The Infiltrators Build Thread

**2010b8a4apr2** · 02-12-2017 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by lettuce

Replacing the actuator rod won't do anything to fix this issue on these turbos, as the rod isn't the problem. It only making sound on deceleration is also exactly what happens when this is the cause. I never threw codes either and mine was pretty bad and on its second factory turbo due to this. You should check for rod play, any movement at all and that's your problem. Only takes a few seconds, just make sure your car's cooled down as you're sticking your fingers between exhaust manifold runners.

It's a design flaw on these turbos, it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when. I'd be surprised if most of the people reading this didn't have this very problem on their own factory turbos in some capacity as we speak. It's why Audi extended the warranty on them.

I actually have replaced the wastegate on the stock turbo with an adjustable one to hold the flapper tighter. it worked great.

**2010b8a4apr2** · 02-12-2017 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

So there's no way to fix it huh? Well, it's either go APR, CTS or HPA with Snow Performance W/M. I've been watching and reading threads for a long time and still can't fully decide.

APR: Good numbers and on sale for $2600
http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_...si_vl_k04.html

CTS: K04 and HFC on sale for $2159 without tune. Not sure what a tune alone would cost. Probably best to go with the APR setup.
http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/product...it-3639-0.html

OR

HPA: K04, IM, HFC, Tune and Dongle for $2549. Their tune is still in work and having people send them data logs to get it right. The numbers look good from the thread below, even on 92 octane but still makes me wonder with little testing. Could they get more power out of it in the end? Maybe, but with the intake manifold added, the numbers aren't going to be off by much from APR without an intake manifold. That's sad... So far.
http://www.hpamotorsports.com/product_k04.html
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ifold-K04-Tune

Snow Performance W/M: I'd get with either setup.
http://www.lethalperformance.com/sno...st-cooler.html

It is an option too but with all the sales I wouldn't do it. but my setup was frankenturbo f23l $1500 and APR tune $900.

though now that hpa has a tune for their manifold, im tempted to try it with the ie manifold

**The Infiltrator** · 02-13-2017 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by 2010b8a4apr2

It is an option too but with all the sales I wouldn't do it. but my setup was frankenturbo f23l $1500 and APR tune $900.

though now that hpa has a tune for their manifold, im tempted to try it with the ie manifold

I'm just not too sure about F23l or HPA yet since it seems they aren't dialed in just yet. HPA is still having people send them data logs with power under what the APR setup and tune makes without the IM. I've been reading these threads for a couple years now and not too sure which way I want to go just yet. Probably just play it safe and go with CTS setup with APR tune since it'll save me with their loyalty program.

Frankenturbo F23l link I've followed:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...nkenturbo-f23l

**lettuce** · 02-13-2017 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

I'm just not too sure about F23l or HPA yet since it seems they aren't dialed in just yet.

I've never driven a more "dialed in" car than my F23L/Eurodyne A4. I personally can't imagine a more refined, monster of a car.

**The Infiltrator** · 02-13-2017 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by lettuce

I've never driven a more "dialed in" car than my F23L/Eurodyne A4. I personally can't imagine a more refined, monster of a car.

Yeah I forgot to add your thread to the F23L links. I've been watching yours for sometime now too and like your results. I'm currently reading through it now for at wheel numbers if you have them. I see Smellie is with CTS K04/APR 100 oct K04 Tune | 329whp/348wtq | 12.35 @ 110. @Smellie
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post10956222

**lettuce** · 02-13-2017 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

Yeah I forgot to add your thread to the F23L links. I've been watching yours for sometime now too and like your results. I'm currently reading through it now for at wheel numbers if you have them. I see Smellie is with CTS K04/APR 100 oct K04 Tune | 329whp/348wtq | 12.35 @ 110. @Smellie
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post10956222

I've never dyno'd my car, only tracked it. The one time I hit the track with my meth system on I trapped 109 with just the regular 93 octane tune.

**The Infiltrator** · 02-13-2017 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by lettuce

I've never dyno'd my car, only tracked it. The one time I hit the track with my meth system on I trapped 109 with just the regular 93 octane tune.

Do you plan on putting it on a dyno and do you plan to adding a W/M system? I'm not sure which way to honestly go, K04/APR Tune or F23L/Eurodyne Tune.

**lettuce** · 02-13-2017 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

Do you plan on putting it on a dyno and do you plan to adding a W/M system? I'm not sure which way to honestly go, K04/APR Tune or F23L/Eurodyne Tune.

I have no plans to dyno the car and I have a water meth system in my car.

**The Infiltrator** · 02-13-2017 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by lettuce

I have no plans to dyno the car and I have a water meth system in my car.

Any reason? I saw you had one as I read a little more through your long ass build thread.

Love your work man. It's time for me to sit back and think about this and what route I'll take, but I have time since I'm not losing power, just the sound it makes. Either way I think I'll be pretty happy with the new setup and make my car feel a little more complete in the engine area.

Looks like the F23L didn't workout for many. Seems to be good for you but it seems to be hit or miss.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...my-B8-A4/page3

**Zach L** · 02-13-2017 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

I'm not sure which way to honestly go, K04/APR Tune or F23L/Eurodyne Tune.

If there's any chance a true big turbo is a possibility down the road, I'd go with Eurodyne as they are the ones doing the tunes for the Pag Parts A4 TSI EFR kits. Transverse applications are already on the road and the first longitudinal version is almost complete.

Capture.jpg

**The Infiltrator** · 02-13-2017 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Zach L

If there's any chance a true big turbo is a possibility down the road, I'd go with Eurodyne as they are the ones doing the tunes for the Pag Parts A4 TSI EFR kits. Transverse applications are already on the road and the first longitudinal version is almost complete.

Capture.jpg

I've never heard of that company, Pag. Are they putting these applications on the road for testing or is it their final product? Weird that others are still pushing the EFR but APR gave up, just weird to me.

**Zach L** · 02-13-2017 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

I've never heard of that company, Pag. Are they putting these applications on the road for testing or is it their final product? Weird that others are still pushing the EFR but APR gave up, just weird to me.

You won't find any bad reviews. Builds are not the cheapest, but they do everything WAY top quality. Small company and you will talk directly with him. Check out FB, website is not that great. Here's a recent build and good review of the customer support and how he does business: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ekyll-amp-Hyde

**The Infiltrator** · 02-13-2017 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Zach L

You won't find any bad reviews. Builds are not the cheapest, but they do everything WAY top quality. Small company and you will talk directly with him. Check out FB, website is not that great. Here's a recent build and good review of the customer support and how he does business: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ekyll-amp-Hyde

Hmm, I'll look into them but to be honest I'm thinking about going HPA with the full kit and W/M setup and calling it a day.

**Turbavanttro** · 02-13-2017 10:56 AM

Sounds like a nice build. The HPA hardware looks really good, but have they really sorted the tuning for our B8.5? (I haven't done enough searching to confirm). When I'm ready, I'm going to consider building an EFR 7163 and having Jeff at UM tune it.

**The Infiltrator** · 02-13-2017 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Turbavanttro

Sounds like a nice build. The HPA hardware looks really good, but have they really sorted the tuning for our B8.5? (I haven't done enough searching to confirm). When I'm ready, I'm going to consider building an EFR 7163 and having Jeff at UM tune it.

Not sure about B8.5 but the B8 it seems to be smoothing out and the numbers are looking pretty good. So far this kit has the best numbers and the guy's on 92 octane, I could only imagine what this kit would do with a W/M system. Since this car will be kind of a daily driver I'm not sure the EFR would be good for me.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ifold-K04-Tune

**Zach L** · 02-13-2017 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

Hmm, I'll look into them but to be honest I'm thinking about going HPA with the full kit and W/M setup and calling it a day.

The metal manifolds are nice for welding in bungs for water/meth and extra injectors. They also are nice for aesthetics. On naturally aspirated vehicles, such manifolds can really help with power. But for turbocharged vehicles, subtle changes in parts' flow characteristics (from such a part like HPA's manifold or even TOPs) have always and will always do little for power figures. That's because power figures are overwhelming the result of the turbocharger chosen and the boost requested. Outside of that, changing parts will have an almost negligible effect. That said, the HPA manifold is not worth the extra hassle of their current tuning arrangement "solution" and decreased tuning options should you want to change in the future IMO. No matter how well-made it is, it's just a money maker for them and has yet to show any proven benefit in power over cars without the manifold.

**The Infiltrator** · 02-17-2017 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Zach L

The metal manifolds are nice for welding in bungs for water/meth and extra injectors. They also are nice for aesthetics. On naturally aspirated vehicles, such manifolds can really help with power. But for turbocharged vehicles, subtle changes in parts' flow characteristics (from such a part like HPA's manifold or even TOPs) have always and will always do little for power figures. That's because power figures are overwhelming the result of the turbocharger chosen and the boost requested. Outside of that, changing parts will have an almost negligible effect. That said, the HPA manifold is not worth the extra hassle of their current tuning arrangement "solution" and decreased tuning options should you want to change in the future IMO. No matter how well-made it is, it's just a money maker for them and has yet to show any proven benefit in power over cars without the manifold.

I'm sure you've seen my posts on the K04 thread and W/M thread. I'm still back and forth on the numbers between these two setups and kind of sitting on it and trying to wait a little longer. I know the CTS BOSS is coming, maybe, but I think I'm leaning more towards K04 now for my daily driver.
http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_...si_vl_k04.html
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ifold-K04-Tune

**Zach L** · 02-17-2017 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

I'm sure you've seen my posts on the K04 thread and W/M thread. I'm still back and forth on the numbers between these two setups and kind of sitting on it and trying to wait a little longer. I know the CTS BOSS is coming, maybe, but I think I'm leaning more towards K04 now for my daily driver.
http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_...si_vl_k04.html
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ifold-K04-Tune

Even if the HPA kit has substantially more power (which hasn't been proved) I still wouldn't get it because it'd basically be restricting myself to HPA's software indefinitely. What if a couple months after a company comes out with a tune that's even more smooth and powerful... that tune will be for a factory manifold. What if someone writes a Maestro tune that works great with water/meth and makes a ton of power and is smooth. Basically you'd have to ignore the trial and error and work that went into that tune. Sure you could buy the w/m kit, duplicate their nozzle sizes and everything else, yet you wouldn't be able to utilize their knowledge and work they put forth toward the software. You'd have to do all that again yourself just because of the intake manifold. Of course that's fine for some people, but not most and probably not someone looking for known outcomes for their daily driver.

**The Infiltrator** · 02-17-2017 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Zach L

Even if the HPA kit has substantially more power (which hasn't been proved) I still wouldn't get it because it'd basically be restricting myself to HPA's software indefinitely. What if a couple months after a company comes out with a tune that's even more smooth and powerful... that tune will be for a factory manifold. What if someone writes a Maestro tune that works great with water/meth and makes a ton of power and is smooth. Basically you'd have to ignore the trial and error and work that went into that tune. Sure you could buy the w/m kit, duplicate their nozzle sizes and everything else, yet you wouldn't be able to utilize their knowledge and work they put forth toward the software. You'd have to do all that again yourself just because of the intake manifold. Of course that's fine for some people, but not most and probably not someone looking for known outcomes for their daily driver.

I'm just looking at it this way, inNout's results put out more power than APR and he's running 92 octane. Yes some people are still running logs and it's obviuos they don't have everything set just yet, so I'm just saying I want to see what comes of it in the next couple months. If nothing comes of it and no one replies to anything about it on here, I'll just go the CTS K04/APR Tune or just get everything from APR. I've been with APR since I bought my car May 2010 and I have nothing but good things to say about them, so I'd like to stay with them especially since I would get a discount with them. Time will tell and to be honest, I'm tired of waiting so we'll see if I even last those couple months.

Also from what I have read the CTS and APR K04 put out the same power so I'm not sure which one, I'll go with the cheapest I guess.

I actually might hold out for this mod.

**Marko S** · 02-17-2017 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Zach L

Even if the HPA kit has substantially more power (which hasn't been proved) I still wouldn't get it because it'd basically be restricting myself to HPA's software indefinitely. What if a couple months after a company comes out with a tune that's even more smooth and powerful... that tune will be for a factory manifold. What if someone writes a Maestro tune that works great with water/meth and makes a ton of power and is smooth. Basically you'd have to ignore the trial and error and work that went into that tune. Sure you could buy the w/m kit, duplicate their nozzle sizes and everything else, yet you wouldn't be able to utilize their knowledge and work they put forth toward the software. You'd have to do all that again yourself just because of the intake manifold. Of course that's fine for some people, but not most and probably not someone looking for known outcomes for their daily driver.

Tunnel vision or what? What if you buy the hpa k04 and hfc without the IM? Apr tune should work..? No its hasnt been tested but why wouldnt it work?

There is a much much higher chance that the kit with IM makes more power than a tune even more powerful and smooth..also more of a chance that someone write a maestro tune for an IM because typically those who use Maestro are trying to push thei engines to the limit and would want to have all the hardware at their disposal to make the best results ie. People with the IE manifold playing around with Maestro.. people with K04 have OFS tunes and wont bother.

Starting to think you work for apr..?

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

**pierreb** · 02-17-2017 07:45 PM

I love my APR k04. I know the HPA is a bitch to diy install judging from the feedback from John up the road from me. No matter what you'll be happy with the car's performance. Don't sweat 10hp here or there.

**The Infiltrator** · 02-18-2017 05:11 AM

I ordered my W/M system yesterday and I think my mind has been made. CTS K04 and APR Tune will be ordered in the next month or so. I have to get through this move and job change first.

**Zach L** · 02-18-2017 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Marko S

Tunnel vision or what? What if you buy the hpa k04 and hfc without the IM? Apr tune should work..? No its hasnt been tested but why wouldnt it work?

There is a much much higher chance that the kit with IM makes more power than a tune even more powerful and smooth..also more of a chance that someone write a maestro tune for an IM because typically those who use Maestro are trying to push thei engines to the limit and would want to have all the hardware at their disposal to make the best results ie. People with the IE manifold playing around with Maestro.. people with K04 have OFS tunes and wont bother.

Starting to think you work for apr..?

Haha if you only knew what I've posted about APR in my 14 years on VW/Audi forums lol. Not a fan of their forum behavior and communication techniques. Not a fan of their tactics to cover up things that go wrong. That said, some of their products are quality pieces, and some of them are even a not-so-bad value. Nothing wrong with their B8 K04 kit, and that's what's been relevant to this discussion. Not all the other crap, which is why I haven't mentioned it.

OP has already mentioned he'd like to stay with APR unless a compelling reason for doing otherwise.

**VNA4** · 02-18-2017 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

I ordered my W/M system yesterday and I think my mind has been made. CTS K04 and APR Tune will be ordered in the next month or so. I have to get through this move and job change first.

Which WM kit did you end up going with

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

**The Infiltrator** · 02-19-2017 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by VNA4

Which WM kit did you end up going with

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

It's on the first page of my build, post 2. I got the Snow Performance Stage II kit. It's on sale and when you create a user name they send you another discount to use on top of it. So it was $373 in the end, pretty good deal.

**jaycurn** · 02-19-2017 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

It's on the first page of my build, post 2. I got the Snow Performance Stage II kit. It's on sale and when you create a user name they send you another discount to use on top of it. So it was $373 in the end, pretty good deal.

That's not bad at all! Do you plan to DIY the install? Curious to know how involved this is, as I'd love to add this to my KO4 setup!

**The Infiltrator** · 02-19-2017 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by jaycurn

That's not bad at all! Do you plan to DIY the install? Curious to know how involved this is, as I'd love to add this to my KO4 setup!

I do my own work so yeah I'm going to do it. It shouldn't be too bad and might just install it before the K04 to knock it out, maybe even carbon clean while I'm at it.

My plan is to install the CTS K04 and Snow Performace W/M system then drive it up to APR's main place in Auburn for K04 tune. Then maybe see if we can throw it on their dyno and tweak anything that we can to get it set perfect.

**VNA4** · 02-19-2017 02:05 PM

Sounds nice! Ima pull the trigger on the same kit as yours. Unfortunately I would have to get it installed an pay for major labor.
I wonder if the install has to be from a well known shop or any mechanics could do it. I know a mechanic that can do anything but I'm just paranoid that if there is a slight error something could catch fire or explode.

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

**Militant-Grunt** · 02-19-2017 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

I've never heard of that company, Pag. Are they putting these applications on the road for testing or is it their final product? Weird that others are still pushing the EFR but APR gave up, just weird to me.

I made 621whp on Pag Parts kit on my 1.8t. No ones kit comes remotely close in terms of build quality and reliability.

His 5935r paired with his manifold and other goodies.

**The Infiltrator** · 02-19-2017 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by VNA4

Sounds nice! Ima pull the trigger on the same kit as yours. Unfortunately I would have to get it installed an pay for major labor.
I wonder if the install has to be from a well known shop or any mechanics could do it. I know a mechanic that can do anything but I'm just paranoid that if there is a slight error something could catch fire or explode.

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

Lol, yeah I hear that man. I need to read up more on what setting I need to have the W/M at so nothing messes up on me.

Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt

I made 621whp on Pag Parts kit on my 1.8t. No ones kit comes remotely close in terms of build quality and reliability.

His 5935r paired with his manifold and other goodies.

Holy crap that's bad ass! Those older models are monsters and wonder if the B8 will be there one day.

**hyperunion** · 02-19-2017 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

Lol, yeah I hear that man. I need to read up more on what setting I need to have the W/M at so nothing messes up on me.

Holy crap that's bad ass! Those older models are monsters and wonder if the B8 will be there one day.

That ,20v motor is a classic beast

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

**Zach L** · 02-19-2017 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by The Infiltrator

I do my own work so yeah I'm going to do it. It shouldn't be too bad and might just install it before the K04 to knock it out, maybe even carbon clean while I'm at it.

My plan is to install the CTS K04 and Snow Performace W/M system then drive it up to APR's main place in Auburn for K04 tune. Then maybe see if we can throw it on their dyno and tweak anything that we can to get it set perfect.

Do you have a baseline dyno run on a local dyno already, so that you can do a comparison dyno after the K04 and w/m installs? If you don't, please get one before install!

**The Infiltrator** · 02-20-2017 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Zach L

Do you have a baseline dyno run on a local dyno already, so that you can do a comparison dyno after the K04 and w/m installs? If you don't, please get one before install!

Definitely, I was actually searching last night and found a place I'll be hitting up before installing the W/M and K04. I'd like to see where the car's at right now before adding those two things and then I'll post it up on here with the results.

http://emeraldcoastmotorsports.com/dynotime.html

**The Infiltrator** · 02-21-2017 01:40 PM

Looks like a pretty straight forward kit. I just don't like the red W/M lines, they look cheap and thin for the price you pay. I'll be replacing those before I install this thing and can't wait to do so.

Spacer:
http://www.awdmotorsports.com/product_p/TS-TBS-030B.htm

W/M Kit:
https://thmotorsports.com/snow-perfo...i-2152107.aspx

**VNA4** · 02-21-2017 02:28 PM

Oh nice! Exciting time...exciting time! Make a DIY if u can

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

**jaycurn** · 02-21-2017 03:23 PM

Yaaasssss! I am on the verge of buying this same kit for the "tax" sale price. Very interested to see how the install goes!

**The Infiltrator** · 02-22-2017 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by VNA4

Oh nice! Exciting time...exciting time! Make a DIY if u can

Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

I'll see what I can do.

Originally Posted by jaycurn

Yaaasssss! I am on the verge of buying this same kit for the "tax" sale price. Very interested to see how the install goes!

Do it!

I won't be installing this for at least a month but when I do, I'll be posting it all on here.

My plan is to dyno my car with Stage II and the mods I have now so I can see what numbers I'm pushing before the big install. I'll be installing Snow Performance W/M, APR K04 and APR tune. I'd like to drive up to the APR headquarters for the K04 tune and put it on the dyno to see the final numbers and if at all possible work some more numbers out of it.

@Arin@APR
How does that sound to you? Can you guys upload the tune for the K04 and put it on the dyno there to see what we get out of it? It'll have the W/M setup for the 100 octane file too.