NASA Spec B5 A4 Race Car - Team Thread

[0000 V8]

Hello B5 A4 section. This is my FIRST post in this section. I normally fall under the B6 S4 forum and linger in the C5 allroad forum. I wanted to introduce myself and a friend who are starting a project race car/team for NASA's Western Endurance Racing Championship (WERC) and other NASA events.

I already own an S4 race car that has been hugely successful. After a half season and several events in the car, I ran into major motor trouble. I started working on doing a swap for a built motor, but the price tag started going north very quickly. At this point, Ill need to save for a while longer than expected to reach the goal I have set for the car. I didn't want to stay off the track that long and need to continue refining my skills on the tracks around here in Northern California.

So what better excuse than to buy ANOTHER Audi for a quick-turn race car project! The idea is simple: split the cost of the project multiple ways.

Drivers/Team:
Justin G. aka 0000 V8 (Me),
Derek P. (also tracks his TTRS track car)

We wanted a simple to operate A4 and found a perfect 2001 B5 for the task. Because we aren't doing any big power mods and are doing this for endurance track experience we chose a 2.8L over the 1.8T we are also familiar with. This is for several reasons:

-Classing (should put us in the Spec Miata/Spec E30 class for Endurance racing)
-Reliability
-Less tempting to spend more $ on

We got an amazing deal on the car, paid cash today, drove it home and started gutting it right away. I will be removing some racing parts from my S4 to be reused (temporarily) on the A4:

-Seats
-Harnesses
-Fire Suppression System
-Wheels and Tires
-Some Gauges
-Steering Wheel

*We will be posting pics, video, and track stuff in this thread from now on. Please check back often!

More pics to follow.

-Justin

[bhusted]

While you're gutting, you want to send me the wood trim around the hazard button?

[0000 V8]

While you're gutting, you want to send me the wood trim around the hazard button?

We broke a bunch of the trim trying to take it off gently so we threw it out, but Im willing to bet its sitting on the top of the empty dumpster in the morning. Ill go out and see if its still there and let you know.

Consider it free if its still there. The first act of good graces for the team and a shot at good luck for the next few years!

[Clun9]

Car looked really clean too...

[0000 V8]

Car looked really clean too...

It wasn't without its flaws. Ripped seat, broken trim pieces, leaking VCG's. But for a 13 year old car, its mechanically sound. We will sell off what we can to those in need.

[Muskie]

Hello B5 A4 section. This is my FIRST post in this section. I normally fall under the B6 S4 forum and linger in the C5 allroad forum. I wanted to introduce myself and a couple of friends who are starting a project race car/team for monthly NASA events, including Time Trials, the German Touring Series, and endurance races.

I already own an S4 race car that has been hugely successful. After a half season and several events in the car, I ran into major motor trouble. I started working on doing a swap for a built motor, but the price tag started going north very quickly. At this point, Ill need to save for a year longer than expected, maybe more. I didn't want to stay off the track that long and need to continue refining my skills on the track around here in Northern California.

So what better excuse than to buy ANOTHER Audi for a quick turn-race car project! The idea is simple: split the cost of the project 3 ways.

Drivers/Team:
Justin aka 0000 V8 (Me),
Taylor (my usual pit crew guy),
Anthony aka arroyobass (a NASA friend).

We wanted a simple to operate A4 and found a perfect 2001 B5 for the task. Because we aren't doing any big power mods and are doing this for track experience we chose a 2.8L over the 1.8T we are familiar with in Taylors last 3 Audis. This is for several reasons:

-Reliability
-Less tempting to spend more $ on
-More torque

We got an amazing deal on the car, paid cash today, drove it home and started gutting it right away. I will be removing some racing parts from my S4 to be reused (temporarily) on the A4:

-Seats
-Harnesses
-Fire Suppression System
-Wheels and Tires
-Some Gauges
-Steering Wheel

*We will be posting pics, video, and track stuff in this thread from now on. Please check back often!

The rest of this weekend we will be gutting more and getting it ready for the cage install. More pics to follow.

-Justin

This looks like fun. Are you staying with the 4.2 for the S4 or swapping it for a 2.0T or 2.5 5??

[$teady$upreme]

seeing what you guys did on the S4, can't wait to see this final product.

[SquiddyB6S4]

I can't like this too hard, because I'm very sad to learn that another S4 motor bit the dust on the road course. I'm beginning to think I will never be comfortable enough with mine to put her on track. However, I have to like this because this gives me pause about wanting a Miata track toy with simple/cheap V6/V8 power. I could do fun things with an old Audi something w/ quattro. I don't think I'm brave enough to bother with something else German (which I see breaking), so I'll just watch you do it

[zandrew]

I would have still went 1.8t. A simple flash would have easily had you past the 2.8 power and there really is no simple upgrades worth while for the 2.8. Since its a dedicated racecare you could have done a real hack job on some things like a turbo and made more power.

Can you swap a 1.8 into the V6s?

Looks like a fun project though.

[97B518TQM]

I am not familiar with any of the regulations and class/track requirements but if you wanted a cheap and fun track car to fill your free time with why not get something like a Miata? It's just as cheap, super light, seems to handle quite well with simple mods, and did I mention super light? I am assuming you just wanted to keep it all Audi and that's why you went with a heavy underpowered pig like this.

[0000 V8]

This looks like fun. Are you staying with the 4.2 for the S4 or swapping it for a 2.0T or 2.5 5??

5 cylinder turbo.

I can't like this too hard, because I'm very sad to learn that another S4 motor bit the dust on the road course. I'm beginning to think I will never be comfortable enough with mine to put her on track. However, I have to like this because this gives me pause about wanting a Miata track toy with simple/cheap V6/V8 power. I could do fun things with an old Audi something w/ quattro. I don't think I'm brave enough to bother with something else German (which I see breaking), so I'll just watch you do it

I never figured out what happened to my V8 and I was planning a swap anyway, so I just pulled it. I can't be certain that its DEAD, it just slowly losses oil pressure. Could be something small, who knows.

DO IT MAN. Get an el cheapo track car and HAVE FUN. The whole other point of getting this project A4 is to show people in the Audi community that Audi do have a place on the track, regardless if they are an R8 or not. We got this car for for cheap and will be built to NASA racing spec for less than $6k. And you will never have as much fun as you will on a race track.

I would have still went 1.8t. A simple flash would have easily had you past the 2.8 power and there really is no simple upgrades worth while for the 2.8. Since its a dedicated racecare you could have done a real hack job on some things like a turbo and made more power.

Honestly, even a tune is just more $$$ thats not needed. A "real hack job" sounds to me like LESS RELIABILITY haha. Speed isn't the point here. Its just refining our skills in a quattro and learning how to drive on course with other race cars in close quarters competition. Although we won't be going this route for a while, if at all, there are options out there for more power. PES makes a kit and 034 makes a single turbo kit as well. Not to mention you can build the motor with the same parts that go into the 2.7T. Thats more than enough mods, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

[0000 V8]

I am not familiar with any of the regulations and class/track requirements but if you wanted a cheap and fun track car to fill your free time with why not get something like a Miata? It's just as cheap, super light, seems to handle quite well with simple mods, and did I mention super light? I am assuming you just wanted to keep it all Audi and that's why you went with a heavy underpowered pig like this.

Very good point, yes... Miata are fantastic track cars! The Spec Miata car is extremely competitive, too. Unfortunately 2 of the 3 drivers are too tall to properly fit in a Miata, myself included.

And yes, I am faithful to the Audi brand and I always will be. I now own 3, have 2 as race cars. Ive just learned my way around Audis, mechanically speaking. As far as being called a pig, that a common term I hear, but when you strip the car down to the bare bones and lighten it, it handles well and great fun on the track. I brought my S4 from like 3800#'s down to nearly 3100#'s with roll cage. This A4 started at about 3200#'s so we are hoping to get it down to about 2500#'s which I know is possible for a B6, so should be close in a B5.

[zandrew]

Honestly, even a tune is just more $$$ thats not needed. A "real hack job" sounds to me like LESS RELIABILITY haha. Speed isn't the point here. Its just refining our skills in a quattro and learning how to drive on course with other race cars in close quarters competition. Although we won't be going this route for a while, if at all, there are options out there for more power. PES makes a kit and 034 makes a single turbo kit as well. Not to mention you can build the motor with the same parts that go into the 2.7T. Thats more than enough mods, so I'm not sure what you are referring to.

My point is after you drive this awhile and hone your skils you are going to want to hone more and add more power. The simplest form to extract power from is 1.8t and there is no super custom parts needed to do so. Turbo V6 sounds nice and all but custom ECU setup, custom manifold, custom IC, custom everything to get it to work.

When I say hack job I mean crude work that does not look great but works just fine. Like using an adapter on the turbo manifold to mount something like T28, simple flash (which you can get really cheap), just a straight dump pipe since noise is not an issue. You can buy a cheap eBay intercooler and make tons of power with them and cut the hell out of the bumper.

Its your project and It looks like a blast but my point was you could get more bang from your buck with the 1.8t.

Miata is fun to drive but decent examples are no longer cheap. Hell even ragged ones are expensive. Me personally I like the old 85-89 Toyota Mr2. They handle like other car and can be driven at their limits. Cheap to find. Cheap to maintain. Last forever. Easy to upgrade.

Hell I miss mine...

[PNW Avant]

I think it sounds like you need to build a car for Chump Car. I am actually at the track right now with ours - it started as a supercharged 89 MR2 but now has the NA 5SFE from the 2nd gen. Much more reliable!

Www.facebook.com/crapstblueribbonracing

[zandrew]

Yeah buddy. Thats good stuff. I like the 3sge better then the 5sfe but I know how easy the 5s is to find. I had a 7AGE in one. A built smallport 4age in another. 2 of the 4AGZE 88s. My favorite was the turbo 4AGE though. It made 225rwhp with peak boost at 3500.

Fun lil cars that I love the looks and suicide feel of.

[Saskwatch]

Isn't the fastest mr2 honda powered?

[0000 V8]

My point is after you drive this awhile and hone your skils you are going to want to hone more and add more power.

NO, we won't.

I already have a much faster track car, we are only doing this for experience in lower classes. As soon as you add more power you move up in class.

[zandrew]

I obviously don't understand your rules. What mods are allowed and what's not?

Your s4 is insane. Why not put it back on track? I know there is an issue with it but what specifically is wrong?

[0000 V8]

I obviously don't understand your rules. What mods are allowed and what's not?

Your s4 is insane. Why not put it back on track? I know there is an issue with it but what specifically is wrong?

That depend on which class we run in. There are different rules for Time Trial classes, GTS, and others. We basically just want a simple to operate motor with no turbo and no special tuning. We aren't even considering exhaust since it doesn't seem worth the money to get one.

The S4 needs a motor and currently doesn't have one in it. I was never able to diagnose why I was losing oil pressure.

[0000 V8]

OK update from todays work.

We pretty much finished gutting the inside of the car. Its ready for the cage and we are now waiting on new seat mounts for the Status seats to go in. We also ordered el cheapo Raceland Ultimo coil overs and 4 10mm hub centric spacers. The Enkie PF01's look pretty good on the car but it def needs a drop and adjustment. It would be nice to do adjustable upper control arms but we don't want to spend $400 on them right now. Still need a viable brake option.

[jeffrey146]

I have some spc adjustable control arms sitting in my garage. I'll shoot you pictures tomorrow and I'll give you a great deal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[0000 V8]

I have some spc adjustable control arms sitting in my garage. I'll shoot you pictures tomorrow and I'll give you a great deal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Thanks, but not really interested in control arms that aren't spherical. Unless you want to sell them for like $50.

[97B518TQM]

It's definitely an advantage knowing the car inside and out. I hear you on the height limitations, I am also too tall to fit in a Miata myself :) Or a Honda S2000,.. or anything close to that size :(. I can sit inside but my legs would touch the steering wheel :).

Very good point, yes... Miata are fantastic track cars! The Spec Miata car is extremely competitive, too. Unfortunately 2 of the 3 drivers are too tall to properly fit in a Miata, myself included.

And yes, I am faithful to the Audi brand and I always will be. I now own 3, have 2 as race cars. Ive just learned my way around Audis, mechanically speaking. As far as being called a pig, that a common term I hear, but when you strip the car down to the bare bones and lighten it, it handles well and great fun on the track. I brought my S4 from like 3800#'s down to nearly 3100#'s with roll cage. This A4 started at about 3200#'s so we are hoping to get it down to about 2500#'s which I know is possible for a B6, so should be close in a B5.

[bhusted]

I'm not sure if you're allowed to, but switching out the cast iron front uprights for aluminum ones from an S4 or C5 A6 can save a bunch of weight.

[s4cappa]

Swap a 2.7 into your b6 or a belt driven 4.2 both are much cheaper to replace and 2.7 is highly upgradable and just as fast as a b6 s4 with just a tune

[0000 V8]

I'm not sure if you're allowed to, but switching out the cast iron front uprights for aluminum ones from an S4 or C5 A6 can save a bunch of weight.

Good idea, something to consider but not quite yet as we are trying to go cheap right now. Things like safety and mounts are more important.

Swap a 2.7 into your b6 or a belt driven 4.2 both are much cheaper to replace and 2.7 is highly upgradable and just as fast as a b6 s4 with just a tune

Not really interested in that. I may end up going a different route but have more investigating to do. I have lots of time to decide now that I have another project in the mean time.

I just dropped the car off to get the cage installed. It will be ready in 2 weeks, in which we will also be installing some cheap Raceland coils into it, and changing all of the fluids. We are trying to have the car ready for a 26-27 NASA event.

[oldskoolaudi]

cool, can't wait to see this come together. I will be doing the same thing to my supercharged 2.8. I've already got a mk1 rabbit full out race car for vintage racing but since my 2.8 now has a salvage title I want to turn it into somewhat of a japaneese infused time attack car with my son. Nothing crazy with power for now. It's got a lot of quatlity work to the suspension, but now I will work on lightening it, and adding safety items. You really don't need much power on a track. Good driving, good tires, and a good suspension(lightness always helps) will do you much better than adding all the power in the world.

[zandrew]

I wonder if the w8 from the passat would bolt in? It should have the best weight positioning of any of these motors plus have some extra hp to boot. It would only be worthwhile if you could do it and not have to jump classes. I thought some classes allowed motor swaps as long as the motor remained stock?

[MidwestB6]

I wonder if the w8 from the passat would bolt in?

I'm sure it would fit as long as you have a fabrication skills. It wouldn't be very rewarding, though; it would get expensive quickly just like Audi's 4.2, and it only puts out about 270 hp when stock. It would most likely be easier to fit than the 4.2 considering VW's 6.0 W12 is smaller in outside dimensions than the 4.2.

[zandrew]

The W8 comes in the sister model car though. I know when I once ran my MR2 in a class I could use an engine from another vehilce as long as it came from the same make or a sister model. Sister model being VW Passat to Audi A4. If his rules are like mine (this was years ago though) he could swap the W8 in and not have to go up in a class.

Its probably outside the scope of what he wants to do with the car but as far as balance goes the W8 would allow the engine to sit further back and aid in the god aweful nose heavy issue these cars have. I am not so much suggesting it to the OP or his fellows as it seems they have what they want figured out.

The 4.2 sounds like a great idea but they are damn expensive. The affodable ones really do not produce that much hp.

[0000 V8]

With the car at the shop all this week and next getting the cage installed, I went ahead and ordered a bunch more parts for the project. We are hoping to get them installed and the car ready for a NASA event in less than 4 weeks. Here is a list of parts on order:

-Raceland Ultimos
-4x 10mm hub centric spacers
-20x 14x1.5mm 3" studs and bolts
-Porsche Calipers, A8 rotors, adapter brackets, Hawk Blue track pads, brake backing plates, SS lines all around, Motul 600
-Oil, filter, plug
-WaterWetter, Fuel cleaner, tranny fluid
-Status seat mounts
-Sparco steering wheel hub
-034 Trans mounts (motorsport)
-034 Solid rear sway bar with upgraded support bracket
-034 Snub mount with bracket

cool, can't wait to see this come together. I will be doing the same thing to my supercharged 2.8. I've already got a mk1 rabbit full out race car for vintage racing but since my 2.8 now has a salvage title I want to turn it into somewhat of a japaneese infused time attack car with my son. Nothing crazy with power for now. It's got a lot of quatlity work to the suspension, but now I will work on lightening it, and adding safety items. You really don't need much power on a track. Good driving, good tires, and a good suspension(lightness always helps) will do you much better than adding all the power in the world.

Great news! I wish I could put as much into the A4 suspension as I have in my S4, but thats not realistic for the goals of the car lol. Tires will be good, I can get a great price on Yoko slicks when we start racing. We will get the car weighed after the cage goes in. We started around 3300lbs IIRC.

I wonder if the w8 from the passat would bolt in? I thought some classes allowed motor swaps as long as the motor remained stock?

If we were to consider a swap we would likely go for a 2.7T, but I doubt we will find one cheap enough to consider it. Regardless, we will have a lot of time and fun in the car with the 2.8 until we blow it up. The German Touring Series does allow for motor swaps into other makes, but it has to be a sister company. VW/Audi/Porsche/Seat/Skoda/etc. so yes a W8 would count, but we wouldn't go that route.

The 4.2 sounds like a great idea but they are damn expensive. The affodable ones really do not produce that much hp.

I have a 4.2 sitting right now, but can't figure out that oil issue! We wouldn't swap it in anyway though.

[CLEANA3]

looks like its gonna be sweet

[laserb5]

Just out of curiosity, have you considered something along the lines of swapping in a 3.0 b6 alloy block? You could probably re-ring and put fresh bearings in one for around ~$750 including a used bottom end. The weight loss would be beneficial (albeit small but every pound counts right? Esp in that area) and you would get a little bump in power.

[DeltaAlpha9]

Damn, that interior looked pretty mint. Sub'd because racecar thread.

[LegendaryT2]

Hey what would u like to get for the leather seats and the headliner?

[0000 V8]

Just out of curiosity, have you considered something along the lines of swapping in a 3.0 b6 alloy block? You could probably re-ring and put fresh bearings in one for around ~$750 including a used bottom end. The weight loss would be beneficial (albeit small but every pound counts right? Esp in that area) and you would get a little bump in power.

Too much hassle right now, we are trying to keep costs down and don't need power.

Hey what would u like to get for the leather seats and the headliner?

The drivers seat has the ripped stitching on the seat bottom, and we don't have the headliner. Plus we are in CA and you are in NY. Doesnt seem feasible.

[0000 V8]

Calipers came in from pick n pull. Porsche Brembo, not bad for 200 bucks.

[0000 V8]

Coils came in. Also got 4 x 10mm spacers.

[bhusted]

Calipers came in from pick n pull. Porsche Brembo, not bad for 200 bucks.

You got the pair for $200? Where is this junkyard? Hook a brother up!

[xthealienatorx]

You got the pair for $200? Where is this junkyard? Hook a brother up!

Go to pullapart.com

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