4.2L V8 Swapped B5 A4

[bhusted]

So, I'm new to this forum and cannot post in the builds/projects section. Anyway, I've had my Audi for a couple of years now and just decided to swap in a V8 last month. Overall, I'm happy with the result, but have some questions for the experts around here on a couple of issues.

Without further adieu, here's my car:


The 4.2L V8 came from a wrecked A6 that I bought for $650.



The A6 had 156k on it. The guy I bought it from had taken the auto trans, which was fine with me because I didn't want the slush box anyway. I got right to work on pulling the engine so I knew what I was working with.

[bhusted]

Everything came out smoothly and I started diving in to potential issues in the motor. I had already turned it over by hand to ensure that the timing hadn't skipped and planned to do the timing service while it was out. The first issue was the variable intake flaps. These will commonly get stuck on these motors and of course mine were pretty well seized.



The valve cover gaskets were leaking and the engine was pretty dirty in general. I pulled the covers to inspect and replace the gaskets. At the same time, I found this:



I ordered some new tensioner pads and set to work removing the intake cams to get the tensioners out. Just for giggles I called the local VW/Audi dealer and they wanted $800 each for the tensioners. Of course they won't just sell you the pads. I had though that the inside of the 30 valve heads were impressive, but these were mind blowing!







I'm glad I discovered this before doing the timing service, because the timing belt and cam sprocket must be removed from the driver's head to replace the tensioner. The old timing components were pretty crusty. I'm glad that I didn't try and run it.

[bhusted]

I got the heads buttoned up and timing finished. At the same time, I replaced the plastic coolant pipe in the oil cooler. These are known to crack and puke out coolant. There is a guy on Ebay that sells nice aluminum ones for ~$20.





Next on the list was removing the 2.8 from my A4.





The flywheel went out to be machined (I'm using the stock 30v dual mass flywheel). When the flywheel came back I could install a new South Bend Stage 1 clutch. Very streetable and rated for 340 ft-lbs.

[4Loops]

Hey Bhusted,
Awesome project. This, and some others, have inspired me to try this project myself. Just found and purchased a 4.2 A6 w/ ART. Hopefully will start soon after some other home projects wrap up.

One question though, on post #3 you said you sent the flywheel out to be machined. Why did you have to have the flywheel machined? and what was machined on it? I suppose this is to fit the South Bend Stage 1 Clutch you mention. Would this be a direct fit(with no machining necessary) if I were to use a stock 30V clutch? Is the stage 1 clutch you mention slightly thicker requiring some material to be shaved off the flywheel? (I'm coming from the 2.8L as well).
I have performed all kinds of work to my vehicles, but never had the opportunity/need to replace a clutch, so pardon any ignorance here.

I hope this question hasn't been asked of you already, I did not see it asked the the rest of the forum.
If there's some documentation or another forum which would explain this maybe you could direct me there as well.

I'm in the mere infancy stages of this project, so for some things, "I don't know what I don't know" yet. Eager to learn and start though!

-not trying to hijack anything myself (sorry if I'm long-winded) -just want to know why machining the flywheel was necessary for you.

Thanks!

[bhusted]

The next big issue to tackle was cooling the beast. I bought an all aluminum radiator from Ebay for a Mk-IV Golf and did some serious cutting to make it fit.






Tight fit with the timing covers up against the lock carrier.



Cooling is achieved by an 11" pusher on the front of the A/C condenser and the stock electric fan as a puller.




Minor clearancing of the bumper was required to fit the pusher.

[coolgraymemo]

I like this.

[bhusted]

With the hood shut, you'd never even know that it's there.




Since I had the whole parts car I also pulled off the aluminum front uprights, control arms, and HP2 calipers. I also grabbed the rears, but needed to rebuild one of the calipers before I could install them.


The 2.8 downpipes do fit but hang down pretty low at the cats, so I did a little cutting and bending to tuck them up there better. I'll be on the lookout for some A6 downpipes to use instead, but for now, these will work. While I was at it, I cut out the middle resonator and added a cross bar at the rear subframe mounts.

[bhusted]

I got tired of the nasty looking yellow on the tops of the coil packs, so I painted them all black. We'll see how long the paint holds up.




I was also getting some random misfire codes from a vacuum leak at the PCV. No more misfires!


The brake calipers were getting rusty, so I got a G2 kit and went to town on them.



At the same time, I painted, rebuilt, and installed the rears.

[dowsett6]

nicely done. What coolant bottle is that? a stock 4.2 bottle?? and where does the bottom hose sit on them?

[bhusted]

nicely done. What coolant bottle is that? a stock 4.2 bottle?? and where does the bottom hose sit on them?

It is the stock 4.2 coolant tank. Both hoses that go to the coolant tank come off of the back left when viewed from the front of the car. I actually noticed that I need to order a replacement because this one is cracking and looks like it could blow at any time.

[bhusted]

Now for the current issues:

I've been trying to get a hold of someone at JHM to get my ECU flashed for the manual transmission. I've left multiple voice mails and emails, but have not heard back. Since the A6 was a 2000, the ECU uses ME7.1, on which I'm told I cannot use the popular S6 file. User "v8a6" had his ECU flashed by JHM and claims that it works great. Anybody know of anywhere else that can code the ECU for manual transmission?

I'm not sure if this is a issue from the automatic coding or not, but when the engine is at operating temp, it will sometimes idle around 1700 to 1800 rpm. I did some data logging today to try to illustrate the issue. You can see that the vehicle speed drops to zero, but the engine rpm and throttle seem to hesitate. You can see this even more in the second graph. Both times my foot was completely removed from the throttle pedal.



Any thoughts or suggestions on these issues would be greatly appreciated.

[FU5E]

That's sweet!

[revolution337]

That engine bay looks eerily familiar....

[csosnowski]

Was there something special you had to do with the subframe? I notice that you removed it with the 2.8 engine.

Big props on this project, I have hopes to stuff 4.2's in some b5 wagons if I can get the details worked out on the swap requirements.

[tinytim]

As you know I am in the middle of my B5 A4 4.2 swap also. I was told that if you dont code for manual you will experience everything you are describing. Mainly the high idle situation. Here is a link to the manual files... there is also some maf scaling and injector mapping changes associated with the manual trans file. They are also in that link.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...33462#msg33462

A big issues is going to be your ME7.1 ecu... the ME7.1.1 is what you want, but that may require changing the whole engine harness.

[Mad Cow]

As you know I am in the middle of my B5 A4 4.2 swap also. I was told that if you dont code for manual you will experience everything you are describing. Mainly the high idle situation. Here is a link to the manual files... there is also some maf scaling and injector mapping changes associated with the manual trans file. They are also in that link.

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...33462#msg33462

A big issues is going to be your ME7.1 ecu... the ME7.1.1 is what you want, but that may require changing the whole engine harness.

An ME7.1.1 harness should be basically identical to an ME7.1. The only differences I can imagine would be the plenum box area (it uses a relay to power the coil packs and VVT solenoid) and potentially some connectors that may be different.

I though all C5's were ME7.1.1 though, don't ME7.1 cars use the older 5-pin coil packs?

[tinytim]

An ME7.1.1 harness should be basically identical to an ME7.1. The only differences I can imagine would be the plenum box area (it uses a relay to power the coil packs and VVT solenoid) and potentially some connectors that may be different.

I though all C5's were ME7.1.1 though, don't ME7.1 cars use the older 5-pin coil packs?

Not sure about the coil packs. I know I was highly advised to stay away from the me7.1 when doing this swap as it complicates things. Maybe you can just swap in a coded me7.1.1... but I'm not sure. I don't know if the ecu plugs are the same.

[TJN0923]

That's amazing. Great work!

[hallvardr]

Very cool!

[getslideways]

Love seeing people who are more motivated than myself, encourages me to start installing my ever growing pile of parts lol

Looking forward to some videos, or maybe I will have the pleasure of spotting you on the road one of these days!

[bhusted]

Nothing required to do to the subframe. I pulled the engine and transmission together and wanted to get the subframe cleaned up too. I think it made removal and installation easier.

So you think that the weird idle is being caused by the ECU coding? It only happens when the engine is up to temp.

I'm not sure about the "older 5-pin coils", but mine are pictured above and are 5-pin. I've contemplated swapping the engine harness and ECU for ME7.1.1, but that just seems like overkill to get this running right. I'm saving it as a last resort. Is there any sure fire way to find out what ECU it is?

According to user "v8a6" he was able to get JHM to set his ME7.1 ECU for the manual transmission.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ed-swap-begins!

If JHM can code the ME7.1 ECU for a manual, why can't everyone else? An even better question is why won't they return my call?

[Mad Cow]

Nothing required to do to the subframe. I pulled the engine and transmission together and wanted to get the subframe cleaned up too. I think it made removal and installation easier.

So you think that the weird idle is being caused by the ECU coding? It only happens when the engine is up to temp.

I'm not sure about the "older 5-pin coils", but mine are pictured above and are 5-pin. I've contemplated swapping the engine harness and ECU for ME7.1.1, but that just seems like overkill to get this running right. I'm saving it as a last resort. Is there any sure fire way to find out what ECU it is?

According to user "v8a6" he was able to get JHM to set his ME7.1 ECU for the manual transmission.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ed-swap-begins!

If JHM can code the ME7.1 ECU for a manual, why can't everyone else? An even better question is why won't they return my call?

Your coils look like they have 4 wires, the 5-pin coils would have the same type of connectors as AEB and B5 S4 coils. The best way to find out would be to check your ECU part number, it should even say ME7.1 or ME7.1.1 in small print somewhere on the label.

Even if you do have ME7.1 there shouldn't be anything stopping someone from modifying the correct .bin, it's probably just not openly available. I would ask Gonzo on nefmoto, he knows his stuff and would probably be able to help you.

[walky_talky20]

5-pin coils? To my knowledge there are only 3-pin (AEB/S4 with external igniter) and 4-pin (Hitachi or push-down with internal igniter).

[Mad Cow]

5-pin coils? To my knowledge there are only 3-pin (AEB/S4 with external igniter) and 4-pin (Hitachi or push-down with internal igniter).

Whoops, meant 3 pin. I knew it was an odd number beside 4 and picked the wrong one.

A quick google of that part number seems to say conclude that they only used it until '01 or '02, which would probably mean that it is indeed ME7.1. If you want to be 100% sure you'd have to open it up and read the number on the flash chip, if it's 29f400 or a variation then it's ME7.1, 29f800 and it's ME7.1.1. The difference is the 29f400 is only 512kb, while the latter is 1024.

[bhusted]

walky is right. The coils I have are the Hitachi 4 pin ones.

Here's a pic of the ECU. I don't see anything on it that overtly states ME7.1 or ME7.1.1. Is there a way to look it up from the other info on the label?

[ddillenger]

558S is a 2000 a6 ME7.1 ecu. I can walk you through the wiring changes to convert to ME7.1.1, there are about 6 changes to do so, all relatively minor. That opens up the way to do the 559E 6 speed file I advise everyone to do.

Those are my files he linked, and I've done quite a few of these. Feel free to message me if you need anything

[bhusted]

So no need to open this sucker up and verify?

What wiring changes are required to go ME7.1.1? Do I need the entire engine harness, or can I modify my current harness? Do you know the part # for the ME7.1.1 ECU I would need?

[C41ST1]

looks awesome...

i just setup a thread few minutes ago.
:) i want 500 kw on my b5s... but without changing the engine.
any ideeas ... what to do on a 2.8 v6 30v beast to get 500 kw out of it ?

[nativefx]

So no need to open this sucker up and verify?

What wiring changes are required to go ME7.1.1? Do I need the entire engine harness, or can I modify my current harness? Do you know the part # for the ME7.1.1 ECU I would need?

ddillenger can help you with this. I have a 2000 A6 4.2 that I did a manual swap with and he was working on the tune after the re-wiring was completed. Unfortunately while doing this we noticed the timing was off and after pulling the valve covers we noticed the broken tensioner pads but not early enough so it's still being worked on by topball at the moment.

[ddillenger]

No need to open the ecu. It's DEFINITELY ME7.1

The ideal A6 ME7.1.1 ecu is 4D0907560AE. That's from a 2001 so it's a hybrid CAN-Bus ecu that can still accept non CAN signals as well. Do not get a 2002-up, as you'll have issues getting the ecu a VSS signal. As for the wiring changes, I can write something up. You use your harness with a few pinout changes. Nothing drastic. Biggest thing is adding a wire to pin21 and running a diode so the car shuts off with the key instead of staying running for a second or two after!

[melomandn]

No need to open the ecu. It's DEFINITELY ME7.1

The ideal A6 ME7.1.1 ecu is 4D0907560AE. That's from a 2001 so it's a hybrid CAN-Bus ecu that can still accept non CAN signals as well. Do not get a 2002-up, as you'll have issues getting the ecu a VSS signal. As for the wiring changes, I can write something up. You use your harness with a few pinout changes. Nothing drastic. Biggest thing is adding a wire to pin21 and running a diode so the car shuts off with the key instead of staying running for a second or two after!

You make me want to do a v8 swap just because of how helpful you are

[bmoreS4]

No need to open the ecu. It's DEFINITELY ME7.1

The ideal A6 ME7.1.1 ecu is 4D0907560AE. That's from a 2001 so it's a hybrid CAN-Bus ecu that can still accept non CAN signals as well. Do not get a 2002-up, as you'll have issues getting the ecu a VSS signal. As for the wiring changes, I can write something up. You use your harness with a few pinout changes. Nothing drastic. Biggest thing is adding a wire to pin21 and running a diode so the car shuts off with the key instead of staying running for a second or two after!

You make me want to do a v8 swap just because of how helpful you are

Daz is amazing, one of the most intelligent and helpful people Ive even meet on the forums.

Do what he says and youll be happy lol

[GoFundMyGas]

Looking at your message, I am guessing the ECU from the 2002 S6 AT 4D0907559B will not be compatible?

[bhusted]

No need to open the ecu. It's DEFINITELY ME7.1

The ideal A6 ME7.1.1 ecu is 4D0907560AE. That's from a 2001 so it's a hybrid CAN-Bus ecu that can still accept non CAN signals as well. Do not get a 2002-up, as you'll have issues getting the ecu a VSS signal. As for the wiring changes, I can write something up. You use your harness with a few pinout changes. Nothing drastic. Biggest thing is adding a wire to pin21 and running a diode so the car shuts off with the key instead of staying running for a second or two after!

Alright. I'll start searching for an ECU that someone doesn't want my first born child for. A writeup or description of the the wiring changes would be helpful if you have the time.

[nativefx]

Alright. I'll start searching for an ECU that someone doesn't want my first born child for. A writeup or description of the the wiring changes would be helpful if you have the time.

By the way, are you still running your A4's 5speed or did you convert to a 6speed 01E?

[bhusted]

By the way, are you still running your A4's 5speed or did you convert to a 6speed 01E?

I'm running the 01A 5-speed. It drives great aside from the idle and over rev issues. I do wish that 5th gear was taller though. I've driven this about 3000 miles now and average 23mpg on the freeway at 70 mph.

I've located a junkyard nearby that may have an ECU for me. We'll see if the part # matches and how much $$$ they want.

[tinytim]

I'm running the 01A 5-speed. It drives great aside from the idle and over rev issues. I do wish that 5th gear was taller though. I've driven this about 3000 miles now and average 23mpg on the freeway at 70 mph.

23 mpg! So my v8 a4 will get better gas mileage then my c5 a6 2.7t... Nice!! I only get around 19 mpg with the 2.7t and I really don't drive it hard at all.

I can't wait to be part of the 4.2 A4 club!!! Hoping to be driving it by the end of this month.

[nativefx]

I'm running the 01A 5-speed. It drives great aside from the idle and over rev issues. I do wish that 5th gear was taller though. I've driven this about 3000 miles now and average 23mpg on the freeway at 70 mph.

I've located a junkyard nearby that may have an ECU for me. We'll see if the part # matches and how much $$$ they want.

I'm actually surprised at 23mpg as well and I was wondering how the 5speed gearing would match up as even with the 6speed in our A6, I wish I would have went with the TDI gearing as even that seemed like it would be better off being taller.

[tinytim]

Alright. I'll start searching for an ECU that someone doesn't want my first born child for. A writeup or description of the the wiring changes would be helpful if you have the time.

I got mine from a 2001 a6 4.2 for $100 on ebay.

[Saskwatch]

I can hardly stand reading these I want to do a 4.2 swap so bad.... Maybe a 1.8t part out soon.. lol