Another 5 Speed swap

[Papa_Dios]

After having the car for a few months tranny took a dump on me which meant 1)Sell the car (for basically nothing) 2)Deal with the hassle of a part-out 3)Drop in another TIP tranny (uhhhh no) 4)Do some research and swap it out for a 5 speed. I already have everything ordered and I will update with pics as things arrive. I am using biketsais' guide for the most part mixed with a little commmon sense. His guide is A+ and I will attempt to supplement it a bit.

With biketsai's help I was able to find out that my rear diff (4.11 gearing) needed to be swapped out in favor of the 3.89 (from a 5 speed). You should do this at the same time as the tranny since everything is already out of the way (exhaust/driveshaft etc). You will also need a driveshaft from a 5 speed. While I don't know 100% if it is necessary to swap the diff it's better to be safe than sorry.

Everything I have is coming from a 99.5 with low miles. I'll post a list of everything I purchased and from where later on. I will also post up the steps I took (starting with dropping the diff and driveshaft AKA d/s). The dropping of the exhaust is pretty straight forward (so if you can't handle that aspect I would reconsider doing this swap)

For now here are a couple of pics of what has come in so far.

Brand new 5 speed axles (front) I dont think rears are necessary-correct me if I'm wrong.



Diff and d/s



More to come soon......

*Sorry mods move if necessary*

[Papa_Dios]

List of things I have for the swap (still waiting to be shipped in):

5 speed tranny (brackets/mounts/slave/clutch line)
CMC
S4 Pedal set (DBW)
Shifter box/trim/linkage
(Above purchased from audis4parts)
rear diff
driveshaft
(above purchased from Gtek in Naples FL)
Pilot Bearing from
(www.zorkos.com PN#A-6941)
5 speed front axles
(Advance lIfetime warranty)
Clutch Masters FX400 W/LWFW
delrin jhm shifter bushing
(ringer-racing)
Rear main seal

Have some other goodies too :)

[Papa_Dios]

Unplug your battery kind of important lol



Started off droppping the exhaust like I said pretty self-explanatory.

heres a pic (very heavy piece)



Next with a 12pt triple square tool I unbolted the front axles (I ripped the CV boot being dumb). Also removed the heat shield as seen in pic



With the exhaust out of the way things should look like this. Remove the heat shield shown in these pics to gain access to the driveshaft.





For this step I would recommend a friend (if you don't have any :( be prepared for a lot of back and forth). Use the ebrake to stop the DS from spinning on you when getting the bolts off
(be VERY careful not to strip these out!!)

[Papa_Dios]

After unbolting the D/S from both the tranny and diff I still wasnt able to pull it out so decided to just pull it when i got the diff off.

I then moved to the rear axles. Took them off like the front in order to get the diff out (careful here also)



At this time place a jack under the diff



There are a few mounts holding this bad boy in here are a few pics (I think I got all of them pictured)






This mount will leak when you loosen it so be ready for that



Making sure that the diff is still on the jack start taking out these three bolts (carrier)



Then lower it out (SLOWLY)



You should be here



Here it is. This is what happened because the driveshaft didn't (and still doesn't) want to accept it's divorce from the diff



Next you will want to take the downpipe off so that you can get to the tranny to engine bolts
(messy I know) to get here you will need to take out your airbox and move some things around but its pretty straight forward. Also I unplugged my O2 sensors you may want to take them off of the piping up to you.



(O2 plugs are on the drivers side on the firewall follow them from the sensors themselves)



The patient




Dropping the tranny this weekend

[biketsai]

Nice man, definitely get those JHM bushings to make the transmission arms a breeze when installing.

[biketsai]

Btw- Tip for getting that driveshaft off= get a hammer and hammer around the driveshaft to loosen it up, should pop right off.

[Papa_Dios]

Ha yea I tried that thing won't budge. Ill pull out the rubber mallet if need be later on. Thanks for the great writeup and answering my questions BTW !!!

[M-Hood]

Nice man, definitely get those JHM bushings to make the transmission arms a breeze when installing.

That is the #1 reason to get it. It making the shifter box stiffer is just the icing on the cake. lol

[Papa_Dios]

Yep I took that advice. Thanks for everythinig MIKE. Ringer-Racing FTW!!

[FNK]

Awesome step by step picture!

[walky_talky20]

Pics aren't working. EDIT: Pics are working great.

Also, I've found that swapping the rear diff is not absolutely necessary, IF you get a 5-speed from an earlier car (88-91 B3 quattro). Those 5-speed gearboxes use a 4.11 final drive, which will match the B5 Tiptronic rear diff. You can get them from a 80/90 quattro, or a Coupe Quattro. The latter has slightly shorter gears. I've acquired the tranny for my swap from a 1991 Audi Coupe Quattro, trans code ASZ. So far it the only difference is 1 bolt on the right side mount bracket which will require a slight modification. I think if I could procure an earlier pre-99 B5 V6 quattro mount bracket it wouldn't be an issue, though.

Using this method, you are rolling the dice on a pretty old tranny, though. But there are lots of these for pennies in my area, and they come with warranties.

[Papa_Dios]

FNK: Thanks

Walky: I actually looked into it when I saw your thread but there are hardly any B5 A4's in my area let alone anything older. Where I live is Honda/Nissan central, outside of that you're at the mercy of out of state yards. I havent recieved mine yet but that's due to weather conditions where its coming from. How's your swap coming along? What clutch are you going to use?

[Amorphic]

loving it. this is still something im dreaming to do with my car.

[builditup]

i just traded my 5spd for an auto so my gf could drive it.....dumb idea haha. and this makes me want to put one back in it so bad. how much do you think you have in all of it if you dont mind? looks good so far man!

[walky_talky20]

I got a free used clutch kit and pedal cluster to start me off. Other than that, I will have around $500 in the project. And there is the [slight] possibility of selling the Tiptronic parts as well.

Papa_Dios: Would you mind telling us how much this is running so far, ballpark?

[Papa_Dios]

I gave myself a cap of $2800 for the entire swap but I bought some things that arent related to the transmission (forge dv etc misc tools as well) right now I am at $2600. I could have done it for 2k but I bought a better clutch lower mileage tranny and diff and factoring in shipping (since my local yards suck). A normal person could do this swap for 2k EASY.

[builditup]

thats not to bad...is there any way a 6spd would bolt up to a 2000 v6 a4??

[M-Hood]

thats not to bad...is there any way a 6spd would bolt up to a 2000 v6 a4??

Yes.

[Papa_Dios]

Today I wanted to drop the tranny but woke up late and worked on the wifes car but I did make some progress.

On a side note the cat/dp where very stubborn in not wanting to come out (from the bottom or the top) in the end I wound up removing my two O2 sensors and bending this piece (surprised I didnt break it with how pissed I was)



At this point you should already have the trans jack secured under the trans. (see prior pics)

I decided that my goal at the very least today was to drop the subframe. You are going to need to remove the bolt to the lower control arm first



This bolt is a 18mm the nut on the other side of it is also an 18mm. Heres what I came up with since there is limited space. Especially on the pass. side.



Here is the 18mm nut I was referring to (kind of sneaky) I used a box wrench.





It helped me to use somthing to wedge in there to create some space.



If all is going well you should be here.

[Papa_Dios]

The following bolts will also need to be removed (3 bolts each for drivers and passanger side)







Time to take of the trans brackets. There is a bolt and nut that need to be taken out to get the brackets off.





After thats out you can get to the T-Bolts to get the brackets off. (3 on each side one extraaaa long one on the drivers side)







The pass side bracket is a little more of a pain (less space if you can believe that). I was able to remove the t-bolt from the top again up to you



This one removed from the bottom



Next you will need to tackle these two. IIRC these are for the trans cooler and WILL leak so be ready (not a lot but enough). It's a bolt and then pry them off with a flat head.

[Papa_Dios]

When those are out you can start taking out the trans to engine bolts (I will be getting to the starter soon lol) I only got out 5 today (out of the 11 I believe-correct me if I'm wrong). Tried as best I could on locations.

(FYI I had to use a smaller 16mm socket than the one shown here for space)




Get this one from the front-meaning you looking towards the back of the car, oil pan on your right (starter area). You will need an extension.




Feel around for this one this one is towards the top center.





This is on the drivers side now (I only removed one) This one is extraaaa long for some reason. *pointing to it*



This is the extra long one compared to the others




This is where I left off today overall I'm happy. I'm not in too much of a hurry since it's maybe a couple of weeks out until my tranny arrives (damn IA weather). Next week I'll probably finish dropping it and then move to the inside (removing the tip shift stuff and TCU).

I did get my JHM bushing in today (Thanks again Mike!! Ringer-racing.com)



BTW you have been marking all the bolts right???????



Stay tuned.......

[zrowcool]

let me knowif u get the clutch switch to work... like factory where you have to press the clutch to start.
Other than that great job with the progress... looks like you dont have much to go. you're gunna love driving the stick instead of the tip. i dont regret it whatsoever.

[the_pirate]

Wow good work so far! I'm glad you're local you can help me do my trans swap next :)

Us local B5ers need to get together more…I was working on my car by myself yesterday. You going to Eurotreffen?

[M-Hood]

Yeah the bolt on the driver side just above the axle will be longer then the others, long like the starter bolts.

It is longer because the spot that it goes thru on the bell housing is thicker vs the rest of the holes on the bell housing. You will notice this once you get the transmission down or look at the manual bell housing.

Picture taken from Chris's thread.

[Papa_Dios]

let me knowif u get the clutch switch to work... like factory where you have to press the clutch to start.
Other than that great job with the progress... looks like you dont have much to go. you're gunna love driving the stick instead of the tip. i dont regret it whatsoever.

I hate electronics/wiring so I doubt I will get that working lol. After the swap are you saying that you are are just able to start the car up without depressing the clutch?

[Papa_Dios]

Wow good work so far! I'm glad you're local you can help me do my trans swap next :)

Us local B5ers need to get together more…I was working on my car by myself yesterday. You going to Eurotreffen?

No problem I'd be more than happy to help you :). I've been wanting to meet you but the car being down as long as it has put a damper on things. I will be at Eurotreffen.

[Papa_Dios]

Yeah the bolt on the driver side just above the axle will be longer then the others, long like the starter bolts.

It is longer because the spot that it goes thru on the bell housing is thicker vs the rest of the holes on the bell housing. You will notice this once you get the transmission down or look at the manual bell housing.

Picture taken from Chris's thread.

Thanks for clearing that up Mike I pulled it out and was like "WTF all the bolts on the drivers side are longer" lol.

[zrowcool]

I hate electronics/wiring so I doubt I will get that working lol. After the swap are you saying that you are are just able to start the car up without depressing the clutch?

That is correct sir. You can start the car without pressing the clutch so u gotta make sure its not in gear. You will also lose your cruise control. I dont know is Biketsai ever got his reverse lights to work but i was able to get it to work during my swap by just pulling the wires out of the old trans switch ( i think it was called mulitfunction) and running them to switch on the standard trans.

I also have the cruise control vacuum switch but havent been able to figure that out either. I have a bentley but get lost with all the colors and trying to track down the harness under the dash.

[walky_talky20]

The Bentley diagrams are pretty ridiculous to read. I like the 3rd party diagrams. They are usually in color and are much more intuitive. If you need a better diagram for that cruise stuff, just PM me.

[Papa_Dios]

I never leave any if my manual cars in gear so that's not a big deal I also have bypassed all of the clutch switches in previous cars. I may miss cruise control but doubt it. I would like my reverse lights though you have a diy on that?

[biketsai]

I havent had any issues while not having a clutch switch. I always know not to put it in gear as I start it.

[Papa_Dios]

Courtesy of Ringer-racing.com

[the_pirate]

up up! Is this thing driving yet??

[Papa_Dios]

SOOOOON!!! My tranny got shipped out on Tuesday so hopefully this weekend or early next week it should be here. I'm going to be dropping the tranny this weekend so I will have an update.

On another note does anyone know if our transmissions are steel or aluminum (thinking about scrapping my old one).

[zrowcool]

the casing is aluminum but the gears are steel (hardened). Unless you separate the casing from the guts, most scrap yards are gunna give you a mixed metal price and just go by the weight. if you separate them the aluminum is worth more than the steel so you can get some more money from it.

[Papa_Dios]

Thanks for the info!!

[somebody5788]

For this step I would recommend a friend (if you don't have any :( be prepared for a lot of back and forth). Use the ebrake to stop the DS from spinning on you when getting the bolts off
(be VERY careful not to strip these out!!)

Poor friendless peoples =( hahaha

[Papa_Dios]

Yes thank goodness I had one to help me. haha

[Papa_Dios]

Details soon

[Papa_Dios]

This weekend wen t back to work on the tranny determined to get it out.

Remove this bolt from the starter (pointing to it)



When trying to get to the bottom tranny to engine bolts you will need more room for an open ended ratchet so if you still have the bracket for your belly pan remove it.



Use a breaker bar or something similar to create some space. Also suggest you unbolting some of your suspension for more room



These are the bottom bolts (tranny to engine bolts)







This one is a bit tricky (more in a little bit)



For the above bolt (on the drivers side) its a bolt with a nut so when you break the nut loose it will start to just spin with the bolt. I managed to wedge in a flat head to keep it from spinning and took it off.



From under the car