Lettuce Build Thread, Fast Cars and Fast Women: Stage 2 and Beyond

[b6Hate4]

I think he is worried about people seeing his big new unit behind the RS grille.

All i heard was "big unit"




Sent from toilet stall #4

[b6Hate4]

But I gotcha. Yeah then black radiator paint is the way to go.

[Smellie]

I was hoping it'd stay below the top of the crash bar, if it does I'm happy with it

[blbroo]

All i heard was "big unit"




Sent from toilet stall #4

[lettuce]

You can always spray a really light coat of black radiator paint on it if you don't want it showing behind your grill. Or, mount it set back from the crash bar, instead of under it.

The TR8 just barely fit under mine, I'd be very impressed if he can fit the TR11 under his. I'm thinking it'll have to be set back a bit with the top couple inches mounted up against the back of it. Definitely will fit below the top of it though, that I'm sure of. Interested to see how it works out.

Either way glad to see people seeing the light. The $1000+ "direct fit" options are just so wildly overpriced and unnecessary, they'd be out of place on big turbo 10 second monsters let alone 300hp bolt-on A4s.

[lettuce]

Edit: I ended up taking this can off after a month of it blowing out oil seals on my block, filling up my injector wells with oil and generally just wrecking havoc on my crankcase. I returned it and highly recommend not purchasing this kit. Details of my issues can be found scattered over the next few pages in this thread, and summarized in this thread here.

I wasn't planning on doing anything else on my car until spring, but another 50 degree weekend here up in Boston has me feeling pretty confident that there isn't actually going to be a winter this year. So I washed my car and then picked one of the things I've purchased but have been saving until Spring to spend the day installing on my car. That thing happened to be the ECS catch can kit.

The install only took maybe an hour and a half and has already been documented better than I ever could in the ECS install manual, but there were a couple small hangups along the way so I'll just highlight those to hopefully help out anyone planning on installing this kit.

First off, the kit comes with two nice metal plugs to cap off the line from the intake to the PCV. These plugs are nice, but they're held in by two flimsy plastic little clips, one of which snapped in half literally immediately as I was attempting to put it on.



I reached out to ECS about this and they're pretty good with sending out replacement hardware so I'm not too worried about it. I just have to hope that the PCV cap doesn't pop off in the meantime. It shouldn't as I don't believe the PCV outlet is too pressurized, and the plug itself is on there pretty firmly, so hopefully this is just a minor inconvenience.

[Edit: They got my email Monday morning and overnight shipped a replacement out that day. Today, one day later, it was on my steps waiting for me when I got home from work. Fantastic service by ECS.]

Then I ran into another minor issue where the bolts for the return line adapter that screws into the turbo were too long and wouldn't screw in all the way. This is probably accounted for by the fact that I have a Frankenturbo and not a stock K03, so it's likely that the stock turbo's screw holes are a bit deeper and can accommodate these screws (edit: apparently K03s and Frankenturbos both have similar depth on these bolt holes, the documentation or screws are just wrong). This ended up not being an issue because ECS also included two shorter but otherwise identical screws which I was able to use instead. These were supposed to be used to clamp the catch can itself down onto the radiator using its included brackets, but there were no clearance issues with the screw holes on that so I just used the longer screws for the can and the shorter ones for the turbo plate.



In this image I'm holding the stock hose plate on the top with both of its screws, and then the ECS adapter plate on the bottom. The screw on the right in the ECS plate is the longer screw it says to use, which you can see is much deeper than the stock screws. The screw on the left in the ECS plate is one of the shorter screws ECS shipped with the kit, which are ever so slightly shorter than the stock screws, so I just used those.

Lastly the feed line from the PCV is nearly impossible to get a wrench on once installed, so you're better off screwing the feed line into the PCV adapter plug and AN extension before you screw down the PCV adapter plug onto the valve cover. You might have to try a couple times to get the alignment of the hose right, but it's much easier this way.

Overall I'm pleased with the kit and would recommend it to anyone wanting a catch can kit while also wanting to retain the function of their stock PCV. My reasoning for wanting to retain the stock PCV was that while it may be more complicated and prone to failure than a solid metal plate like ones sold with other catch can kits, it's surely going to be better at filtering out oil before it gets to the catch can. If a piece of metal with zero check valves or diaphragms worked just as well as the complicated PCV valves Audi employs on our motors, I'm sure they would have just done that from the get-go. Anyway, here are a few pics from my installation.

[adamazing]

Then I ran into another minor issue where the bolts for the return line adapter that screws into the turbo were too long and wouldn't screw in all the way. This is probably accounted for by the fact that I have a Frankenturbo and not a stock K03, so it's likely that the stock turbo's screw holes are a bit deeper and can accommodate these screws. This ended up not being an issue because ECS also included two shorter but otherwise identical screws which I was able to use instead. These were supposed to be used to clamp the catch can itself down onto the radiator using its included brackets, but there were no clearance issues with the screw holes on that so I just used the longer screws for the can and the shorter ones for the turbo plate.



In this image I'm holding the stock hose plate on the top with both of its screws, and then the ECS adapter plate on the bottom. The screw on the right in the ECS plate is the longer screw it says to use, which you can see is much deeper than the stock screws. The screw on the left in the ECS plate is one of the shorter screws ECS shipped with the kit, which are ever so slightly shorter than the stock screws, so I just used those.

Same thing I ran into during my install. I posted about it in the original thread. I simply switched the cap screws in steps 25 and 31 as well.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11074139

[lettuce]

Same thing I ran into during my install. I posted about it in the original thread. I simply switched the cap screws in steps 25 and 31 as well.


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11074139

And you're currently running a stock K03, right? I guess it's not just my Frankenturbo then.

That was over 4 months ago you pointed that out, too. Wonder why they haven't updated their kit or documentation yet.

[b6Hate4]

Have you ran a catch can in winter before?

If not, check that bad boy weekly. They fill up fast in cold weather,

[blbroo]

Have you ran a catch can in winter before?

If not, check that bad boy weekly. They fill up fast in cold weather,

I dump mine at least once a week.

This is two and a half weeks worth of "catch" in a 1 quart bottle.

[b6Hate4]

I used to fill a 20oz soda bottle every 2 weeks. Though since my driving has gone from 25-30k a year to >10k a year it is obviously much less now.

[lettuce]

Have you ran a catch can in winter before?

If not, check that bad boy weekly. They fill up fast in cold weather,

I dump mine at least once a week.

This is two and a half weeks worth of "catch" in a 1 quart bottle.

Yeah the weather's been real mild around here lately which is why I didn't wait until Spring. Daily highs have been getting above freezing most of the winter so far. I'll still be checking it at least weekly for sure, especially at the rate I'm burning oil. I'm sure it'll still fill up pretty fast.

I'm just trying to think of what I'm going to do for longer road trips. I've taken trips a few hours up north and have burned a quart of oil each way. I'm thinking of setting up a removable auxiliary tank somewhere down low (even just something like an empty 2 liter soda bottle), and tapping in some kind of petcock to the bottom of the can to effectively increase the capacity of my catch can system. Either that or I'll just run a hose from the petcock down a frame rail and dump it on the road behind me as I drive. Depends on how environmentally-friendly I'm feeling.

[b6Hate4]

Yeah the weather's been real mild around here lately which is why I didn't wait until Spring. Daily highs have been getting above freezing most of the winter so far. I'll still be checking it at least weekly for sure, especially at the rate I'm burning oil. I'm sure it'll still fill up pretty fast.

I'm just trying to think of what I'm going to do for longer road trips. I've taken trips a few hours up north and have burned a quart of oil each way. I'm thinking of setting up a removable auxiliary tank somewhere down low (even just something like an empty 2 liter soda bottle), and tapping in some kind of petcock to the bottom of the can to effectively increase the capacity of my catch can system. Either that or I'll just run a hose from the petcock down a frame rail and dump it on the road behind me as I drive. Depends on how environmentally-friendly I'm feeling.

I think I've asked you this before but have you done a compression/ leakdown test? Because if it ain't slipping past the rings my question is where the hell is all that oil going lol.

I burn 1 quart every 2000 miles very steady now since 65k miles, I just hit 101k. I've noticed my front crank seal is sweeping a bit and my valve cover too, and my turbo probably is consuming some so once I get everything sorted I'll get a better idea of my engines health. I've been meaning to send in a sample to blackstone.

[lettuce]

I think I've asked you this before but have you done a compression/ leakdown test? Because if it ain't slipping past the rings my question is where the hell is all that oil going lol.

Yeah, my rings are junk.

Forgive me if I'm explaining something you already know (I figure it'll still be helpful for anyone else reading this as I don't think it's common knowledge), but while the problem with these Audis is the shitty piston rings, most of the oil that's getting burned in them isn't getting into the combustion chambers through the rings themselves.

What's happening is the rings aren't able to contain all the boost we're jamming into, compressing and then exploding in our combustion chambers, and that air fuel mixture/exhaust is getting blown through the rings into our crankcase. As I'm sure you know, this is referred to as blow-by (some blow-by on a turbo car is perfectly normal and unavoidable, just not the levels we see with our 2.0ts with bad rings). So now the crankcase is pressurized, and in the process of releasing that pressure (which is the job of the PCV system - aka Positive Crankcase Ventilation system) oil fumes/vapor/mist from the crankcase is getting blown out along with it. This then travels out of the PCV tubes and into our intakes (which is also what's causing all the carbon buildup on our valves), and then eventually into our combustion chambers where it's blown up or vaporized and send out our exhaust in thick plumes of smoke/mist when we're smoking V6 Accords (blbroo wouldn't know anything about this).

So that's what the stage 1 fix is all about on these cars. Audi updated the PCV valve to try to act as a band aid for our shitty rings by making them hold more pressure than originally intended. That's why the seals had to be updated along with it, because they would get blown out with the higher crankcase pressure from the new revised PCVs. That's also why I got this catch can, to hopefully catch some of the oil before it gets burned, reducing the amount of embarrassment I feel every time I step on the gas. I'll still be dumping oil into my engine as often as I do now but hopefully most of it will be getting emptied out of my can in liquid form instead of my exhaust tips in smoke form.

[Audi 4 Life]

Nice build OP, The only thing I would like to suggest is that you J-code those ugly ass yellow turn signals, lol

[lettuce]

Nice build OP, The only thing I would like to suggest is that you J-code those ugly ass yellow turn signals, lol

Thanks. I like my amber turn signals.

[Audi 4 Life]

really?! especially on black cars I think clear looks so good, but of course it doesn't matter what I think looks good on your car lol. Have you thought about trying to use some BG products to help your rings? They have a few good products that help clean top of pistons and clean the rings out might be something to consider. I Just got my B8 and don't currently have any issues burning oil but I was thinking I would carbon clean and flush the engine with some BG products as part of my tune up. Or you could always just use the excuse of bad rings to build the motor,

[Lambda13]

Thanks. I like my amber turn signals.

When you get around to building your 2.0 block let me know. I want to check it out in person/help if you don't mind?

[lettuce]

really?! especially on black cars I think clear looks so good, but of course it doesn't matter what I think looks good on your car lol. Have you thought about trying to use some BG products to help your rings? They have a few good products that help clean top of pistons and clean the rings out might be something to consider. I Just got my B8 and don't currently have any issues burning oil but I was thinking I would carbon clean and flush the engine with some BG products as part of my tune up. Or you could always just use the excuse of bad rings to build the motor,

Unfortunately no amount of canned liquids can fix my motor. No worries though, I have a new block en route to my house as we speak, should be here by Thursday.

When you get around to building your 2.0 block let me know. I want to check it out in person/help if you don't mind?

For sure. I'll be taking my time, doing the work over the next 5-6 months so there will be plenty of time to swing by and check it out. The block is fairly light too so maybe I'll just toss it in my trunk and bring it to a meet.

[blbroo]

I think I just found your soulmate

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/5387007189.html

[lettuce]

I think I just found your soulmate

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/5387007189.html

Jesus Christ, that's amazing.

[blbroo]

Jesus Christ, that's amazing.

"clean carfax" like that matters much when your exhaust goes out the hood.

[lettuce]

Let the games begin.

[Smellie]

Let the games begin.

Oh boy u craycray

[The Infiltrator]

Let the games begin.

Stop giving me ideas!

[A4 Centaur]

OOOH!! Such a teaser!

Still no fast women on here yet.

[shaunm82]

Let the games begin.

Awesome man! Plans for this bad boy? Or is that top secret info for now?

[roxta]

Yeah, my rings are junk.

Forgive me if I'm explaining something you already know (I figure it'll still be helpful for anyone else reading this as I don't think it's common knowledge), but while the problem with these Audis is the shitty piston rings, most of the oil that's getting burned in them isn't getting into the combustion chambers through the rings themselves.

What's happening is the rings aren't able to contain all the boost we're jamming into, compressing and then exploding in our combustion chambers, and that air fuel mixture/exhaust is getting blown through the rings into our crankcase. As I'm sure you know, this is referred to as blow-by (some blow-by on a turbo car is perfectly normal and unavoidable, just not the levels we see with our 2.0ts with bad rings). So now the crankcase is pressurized, and in the process of releasing that pressure (which is the job of the PCV system - aka Positive Crankcase Ventilation system) oil fumes/vapor/mist from the crankcase is getting blown out along with it. This then travels out of the PCV tubes and into our intakes (which is also what's causing all the carbon buildup on our valves), and then eventually into our combustion chambers where it's blown up or vaporized and send out our exhaust in thick plumes of smoke/mist when we're smoking V6 Accords (blbroo wouldn't know anything about this).

So that's what the stage 1 fix is all about on these cars. Audi updated the PCV valve to try to act as a band aid for our shitty rings by making them hold more pressure than originally intended. That's why the seals had to be updated along with it, because they would get blown out with the higher crankcase pressure from the new revised PCVs. That's also why I got this catch can, to hopefully catch some of the oil before it gets burned, reducing the amount of embarrassment I feel every time I step on the gas. I'll still be dumping oil into my engine as often as I do now but hopefully most of it will be getting emptied out of my can in liquid form instead of my exhaust tips in smoke form.

I just had my engine rebuilt. Was burning a litre every 1200km, then every 800km and just before the rebuild every 500km. My engine builder found the Pistons and bore to be within spec. He did find that my intake valve guides were worn and that was the cause of all my oil burning. Currently still in the break in phase, done 300km so far and MMI hasn't moved. Previously would have been past half empty. So maybe factor in some valve guides when you bite bullet with the rebuild.

[lettuce]

Awesome man! Plans for this bad boy? Or is that top secret info for now?

I would say it's top secret, but that'd just be a coverup for the fact that I just don't really know yet to be honest. The tentative plan is to just use it as a spring/summer project, casually building it up here and there in my free time with forged internals for an eventual big turbo build. I'm looking to toss it in before the track closes for the year, so around September or so, probably just with my current turbo to make sure everything works before doing the full BT build which will be a much bigger project by itself.

I just had my engine rebuilt. Was burning a litre every 1200km, then every 800km and just before the rebuild every 500km. My engine builder found the Pistons and bore to be within spec. He did find that my intake valve guides were worn and that was the cause of all my oil burning. Currently still in the break in phase, done 300km so far and MMI hasn't moved. Previously would have been past half empty. So maybe factor in some valve guides when you bite bullet with the rebuild.

Okay, so. I made this post yesterday in another thread:

What do you guys make of this? I emptied my catch can out today after driving with it in all week. I was expecting the thing to be full of thick black sludge but it was completely clear and smelled sorta like gasoline.



I'm still puffing smoke every time I hit the gas. How is this catch can not catching any of it?? Where is it coming from????

So basically I'm now kicking myself for not doing more diagnostic work sooner in regards to my oil consumption. I basically just assumed it was the rings due to the reputation of these cars. But the fact that's there's not a single speck of oil in my catch can after a week of driving and blowing smoke out my tailpipes tells me it's almost certainly a problem with my valve seals and/or guides instead.

So last night I ordered a full set of Integrated Engineering valve seals, some gaskets, and I'm looking into maybe valve guides too. I'll toss em in next weekend and see if that solves my problem. If it does, my engine build might lose a bit of priority, as I was mostly going to do that for oil consumption reasons over performance reasons. The block and crank only cost me $390 shipped so I'm not too worried about it. I'll use it eventually regardless, but I just wish I thought of this earlier so I could have spared myself the embarrassment of blowing all the smoke I've been blowing the past 9 months.

[b6Hate4]

In for results from valve seals. That will be interesting to see.

[lettuce]

So it's been about two weeks since the catch can install and I still have yet to pull a single drop of oil out of the thing. There's almost no way my rings need replacing. So I got all the stuff in I'll need to change out my valve seals (I think), but I think I'm going to wait till next weekend to do them. I was going to do them this weekend but the Accuweather 'Real Feel' is -15 right now and is dropping pretty quickly. Supposed to hit -40 tonight and tomorrow's going to be worse than today so fuck that. Next Saturday is going to hit 50 degrees so that'll be perfect.



Shitty pic, but I got my intake and exhaust valve seals (got an extra couple just in case, should only need 8 each), valve keeper remover/installer, valve seal pliers (actually spark plug pliers, but should work just the same), upper timing cover gasket, front cam seal gasket, Permatex anaerobic gasket maker for the valve cover (not pictured), and an air line (which came with a compression tester, which I'll also be using to check my cylinder compression finally) to hook up my compressor to my spark plug holes to pressurize my combustion chambers, which will keep my valves from dropping, allowing me to change the seals with the head on the car with minimal fuss.

I've found a few vague discussions on valve cover and camshaft removal on our cars, but no in-depth writeups, so I'll be winging it slightly and will try to document my process with pictures and as many details as I can. The only thing I'm worried about is whether or not the valve cover bolts are stretch bolts, as the valve cover effectively acts as an upper cam bearing cap since the cam is sandwiched directly between it and the head with no actual replaceable bearings or anything, so I may pick some of those up as well this week before I do the install.

If anybody has any experience with this on these cars, or knows of any threads or places where I can get info, please don't hesitate to post them up here in the meantime as I'll be looking for all the tips I can get before I get started next weekend.

The seals are also a lot smaller than I thought they'd be:



Oh and I also have this which will be getting installed once it gets a bit warmer as well.

[Fastbke170]

I have a 2012 a4 and had the dealer replace a weeping valve cover gasket. I'm friends with the mechanic who did the job. He had the car 3 days as apparently the cover requires the timing chain to be removed. The job gave him fits and he's an audi tech. You've done so much on your car already, but just a heads up this might be the biggest pita. Good luck sir.

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

[lettuce]

I have a 2012 a4 and had the dealer replace a weeping valve cover gasket. I'm friends with the mechanic who did the job. He had the car 3 days as apparently the cover requires the timing chain to be removed. The job gave him fits and he's an audi tech. You've done so much on your car already, but just a heads up this might be the biggest pita. Good luck sir.

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

Thanks dude. The timing chain is wrapped around the sprockets attached to the end of the cams which have to come out in order to pop the springs off to change the valve seals, so that's all been taken into account. The seals and springs themselves should pop off and back on in a matter of minutes, but yeah the time I'll have to spend messing with the timing stuff is probably going to account for most of the job. I'll have all weekend to figure it out though so it shouldn't be too bad.

[19birel]

Besides you're valve seals being cooked, is there anything else wrong with the car or that has gone wrong? I ask because if I'm not mistaken your have over 120k miles on this thing which probably makes you one of the highest mileage cars here, so I'm curious what issues might plague these cars as they age, especially considering what you've done to increase performance.

That water/meth kit looks good too, it'll be interesting to see how much your track times improve once you get that all setup.

[lettuce]

Besides you're valve seals being cooked, is there anything else wrong with the car or that has gone wrong? I ask because if I'm not mistaken your have over 120k miles on this thing which probably makes you one of the highest mileage cars here, so I'm curious what issues might plague these cars as they age, especially considering what you've done to increase performance.

That water/meth kit looks good too, it'll be interesting to see how much your track times improve once you get that all setup.

125k as of now. No problems at all besides the oil consumption, but I did quite a bit of maintenance work on it when I got it. The carbon cleaning was certainly good to do, I replaced the in-tank fuel filter which I believe was somewhat clogged and causing some sputtering but not 100% on that, the stock turbo (2nd one actually. original was replaced by the previous owner at around 75k) was losing boost due to the loose wastegate, the stock diaphragm-type diverter valves are pretty crap, but mine was already replaced with a piston type and my upgrade to the GFB DV+ was probably a good idea with the setup I'm running now, my driver's side heated seat doesn't work so that sucks, and that's about it.

Since doing all this work and tracking it it's been running like a dream. No real issues to speak of stemming from the added power, but of course a lot of the potential problem areas were taken care of before I got to this point. Overall it's been a pretty solid and reliable car. If these new valve seals fix my oil consumption problem I'll be on cloud 9 as that's the only thing I really have to complain about with this thing. That and the fact I'm not running 11s, but I'm working on that.

[19birel]

125k as of now. No problems at all besides the oil consumption, but I did quite a bit of maintenance work on it when I got it. The carbon cleaning was certainly good to do, I replaced the in-tank fuel filter which I believe was somewhat clogged and causing some sputtering but not 100% on that, the stock turbo (2nd one actually. original was replaced by the previous owner at around 75k) was losing boost due to the loose wastegate, the stock diaphragm-type diverter valves are pretty crap, but mine was already replaced with a piston type and my upgrade to the GFB DV+ was probably a good idea with the setup I'm running now, my driver's side heated seat doesn't work so that sucks, and that's about it.

Since doing all this work and tracking it it's been running like a dream. No real issues to speak of stemming from the added power, but of course a lot of the potential problem areas were taken care of before I got to this point. Overall it's been a pretty solid and reliable car. If these new valve seals fix my oil consumption problem I'll be on cloud 9 as that's the only thing I really have to complain about with this thing. That and the fact I'm not running 11s, but I'm working on that.

I sympathize with you on the heated seat, mine quit working as well and after messing around with the heating element I got the bolsters to heat, but those stopped working again too haha

That's great to hear that's it's been otherwise reliable though, especially at that mileage. Maintenance with cars like this seems to be the deciding factor as to whether or not they remain dependable cars as they grow old or become nightmarish money pits instead. That water/meth will definitely get you closer to the 11s, and the new block should definitely have you running some killer times once you get that built up

[A4 Centaur]

I would assume that the valve cover is a stressed member of the valve train. Great write up thus far and the E888 engine isn't that bad really compared to some others. Seems it is quite complex in some ways.

Getting guides and seals done with a new head will be my goal since I'm gonna keep my Avant for a while. Thanks for your efforts and posting the info up!

[lettuce]

Something terrible just happened.

Was doing some fun stuff to my car when I noticed a couple drops of oil underneath my engine. Checked it out and it looked like it was coming from my oil return line to my turbo. No biggie, went in to tighten it up and the fecking head just snapped off.



Held up next to the offending hole on my spare block for reference:



Just turned a fun little weekend project into an emergency fuck off repair.

[blbroo]

Something terrible just happened.

Was doing some fun stuff to my car when I noticed a couple drops of oil underneath my engine. Checked it out and it looked like it was coming from my oil return line to my turbo. No biggie, went in to tighten it up and the fecking head just snapped off.



Held up next to the offending hole on my spare block for reference:



Just turned a fun little weekend project into an emergency fuck off repair.

Crap! I hate when that kind of stuff happens to me, and it has a few times.


.

[Alex1188]

Something terrible just happened.

Was doing some fun stuff to my car when I noticed a couple drops of oil underneath my engine. Checked it out and it looked like it was coming from my oil return line to my turbo. No biggie, went in to tighten it up and the fecking head just snapped off.

Held up next to the offending hole on my spare block for reference:

Just turned a fun little weekend project into an emergency fuck off repair.

I swear ive snapped more bolt heads on this car than all my cars combined. Another one i had was the bolts that hold the intake manifold on...when i went to put them back in, they wouldnt tighten up due to the threads in the head being stripped out.

Glad to see you got it fixed tho!