4.2L V8 Swapped B5 A4

[bhusted]

So, I'm new to this forum and cannot post in the builds/projects section. Anyway, I've had my Audi for a couple of years now and just decided to swap in a V8 last month. Overall, I'm happy with the result, but have some questions for the experts around here on a couple of issues.

Without further adieu, here's my car:


The 4.2L V8 came from a wrecked A6 that I bought for $650.



The A6 had 156k on it. The guy I bought it from had taken the auto trans, which was fine with me because I didn't want the slush box anyway. I got right to work on pulling the engine so I knew what I was working with.

[bhusted]

Everything came out smoothly and I started diving in to potential issues in the motor. I had already turned it over by hand to ensure that the timing hadn't skipped and planned to do the timing service while it was out. The first issue was the variable intake flaps. These will commonly get stuck on these motors and of course mine were pretty well seized.



The valve cover gaskets were leaking and the engine was pretty dirty in general. I pulled the covers to inspect and replace the gaskets. At the same time, I found this:



I ordered some new tensioner pads and set to work removing the intake cams to get the tensioners out. Just for giggles I called the local VW/Audi dealer and they wanted $800 each for the tensioners. Of course they won't just sell you the pads. I had though that the inside of the 30 valve heads were impressive, but these were mind blowing!







I'm glad I discovered this before doing the timing service, because the timing belt and cam sprocket must be removed from the driver's head to replace the tensioner. The old timing components were pretty crusty. I'm glad that I didn't try and run it.

[bhusted]

I got the heads buttoned up and timing finished. At the same time, I replaced the plastic coolant pipe in the oil cooler. These are known to crack and puke out coolant. There is a guy on Ebay that sells nice aluminum ones for ~$20.





Next on the list was removing the 2.8 from my A4.





The flywheel went out to be machined (I'm using the stock 30v dual mass flywheel). When the flywheel came back I could install a new South Bend Stage 1 clutch. Very streetable and rated for 340 ft-lbs.

[bhusted]

The next big issue to tackle was cooling the beast. I bought an all aluminum radiator from Ebay for a Mk-IV Golf and did some serious cutting to make it fit.






Tight fit with the timing covers up against the lock carrier.



Cooling is achieved by an 11" pusher on the front of the A/C condenser and the stock electric fan as a puller.




Minor clearancing of the bumper was required to fit the pusher.

[coolgraymemo]

I like this.

[bhusted]

With the hood shut, you'd never even know that it's there.




Since I had the whole parts car I also pulled off the aluminum front uprights, control arms, and HP2 calipers. I also grabbed the rears, but needed to rebuild one of the calipers before I could install them.


The 2.8 downpipes do fit but hang down pretty low at the cats, so I did a little cutting and bending to tuck them up there better. I'll be on the lookout for some A6 downpipes to use instead, but for now, these will work. While I was at it, I cut out the middle resonator and added a cross bar at the rear subframe mounts.

[bhusted]

I got tired of the nasty looking yellow on the tops of the coil packs, so I painted them all black. We'll see how long the paint holds up.




I was also getting some random misfire codes from a vacuum leak at the PCV. No more misfires!


The brake calipers were getting rusty, so I got a G2 kit and went to town on them.



At the same time, I painted, rebuilt, and installed the rears.

[dowsett6]

nicely done. What coolant bottle is that? a stock 4.2 bottle?? and where does the bottom hose sit on them?

[bhusted]

Now for the current issues:

I've been trying to get a hold of someone at JHM to get my ECU flashed for the manual transmission. I've left multiple voice mails and emails, but have not heard back. Since the A6 was a 2000, the ECU uses ME7.1, on which I'm told I cannot use the popular S6 file. User "v8a6" had his ECU flashed by JHM and claims that it works great. Anybody know of anywhere else that can code the ECU for manual transmission?

I'm not sure if this is a issue from the automatic coding or not, but when the engine is at operating temp, it will sometimes idle around 1700 to 1800 rpm. I did some data logging today to try to illustrate the issue. You can see that the vehicle speed drops to zero, but the engine rpm and throttle seem to hesitate. You can see this even more in the second graph. Both times my foot was completely removed from the throttle pedal.



Any thoughts or suggestions on these issues would be greatly appreciated.

[FU5E]

That's sweet!

[bhusted]

nicely done. What coolant bottle is that? a stock 4.2 bottle?? and where does the bottom hose sit on them?

It is the stock 4.2 coolant tank. Both hoses that go to the coolant tank come off of the back left when viewed from the front of the car. I actually noticed that I need to order a replacement because this one is cracking and looks like it could blow at any time.

[revolution337]

That engine bay looks eerily familiar....

[csosnowski]

Was there something special you had to do with the subframe? I notice that you removed it with the 2.8 engine.

Big props on this project, I have hopes to stuff 4.2's in some b5 wagons if I can get the details worked out on the swap requirements.

[tinytim]

As you know I am in the middle of my B5 A4 4.2 swap also. I was told that if you dont code for manual you will experience everything you are describing. Mainly the high idle situation. Here is a link to the manual files... there is also some maf scaling and injector mapping changes associated with the manual trans file. They are also in that link.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...33462#msg33462

A big issues is going to be your ME7.1 ecu... the ME7.1.1 is what you want, but that may require changing the whole engine harness.

[Mad Cow]

As you know I am in the middle of my B5 A4 4.2 swap also. I was told that if you dont code for manual you will experience everything you are describing. Mainly the high idle situation. Here is a link to the manual files... there is also some maf scaling and injector mapping changes associated with the manual trans file. They are also in that link.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...33462#msg33462

A big issues is going to be your ME7.1 ecu... the ME7.1.1 is what you want, but that may require changing the whole engine harness.

An ME7.1.1 harness should be basically identical to an ME7.1. The only differences I can imagine would be the plenum box area (it uses a relay to power the coil packs and VVT solenoid) and potentially some connectors that may be different.

I though all C5's were ME7.1.1 though, don't ME7.1 cars use the older 5-pin coil packs?

[tinytim]

An ME7.1.1 harness should be basically identical to an ME7.1. The only differences I can imagine would be the plenum box area (it uses a relay to power the coil packs and VVT solenoid) and potentially some connectors that may be different.

I though all C5's were ME7.1.1 though, don't ME7.1 cars use the older 5-pin coil packs?

Not sure about the coil packs. I know I was highly advised to stay away from the me7.1 when doing this swap as it complicates things. Maybe you can just swap in a coded me7.1.1... but I'm not sure. I don't know if the ecu plugs are the same.

[TJN0923]

That's amazing. Great work!

[hallvardr]

Very cool!

[getslideways]

Love seeing people who are more motivated than myself, encourages me to start installing my ever growing pile of parts lol

Looking forward to some videos, or maybe I will have the pleasure of spotting you on the road one of these days!

[bhusted]

Nothing required to do to the subframe. I pulled the engine and transmission together and wanted to get the subframe cleaned up too. I think it made removal and installation easier.

So you think that the weird idle is being caused by the ECU coding? It only happens when the engine is up to temp.

I'm not sure about the "older 5-pin coils", but mine are pictured above and are 5-pin. I've contemplated swapping the engine harness and ECU for ME7.1.1, but that just seems like overkill to get this running right. I'm saving it as a last resort. Is there any sure fire way to find out what ECU it is?

According to user "v8a6" he was able to get JHM to set his ME7.1 ECU for the manual transmission.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ed-swap-begins!

If JHM can code the ME7.1 ECU for a manual, why can't everyone else? An even better question is why won't they return my call?

[Mad Cow]

Nothing required to do to the subframe. I pulled the engine and transmission together and wanted to get the subframe cleaned up too. I think it made removal and installation easier.

So you think that the weird idle is being caused by the ECU coding? It only happens when the engine is up to temp.

I'm not sure about the "older 5-pin coils", but mine are pictured above and are 5-pin. I've contemplated swapping the engine harness and ECU for ME7.1.1, but that just seems like overkill to get this running right. I'm saving it as a last resort. Is there any sure fire way to find out what ECU it is?

According to user "v8a6" he was able to get JHM to set his ME7.1 ECU for the manual transmission.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ed-swap-begins!

If JHM can code the ME7.1 ECU for a manual, why can't everyone else? An even better question is why won't they return my call?

Your coils look like they have 4 wires, the 5-pin coils would have the same type of connectors as AEB and B5 S4 coils. The best way to find out would be to check your ECU part number, it should even say ME7.1 or ME7.1.1 in small print somewhere on the label.

Even if you do have ME7.1 there shouldn't be anything stopping someone from modifying the correct .bin, it's probably just not openly available. I would ask Gonzo on nefmoto, he knows his stuff and would probably be able to help you.

[walky_talky20]

5-pin coils? To my knowledge there are only 3-pin (AEB/S4 with external igniter) and 4-pin (Hitachi or push-down with internal igniter).

[bhusted]

walky is right. The coils I have are the Hitachi 4 pin ones.

Here's a pic of the ECU. I don't see anything on it that overtly states ME7.1 or ME7.1.1. Is there a way to look it up from the other info on the label?

[Mad Cow]

5-pin coils? To my knowledge there are only 3-pin (AEB/S4 with external igniter) and 4-pin (Hitachi or push-down with internal igniter).

Whoops, meant 3 pin. I knew it was an odd number beside 4 and picked the wrong one.

A quick google of that part number seems to say conclude that they only used it until '01 or '02, which would probably mean that it is indeed ME7.1. If you want to be 100% sure you'd have to open it up and read the number on the flash chip, if it's 29f400 or a variation then it's ME7.1, 29f800 and it's ME7.1.1. The difference is the 29f400 is only 512kb, while the latter is 1024.

[ddillenger]

558S is a 2000 a6 ME7.1 ecu. I can walk you through the wiring changes to convert to ME7.1.1, there are about 6 changes to do so, all relatively minor. That opens up the way to do the 559E 6 speed file I advise everyone to do.

Those are my files he linked, and I've done quite a few of these. Feel free to message me if you need anything

[bhusted]

So no need to open this sucker up and verify?

What wiring changes are required to go ME7.1.1? Do I need the entire engine harness, or can I modify my current harness? Do you know the part # for the ME7.1.1 ECU I would need?

[C41ST1]

looks awesome...

i just setup a thread few minutes ago.
:) i want 500 kw on my b5s... but without changing the engine.
any ideeas ... what to do on a 2.8 v6 30v beast to get 500 kw out of it ?

[ddillenger]

No need to open the ecu. It's DEFINITELY ME7.1

The ideal A6 ME7.1.1 ecu is 4D0907560AE. That's from a 2001 so it's a hybrid CAN-Bus ecu that can still accept non CAN signals as well. Do not get a 2002-up, as you'll have issues getting the ecu a VSS signal. As for the wiring changes, I can write something up. You use your harness with a few pinout changes. Nothing drastic. Biggest thing is adding a wire to pin21 and running a diode so the car shuts off with the key instead of staying running for a second or two after!

[melomandn]

No need to open the ecu. It's DEFINITELY ME7.1

The ideal A6 ME7.1.1 ecu is 4D0907560AE. That's from a 2001 so it's a hybrid CAN-Bus ecu that can still accept non CAN signals as well. Do not get a 2002-up, as you'll have issues getting the ecu a VSS signal. As for the wiring changes, I can write something up. You use your harness with a few pinout changes. Nothing drastic. Biggest thing is adding a wire to pin21 and running a diode so the car shuts off with the key instead of staying running for a second or two after!

You make me want to do a v8 swap just because of how helpful you are

[Saskwatch]

I can hardly stand reading these I want to do a 4.2 swap so bad.... Maybe a 1.8t part out soon.. lol

[bhusted]

No need to open the ecu. It's DEFINITELY ME7.1

The ideal A6 ME7.1.1 ecu is 4D0907560AE. That's from a 2001 so it's a hybrid CAN-Bus ecu that can still accept non CAN signals as well. Do not get a 2002-up, as you'll have issues getting the ecu a VSS signal. As for the wiring changes, I can write something up. You use your harness with a few pinout changes. Nothing drastic. Biggest thing is adding a wire to pin21 and running a diode so the car shuts off with the key instead of staying running for a second or two after!

Alright. I'll start searching for an ECU that someone doesn't want my first born child for. A writeup or description of the the wiring changes would be helpful if you have the time.

[nativefx]

So no need to open this sucker up and verify?

What wiring changes are required to go ME7.1.1? Do I need the entire engine harness, or can I modify my current harness? Do you know the part # for the ME7.1.1 ECU I would need?

ddillenger can help you with this. I have a 2000 A6 4.2 that I did a manual swap with and he was working on the tune after the re-wiring was completed. Unfortunately while doing this we noticed the timing was off and after pulling the valve covers we noticed the broken tensioner pads but not early enough so it's still being worked on by topball at the moment.

[nativefx]

Alright. I'll start searching for an ECU that someone doesn't want my first born child for. A writeup or description of the the wiring changes would be helpful if you have the time.

By the way, are you still running your A4's 5speed or did you convert to a 6speed 01E?

[tinytim]

Alright. I'll start searching for an ECU that someone doesn't want my first born child for. A writeup or description of the the wiring changes would be helpful if you have the time.

I got mine from a 2001 a6 4.2 for $100 on ebay.

[walky_talky20]

Maroney's has AWN ECU's (4D0-907-560AE) for $75.

[bhusted]

By the way, are you still running your A4's 5speed or did you convert to a 6speed 01E?

I'm running the 01A 5-speed. It drives great aside from the idle and over rev issues. I do wish that 5th gear was taller though. I've driven this about 3000 miles now and average 23mpg on the freeway at 70 mph.

I've located a junkyard nearby that may have an ECU for me. We'll see if the part # matches and how much $$$ they want.

[tinytim]

I'm running the 01A 5-speed. It drives great aside from the idle and over rev issues. I do wish that 5th gear was taller though. I've driven this about 3000 miles now and average 23mpg on the freeway at 70 mph.

23 mpg! So my v8 a4 will get better gas mileage then my c5 a6 2.7t... Nice!! I only get around 19 mpg with the 2.7t and I really don't drive it hard at all.

I can't wait to be part of the 4.2 A4 club!!! Hoping to be driving it by the end of this month.

[nativefx]

I'm running the 01A 5-speed. It drives great aside from the idle and over rev issues. I do wish that 5th gear was taller though. I've driven this about 3000 miles now and average 23mpg on the freeway at 70 mph.

I've located a junkyard nearby that may have an ECU for me. We'll see if the part # matches and how much $$$ they want.

I'm actually surprised at 23mpg as well and I was wondering how the 5speed gearing would match up as even with the 6speed in our A6, I wish I would have went with the TDI gearing as even that seemed like it would be better off being taller.

[bhusted]

23 mpg! So my v8 a4 will get better gas mileage then my c5 a6 2.7t... Nice!! I only get around 19 mpg with the 2.7t and I really don't drive it hard at all.

I can't wait to be part of the 4.2 A4 club!!! Hoping to be driving it by the end of this month.

Now that I think of it, with the shorter final drive of the 01E, I'm not sure that the revs on the freeway would be much different from mine. Anyone know the engine speed to do 60 mph with the 01E in 6th? I'm close to 2700 rpm in 5th. I have heard of people swapping 6th for the gear set from a TDI to give them a much nicer cruising RPM. Maybe someday if I have trouble with this transmission.

It's totally doable to have it driving by the end of the month.

[ddillenger]

First things First. VSS.

Verify that Pin 54 of the ecu goes to connector a180. From there it goes to the blue 32 pin plug on the cluster, and connects to pin 3 which is white and blue. Verify continuity between these two pins (ECU pin 54, Blue plug pin 3) to ensure the ecu receives the proper VSS signal!


Now, on the ecu side, large plug remove the wires from pins 30, 47, 48, 81. If you don't remove these, the car will not start and if it does it will run like crap. One is for the CEL, but it'll run without for now. I can walk you through hooking that up later.

The wire in pin 23 needs to be moved to 19. That is cyl 2 injector which is different on 01 ecus.

You must supply power to pin 21 on the large ECU plug. The 2000 ecu has no wire here, as it didn't have an immobilizer. You MUST run a diode inline for the trigger for pin 21. I prefer to connect it to fuse 7 (2001-up use this fuse), but any Key-on power source works, including terminal 75x. Then, add a diode. Radioshack sells them, I use this one:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062591

Without it, when you turn the key off the car will continue to run for a second or two. This is a big deal because it throws a plethora of codes as everything is shut down. Diode solves that problem.

Now, the small plug on the 2000 ecu. pin 115 has a large wire going into it. Follow it down till it splits. Those are cam adjusters - ground signal trigger. Bank 1 (passenger side) has to go to pin 115 and bank 2 (driver side) goes to 120. Basically the 2000 runs both cam adjuster grounds from one pin, we want to split them to both pins like the 2001 ecu has. If you don't want to do this, I can remove diagnosis in the flash, there are no drawbacks to doing this.

Pin 104 ecu side, small plug needs to go to 48 on the large ecu plug. Intake manifold changeover valve.

Then, we do the clutch switch install.

http://breakoutmotorsports.com/index...clutch-switch/

If you've already done this, skip right to the next step, verifying the clutch switch works properly:

VCDS measuring block 060. It should show your cruise control condition bits. Basically a string of 0's and 1's. When the clutch is out the 3rd bit (from the right) should be 0. push the clutch in, it should change to 1. If it's reversed, you have the wrong model clutch switch. Some are backwards. Not having this properly makes the car rev hang, and makes the driving experience VERY jerky.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...asuring_Values

This seems scarier than it is, but fear not. The entire process should take an hour!

Any questions?