Looks like a fused my CM FX400 240mm...

[MOtown A4]

as the title states, im pretty sure i fused my 240mm fx400 clutch. i've had it for about 2k now and after a couple successful launches i decided that i would do one last night. feathered the throttle up to about 4.5-5k rmp had the clutch just before the engagement point, dumped it on an upswing in the rpm's and launched. after i was finished with first it didnt want to shift out of gear. i got it out of gear and got over to the side of the road, but could never get it back into a gear without the motor being shut off. i tried the bump the starter tricl and it wouldnt break loose, all it did was move my car with both the ebrake and brakes on, and in fifth gear. now its waiting at a 7-eleven for a tow truck to take it to m buddies shop. anyone else have this issue or experience with warranty returns to CM? the clutch hasnt been in the car for more that a month and a half. any help would be very much appreciated.

[M-Hood]

I think only 2 other A4 owners have had this problem, both launching the car after having the clutch for a very short time. Odd thing is I haven't seen any S4's have this happen when launching with the exact same clutch.


Best thing to do is contact CM or the person you bought it from. CM will look at the clutch and replace the disk if the disk was defective. If it was user error or the disk wasn't completely broken in then they will not cover it.
You will want to inspect the clutch disk and the flywheel/PP surface. If there is a ring of material on the flywheel/ring you will want to clean them to remove that material.

[MOtown A4]

I think only 2 other A4 owners have had this problem, both launching the car after having the clutch for a very short time. Odd thing is I haven't seen any S4's have this happen when launching with the exact same clutch.


Best thing to do is contact CM or the person you bought it from. CM will look at the clutch and replace the disk if the disk was defective. If it was user error or the disk wasn't completely broken in then they will not cover it.
You will want to inspect the clutch disk and the flywheel/PP surface. If there is a ring of material on the flywheel/ring you will want to clean them to remove that material.

well from what CM's warranty information says i have to contact my seller anyway to provide me with my proof of purchase. i don't have the reciept anymore. i dont suppose i will have any issue, its already at my shop. and it will more than likely get torn apart tomorrow night. im just no tlooking forward to all the unnecessary towing, labor and shipping charges because this clutch fused on me.

[black99.5a4]

Id say with what you claimed above, they might not warranty it. A clutch doesnt have a certain amount of miles it breaks in. You can break it in in 500 miles or 5000 miles. Lets just pray its not wore funny or you're in it a new disk.

just saying.. GL

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I think only 2 other A4 owners have had this problem, both launching the car after having the clutch for a very short time. Odd thing is I haven't seen any S4's have this happen when launching with the exact same clutch.

Like I suggested in the other CM thread, it probably has to do with the RPM's needed to launch a 1.8L car that weighs 3500 lbs and has AWD traction that needs to be overcome for a launch. At least the 2.7L engine has enough torque down low so as not to necessitate those kind of revs. I'm sure there is a way to do it so as to not overheat the clutch on a 1.8t launch. However I'd say it's a pretty small window.

[J Ozzie]

i never launch my car that high.. 3500 max

[M-Hood]

Like I suggested in the other CM thread, it probably has to do with the RPM's needed to launch a 1.8L car that weighs 3500 lbs and has AWD traction that needs to be overcome for a launch. At least the 2.7L engine has enough torque down low so as not to necessitate those kind of revs. I'm sure there is a way to do it so as to not overheat the clutch on a 1.8t launch. However I'd say it's a pretty small window.

My guess is you have never launched a S4, be it with stock K03's, K04's or twin GT's.
Even with stock K03's you still launch that car well above where it makes its peak tq, during a drag race the 2.7t is never even anywhere near its peak tq in the power band.

I have drag raced a chipped K03 S4 and a Twin GT S4. Launching the chipped K03 car was basically like launching a A4 1.8t with a K03/K04 which gets launched around 4k-4500, the twin I had to launch just like I launch my GT35r A4.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

OK, so what RPM do you launch your GT35 at? I can't see it as being the same as a K03 equipped car?

[Scotty@Advanced]

There is a specific procedure to break it free. Get it in gear and start the engine and then use throttle and braking while depressing the clutch pedal, eventually things will break free unless you've really melted it together.

Clutch companies generally don't warranty a fused disc.

[MOtown A4]

not that my setup would have anything to do with it but im running a uni tuned 2871r elim. the clutch has ~3500 miles all of which are city miles. on it with absolutely no slipping and just until recently has never been put through any abuse, i dont think the question of proper break in is terribly relevant here. i just spoke with my CM dealer on phone. he informed me (this i already knew) that with what these clutches are made of and how they're made it makes it difficult (not impossible) to believe that it fused, and that there could be a few other problems that would give me the same symptoms, but i should have no issues with CM customer service. im keeping my mind open to all ideas, i'll find out this week.
black99.5a4; i appreciate any luck i can get right now. im fairly confident, given all the facts, if the issue is the clutch, this should be a legitimate warranty claim.
scotty; in gear and the clutch pedal to the floor the car will not start, the whole car lunges forward like its stuck in gear. what i didnt try was to put it in reverse to see if it wasnt just stuck in gear or if the clutch was actually fused. would that not be a legitimate way of discerning between a issue with the linkage and an issue with the clutch fusing?

[M-Hood]

OK, so what RPM do you launch your GT35 at? I can't see it as being the same as a K03 equipped car?

I really think you might want to go back and actually read what I posted word for word instead of just skimming over it in a split second. No where in there did I compare launching a my car with a GT35r to launching an S4 with a K03.

My guess is you have never launched a S4, be it with stock K03's, K04's or twin GT's.
Even with stock K03's you still launch that car well above where it makes its peak tq, during a drag race the 2.7t is never even anywhere near its peak tq in the power band.

I have drag raced a chipped K03 S4 and a Twin GT S4. Launching the chipped K03 car was basically like launching a A4 1.8t with a K03/K04 which gets launched around 4k-4500, the twin I had to launch just like I launch my GT35r A4.

I launch my GT35 setup around 5500-6000 rpms, pretty much the same way I launch the B6's with a GT28rs/GT2871r.


Now check out this video that was just posted today by another shop that took their stage 3 S4 to E-town and ran low 12's and a 11.8. No way that car was being launched at low rpms like you suggest. That car even has a CM FX400 6 puck on it which is the same clutch that the OP is running.

[M-Hood]

not that my setup would have anything to do with it but im running a uni tuned 2871r elim. the clutch has ~3500 miles all of which are city miles. on it with absolutely no slipping and just until recently has never been put through any abuse, i dont think the question of proper break in is terribly relevant here. i just spoke with my CM dealer on phone. he informed me (this i already knew) that with what these clutches are made of and how they're made it makes it difficult (not impossible) to believe that it fused, and that there could be a few other problems that would give me the same symptoms, but i should have no issues with CM customer service. im keeping my mind open to all ideas, i'll find out this week.
black99.5a4; i appreciate any luck i can get right now. im fairly confident, given all the facts, if the issue is the clutch, this should be a legitimate warranty claim.
scotty; in gear and the clutch pedal to the floor the car will not start, the whole car lunges forward like its stuck in gear. what i didnt try was to put it in reverse to see if it wasnt just stuck in gear or if the clutch was actually fused. would that not be a legitimate way of discerning between a issue with the linkage and an issue with the clutch fusing?

as the title states, im pretty sure i fused my 240mm fx400 clutch. i've had it for about 2k now and after a couple successful launches i decided that i would do one last night. feathered the throttle up to about 4.5-5k rmp had the clutch just before the engagement point, dumped it on an upswing in the rpm's and launched. after i was finished with first it didnt want to shift out of gear. i got it out of gear and got over to the side of the road, but could never get it back into a gear without the motor being shut off. i tried the bump the starter tricl and it wouldnt break loose, all it did was move my car with both the ebrake and brakes on, and in fifth gear. now its waiting at a 7-eleven for a tow truck to take it to m buddies shop. anyone else have this issue or experience with warranty returns to CM? the clutch hasnt been in the car for more that a month and a half. any help would be very much appreciated.

Wait a minute, so it is 3500 miles or 2000 miles because now your story isn't even straight?


BTW a failed pilot bearing can also cause the same issues since the input shaft ends up spinning all of the time with the crank.

[flynnr]

regardless, a clutch made of that material shouldn't really need any break in time... maybe a couple hundred miles, max.

[MOtown A4]

Wait a minute, so it is 3500 miles or 2000 miles because now your story isn't even straight?


BTW a failed pilot bearing can also cause the same issues since the input shaft ends up spinning all of the time with the crank.

my band, got my thoughts all mixed up, i was thinking about j ozzies post with his comment about 3500 rpm. the clutch has exactly 2463 miles on in. had it pu tin exactly at 84k miles and now i have 86463 miles on the car.

[MOtown A4]

its at the shop now, we're going to get it apart this week hopefully and maybe i can take some pictures of any carnage. i'll make an update once everything has been handled and the car is on the road again.

[J Ozzie]

regardless, a clutch made of that material shouldn't really need any break in time... maybe a couple hundred miles, max.

true! how the hell did he fuse the CM FX400 in the first place... one of them pre mature guys who mash the gas before the clutch is completely out... that's the only way your gonna fuse it. Even then its a Kevlar clutch.....

[M-Hood]

regardless, a clutch made of that material shouldn't really need any break in time... maybe a couple hundred miles, max.

It is not the type of material but how the material is cut. The FX400 6 puck needs a good break in period because the material is tapered, so when you put it in only a % of the material is touching the flywheel/pp surface. As you break it in that % gets higher till all 100% of each side is touching the surface.

If you launch the car before that 100% the clutch will not hold as much power and it will slip causing a section to over heat and stick to the surface. This is why when people remove a fused clutch disk there is a single ring and nearly most of the rest of the material hasn't even been touched yet.

This is one of the reasons I never put my spare custom WOA dual diaphram 228mm clutch back in after having CM make me a 6 puck disk for it, there is no way for me to break it in correct before running it down the track.

BTW the break in is not based on how many miles, but how much the clutch is being used. If your driving on the fwy at a set speed the clutch is getting no use at all. If you want a clutch that needs very little break in period buy a race clutch. lol

true! how the hell did he fuse the CM FX400 in the first place... one of them pre mature guys who mash the gas before the clutch is completely out... that's the only way your gonna fuse it. Even then its a Kevlar clutch.....

FX400 is Ceramic, the FX200 and FX300 are Kevlar.



Picture of one of the only 240mm FX400 6 pucks that I know of that fused, happened not all that long after it was installed.







Can happen if the owner tries to launch the car too soon.

[Seerlah]

So which FX 400 setup is it that really needs no break in, though is recommended? The one that does not need break in for riding it hard, but recommended at least 500 miles before first launch?

[Papa_Dios]

I have always practiced/heard 500 miles of regular stop and go driving with clutches. I doubt these are any different.

[M-Hood]

So which FX 400 setup is it that really needs no break in, though is recommended? The one that does not need break in for riding it hard, but recommended at least 500 miles before first launch?

They are all the same. 500 miles isn't going to cut it unless you are driving in stop/go traffic for a good amount of that 500 miles. A good way to break in the clutch is to drive the car hard while it is in gear, at that point the clutch is actually being used. If the car is driven easier then it would normally then it could take way longer then 500 miles to get the clutch fully broken in.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

What I found worked well is to get on the highway or freeway in the city where you can go 80+ Km/hr and cruise. As you're cruising just keep systematically alternating between 3-4-5 5-4-3. It lets the clutch build up some heat and scrub some clutch surface off. But it's not going to result in enough heat to either glaze/anneal or fuse the clutch to the flywheel.

[Watson]

^^^^Does that actually work for breaking a clutch in?

[M-Hood]

^^^^Does that actually work for breaking a clutch in?

Should work, another way to do it is to do very short WOT runs in 5th gear, low rpm while on the fwy. This allows the clutch to heat cycle while it is fully engaged. This works really well for the Kevlar setups.

[MOtown A4]

verdict is: fused.... pictures tomorrow when i have time along with what CM and i discuss on the phone. any words of wisdom besides good luck in dealing with CM?

[J Ozzie]

damn i wanna see picsss

[MOtown A4]

its already broken apart, i have one that was sent to me while the friction disk was stuck to the flywheel. all shitty phone pics, but you'll get the idea. going to pick up the parts and ship them, and picking up my E30 3 series loaner...not stoked haha! pics later tonight possibly.

[J Ozzie]

damn, i can say you are now the first person i have heard of fusing this bitch!

[MOtown A4]

damn, i can say you are now the first person i have heard of fusing this bitch!

it doesnt necessarily mean its the line of clutch or the manufacturer, it could just be a fluke, a flaw, a mistake in manufacturing. i still think these clutches are badass, and i will be getting another. the only thing im interested in is how CM handles this. i believe i have done nothing abusive or wrong or outside of what this clutch can handle as far as this situation goes. all the tapering of the friction material is gone meaning the friction disk was in full contact with the flywheel and pressure plate, according to what m hood explained earlier.

i made this post not for the purpose of figuring out what to do, but to creat as much of a base of information about this company and the products they sell. this is important information for a buyer to consider when contemplating a purchase of this clutch. this situation i hope will be a highlight in the base of information on these, that they arent "un-fusable", and ontop of that how they handle their customers that have spent a good deal of money on their product. i hope im not coming off as a dick, or trying to persecute Cm of making a bad clutch, im just trying to bring my personal situation to the public eye, whether this helps or hinders CM i dont know, but atleast this can provide a little insight for people looking to purchase this clutch. anyone agree?

[walky_talky20]

^Agree. Not unfusable, not a dick, public eye, insight, etc. Gotcha.

I'm interested to see how this plays out.

[J Ozzie]

They should handle it with surperb( sorry I'm drunk and that's word u get) customer service skills!

[M-Hood]

Only way the clutch can fuse is by it getting too hot and the only way it gets too hot is from slipping and then cooling quickly while the clutch is fully engaged. This is why it is never a good idea to slip the clutch during a launch or doing too many back to back. CM sells a good amount of the FX400 that is used on the 240mm kit and really rarely have any fusing issues.

[Seerlah]

I read the B6 guys have been having issues with CM kits, but those cars are rather heavy compared to ours. I am thinking that's the major factor. And I had no idea how heavy our cars really are till I jacked up my freind's 3.5 RL to do his brakes. My car is smaller, and much heavier.

[M-Hood]

I read the B6 guys have been having issues with CM kits, but those cars are rather heavy compared to ours. I am thinking that's the major factor. And I had no idea how heavy our cars really are till I jacked up my freind's 3.5 RL to do his brakes. My car is smaller, and much heavier.

Only a few have had problems and they were all launching their cars. But the 240mm clutch they use is the same one that the B5 S4's run which is just as heavier or even heavier then the B6 A4 1.8t.

[SpoolinPelican]

Sorry OP, not meaning to thread jack, but......

When Southbend clutches fuse its the clutch at fault......

When Clutchmasters clutches fuse it's not broken in properly......

Oh, I get it now

[J Ozzie]

Sorry OP, not meaning to thread jack, but......

When Southbend clutches fuse its the clutch at fault......

When Clutchmasters clutches fuse it's not broken in properly......

Oh, I get it now

SB.............UGHHH

[M-Hood]

Sorry OP, not meaning to thread jack, but......

When Southbend clutches fuse its the clutch at fault......

When Clutchmasters clutches fuse it's not broken in properly......

Oh, I get it now

The SB FE material were fuse long after the clutch kits were installed so they were already way out of the break in period, it happend when the Feramic(high % of metal) is allowed to slip for a few seconds. When people started to have the fusing issues with the SB kits I called them and they told me that it will happen with the full face Feramic disks.

Only a few of the CM FX400's have fused and all of them have been while launching the car with very few miles on the clutch.

[MOtown A4]

here's some photo's i snapped before i shipped it to cali. just a little heads up, in CM's warranty they clearly state that they do not cover and non material charges, including: shipping, labor and towing fee's. tear down and reassembly upon the arrival of either a repaired or new clutch will cost me about 450 total, cost me 70 to tow it and its costed me 220 to ship it to CM ontop of them holding me responsible to pay for the shipping back to me. in the end this is going to end up costing me ~$960. the labor and the towing i dont mind so much, but if this is infact a warranty case, you can be sure we will be discussing some sort of compromise on this shipping. i believe someone else has had CM compensate them for shipping or some other non material cost before in another thread i've read...anyway enjoy the carnage...

[MOtown A4]

just heard from Jose at CM. apparently the friction disk pads were impregnated with oil (indicating i have a bad oil leak problem somewhere), so it looks like i have an oil leak to find. in any case it was a non warranty issue so my charges are as follows: 125 to resurface the flywheel and pressure plate, and replace the friction pucks on the friction disk. another 138.95 to 2 day air ship it back to me bringing my subtotal to 263.95. so my total cost so far without my mechanics labor is $481.13. still looking at 850-900 total for this. great service from CM, no complaints here.

[J Ozzie]

you should have just bought a new one for another 100 bucks.

Damnnnn you got that thing sooooo hot! Look at your FW.

[Papa_Dios]

This is exactly why I changed out my input shaft seal and rear main when I did my 5 speed swap. Good to know that they took care of you and got back to you promptly. I loved my CM kit and in the future wouldn't hesitate to order from them again.