Antoine's 2L BT build

[Antoinebourdeau]

Well last week my car finally came back from the dead so I figured its time to start a build thread.
Background:
I started talking to Issam @ INA about a turbo kit a few months back. Ordered a HTA2868R, PSI mani, Tial v38 wastegate, 3" downpipe with HFC, 040 fuel pump, ID725 injectors, Maestro 7 etc, with plans to just put rods in and call it quits
Then I figured, if I’m spending this much time, money and effort into my build then a 2868r just wasn’t enough. Sold the turbo and a HTA3076r was ordered.
Plan was to assemble parts through the winter and build in the spring/summer, but my cars water pump died so all at once this winter it is.

I gave the green light to Issam for a 2L build with his choice of parts.

Updated Mod List:

ENGINE:
Lower Half : The Block & Oiling system

* 06A/06B 1.8T Block
* 83mm 9.25:1 Mahle Motorsport Pistons
* 92.8mm 2.0 TFSI OEM Crankshaft w/ 1.8T Oil Pump Gear
* DM Forged I-beam 144/20mm connecting rods w/ ARP 2000 bolts
* ARP Main studs
* ARP head bolts
* ARP Crank Bolt
* Calico Coated connecting rod & Main bearings
* Fluidamper SFI rated front crank damper and pulley
* South Bend stage 3 endurance Clutch kit
* South Bend Steel Flywheel
* 034 Motorsport block breather silicone hose modified for AMB fitment with AMB check valve incorporated.
* Built AEB head with stock cams
* Gates 06A performance timing belt w/ INA manual tensioner kit.

The rest

* PSI Concept T3 Turbo manifold
* FP HTA GT3076R
* TiAL MVS 38mm WG
* INA Downpipe w/ HFC
* INA Intake manifold
* 70mm BOSCH throttle body
* Bosch 040 Intank fuel pump
* ID725cc injectors
* 3.5" intake with AEM dry flow filter
* V8 Maf
* 3" exhaust Y split into 2.5"
* Tial QR
* DEI turbo blanket
* Stage 8 bolts
* TR11 intercooler with 034 2.5" intercooler piping

Plan is to break in the motor/clutch with the stock k03, ,then put on the remainder of the turbo stuff on then tune later.

Big props to Issam @ INA for dealing with my 1000+ annoyingly dumb questions, long hours put into the build so I could have my car back ASAP, looking out for my wallet and overall great service.

Ok enough blabber on to pics:
the car in question:

motor parts

INA downpipe


Built motor

[nofearhawk]

I want that downpipe/hfc combo, is that available direct from agtronic and who do I talk to?

[Antoinebourdeau]

I want that downpipe/hfc combo, is that available direct from agtronic and who do I talk to?

I did a mistake in the name... PM Issam @ INA for info in it :)

[A4 TSCHUSS]

That is definitely clearly made by Agtronic.

What type of intercooler setup do you plan to run? And if I was you I would install everything at once (the new turbo, etc). Why put the stock stuff on to "break in the engine?" You really don't need to do that much breaking it in and a massive GT45r turbo or a stock K03 isn't going to make one bit of difference so I would install the 30r and save work later.

[dirtybrd]

He wants to baseline the new motor so he know what power increase he's getting with the new hard/software.

[CHAOSAUDI]

That is definitely clearly made by Agtronic.

What type of intercooler setup do you plan to run? And if I was you I would install everything at once (the new turbo, etc). Why put the stock stuff on to "break in the engine?" You really don't need to do that much breaking it in and a massive GT45r turbo or a stock K03 isn't going to make one bit of difference so I would install the 30r and save work later.

Does it really matter who welds for INA? Such a thing as private label exits and it says he is running an ER FMIC .
Antoine are you going to see how much power the audi makes with the stroker motor and K03? I would be interested in seeing those pulls!

[A4 TSCHUSS]

He says he has an ER Sport (which is clearly way to small) and says later in his post.

The head, exhaust, Intercooler, intake mani, water/meth, and a few other odds and ends will be done later down the line once my wallet recovers.

Chris, guess I read over the wanting a baseline dyno part.

[Turbavanttro]

Good stuff OP. I've been working with Issam as well on a similar bottom end setup. Beautiful car. I agree with David, no need to break in on the K03 unless circumstances require you to do so. Limit your peak boost but definitely load the engine to get the rings seated.

[M-Hood]

If you are looking to break the motor in with the K03 and its tune that is perfectly fine, but it is a complete waste of time to put it on the dyno to see if you got any gains from going 2 liter seeing that your not going to get more power out of a K03 then you can on a 1.8 liter when running high boost, either of them are going to cause the K03 to be out of breath before redline.

1000cc injectors just for a HTA3076r? That is major over kill.

Not sure why people are saying not to break-in the new motor with the new turbo/tune setup when the fact is he is pretty much going with a self tune setup. Would be pretty stupid to break-in a motor on a tune that is not even right for the setup yet.

[EBG 18T]

Just install the new turbo while your at it. You won't even have a real baseline since you will a 2.0L w/ improper K03 software (designed for a 1.8L). You have some work ahead of you with Maestro. But you can just install the basefile, break the motor in and then work on writing a better file after.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

1000cc injectors just for a HTA3076r? That is major over kill.

Mike, you forget these cars don't have rising rate fuel pressure systems like your B5 does. 830cc injectors with the stock static 4 bar pressure was not good enough for me and I am running like 4.5 bar right now with an adjustable regulator being static and it is still not good enough to where my air/fuel ratio goes away from what the ecu is requesting with a bosch 044 fuel pump holding perfect pressure.

[Audi Skate Snow]

850cc injectors at 25-26lbs of boost I max at 55-60% IDC with my 3071. Car runs like low 11 to high 10 afr.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Your car is weak sauce that is why

[Audi Skate Snow]

Your car is weak sauce that is why

yea but it runs correctly with out a million issues. not really "weak sauce" though. :)

[Wizard-of-OD]

Hello Everyone,
First of all Antoine thank you for the thread.

I usually do this for every thread but since there is allready one up here is a basic list of the engine mods and more to come:

ENGINE:
Lower Half : The Block & Oiling system

• 06A/06B 1.8T Block - AMB
• 83mm 9.25:1 Custom Mahle Motorsport Pistons
• 92.8mm 2.0 TFSI OEM Crankshaft w/ 1.8T Oil Pump Gear
• DM Forged I-beam 144/20mm connecting rods w/ ARP 2000 bolts
• ARP Main studs
• ARP head bolts
• ARP Crank Bolt
• Calico Coated connecting rod & Main bearings
• Fluidamper SFI rated front crank damper and pulley
• STOCK B6 Oil Pan(for now)
• K70205-SS-TZ South Bend Clutch kit
• SBCF0502 South Bend Steel Flywheel
• 034 Motorsport block breather silicone hose modified for AMB fitment with AMB check valve incorporated.

Upper Half : The Head

• AMB “small port” Cylinder head with 5-valve per cylinder design
• Gates 06A performance timing belt w/ INA manual tensioner kit.

Turbo, Intake & Fueling System:

• PSI Concept T3 Turbo manifold
• FP HTA GT3076R w/ 0.82 A/R turbine housing
• TiAL MVS 38mm WG
• INA Oil & Coolant line kit
• INA Downpipe w/ HFC
• AMB Intake manifold
• INA 70mm BOSCH DBW throttle body kit
• Bosch 005 Intank set up for use in a B6
• (4) ID1000cc injectors
• ...other fueling modifications discussed later.

Now I do appreciate the feedback in this thread but choices were made to do certain set ups periodically. The difference between installing the turbo kit NOW and in a few weeks was an exhaust manifold gasket and a downpipe gasket. Nothing more....
We built the motor (which is allready broken in btw...) to run on the K03 for now for 2 reasons.
1. See how the motor performs with 2008cc vs 1781cc (personal reasons)
2. Get all our ducks in a row to do the turbo kit transformation.
As in make sure intercooler piping , inlet piping and tuning can all be done with MINIMAL downtime possible. Due to time constraints in the project I literally completed the car @ 3AM Wednesday morning and dropped it off for Anton shortly after as he needs the car for work and other duties. Injector choice has not been decided as yet but whether 1000cc or 630cc makes no difference with Eurodyne and the price of the injectors is roughly the same. Difference is with the ID1000cc's (we actually like them alot) he has room to grow IF he decides to go to a 3582R in the future.

This is not the end of this project.

[AudiA4_20T]

small port head? Blah

[Wizard-of-OD]

small port head? Blah

...myth
Nothing wrong with a small port head if you are not running a GT3582R(or similar 60lb/min turbocharger) or larger.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

GT35 wont fit on that manifold.

[eastcoastjettin]

Never doubt the guys over at INA!

for this project

[M-Hood]

Mike, you forget these cars don't have rising rate fuel pressure systems like your B5 does. 830cc injectors with the stock static 4 bar pressure was not good enough for me and I am running like 4.5 bar right now with an adjustable regulator being static and it is still not good enough to where my air/fuel ratio goes away from what the ecu is requesting with a bosch 044 fuel pump holding perfect pressure.

You act like I dont know that when the fact is I was part of the B6 2.0t GT3076 build for Jakes dad's B6 which put down 465whp with injectors smaller then 1000cc. lol

GT35 wont fit on that manifold.

Then how is he going to make a HTA3076 fit seeing that it actually uses the GT3582r .70 a/r compressor housing? LOL

[AudiA4_20T]

Mike I maxed out 830ccs at ~30psi

[PSi Concepts]

Looking good.

[Wizard-of-OD]

GT35 wont fit on that manifold.

I posted prematurely before so I called Jeff@PSI to find out what turbocharger you had that didnt clear.As I understand you had a precision turbocharger which is a completely different geometry set up than the regular Garrett GT line up turbochargers. With some massaging a T04S compressor can clear both the frame frail and turbo manifold but I do know there are many variations in turbine housings so maybe we can have some data to show what turbine housings dont clear and which do?

Whatever the case we dont use regular Garrett GT turbochargers , we use Forced Performance which can put any compressor/turbine housing combination we request together (so that means even putting a 35R in a T04E comp housing).Tomorrow I will grab some photos of all the sets up in the A4 jig and see if we can develop a solution for any and all your requests.

[Wizard-of-OD]

Looking good.

Thanks Jeff!

[CoreyRS]

I am curious about the 2L with a K03, looking forward to the build Anton and Issam

[ATW72]

Nice build. Looking forward to seeing final results.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

You act like I dont know that when the fact is I was part of the B6 2.0t GT3076 build for Jakes dad's B6 which put down 465whp with injectors smaller then 1000cc. lol



Then how is he going to make a HTA3076 fit seeing that it actually uses the GT3582r .70 a/r compressor housing? LOL

I dont care what number 034's dyno spit out on a car they built that was in the spotlight at the time. Fact of the matter is I did physical testing showing logs and video with intentions of only helping others in the future while the others were trying to sell a product. Remember that same car ran no exhaust (open dump) on a dyno jet and made like what 40whp less at around 6500rpm if I remember correctly. And Clint had the same problems as me validating it even further that 830s won't cut it. 870s like that car had were probably stretched to the limit when it went over a true 400whp. After all mine was only dynoed at 404 on the dyno I used and was leaning out.

As for your hta30r comment, different turbine housing on 30r positions the turbo different But to be completely honest I don't think an hta30r will fit either because the smaller .60 compressor housing has very little room to spare between itself and the frame rail, so with the bigger .70 housing it is most likely not going to fit.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

I posted prematurely before so I called Jeff@PSI to find out what turbocharger you had that didnt clear.As I understand you had a precision turbocharger which is a completely different geometry set up than the regular Garrett GT line up turbochargers. With some massaging a T04S compressor can clear both the frame frail and turbo manifold but I do know there are many variations in turbine housings so maybe we can have some data to show what turbine housings dont clear and which do?

Whatever the case we dont use regular Garrett GT turbochargers , we use Forced Performance which can put any compressor/turbine housing combination we request together (so that means even putting a 35R in a T04E comp housing).Tomorrow I will grab some photos of all the sets up in the A4 jig and see if we can develop a solution for any and all your requests.

I have a Precision 5857 .63 ar and it fits just fine but a .82 would probably hit underneath on the engine mount. I will now go back and say a Garrett Gt35r will not fit. The turbine housing is different than a 30r. Since you don't believe me again I will let you find out the hard way like that 70mm throttle body ordeal It was tested with pics showing it does not even come close to fitting.

[dougyfresh]

I have a Precision 5857 .63 ar and it fits just fine but a .82 would probably hit underneath on the engine mount. I will now go back and say a Garrett Gt35r will not fit. The turbine housing is different than a 30r. Since you don't believe me again I will let you find out the hard way like that 70mm throttle body ordeal It was tested with pics showing it does not even come close to fitting.

I test fitted a 35R on that manifold for Jeff@PSI. It doesn't fit. Contact him for info, Issam.

[M-Hood]

I dont care what number 034's dyno spit out on a car they built that was in the spotlight at the time. Fact of the matter is I did physical testing showing logs and video with intentions of only helping others in the future while the others were trying to sell a product. Remember that same car ran no exhaust (open dump) on a dyno jet and made like what 40whp less at around 6500rpm if I remember correctly. And Clint had the same problems as me validating it even further that 830s won't cut it. 870s like that car had were probably stretched to the limit when it went over a true 400whp. After all mine was only dynoed at 404 on the dyno I used and was leaning out.

As for your hta30r comment, different turbine housing on 30r positions the turbo different But to be completely honest I don't think an hta30r will fit either because the smaller .60 compressor housing has very little room to spare between itself and the frame rail, so with the bigger .70 housing it is most likely not going to fit.

The dyno runs showed lower because they were done in 4th gear not 3rd. This is why the car kept dumping fuel and running rich on the dyno, which is why Jake then drove the car back up to 034 before driving it 3000+ miles back to RI.

I am curious about the 2L with a K03, looking forward to the build Anton and Issam

Pretty pointless. The K03 on our cars just cant handle that much exhaust flow. On my 2032cc build the K04-15 I had on there pretty much spooled enough to hit 15psi while out of gear and ran out of breath by the time the car got moving. Think a chipped K03 is bad on a 1.8L, it is going to be even worse on a 2 liter. Funny part is the power band will shift all the way to the left and end up making the same peak hp it can make on the stock motor, you just end up with a much smaller power band.

[dougyfresh]

The dyno runs showed lower because they were done in 4th gear not 3rd. This is why the car kept dumping fuel and running rich on the dyno, which is why Jake then drove the car back up to 034 before driving it 3000+ miles back to RI.

please stop. we don't want to hear about that car anymore.

I'd rather hear about what Antoine is doing with his car.

[M-Hood]

Ok. I wish him luck trying to get that HTA30r on the car with the PSI manifold.

[Wizard-of-OD]

ISince you don't believe me again I will let you find out the hard way like that 70mm throttle body ordeal It was tested with pics showing it does not even come close to fitting.

David,
It's Monday and I do not have time to elaborate on every detail/post but lets be clear on a few things ,there was no "70mm throttle body ordeal" and we do not run a monkey show here. In order to BUILD a downpipe such as the one you see above , it had to be INSTALLED in a B5/B6 chassis jig for clearance WITH the turbocharger. If you feel like expanding on any other topic other than Antoine's build , send over a PM like I have and we can discuss it further.

Again just to clear up a few misconceptions:

Whatever the case we dont use regular Garrett GT turbochargers , we use Forced Performance which can put any compressor/turbine housing combination we request together (so that means even putting a 35R in a T04E comp housing)

In 2011 with GTX , HTA & EFR turbo's available I am not sure WHY anyone would be using a GT3582R on a 2L engine build unless they are building a drag car ....in which case a B6 would be a poor candidate.
For those that have asked about this set up. This will be replacing our "stage IV" kits . That entire thread needs a revamp but we are slowly going to phase out the use of the SPA manifold as I feel it is a better option to not only support one of our own but the fitment and ease of installation of the PSI concept is better.

[PSi Concepts]

I would use a HTA style 30-series, or a GTX-307x over a GT35x any day for the "usable" power band. If this question would have came up 2 years ago, the answer would definitely be a GT35...but even GT30's are hitting close to the 450whp+ mark.

[dougyfresh]

That entire thread needs a revamp but we are slowly going to phase out the use of the SPA manifold as I feel it is a better option to not only support one of our own but the fitment and ease of installation of the PSI concept is better.

Those are very good reasons.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Issam you have to understand the HTA 3076r uses the same turbine housing as the basic Gt3076r so the placement of the turbo is the same, now the difference will be up front where with a basic 30r .60 compressor housing you have very little room to spare so with a larger .70 housing it will be interesting and I will be waiting to see if it somehow fits in there without pounding the frame rail with a sledge hammer.

[Exhibit A] As you can see there is very little room there between the basic GT3076r compressor cover and the frame rail.



Now with that being said, lets look at the size difference of a .60 and .70 compressor cover.

.60 GT30r on right, .70 on the PTE 5857 on the left shows a good everhead view.



Or if you want Garrett vs Garret, the 35r with the .70 and the 3076r with .60



Now I don't know the dimensions of the covers, maybe you do, but by looking at the physical size difference, do you think that much larger .70 cover is going to fit with that small amount of room to spare shown in the 1st pic?

And just for fun here is the 35r that fails big time.




Hopefully some of this will help the OP and others to make their decisions a little more informed down the road.

Oh and for the comment of Agtronic using a jig to make that piece, if I am not mistaken they do all their work on a work bench with an empty transmission and engine block/head using a little jig off the transmission to get the downpipe routed right, I am not aware of them having a B5 or B6 front end in their shop to physically put the manifold and downpipe setup inside of a car with it attached to their mockup engine.

[Antoinebourdeau]

What type of intercooler setup do you plan to run?

The ER sport will be for sale soon. A decision hasn't been made on what will replace it tho.

Antoine are you going to see how much power the audi makes with the stroker motor and K03?

I'm not doing it to see the gains between 2L and 1.8T w/k03 but to get a baseline dyno before every thing else goes on.

We built the motor to run on the K03 for now for 2 reasons.
1. See how the motor performs with 2008cc vs 1781cc (personal reasons)
2. Get all our ducks in a row to do the turbo kit transformation.
As in make sure intercooler piping , inlet piping and tuning can all be done with MINIMAL downtime possible.

This is not the end of this project.

Exactly... I have places to go, things to see, people to do... I needed my car back asap, so a decision was made to build it in stages to reduce downtime.

My goal with this build isn't to build the fastest car on here. Not saying it wont make good power, but ill be using this car as a daily driver (and I drive A LOT) so usable power band and reliability is more important to me.

[MMMB00ST_A4]

^Nice. Awesome build btw, ANTOINE(it's bothering me that people keep typing Anton). You Canadians really do shit right the first time. We like to procrastinate, and half-ass things the first go round, then learn the hard way what should have been done the first time. More pics of the car man, it looks clean as hell!

[Wizard-of-OD]

Oh and for the comment of Agtronic using a jig to make that piece, if I am not mistake they do all their work on a work bench with an empty transmission and engine block/head using a little jig off the transmission to get the downpipe routed right, I am not aware of them having a B5 or B6 front end in their shop to physically put the manifold and downpipe setup inside of a car with it attached to their mockup engine.

Whatever Markku has for the 1.8T 20V we supplied him in order to build parts to our specifications. He has had a B5/B6/C5 chassis since the start of the shop and I am sure if you searched his photos you would see it in there. I do appreciate your concern showing me images of Doug's mock up and such but again....it fits.

I have not tried the T04S 0.7 A/R cover (I assume a few have) but we can get much larger CHRA's into 0.6 A/R compressor housings if need be. Shortly you will see the entire PSI concept line up as we work with PSI concepts to develop solutions for everyone. If you are going big turbo and you are looking for a non tubular manifold set up then this is the choice for you.

[Dan[FN]6262]

you'll love it when it's finished, it'll be a completely different car