ______

    Stage 1: Chip.
    Generally 320bhp. Used: $200-$500, New or Custom: $600. Easy to find used.

    -APR: is the “smoothest” and most “like stock” in its power curve, boosting to 18 or 19psi these days, but older software will be 17-18, tapering off to 15 or 16. Generally claims 320 bhp. You know you have an APR if you can change “programs” by holding in your cruise control button for 5+ seconds while the ignition is on but the car is not running. If your CEL starts blinking after holding it for 5 seconds, you have an APR chip.

    -GIACX: is the most aggressive. Boosts to around 19-20psi now, tapering to 16-18 which is really getting out of the efficiency range of the K03 turbos. People do love this chip, though.

    -REVO: I don’t know anything about it. It’s probably similar to the APR.


    Stage 2: Chip + Catback Exhaust.
    Nets you another 7-11 bhp. $500-$1,500 for the catback

    -AWE Twin1 or Twin2: The Twin1 is a great , very aggressive sounding exhaust. Around $1,200

    -Vibrant: Also pretty aggressive sounding, very good value for the money. Not quite as much flow as the Twin1, but it does sound very good, if not a bit more tame than the Twin1. $500-$650.

    -SSAC: Cheap. Sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn’t. Since they’re so cheap, it usually works out to be cheaper to take it to a shop and have them fix it up to make it fit, but sometimes it will run you extra. Kind of luck of the draw. It’s a copy of the Twin1, but comes as a FULL TURBOBACK with NO cats, so if you need cats you’ll have to buy them from somewhere for extra. These will throw a code without cats, so you’ll need to do some fancy things with your O2 sensors like run spark plug non foulers ($5). If you have a welder and know what you’re doing, this is a no brainer because of how inexpensive it is. People are often selling the DPs or test pipes in the classifieds. $400

    -Milltek Super Dual: Much more “refined” sound. Aka a lot less loud. $1,300

    -Borla: Also quieter and more refined. $800

    Stage 2+: Chip + Catback + DownPipes (aka Chip + Turboback)
    Nets another 20-30 bhp and helps turbos spool quicker. $0-$2,000 for the downpipes/turboback. You generally don’t need 3” DPs until you have bigger turbos, but it can’t hurt.

    -Piggies: Home-made downpipes using the stock DPs: you take them off, gut the precats out, relocate the front O2 sensors or use spark plug non-foulers on them. They can net you a nice power increase on the stock turbos. You can also buy piggies from VAST for $300 or something like that, or find them used in the classifieds. $0-$300
    Link to making piggies: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231301

    -Other DPs: Tons of places make DPs. I don’t know many off the bat, but I think they’re generally all fairly similar. R.A.I, 034, and many others make some damn nice ones. Most 3” DP sets cost around $1,000-$1,500.


    Stage 3-: New Turbos without fueling/proper intercoolers. 300awhp-350awhp $2,000-$4,000

    Stage 3, 3+, 3+++++: New Turbos with proper fueling, tuning, ICs, etc. 375awhp-"smoking 996TTs" $3,000-$$HOLY F$@K

    -K04s: 375awhp-430awhp. Some make more some make less. $3,000-$7,000 +
    -RS6s/Tial 605s/GT2554s: 430-500+. They can get you 450 without much trouble on a stock block, and can get to 500whp or over with decent tuning/race fuel/meth. Anything at/near 500awhp you'll want to do rods on the engine which can be done cheaply, but can also end up costing $5,000+ when you decide to replace other things "while you're in there" when all is said and done. $5,000-$12,000

    -Big Garrett Turbo (GT)/Tial 770/Single Turbo: 500-???whp This is kind of limitless, because everything starts to get all custom in this range. With some GT kits you can get away with just rods, that’s the 500-600awhp range. After that, you better have a damn good tuner, or it’s time to build the whole engine. The engine should probably be fully built. Many do 2.8 heads, and most upgrade the valvetrain to rev higher and enjoy the powerband. This thread doesn’t need to get into big GT kits. $8,000-“the family farm.”


    End Stages.


    __________________________________________________ _________

    If you have the cash and the know-how, go stage 3 right off the bat and make it easy. Get a turboback exhaust, pick up some K04s, some Side Mount Intercoolers or a Front Mount, fueling and a tune, a new clutch (clutchmasters or southbend), and a lightweight flywheel if you feel so inclined. Parts can run you between $3,000 and $7,000 for that list. Labor is another $2k-ish.

    Many will argue that K04 days are over, and you should just skip right to RS6s or tial 605s, but the reality is that it is definitely a lot more money to do that. You end up spending a bit more money everywhere, because a "go big or go home" attitude takes over. If you can scrape up a few thousand extra dollars, I would definitely go for bigger turbos, but a strong K04 car will still probably be faster than any car you've been in previously. Strong K04 cars can still do the 0-60mph in <4 seconds, and have done 1/4 miles in <12 seconds. Fastest that I know of is 11.1, but that was totally decked out.


    Basic Parts list:
    K04s: $2200
    SMIC: $1200-$1,500
    Fueling: Pieced together: <$1000, packaged: $2200, but a tune usually comes with the fueling package (VAST/EPL/etc)
    Tune: $600-$$$$$$$$

    Now, here’s where things start to get messy. You should probably do your motor mounts while you’re in there. You need to upgrade your fuel pump, do a timing belt change and other maintenance too. Things add up very quickly. Lets move on.
    ____________________________

    Intercoolers: They keep your engine cooler, prevent it from exploding, allow you to run some more boost, and are generally a necessary upgrade when you do turbos. If not, you’re wasting your money blowing hot air into the engine.

    Quick summary: AWE or ER Side Mount intercoolers or similar are always a good bet (ERs are the biggest, RS4s/cxRacing are the lamest). FMIC is significantly less expensive ($300-$600) than SMICs but comes at another cost. Slightly slower spooling from the extra piping, you have to cut up your front bumper and bumper supports to make it fit, and you typically have to give up your fog lights. They do cool the car damn well, though.


    Side Mount
    : Generally fit in stock location and look stock. Recommended for those of you in SoCal.

    -AWE SMICs: A nice happy middleground. PROVEN to work extremely well, fits in the stock location with no modifications, yadda yadda. $1200-$1,400

    -ER SMIC: The biggest and baddest SMIC. Huge. May require some trimming to fit. Still fits in stock location. I believe that if you have an RS4 bumper it’s a fit issue, but with the stock bumper it fits. Also, they come with carbon fiber shrouds that look pretty BA. $1,300-$1,500

    -RS4 SMICs: Why waste your time and money? Expensive (don’t remember how much) and don’t cool as well as the AWE, ER, or the FMICs out there. Unless you’re only doing K04s or keeping K03s and came into them very cheaply, pass.

    -cxRacing SMICs: lol.


    Front Mount:

    -JHM/VAST: The JHM FMIC is actually an ebay core, and JHM has gone through the trouble of making you some nice mandrel bent piping. Extremely nice pricing compared to the SMICs, and have the same or better cooling properties but the FMIC comes at another cost. Slightly slower spooling from the extra piping, you have to cut up your front bumper and bumper supports to make it fit, and you typically have to give up your fog lights. They do cool the car damn well, though. $400-$600.

    -cxRacing SMIC: lol. $350

    Suspension: Coilovers and/or Sway Bars

    Summary: If you want to keep up with most decent cars you'll want to do suspension for sure, though I've survived a while without it, it bugs me more and more every day. H&R coilovers are good and stiff for the money. stasis streetsports are good (they use koni shocks) but are on the softer side (still an infinite improvement over stock.) For something tighter, vogtland GTs and stasis tracksports are good.

    hotchki (h-sport) rear sway bar also makes a huge improvement. You can do a front sway bar, but the front is already pretty majorly beefy.
    Coilovers: What’s the difference between Coilovers and Shocks/Springs? Not much, other than the fact that a coilover is a shock/spring set that was engineered to work perfectly together. That means no resonant oscillations etc, etc. A shock and spring combo that’s not a coilover kit, was NOT designed to work together and may start to act stupid at high speeds. Most of them are probably totally fine, but suspension is something that I don’t like to mess around with.


    -Basic “Street” Coilovers: H&R, stasis streetsports, some Vogtlands, KW V1. If you just want a firmer ride and to reduce brake drive/launch squat, this is for you. Handling will be way, way better than stock. I know that at least the streetsports are adjustable (dampener adjustable, so you can adjust the firmness and the height a bit) but they have to be off of the car. $1,000-$1,500.

    -Street/AutoX/Light track use: stasis tracksports, Vogtland GTs, KW V2. Run from $1,500-$2,000. Firmer, kills more body roll, generally better. Can be rough on crappy roads. Here’s to you, Boston.

    -Track use: Bilstein PS9, statsis motorsport, vogltand something or other, and KW V3. It should be apparent which suspension is designed for the track. They’ll be the ones priced epicly high. Not recommended for street use, though I’m sure some of you would be happy to have them on the street. I would. Can definitely be “jarring.” $2,500-$3,000+


    Sway Bars: Reduce body roll, improve handling

    -Hotchki: Is the best. 22mm rear, 35mm front. Comes with the links and all that jazz. That’s good because sometimes the linkages get all screwed up on the originals and need to be replaced. Rear: $380. BOTH: $480

    -H&R: 21mm rear, 32 mm front. Doesn’t come with the linkages. Perfectly fine otherwise. $220 rear, $280 front.

    -Neuspeed: 19 mm rear. Comes with the linkages/subframe stuff just like the h-sport one does. $280.

    Stopping:

    Big brakes are great, but most can survive without them. If you're tracking the car you'll want them. You can simply pick up some of Adams Famous Rotors (search the forum) for his drilled/dimpled/slotted rotors ($350 for all 4) which look great and do improve braking and reduce brake fade compared to stock. Some hawk pads will help too. Hawk HPS for street use/some autoX, HP+ the track. HP+ have a minimum temperature and don’t bite hard until warmed up, so be cautious using them on the street. There are plenty of other pad brands, but a lot of us use Hawk.

    For Big brakes, people do cayenne brakes. There's the standard Brembo and stoptech, as well as Alcon (by Stasis), AP Racing. The Cayenne/B7 kit that JHM sells is a particularly good bang for buck right now, but things change regularly. BBK are $1,200-$3,000


    Misc:

    The very first god damned thing that you should do is get the JHM "solid" short throw shifter. Best mod I've done. The stock shifter is so sloppy it’s a disgrace, and all of your fiends will make fun of you for having a big rubber mallet for a shifter. Put in the JHM shifter. There, now you are the Big Leage Chew, and everyone else is just the baby school. Remember that.

    Boost gauge: is super important if you're running higher than stock boost. I really like the Podi for its location, color match, and it's less than the AWE boost gauge. The AWE is great if you like the location and don’t mind spending more on the gauge. Most people agree that the AWE is the most “stock” looking, but I don’t really think any car looks stock with a big ole boost guage in one of the AC vents, but that's just me. Both are great choices. EFU also makes a "boost gauge" that works using your stock Driver Information Screen (DIS). I've never seen one in use, but it seems pretty cool.


    Drive Train Stabilizer (DTS)
    : Hooks up to your drive train to make that shit more stable. It is what it says, and it does a good job. Slightly reduces your car’s clearance, but it’s very, very worth it. AWE, ASP, and JHM all make 'em. $250-$350


    Diverter Valve: They go bad on high mileage cars, and they’re easy to replace yourself so just do it.

    -Bailey: Super high quality. $150 each.
    -Forge DVs:
    -OEM DV out of the Audi TT: The 710N or the 110 is a very nice upgrade over stock, that many people use with great success.


    Throttle Body Boot: The little rubber stock TBB tears under high boost, and sometimes under normal boost. Samco makes good ones, or you can get the eBay “Autobahn 88” ones which require a bit of trimming to make them fit, but I know folks using them and it’s not so bad. Same quality, just the fit isn’t as good.


    F-Hose: Same as the TBB, but not all S4s have them. Check.

    Motor Mounts/trans mounts and Snub mount: 034, APR, or STERN. These vastly improve feel of the car. It's part of the overall effort to "tighten everything up." $300ish

    Sport Pedals: The stock accelerator pedal is recessed enough that heel-toe downshifting can be difficult/impossible. Some nice sport pedals can help mitigate that problem. There's plenty out there, including AWE, SRP and others. I'm a big fan of the SRP ones, which also come with an AZ discount.
    See: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...&highlight=srp

    Clutch: If you’re going stage 2 or 2+, and even stage 1, you’ll probably have to upgrade your clutch eventually or immediately. Avoid the RS4 clutch. Mine slips when I launch. Lame. Go with clutchmasters or southbend. If you go stage 3, get the kevlar or ceramic versions of either of those brands. If you do well over 500whp, you'll want a twin disc. Kevlar is a minimum requirement for stage 3, but it has its drawbacks. Many people also used the VAST Stage 3 clutch, which is ceramic, with no trouble. $600-$1000, then over $2,000 for dual clutch.


    Lightweight flywheel: Spin up faster, but lose some momentum for your launch. It’s a tradeoff. It also makes quick shifting more pleasant as RPMs drop faster. Yes it’s normal to hear chatter with a LWFW.. $400-$600.


    Water/Methanol Injection: Running a Water/Meth injection is a great way to gain some HP (by increasing your octane from 91 or 93 to closer to 100) and lowering your IATs (incoming air temperatures). This helps reduce the risk of detonation presenting 1 of 2 scenarios. You can gain a bit of power and be happy with your new, safer setup, or you can use the higher octane and lower temps to advance your timing and get more power out of it. It all comes down to your tune. DevilSown and aquamist make good kits, and VAST sells a DevilSown. If you’re on K04s, the 190cc injectors are fine. If you’re on bigger snails, get bigger nozzles.

    DarIntake: The "DarIntake" mod basically involves cutting a hole into the bottom of your airbox, effectively creating a cold air intake. This nets you around 5-10 hp, and should be supplemented with either an AWE S-flow or a nicer panel filter.
    link to mod + custom S flow mod: http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=1491134


    Good tuners: VAST, EPL, SSP, APR, AWE. Most people go with VAST, EPL, or SSP.

    Just to make things clear, you don't have much to worry about on this drivetrain until you're very high powered or if you're driving it wrong. Slip the clutch if you launch, and all will be well. Block is good for 500whp, tranny is good for a lot more if you know how to shift.

    __________________________________________________ ____________

    Stage 3 more in-depth parts/costs:

    Here is my parts list for going RS6. These reflect prices that I was able to get after a lot of hunting and dealmaking and what have you.


    RS6 Turbos $ 3,200.00
    Flanges
    Gasket
    Hardware Kit
    VAST Inlets $ 199.00
    VAST Fueling Kit $ 2,380.00
    Hitachi maf wiring, 90mm MAF sensor, RS4-Hitachi MAF housing
    Updated green coolant temp sender w/o-ring/clip
    N75 valve
    Colder Spark Plygs
    Fuel rail hardware
    RS4 airbox modified for more flow
    RS4 accordian hose w/clamps and
    Siemens 630cc/min fuel injectors
    AWE SMIC $ 1,075.00
    Rostin Rod Set $ 1,250.00
    034 Coated Rod Bearings
    034 Coated Main Bearings
    Electronic Fan Kit $ 195.00
    CluchMasters FX400 $ 700.00
    034 Engine Mounts $ 300.00


    Links to the vendors that sell things that I've mentioned here:

    JHM: http://www.jhmotorsports.com/
    VAST: http://vastperformance.com/index.php
    034: http://www.034motorsport.com/
    PureMS: http://www.purems.com/products/index.php
    SuperiorHP: http://www.superiorhp.com/catalog/index.php
    AWE: http://www.awe-tuning.com/
    RAI: http://www.raimotorsport.com/
    ECS: http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_S4--2.7T/

    Very good resources to check before you post a question.

    Everything:
    http://www.s4biturbo.com/
    http://www.vaglinks.com/VAGLinks.asp
    http://homepage.mac.com/edyjun1/S4/index.htm
    http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Main_Page
    http://www.nogaroblue.com/8638/8762.html
    http://www.infobarrel.com/Audi_S4_(B5)

    Links to all of these links and more in one thread:
    http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=13260897

    Info on Suspension:
    http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

    Info on Wheels:
    http://sanders-stuff.com/Cars/S4_Wheels/s4_wheels.html
    http://www.s4wheelgallery.com/

    Exhaust System Info/Theory:
    http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng28.shtml

    DIY info outside Audizine:
    http://www.audidiy.com/b5s4.html
    http://www.audiworld.com/tech/ext.html

    Specs:
    http://www.audiworld.com/model/s4/01/specs.shtml

    OEM Parts Links:
    http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=1900084


    Good luck...
    Last edited by shorterthanrich; 01-09-2012 at 08:52 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Three Rings ForceFed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 30 2008
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    minnesota

    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    excellent info. well played sir, well played
    01 Silver s4. BASIC BITCH
    04 Ultra Sport black on black 1.8t 6spd Avant
    00 s4 6spd dp's, magnaflow twin 2.25in,k04, j-fonz ,pss9's,hotchkiss sways,19vmrSOLD
    sold98 a4 1.8t quattro 5spd, some mods...GT2860elim,unitronics tune, 415cc injectors(green top), 3in vr6 maf, carbonio intake,2.5in exhaust, bilstien pss9's, 18in OZs, EVOMS intercooler 2.5in piping ect..
    sold91 ford sho white on black, modded

  3. #3
    Senior Member Three Rings
    Join Date
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    2001.5 S4 Pearl white with white interior 6 speed.
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs


  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings Trigger Happy's Avatar
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    Jun 17 2008
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    2K S4
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Great write-up. I vote for sticky. and +rep for you sir
    "Clearly, a liger is not as practical as a Katana. S4s can't carry ligers. fucking 500lb cat in my backseat using my alcantara as a scratch post for its HUGE FUCKING CLAWS? I dont' think so bro"

    Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings BITRBO's Avatar
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    Mr. Worl-Wye

    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    holy *isht dude... Got some free time there? Nice summary though, so I vote STICKY too!
    '13 C63 AMG -
    '14 Tiguan - sold
    '09 JSW - sold
    '04 GTI - sold
    '01 S4 - sold

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Three Rings zx6r1033's Avatar
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    Jul 27 2009
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    2001 S4, 1999 A4 2.8l, 2001 A4 1.8T, 2003 Passat W8, 1994 Audi 90Q
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Good info... but one question. With the announcement of the Tial 605 kit being sold for $5500 (give or take), why is everyone still recommending stage 3? Cost for power, it seems illogical.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 24 2009
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    2000 S4 Nogaro Blue, 1996 Ford Exploder
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by zx6r1033 View Post
    Good info... but one question. With the announcement of the Tial 605 kit being sold for $5500 (give or take), why is everyone still recommending stage 3? Cost for power, it seems illogical.
    Stage 3, 4, 5, whatever. I meant doing bigger turbos. I should be more clear about that - I'll edit.

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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by ForceFed View Post
    excellent info. well played sir, well played
    Quote Originally Posted by pearlwhite View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Happy View Post
    Great write-up. I vote for sticky. and +rep for you sir
    Quote Originally Posted by BITRBO View Post
    holy *isht dude... Got some free time there? Nice summary though, so I vote STICKY too!
    Thanks guys. I figured that it's time that I gave back to the community, even if it's just a little bit. This car has seriously been one of the the only things I've cared about since I've gotten it, and I would be so much less into it if it weren't for AZ. Every time something's broken, or I want to do an upgrade, I've gotten help/found the answer here on AZ.

    It's just difficult to find all of the information out there when you start with zero knowledge. You can definitely find everything if you search, but it takes forever when you're planning big things for the car.

    I also had absolutely nothing to do today at work.
    Last edited by shorterthanrich; 10-15-2009 at 11:53 AM.

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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings NYEuroTuner's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Well written, + Rep for you
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  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings infinkc's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    good job, should add it to the wiki. Sticky for sure.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings S4_NE's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    nice work,
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Two Rings rsxsty1e's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    very nice write-up!

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Nice, thanks guys. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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    Veteran Member Four Rings 01audia4's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    You are GOD!!! I know my question made you want to write this thread :)
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    Veteran Member Four Rings NYEuroTuner's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by shorterthanrich View Post
    Nice, thanks guys. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
    Now do one for the VR6 swap.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings wdbdy2000s4's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by zx6r1033 View Post
    Good info... but one question. With the announcement of the Tial 605 kit being sold for $5500 (give or take), why is everyone still recommending stage 3? Cost for power, it seems illogical.
    it's 5600
    plus clutch/flywheel: 800-1400
    plus intercoolers: 500-1200

    k04s are still going to be cheaper and it's plenty of power for some people.
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  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings DannyDeez's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Awesome thread! + Rep.
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  18. #18
    Veteran Member Three Rings FlaS4's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    I would add some links to the varies parts and tuner websites (JHM, Vast, AWE, 034, etc...) Also add a link to the forum search window, that would help direct people. Also mention that one of the first things to get is a VAG com. To develop the help guide more you could also link varies threads discussions about the things mentioned (discussion on coilovers, RS6 vs. 605 vs. KO4's, 3" vs. 2.5" dp's, cat-back talk, ER vs. AWE IC, clutches and the threshold of building the engine/doing rods, and varies other topics).

  19. #19
    Senior Member Three Rings epyx's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Great info! Bored at work much?

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings KNaudi's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    dude....nice, for all noobs, I will link them here instead of being a complete douche.
    My WTB List:
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  21. #21
    Registered Member Two Rings
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    thanks alot i will be buying a s4 this weekend and this write up is perfect a++ answered most of my questions immediately

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by FlaS4 View Post
    I would add some links to the varies parts and tuner websites (JHM, Vast, AWE, 034, etc...) Also add a link to the forum search window, that would help direct people. Also mention that one of the first things to get is a VAG com. To develop the help guide more you could also link varies threads discussions about the things mentioned (discussion on coilovers, RS6 vs. 605 vs. KO4's, 3" vs. 2.5" dp's, cat-back talk, ER vs. AWE IC, clutches and the threshold of building the engine/doing rods, and varies other topics).
    Oh yeah I meant to put the vag-com in there. Gooood points.

    I want to ad links, but I'm concerned about adding links to products. Hyperlinks change, and I don't want to have a bunch of dead links in there eventually. Maybe I could just include links to major vendors' websites.

    Links to discussion threads I could probably include as an appendix of sorts. It wont always be relevant because the "need to know" is already in there, but information and knowledge is good. That'll take a bit of extra time though as I gather all of the links.

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  23. #23
    Veteran Member Three Rings DaveS4's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Great job so far, +rep for you! I can see this getting much, much bigger.

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  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings KNaudi's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    another thing, I know you are hot on the JHM shifter and you rep it hard. I agree its great and all, but there are probably things that are a better "first mod" for a completely stock car (suspension or chip come to mind). I don't disagree with you necessarily, but you push noobs hard towards it when it may not be the best choice.
    My WTB List:
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    -Sport (all black) ash tray cover


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  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by KNaudi View Post
    dude....nice, for all noobs, I will link them here instead of being a complete douche.
    LOL I decided this was necessary after that one kid last week that made like 17 threads in 3 seconds "what suspension should I buy?" "what chip should I buy?" etc. I mean he really posted every annoying question possible...and it seemed like it happened faster than AZ physically allows you to post.

    You were there. You were PISSED, lol, I thought you were going to lose your mind. Your responses were cracking me up.

    Quote Originally Posted by KNaudi View Post
    dude, are you for fuckin serious right now? search before you make ONE more thread..... I beg you, please!

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  26. #26
    Veteran Member Three Rings zx6r1033's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    I'd rep you if I could. lol. I have to spread it around first.

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Three Rings FlaS4's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by shorterthanrich View Post
    Oh yeah I meant to put the vag-com in there. Gooood points.

    I want to ad links, but I'm concerned about adding links to products. Hyperlinks change, and I don't want to have a bunch of dead links in there eventually. Maybe I could just include links to major vendors' websites.

    Links to discussion threads I could probably include as an appendix of sorts. It wont always be relevant because the "need to know" is already in there, but information and knowledge is good. That'll take a bit of extra time though as I gather all of the links.
    Links to just the vendor websites would be succficient I think.

    Just after you mention some topics like chips, you can link a thread discussing the varies chips out there and what will do what to your car. Just an example. There is an over abundance of info on here that has help me many times. Never had to post too much regarding things I just couldn't simply search (but noobs don't know that!).

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings KNaudi's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by shorterthanrich View Post
    LOL I decided this was necessary after that one kid last week that made like 17 threads in 3 seconds "what suspension should I buy?" "what chip should I buy?" etc. I mean he really posted every annoying question possible...and it seemed like it happened faster than AZ physically allows you to post.

    You were there. You were PISSED, lol, I thought you were going to lose your mind. Your responses were cracking me up.
    well, rightfully so. the guy thought we all sat at our computers and said "oh look, let me help out a guy that doesn't want to put forth any effort what so ever into research a car he just bought".
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  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by KNaudi View Post
    another thing, I know you are hot on the JHM shifter and you rep it hard. I agree its great and all, but there are probably things that are a better "first mod" for a completely stock car (suspension or chip come to mind). I don't disagree with you necessarily, but you push noobs hard towards it when it may not be the best choice.
    I dunno man...the stock shifter is just like...shifting with a flacid cock. Why would you want to put your hand on a flacid cock during game time? You wouldn't, would you? It's exactly like that. It's exactly like putting your hand on a wimpy, miserable, flacid dick, wiggling it around, and hoping that the audi gods understand that you want to shift into second gear with some mo' fuckin giddyup.

    Ahem. I really, really, really disliked the stock shifter.

    edit: I did edit it to make it clear that it is my opinion that you change that first, but it is reasonable to argue for other things.

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  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings wdbdy2000s4's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    ^ so you prefer grabbing a hard cock?
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  31. #31
    Veteran Member Four Rings KNaudi's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    I have the JHM and love it *almost* as much as you do but there are definitely better bang for the buck mods out there.
    My WTB List:
    -Sport (all black) shift surround for 6MT
    -Sport (all black) ash tray cover


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  32. #32
    Veteran Member Three Rings zx6r1033's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by shorterthanrich View Post
    I dunno man...the stock shifter is just like...shifting with a flacid cock. Why would you want to put your hand on a flacid cock during game time? You wouldn't, would you? It's exactly like that. It's exactly like putting your hand on a wimpy, miserable, flacid dick, wiggling it around, and hoping that the audi gods understand that you want to shift into second gear with some mo' fuckin giddyup.

    Ahem. I really, really, really disliked the stock shifter.

    edit: I did edit it to make it clear that it is my opinion that you change that first, but it is reasonable to argue for other things.

    lol I have no problems with mine. Works just fine for me.

  33. #33
    Veteran Member Three Rings Satummoo's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    I was thinking about adding some info. The faq in here is pretty bad. Its taken months of just random searching to even FIND OUT about certain upgrades that I would have propboly started a new thread to find out.

    Thanks for making it easy so I know what to search for

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Quote Originally Posted by wdbdy2000s4 View Post
    ^ so you prefer grabbing a hard cock?
    Saw that coming. The thought of a flacid dick in ones hands is unsettling. Squishy strange things don't feel nice. Yeah yeah boner jokes, etc, but you get the point

    Quote Originally Posted by KNaudi View Post
    I have the JHM and love it *almost* as much as you do but there are definitely better bang for the buck mods out there.
    I agree there are better bang/buck, (chip), but to me it just doesnt feel like a sports car with the stock shifter. I made some edits up top anywho.

    Quote Originally Posted by zx6r1033 View Post
    lol I have no problems with mine. Works just fine for me.
    Flacid dick. In your hands. Just sayin.

    Haha nah man I'm just playin. You guys made a good point that it's subjective so I made that more clear up top. The stock one just really bugged me, but my stock suspension makes some folks want to blow chunks, so I understand (vogtland GTs going in this weekend I hope)

    Quote Originally Posted by Satummoo View Post
    I was thinking about adding some info. The faq in here is pretty bad. Its taken months of just random searching to even FIND OUT about certain upgrades that I would have propboly started a new thread to find out.

    Thanks for making it easy so I know what to search for
    My pleasure. The FAQ is alright, just not quite for this specific purpose.

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  35. #35
    Veteran Member Three Rings ZMEY's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    wow man , you must have a lot of free time on your hands. regardless, great info, and hopefully this will elimintae a lot of uneccessary threads.

  36. #36
    Senior Member Two Rings GaroBlu's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    You deserve a golden star
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  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings Slave IV's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Depends on how you want to go about your modding...I agree that it's a good idea to go stage 3 off the bat if you know you will someday and your car is already in good condition. Mainly because you will probably end up spending Stage 3 money anyway after a couple years of maintaining the car. If you don't, then to me the little things that make the car feel "right" are most important to do first. Those being things like the JHM shifter (if you also can not stand the stock one), pedals, rear sway bar and tranny/engine mounts all make a huge difference in how the car feels to drive. And since I love driving, it makes sense to do those things first. Stage 1 and 2 are pointless to me because I know I'm going to upgrade the turbos someday and the car is plenty fast in stock form anyway. I'd do the things I mentioned above and also take care of known reliability issues like the DV's and TBB. A coilover setup is also a good idea but I would recommend doing a lot of research and getting the right one first and only one time when you need it. Lots of people just want to have a lowered look and spend money on different setups that mostly suck instead of just doing it right once. Finally, always make sure your tires and brakes are up to par with whatever other performance upgrades you do first. It's just silly to add a lot of power and not have the grip or ability to stop reliably. Great post overall and if anything else, I'd just add that ASP has a lot of good products that you should know about since you're out East...cheaper but basically same DTS as AWE for example. Also the EFU boost gauge for people who want their interior to look OEM/clean....

    FYI, my car is basically stock powerwise but I am never passed by anyone unless I let them (or I'm purposely testing my car's straight line acceleration against a car that is clearly more powerful). I have H-Sport sway bars with only the rear installed on stiff setting (front to go in w/ C/O's), Upgraded OEM replacement brakes (DBA slotted rotors, G-Stop SS lines, Hawk HPS pads, Motul fluid), 710N's, APR Bi-Pipe, JHM SS, Autovation pedals, RS4 shift knob, ASP street series tranny/differential/DTS, 034 Snub and Stern motor mounts waiting to go in, Southbend Stage 3 OFE clutch and that's about it. Oh, I have ceramic tint on all glass including windshield to protect from heat and prying eyes. Car feels completely different (better) than stock and as I said, my car hangs with everything I've gone up against so far, especially on twisty roads. This leads to one of the most important mods...

    Driving School.

    I'll leave it at that for now.

  38. #38
    Veteran Member Four Rings shorterthanrich's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Started to ad links. Feel free to send me your favorite informational resources for modding.

    I'd love to do a thread on all the shit that breaks/where to get it to replace it, also. There are some that cover it already, though, so if I did one it would have to be VERY comprehensive.

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  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings haus4's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    Does anybody know where I can get gt35's for my car??? I want uber powa.



    Nice write up. didnt read all of it, but please make the title. GT-S4 WITH HOT GIRL PICS

    So all the idiots go there first and read it, then realize what it is and stop asking stupid questions.

  40. #40
    Veteran Member Three Rings AUDILUX's Avatar
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    Re: Rich’s Quick Reference Upgrade/Mod Guide for n00bs

    STICKY THIS
    My Garage: 4 door, AWD, twin-turbo Germans -
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