Motul 8100 X-Cess Analysis

[imnuts]

Got a sample of my oil and sent it off to Blackstone for analysis to see if I'm ok with my OCI, or if I should shorten it. Results were good from what they saw, and glad that the high mileage isn't causing any issues with my car I don't think I'll go with their recommendation of 11k miles between oil changes, will stick to 9.5-10k mile range. Now to wait for everyone to say I should be doing a 5k OCI...

[bedes]

cant see the report

[imnuts]

cant see the report

Should be working now. Thanks for letting me know to cause it was showing up here

[RSicks]

imnuts, did you do the standard test from Blackstone? I was thinking about doing this as well.

[old guy]

Got a sample of my oil and sent it off to Blackstone for analysis to see if I'm ok with my OCI, or if I should shorten it. Now to wait for everyone to say I should be doing a 5k OCI...

Nothing wrong with a 10K OCI with synthetic oil. Hell, Porsche recommends a 20K OCI with Mobil 0w-40. My Mercedes 230K didn't even have a dip stick and it used an algorithm based on driving habits to recommend the OCI. Many times it went over 15k before recommending a change. When I traded the car for the CC VR6 it had close to 250K miles and still ran as strong as it did when new. I maybe added 3 or 4 quarts of oil the whole time I owned the car.

Personally I change the VR6 at 10K OCI's and the 1.8T at 5K OCI's. If I had a 3.0 I would definitely be going with a 10K OCI. With the 1.8T I worry a little about the elevated oil temperatures from the turbo so I choose to change the oil a little more frequently.

[imnuts]

imnuts, did you do the standard test from Blackstone? I was thinking about doing this as well.

I got the standard test with TBN analysis to see how it was holding up.

Nothing wrong with a 10K OCI with synthetic oil. Hell, Porsche recommends a 20K OCI with Mobil 0w-40. My Mercedes 230K didn't even have a dip stick and it used an algorithm based on driving habits to recommend the OCI. Many times it went over 15k before recommending a change. When I traded the car for the CC VR6 it had close to 250K miles and still ran as strong as it did when new. I maybe added 3 or 4 quarts of oil the whole time I owned the car.

Personally I change the VR6 at 10K OCI's and the 1.8T at 5K OCI's. If I had a 3.0 I would definitely be going with a 10K OCI. With the 1.8T I worry a little about the elevated oil temperatures from the turbo so I choose to change the oil a little more frequently.

I've seen several people say otherwise, but I never saw an issue with going for 10k miles. Figured I would get it tested to see how it was doing. I agree with the shorter OCI for the turbo as well, and if I did more city driving, or a lot of hard driving, I would probably do a shorter interval as well. Just wanted to help dispel peoples ideas that longer OCIs are bad.

[EinSchnellAudi]

Glad to see that the report came out clean.

( I will continue to do 5k intervals for the sole reason that oil is cheap and motors are not. )

[Bische]

In sweden oil + filter costs $100 and up

Good thing I only put about 5k per year on my audi

[imnuts]

Glad to see that the report came out clean.

( I will continue to do 5k intervals for the sole reason that oil is cheap and motors are not. )

If I had the time and space to do it myself, I would probably change it every 3 months, regardless of miles. But, I don't usually have time to do it myself, or a place to really change it out, so I'll stick with 10k intervals until then. The results are somewhat reassuring though that nothing is wrong with my current intervals.

[AudiA4_20T]

If I had a 3.0 I would definitely be going with a 10K OCI.

Idk I've seen those worn cam lobe issues, I'd be weary of that

[diagnosticator]

This result is only relevant for your specific engine and operating conditions. Without a current oil analysis report, the results using the same OCI and oil, cannot be assumed for different individual engines and operating conditions, unique for each car. This is the justification for 5,000 mile OCIs. For worst case city winter short trip driving, 5,000 miles OCI may be to long also.

[old guy]

Idk I've seen those worn cam lobe issues, I'd be weary of that

I hear you Clint but I believe the cam lobe wear issue was primarily limited to the 2002 3.0 motors. There has been a lot of speculation that the cams installed in those motors weren't properly heat treated. I believe there is even a TSB on the issue. If this is indeed the case for the 2002's a shorter OCI isn't going to really make a difference.

[imnuts]

I hear you Clint but I believe the cam lobe wear issue was primarily limited to the 2002 3.0 motors. There has been a lot of speculation that the cams installed in those motors weren't properly heat treated. I believe there is even a TSB on the issue. If this is indeed the case for the 2002's a shorter OCI isn't going to really make a difference.

I saw one or two people mention abnormal wear on 2003s, but nothing after that. I'm thinking it was 2002 and early 2003s. I'm at 150k miles, and I've listened to the videos that people have posted with the issue, and I have no abnormal ticking like those affected with cam wear.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

[EErie B6]

Wow, wear looks great. TBN is getting down there though (Blackstone says anything 1.0 > is ok) not sure i would be brave enough to go their recommended 11k, but 10k does not seem unreasonable.

I wish more people would post reports.

[EinSchnellAudi]

If I had the time and space to do it myself, I would probably change it every 3 months, regardless of miles. But, I don't usually have time to do it myself, or a place to really change it out, so I'll stick with 10k intervals until then. The results are somewhat reassuring though that nothing is wrong with my current intervals.

Can't argue with the report, if 10k works for you, then by all means continue to do it.

[MikeWire]

With report results like that, I would go to 11K - it's only 2K more miles. Nothing magical will happen in that time, and the oil wear would be similar, maybe the TBN would be slightly lower or right around 1.0.

Do you know the virgin TBN level of the oil?

[imnuts]

With report results like that, I would go to 11K - it's only 2K more miles. Nothing magical will happen in that time, and the oil wear would be similar, maybe the TBN would be slightly lower or right around 1.0.

Do you know the virgin TBN level of the oil?

No, I don't have that. I'm probably just going to stick with a 9-10k OCI. It's easier to keep track of when I need service. I'll try to keep getting the analysis done, though I'll probably skip the TBN next time. I got it this time just to make sure it wasn't 0, or close to it, and the oil still had some life in it.

[Packy]

With report results like that, I would go to 11K - it's only 2K more miles. Nothing magical will happen in that time, and the oil wear would be similar, maybe the TBN would be slightly lower or right around 1.0.

Do you know the virgin TBN level of the oil?

Usually around 8-12 depending on the exact oil. Pull up the MSDS and it should say. a TBN of 1 isn't much reserve left.

[diagnosticator]

Usually around 8-12 depending on the exact oil. Pull up the MSDS and it should say. a TBN of 1 isn't much reserve left.

I agree. Even if the TBN is still at an active level with extended OCI, the suspended/dissolved water and other contaminants, can become excessively high resulting in sludge, typically if the car is mostly operated in colder climates for short trips. Lube oil sludge can occur even if the lubricating qualities of the oil are still providing good lubrication. Engine damage from sludge deposits results from lack of oil pressure, not from the lube oil not lubricating due to contamination. The B6 A4s are capable of having the OCI variable, according to the thermal load on the oil, and other parameters relevant for predicting lube oil condition for continued use. However our A4s are setup with fixed mileage OCI in the instrument cluster. A variable extended OCI can be setup in the IC also. Audi doesn't/did not utilize the extended variable OCI here in NA, because of the 50K miles free maintenance provided on new cars. Audi did not specify 10K miles OCI because that is the best technically based OCI, it is an arbitrary mileage specification as an expense cutting decision for new car 50K free maintenance costs. I believe the number of engines that experienced 10K miles OCI related sludging within the Original Factory Warranty period, was very low compared to the increased new car sales promoted by the free 50K miles maintenance Audi provided. Additionally, Audi did not reduce the fixed 10K miles OCI when oil sludging problems occurred, because even after agreeing to an extended sludge warranty, many owners could not adequately document the required lube oil changes to obtain warranty for sludge damage, limiting Audi's exposure to engine repair costs.
Most lube oil analysis does not measure contamination. Analysis typically only shows wear metals, additive package concentration levels, dissolved water and fuel dilution percentages and if there is any coolant dissolved in the oil. There is no indication of how much sludge producing contamination there is from heavier fuel fraction residues and related oxidation chemical changes in the oil.

[CyberPMG]

To the OP: congrats on the report! I'm assuming you're using synthetic oil for your oil changes? If so, then I can understand the longer intervals between oil changes.

My '02 A4 had the 3.0 V6 and followed Audi's maintenance program (with the oil changes being done by the dealer as a part of the free maintenance package up to 50k miles). I'm pretty sure they didn't use synthetic oil for my oil changes. Back then Audi only recommended synthetic oil for the 1.8T. Needless to say, that car only lasted until 86k miles before the engine gave out.

Hope you have many more thousands of miles in yours!

[imnuts]

To the OP: congrats on the report! I'm assuming you're using synthetic oil for your oil changes? If so, then I can understand the longer intervals between oil changes.

My '02 A4 had the 3.0 V6 and followed Audi's maintenance program (with the oil changes being done by the dealer as a part of the free maintenance package up to 50k miles). I'm pretty sure they didn't use synthetic oil for my oil changes. Back then Audi only recommended synthetic oil for the 1.8T. Needless to say, that car only lasted until 86k miles before the engine gave out.

Hope you have many more thousands of miles in yours!

Yeah, Motul 8100 X-Cess for probably 60k miles, it was dealer oil for maybe 20-30k miles after I first got it, LubroMoly for 20k, and I just put Rotella T6 in to try to clean up some stuff inside. I also drive 75%+ highway, and don't frequently push the car or run it high through the RPM range either.

For reference, I just ran BG EPR (PN 109) through after ~4400 miles, and had similar numbers, with the exception of some high metal numbers. I'm hoping that it is mainly due to running the flush through and it getting metals that were trapped in sludge/varnish. It could also be from excess wear due to my broken flywheel. I plan on getting a few more test results over the next 15k miles or so on 5k intervals just to see if it drops. I'm at 185k miles now.

[Spike00513]

Needless to say, that car only lasted until 86k miles before the engine gave out.

How did the engine go out? Pre-60k mi, I have no service records. After that, synthetic, mostly 8100 X-cess. I took off the oilpan to clean and re-seal it, and there was barely any sludge. I have only seen into the camshaft area of the engine, and underneath with the oil pan removed, and everything looked very clean. Golden. I'm hoping this is good. Currently @ 105k mi.

Not sure if I should use T6. I barely consume any oil with 8100 Xcess, but consume like .5L-1L/5k mi with T6. Maybe something is wrong with the engine, that the 8100 is masking with its thick viscosity?

I don't think it really matters which one I use, so long as I'm not using $2/L Autozone store brand dino oil changed every 15k mi...

So what is the best?
-Motul 8100 X-cess, $44/5L
-Mobil 1 0w-40 european car formula, $22ish/5qt
-Shell Rotella T6, $22ish/5qt

[xhackerekx]

Yeah, Motul 8100 X-Cess for probably 60k miles, it was dealer oil for maybe 20-30k miles after I first got it, LubroMoly for 20k, and I just put Rotella T6 in to try to clean up some stuff inside. I also drive 75%+ highway, and don't frequently push the car or run it high through the RPM range either.

For reference, I just ran BG EPR (PN 109) through after ~4400 miles, and had similar numbers, with the exception of some high metal numbers. I'm hoping that it is mainly due to running the flush through and it getting metals that were trapped in sludge/varnish. It could also be from excess wear due to my broken flywheel. I plan on getting a few more test results over the next 15k miles or so on 5k intervals just to see if it drops. I'm at 185k miles now.

u use rotella t6 before ??

[CyberPMG]

How did the engine go out?

My story: Clicky click

[junxing]

So what is the best?
-Motul 8100 X-cess, $44/5L
-Mobil 1 0w-40 european car formula, $22ish/5qt
-Shell Rotella T6, $22ish/5qt

I ran Mobil 1 0w-40 for a while and noticed some consumption, then I switched to Motul 8100 X-cess and consumption went away, but I stopped running Motul because it's pricier and I can't get it locally. Now I run T6 and it consumes oil, but not as much as Mobil 1.

[Spike00513]

My story: Clicky click

I don't think oil choice had anything to do with that. Certain 02' and 03' MY 3.0 camshafts were improperly cryo treated at the factory, if at all, resulting in the worn cam lobe problem that you had.