"APR - Deception, Coverups, and Lies"

[Arin@APR]

I believe most of the posts gave APR ample time to respond to the issue and I believe they fell short when they did.

We do want everyone to know we are taking your concerns seriously and are looking to get a better response to the questions being asked. Please understand we're working with the appropriate parties to ensure this happens and are not intentionally delaying the response.

Some may have missed some of our discussion points earlier in this thread, so if that's the case, please read the statement below:

All of the exhaust systems we sell with "RSC" in the name are manufactured by Corsa and do contain RSC technology. We've confirmed this information with Corsa again due to all the recent claims otherwise. RSC technology is designed to eliminate unwanted frequencies, considered "drone," and our customers can attest to this being true. The greatest concern being discussed is related to the appearance of the RSC technology. Corsa has explained RSC technology will vary in appearance from system to system, depending on the frequencies that need removed, and other things like packaging constraints. Some vehicle applications must use large and heavy RSC technology, while other systems have the luxury of using smaller, lighter RSC technology. In each case the end goal is to remove drone, and thus far, that's the case.

Thank you,

-Arin

[theedge111]

Another vote that this thread should 100% be in the main B8 S4 Forum and not hidden in the chatterbox!

[F40LM]

Should not be hidden. Vote #1 zillion

[crew219]

We do want everyone to know we are taking your concerns seriously and are looking to get a better response to the questions being asked. Please understand we're working with the appropriate parties to ensure this happens and are not intentionally delaying the response.

Some may have missed some of our discussion points earlier in this thread, so if that's the case, please read the statement below:


Thank you,

-Arin

The issues I see with you coming up with an explanation are:

1) APR knew about this for years and have indicated that Corsa designs these exhausts in conjunction with APR
2) APR requested a material change from 304L to 400 stainless
3) APR took those photos and provided them to me
4) Corsa has dropped APR and the exhaust inventory left in your possession is "APR's problem"
5) Numerous contradictory statements by both Arin & Sean@APR
6) How can you explain customers waiting for months for RMA replacements / being rejected when APR has inventory of the exhaust?
7) APR's immediate plan being to clear out these Corsa exhausts in preparation for the outsourced exhausts provided by a certain employee which I introduced to APR.
8) Distributors are unhappy due to the deception surrounding the exhausts in addition to the new distribution policies which require higher minimum order quantities (offloading these exhausts onto distributors)

Keep in mind that I have numerous conversations in my possession with APR employees ridiculing the Corsa product which I will not hesitate to release in the event that your official "response" is contrary to the truth.

How are those superchargers coming along?

Dave

[paul]

High five Dave!

[Anthony]

Wow!!! Been following this thread and was shocked to see it got moved with no explanation. I AM a longtime APR customer but this latest action has certainly given me reason to pause. I believe most of the posts gave APR ample time to respond to the issue and I believe they fell short when they did. They still have a chance to redeem themselves by tackling this head on ...hopefully they do. Don't get defensive, maybe just be contrite as we all screwup occasionally.

The least the moderators could have done was to give us some logic behind the reason for moving the thread...really sad. I vote with the others that this thread be moved back to the page it deserves to be on not hidden away. Mods...Moving the thread only hurts APR from our pont of view and not help them if this was the logic . It also only makes it harder for them to redeem themselves in the eyes of Their many longtime customers.

When this thread was moved last night, it contained no photos or really any relevant to discussion of anything B8 S4 related. Since then, that has changed, and I've decided to move it back.

I've also been in discussion with both Sean and Arin at APR, trying to personally get to the bottom of all this.

Will be taking further action as necessary once all the facts are in.

[drob23]

Respect for doing the right thing here.

[Amorphic]

Respect for doing the right thing here.

Totally. +1

[oascom]

im voting to move it back.

[USAFS4]

Returned to the appropriate forum for all to see. So that the consumer may decide for themselves what to think. Win one for free speech.

As to this thread. I have APR products that have worked out great (B5 & B8 tunes). However, I must admit that there is plenty of evidence that APR went off the rails a bit as a company over the past couple of years. IMHO I would think new management would be wise to come clean as best they can legally about any prior transgressions. However that has not appeared to have happened. Perhaps it would be best for APR to break apart, and separate successful product lines from failed ones, but maybe it is too late for that.

[oascom]

When this thread was moved last night, it contained no photos or really any relevant to discussion of anything B8 S4 related. Since then, that has changed, and I've decided to move it back.

I've also been in discussion with both Sean and Arin at APR, trying to personally get to the bottom of all this.

Will be taking further action as necessary once all the facts are in.

thanks for moving it back.

[jl87]

I've also been in discussion with both Sean and Arin at APR, trying to personally get to the bottom of all this.

Will be taking further action as necessary once all the facts are in.

I think we can all appreciate this.

[dirtydub]

Respect for doing the right thing here.

Much respect on doing the right thing for previous and/or future customers!

[jdmnomore]

I remember when I purchased my b6 S4 back in 08 APR seemed like one of they only viable options for aftermarket performance upgrades.
As I researched and patiently waited a new company emerged and as they tested and released products one by one, competitor products such as APRs quickly became obsolete and now you cant pay someone to purchase an APR product on a b6/b7 S4. I thought it was isolated as the APR SC seemed promising but low and behold. I am really surprised by this and hope for APRs sake that this isnt as bad as it looks.

[mr shickadance]

When this thread was moved last night, it contained no photos or really any relevant to discussion of anything B8 S4 related. Since then, that has changed, and I've decided to move it back.

I've also been in discussion with both Sean and Arin at APR, trying to personally get to the bottom of all this.

Will be taking further action as necessary once all the facts are in.

Fwiw for everyone jumping down the admins throat should seriously reread the forum rules.

It's been no secret that you can't link to other forums that's why the links likely got removed. This goes back as far as I can remember and while a few links sometimes make it through understand the mods are human beings.

And when it got moved it really did belong in the chatterbox as it had everything with other cars not s4s. There are threads moved everyday and while it's never this serious ( because this is some shit!) it's usually moved with good reason.

I understand everyone is really mad at apr but try not to take it out on the mods they do a thankless job and shouldn't get the brunt of it.

[ENV²]

When this thread was moved last night, it contained no photos or really any relevant to discussion of anything B8 S4 related. Since then, that has changed, and I've decided to move it back.

I've also been in discussion with both Sean and Arin at APR, trying to personally get to the bottom of all this.

Will be taking further action as necessary once all the facts are in.

Thank you Anthony

[13ttaz]

The issues I see with you coming up with an explanation are:

1) APR knew about this for years and have indicated that Corsa designs these exhausts in conjunction with APR
2) APR requested a material change from 304L to 400 stainless
3) APR took those photos and provided them to me
4) Corsa has dropped APR and the exhaust inventory left in your possession is "APR's problem"
5) Numerous contradictory statements by both Arin & Sean@APR
6) How can you explain customers waiting for months for RMA replacements / being rejected when APR has inventory of the exhaust?
7) APR's immediate plan being to clear out these Corsa exhausts in preparation for the outsourced exhausts provided by a certain employee which I introduced to APR.
8) Distributors are unhappy due to the deception surrounding the exhausts in addition to the new distribution policies which require higher minimum order quantities (offloading these exhausts onto distributors)

Keep in mind that I have numerous conversations in my possession with APR employees ridiculing the Corsa product which I will not hesitate to release in the event that your official "response" is contrary to the truth.

How are those superchargers coming along?

Dave

Check . . . . or is it Checkmate?

[hyperunion]

Thanks Anthony.... Us b8 a4 guys are keeping tabs and appreciate your steadfastness...
We as well support all you s4 guys to get this resolved...

[S4 00 2.7]

When this thread was moved last night, it contained no photos or really any relevant to discussion of anything B8 S4 related. Since then, that has changed, and I've decided to move it back.

I've also been in discussion with both Sean and Arin at APR, trying to personally get to the bottom of all this.

Will be taking further action as necessary once all the facts are in.

Thank you, Anyhony. I think the majority of those on AZ are reasonable people and agree it was right to put this thread back.

+1 respect

[Thomas@TAI-VW]

Oh the SWEET SWEET KARMA!!!
What comes around goes around.
"Karma,it's everywhere you're gonna be"

[2.0T_A3]

I am voting for APR to stop lying and just go ahead and close down the business and sell off the equipment when they still have a chance!

[SpfldS4]

So what recourse do we as consumers have? We have shelled out close to $3k on a product that does not have the tech advertised and have experienced issues with build quality, rattles, leaks, failed baffles etc. Not to mention service fees to try an repair all of these issues. I'm sure this group consists of some legal professionals.

I think it's time to move forward onto the next phase as the aggregated evidence clearly shows that numerous consumers did not get the advertised product or have experienced common issues and does not meet the expectations of the consumer. Whether the liability falls with the manufacturer or re-seller that is between APR, Corsa and a court to decide product liability. This is complicated as we have possible experienced design defects, manufacturing defects and/or marketing defects.

I don't have enough knowledge in this area and am asking our community and network here to chime in with the appropriate next actions.

[Spike00513]

So what recourse do we as consumers have? We have shelled out close to $3k

I bet $10 it's none. Just like with Stasis.

[drob23]

I bet $10 it's none. Just like with Stasis.

Not really the same thing...since Stasis went straight out of business.

[mr shickadance]

So what recourse do we as consumers have? We have shelled out close to $3k on a product that does not have the tech advertised and have experienced issues with build quality, rattles, leaks, failed baffles etc. Not to mention service fees to try an repair all of these issues. I'm sure this group consists of some legal professionals.

I think it's time to move forward onto the next phase as the aggregated evidence clearly shows that numerous consumers did not get the advertised product or have experienced common issues and does not meet the expectations of the consumer. Whether the liability falls with the manufacturer or re-seller that is between APR, Corsa and a court to decide product liability. This is complicated as we have possible experienced design defects, manufacturing defects and/or marketing defects.

I don't have enough knowledge in this area and am asking our community and network here to chime in with the appropriate next actions.

the short answer is : none

I mean even if you did secure down a lawyer or a group of lawyers (which is a stretch) AND got a judgement against APR (which is more of a stretch) you still need to collect the money. Just because you have a judge saying you are owed, collecting is still going to be hard, especially with a company that is rumored to be circling the drain.

The best course of action would be to email various high traffic auto blogs and hope one of them bites. The more people that know about the true colors of APR the better. I am sure anyone who spends 3 minutes reading through the information would make up their mind and seek a different product from a different vendor, That would be the best course of action hands down as you simply can't function when you have no customers anymore.

the sting of a bankruptcy would hurt a lot more for them than anything else.

[Uberformance]

Ok, I guess I am going to play the role of 'that guy' here, but someone has to if only to focus the discussion in order to keep moving towards some kind of resolution.

Again to be clear - I think there is a problem here and that the matter could have been dealt with far better. Also, I am not personally invested as I do not have any of the products that are at issue.


There seems to be 3 distinct issues here:

1) Does the exhaust sold by APR contain RCS technology - that being, by Corsa's claims, "acoustic tuning" designed to eliminate drone. (In my view, a further issue here is what does it mean for the product to contain RCS technology. We are all certainly aware of and focusing on the "vaned" style featured in diagrams, but remember, the claim is the the exhaust is "acoustically tuned" and does not specify any particular method.)

2) Does the exhaust sold by APR meet the advertised claims - Reduce drone, feature "straight-though" (i.e., will pass the golfball test) design, and contains RCS technology.

3) General issues of build quality, included the grade of materials used.

Clearly, there are problems with #3.

The real hurdle seems to be with #1 in that it is certainly possible, and entirely likely that Corsa/APR would take the position that "acoustic tuning" encompasses a vast array of styles and methods with the defining feature being that drone is reduced or eliminated by the cancelling out of certain sound frequencies. It will be their position that if any design element in the exhaust (whatsoever) has resulted in the elimination of drone in this way the exhaust has been "acoustically tuned" and therefore contains RSC technology.

If #1 is made out, #2 follows pretty easily.

Now - Everyones job is to tell my why I am wrong and thats how you make your case.

[CloseEncounters]

When this thread was moved last night, it contained no photos or really any relevant to discussion of anything B8 S4 related. Since then, that has changed, and I've decided to move it back.

I've also been in discussion with both Sean and Arin at APR, trying to personally get to the bottom of all this.

Will be taking further action as necessary once all the facts are in.

Anthony I applaud you for reconsidering and moving the thread back to the main page. I am also pleased to hear that you have been talking to the folks at APR. This may be a wake-up call for them and also may hopefully help them into becoming not just a better company but a great company...I have always been a optimist before I have reason to be a pessimist. We enthusiasts NEED companies like APR out there and though it appears that they may have lost their way the past few years this may the best opportunity they have to get back on track. I will keep monitoring this thread.

[Jerry1847]

Ok, I guess I am going to play the role of 'that guy' here, but someone has to if only to focus the discussion in order to keep moving towards some kind of resolution.

Again to be clear - I think there is a problem here and that the matter could have been dealt with far better. Also, I am not personally invested as I do not have any of the products that are at issue.


There seems to be 3 distinct issues here:

1) Does the exhaust sold by APR contain RCS technology - that being, by Corsa's claims, "acoustic tuning" designed to eliminate drone. (In my view, a further issue here is what does it mean for the product to contain RCS technology. We are all certainly aware of and focusing on the "vaned" style featured in diagrams, but remember, the claim is the the exhaust is "acoustically tuned" and does not specify any particular method.)

2) Does the exhaust sold by APR meet the advertised claims - Reduce drone, feature "straight-though" (i.e., will pass the golfball test) design, and contains RCS technology.

3) General issues of build quality, included the grade of materials used.

Clearly, there are problems with #3.

The real hurdle seems to be with #1 in that it is certainly possible, and entirely likely that Corsa/APR would take the position that "acoustic tuning" encompasses a vast array of styles and methods with the defining feature being that drone is reduced or eliminated by the cancelling out of certain sound frequencies. It will be their position that if any design element in the exhaust (whatsoever) has resulted in the elimination of drone in this way the exhaust has been "acoustically tuned" and therefore contains RSC technology.

If #1 is made out, #2 follows pretty easily.

Now - Everyones job is to tell my why I am wrong and thats how you make your case.

I posted some of Corsa'a marketing a day or two ago. Corsa is explicit in defining RSC as NOT containing fillers OR baffles. Corsa is extremely clear on how RSC works and the design used to achieve the results, and its not what APR has sold.

Also, the APR claims are wayyyyy more than just "acoustic tuning". APR claims "innovative technologies developed in conjunction with NASA." on the website. Total BS here. The issue is that APR advertised RSC, which is defined by Corsa, and not what was sold. Also, RSC was advertised in 4 of the B8 components, not just one single part, so all 4 should include the RSC tech, and none of them do.

[Jerry1847]

the short answer is : none

I mean even if you did secure down a lawyer or a group of lawyers (which is a stretch) AND got a judgement against APR (which is more of a stretch) you still need to collect the money. Just because you have a judge saying you are owed, collecting is still going to be hard, especially with a company that is rumored to be circling the drain.

The best course of action would be to email various high traffic auto blogs and hope one of them bites. The more people that know about the true colors of APR the better. I am sure anyone who spends 3 minutes reading through the information would make up their mind and seek a different product from a different vendor, That would be the best course of action hands down as you simply can't function when you have no customers anymore.

the sting of a bankruptcy would hurt a lot more for them than anything else.

Most class action type attorneys take these cases with no retainer but keep a big chunk of the settlement. Start by signing below so people that do want to move forward, if needed depending on APR's actions, can do so.

https://www.change.org/p/apr-refund-...ntain-rsc-tech

[Uberformance]

I posted some of Corsa'a marketing a day or two ago. Corsa is explicit in defining RSC as NOT containing fillers OR baffles. Corsa is extremely clear on how RSC works and the design used to achieve the results, and its not what APR has sold.

Also, the APR claims are wayyyyy more than just "acoustic tuning". APR claims "innovative technologies developed in conjunction with NASA." on the website. Total BS here. The issue is that APR advertised RSC, which is defined by Corsa, and not what was sold. Also, RSC was advertised in 4 of the B8 components, not just one single part, so all 4 should include the RSC tech, and none of them do.

Great response, it highlights the important point of a difference in the claims made by the manufacture itself, Corsa, and by APR.

[mr shickadance]

Most class action type attorneys take these cases with no retainer but keep a big chunk of the settlement. Start by signing below so people that do want to move forward, if needed depending on APR's actions, can do so.

https://www.change.org/p/apr-refund-...ntain-rsc-tech

i am aware of how a class action lawsuit works, i also am aware that a lawyer is going to take the case if there is a good chance of winning AND collecting. Both of which are not exactly 'highly likely'

The only thing I have ever bought from APR was a snub mount for my b7, this exhaust thing does not affect me personally less for the fact that they will never be considered for anything in the future.

i'm just being a realist that it's going to take a lawyer who is an auto enthusiast and happens to be a VAG fan to take this up as it's not exactly an open-shut case nor is there a chance of a reasonable collection if damages are awarded. most lawyers are going to look at this and move on.

[Jerry1847]

i am aware of how a class action lawsuit works, i also am aware that a lawyer is going to take the case if there is a good chance of winning AND collecting. Both of which are not exactly 'highly likely'

The only thing I have ever bought from APR was a snub mount for my b7, this exhaust thing does not affect me personally less for the fact that they will never be considered for anything in the future.

i'm just being a realist that it's going to take a lawyer who is an auto enthusiast and happens to be a VAG fan to take this up as it's not exactly an open-shut case nor is there a chance of a reasonable collection if damages are awarded. most lawyers are going to look at this and move on.

i hear you. my only disagreement is how likely the "open and shut" the argument is. The evidence collected by the forum is pretty solid. Collecting is another question altogether and like you said much more challenging.

i would be willing to bet that considering APR just was purchased by an investment firm, they will take action to preserve their investment. Depending on what they have invested.

Thats also an easy out for APR if the chose to use it.

"APR has recently undergone a change in management and we apologize for the questionable marketing and material used in products sold prior to our involvement. We will be working with owners of the impacted systems and do everything possible to correct the issue."
DONE!

[RecklessactN]

I am definitely reconsidering future purchases with APR (more specifically their CPS). No excuses for paying top dollar and not getting what you paid for.

[Sukks2bu]

This thread is exactly why I have no intentions of modifying this car. I can't see how a company in the business of making a profit, can offer after market " performance" parts that are so much better than stock for a $60k car, unless it comes with a heavy price tag. So the game is, price the parts so they seem of good quality, but not too high as No one will buy them.

Armytrix is a perfect example. $4000 exaust,,,,,,, you get what you pay for.

Are audi parts that bad?

[Race Shooter]

"APR has recently undergone a change in management and we apologize for the questionable marketing and material used in products sold prior to our involvement. We will be working with owners of the impacted systems and do everything possible to correct the issue."
DONE!

Boom! Done! That is all they had to do from the start and I bet that most everyone here would have accepted just that without all the drama. Hoping they get it worked out. I have nothing against them and no dog in the race, just hope they do the right thing. This industry needs good tuners on our side. We get enough hassle from Audi about tuning our cars, we dont need drama with the actual tuners as well.

[mr shickadance]

This thread is exactly why I have no intentions of modifying this car. I can't see how a company in the business of making a profit, can offer after market " performance" parts that are so much better than stock for a $60k car, unless it comes with a heavy price tag. So the game is, price the parts so they seem of good quality, but not too high as No one will buy them.

Armytrix is a perfect example. $4000 exaust,,,,,,, you get what you pay for.

Are audi parts that bad?

borla is a decent exhaust that does not break the bank. You don't have to spend a ton of cash to get something decent. Hell a custom exhaust is ALWAYS cheaper and if the shop has a decent welder you are right as rain.


I think your assumptions are off. this just happens to be a shitty product, there are lots of a really good products out there for a decent price.

[AWDLover]

I think it's time to move forward onto the next phase as the aggregated evidence clearly shows that numerous consumers did not get the advertised product or have experienced common issues and does not meet the expectations of the consumer. Whether the liability falls with the manufacturer or re-seller that is between APR, Corsa and a court to decide product liability. This is complicated as we have possible experienced design defects, manufacturing defects and/or marketing defects.

I don't have enough knowledge in this area and am asking our community and network here to chime in with the appropriate next actions.

While the evidence seems compelling so far (if valid) and the apr reps should have held back on their engagement of posters in this thread, this whole thing blew up what...a week ago? At least give APR ample time to research and determine 1. If the issues are actually there, 2. what the root cause is, and 3. determine a plan of action. That takes time in the real world. I think it will still be very apparent after that if APR knowingly marketed their products as having technology they in fact didn't.

Eventually there will probably be a lawsuit...either against APR for their shifty business practice...or some type of deformation suit against a potential disgruntled former employee

[saxon]

The issues I see with you coming up with an explanation are:

1) APR knew about this for years and have indicated that Corsa designs these exhausts in conjunction with APR
2) APR requested a material change from 304L to 400 stainless
3) APR took those photos and provided them to me
4) Corsa has dropped APR and the exhaust inventory left in your possession is "APR's problem"
5) Numerous contradictory statements by both Arin & Sean@APR
6) How can you explain customers waiting for months for RMA replacements / being rejected when APR has inventory of the exhaust?
7) APR's immediate plan being to clear out these Corsa exhausts in preparation for the outsourced exhausts provided by a certain employee which I introduced to APR.
8) Distributors are unhappy due to the deception surrounding the exhausts in addition to the new distribution policies which require higher minimum order quantities (offloading these exhausts onto distributors)

Keep in mind that I have numerous conversations in my possession with APR employees ridiculing the Corsa product which I will not hesitate to release in the event that your official "response" is contrary to the truth.

How are those superchargers coming along?

Dave

I have 2 questions for you
1) what did apr do to you to pass you off so much
2) what's your true goal of all these posts

[crew219]

I have 2 questions for you
1) what did apr do to you to pass you off so much
2) what's your true goal of all these posts

I've been pretty upfront about this on the other forum (I'll respect Anthony's rule about not linking outside Audizine).

1) It's a multitude of things, obviously totaling my vehicle after dragging it along for almost a year didn't help, but at the end of the day it came down to how they handle and treat issues that arise within and outside of their organization.

2) The end goal is to expose the truth. When I was provided these pictures, I was under the impression that I was helping APR achieve a better product. Sacrifices were made in order to improve margins and I brought forth a solution which would result in a better product, higher margins for both APR and dealers while reducing costs for the end consumer. That is no longer the case and these products continued to be sold and the program never really launched in the 2 years since I was provided these pictures.

More info will come.

Dave

[drob23]

I have 2 questions for you
1) what did apr do to you to pass you off so much
2) what's your true goal of all these posts

For (1), He posted the whole back story on AR in the war room.

TL:DR is APR fucked him over after he sent them his A3 to get power mods done. Then things got personal with Arin.