Frankenturbo Build Finally Happening

[jpurre]

Pulling the trigger on the F21 kit, new SMIC's and SRM DP's. Going to have a local performance shop do the build. I've been patiently waiting and debating whether to do it. And I came to the conclusion that you only live once. Might as well enjoy it So, time to go stage 3- (I know, red headed step kid). Maybe I will add fueling to go full stg3 later.. always an option

[Halfbreed]

Congrats and GL.

I feel obligated to say though, that i have seen quite a few builds on here go sour due to shops not knowing the b5 platform. Make sure your shop has done a few of these builds and/or is a audi/vw tech. I dont mean to sound like an ass. Just giving advice from the little info you provided.

[Don Supreme]

^ Ditto.

I am not sure where you are in Florida, but Global Auto is pretty familiar with the B5 S4.

http://global-autos.com/

[usmc.S4]

If they don't understand what "b5 s4" means, walk away.

[jpurre]

Thanks guys! Yeah, the shop I'm using is familiar with my car since they have been doing my major maintenance items for almost 3 years. They have dealt with several VW's and a couple other B5 platform cars. They specialize in BMW and the other European cars. The owner just built himself a custom E36 BMW 3 series drift car, with a Chevy 7.0L engine. He said it wasn't powerful enough, so he installed a Procharger on it with completely custom FMIC. I know this is not going to be a quick build, and things will pop up. But the sooner I get it started, the sooner I will be able to enjoy it!

[EvilSmurf]

Whos doing it?

[jpurre]

Shop called Ter-Tech.

[FlyboyS4]

Pulling the trigger on the F21 kit, new SMIC's and SRM DP's. Going to have a local performance shop do the build. I've been patiently waiting and debating whether to do it. And I came to the conclusion that you only live once. Might as well enjoy it So, time to go stage 3- (I know, red headed step kid). Maybe I will add fueling to go full stg3 later.. always an option

Could do the ETG Stage 3F and get the injectors and tune for them as well as the F21's.

[hots4auce]

Congrats one word of advice just do the fueling and tune to go full stage 3 the first time around!
And if your in SFL have you looked at USP or Wolf Cars. I'm sure your shop is giving you a much better
rate but you get what you pay for.

[jpurre]

Good point flyboy.. However, I've been talking to Doug at FT, and he is setting them up for an APR stg2 tune. I know it sounds silly, but I don't want full stg3 at the moment. This is my DD after all. I can always adjust the turbos and slap on the fueling later for the full stg3.

[jpurre]

Congrats one word of advice just do the fueling and tune to go full stage 3 the first time around!
And if your in SFL have you looked at USP or Wolf Cars. I'm sure your shop is giving you a much better
rate but you get what you pay for.

I had my APR tune done at USP. Those guys build some sick cars over there! I will get my stg2 reflash done there once the mechanical is complete.

[hots4auce]

chris is the man when it comes to tuning any vw/audi/porsche platform and hes good friends with the
owner of AWD Motorsports which do all the fast EVO's in SFL. Once you go full stage 3 F21 have him tune your
ride.

[jpurre]

I will be getting throwing the car on the dyno at AWD Motorsports, since USP no longer has their AWD dyno.

[hots4auce]

yea usp uses AWD's dyno lol

[FlyboyS4]

I know it sounds silly, but I don't want full stg3 at the moment.

Yes you do, you just don't realize that you do yet. You're on the slippery slope now, good luck stopping...

This is my DD after all.

Lol, don't we all say that.

[1thenaton1]

what is your quote on hours of labor from the shop you're using? out of curiosity

[jpurre]

what is your quote on hours of labor from the shop you're using? out of curiosity

Still waiting for the quote, they are quite busy over there. I will post it on the thread for reference when I get it.

[goalieman24]

Still waiting for the quote, they are quite busy over there. I will post it on the thread for reference when I get it.

Curious to see this as well. I recently got a few quotes... 17.30hrs($1704), 35hrs($3850), and a $1800 quote w/out # of hours... all from reputable shops.

Are you on a stock clutch? Staying on stock clutch?

[EvilSmurf]

Curious to see this as well. I recently got a few quotes... 17.30hrs($1704), 35hrs($3850), and a $1800 quote w/out # of hours... all from reputable shops.

Are you on a stock clutch? Staying on stock clutch?

Most shops will charge book time. What is the book time on repalcing factory turbos? This should be the rate, maybe + couple hours

[jpurre]

Curious to see this as well. I recently got a few quotes... 17.30hrs($1704), 35hrs($3850), and a $1800 quote w/out # of hours... all from reputable shops.

Are you on a stock clutch? Staying on stock clutch?

I have a *cough* tip car, replacing my torque converter at the same time while the engine/tranny is out :)

[That_Kid]

Could do the ETG Stage 3F and get the injectors and tune for them as well as the F21's.

I would seriously suggest not going with Epic Tuned. I was a Jfonz customer before he merged with ETG and ETG sent me my injectors for the kit i bought a month after everything else. To make matters worse they sent me my ECU back with the wrong tune on it, which cost me 500 bucks in egt sensors...and the car still isnt running right. After asking for them to ship the ecu back and fix their mistake they were nothing but rude and unprofessional.

[jpurre]

Eventually, if I feel the need for speed, I will get a set of EV14's and a walbro fuel pump with an upgraded tune. I've been using the APR stg1 (318hp/382tq) tune with my stock K03's and catback straight pipe. Doug recommended going to stg2 APR tune and he is setting up the waste gates on the F21's to be APR friendly. Just talked with the shop owner, I should have a quote soon.

[FlyboyS4]

Doug recommended going to stg2 APR tune and he is setting up the waste gates on the F21's to be APR friendly.

Do you know if that's been done before? Do you have VCDS so you can check fault codes?

[jpurre]

Not sure if it has been done before. But that's the direction I'm headed.. need to get a cable so I can see specifics.

[FlyboyS4]

Not sure if it has been done before. But that's the direction I'm headed.. need to get a cable so I can see specifics.

Getting set up to use the ME7Logger would be a good idea as well. I seem to recall the APR code being quick to go into limp mode when things don't respond as it expects. I'm assuming just the preload will be adjusted to match a K03 and the spring rate will still be for an F21 and not a K03. As long as you're ready to possibly do some troubleshooting it should be an interesting experiment.

[jpurre]

Out of curiosity, I wonder if there are any Frankenturbo-tiptronic members? I may need some help/advice at some point with this project :)

[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

Do you know if that's been done before? Do you have VCDS so you can check fault codes?

It has. Quite a bit, actually. But APR stg2 numbers with our 21s aren't really the kind of stats we advertise/promote.

[jpurre]

It has. Quite a bit, actually. But APR stg2 numbers with our 21s aren't really the kind of stats we advertise/promote.

Ok, thanks Doug. I understand the position. My goal with the build is to have reliable, upgraded turbos, daily driver that can be easily upgraded later if I choose to do so. I realize the F21 is much more capable than what I'm doing with it. But I wanted a solid pair of turbos in my car and these look like they fit the bill.

[airjawed]

I am running an APR tune with frankenturbos on a tiptronic...stock fueling.

I ran the turbos with 12psi wastegates because I didn't want to have to dig in there and adjust them when I go to full stage 3. I worked around it by putting a manual boost controller on the N75 atmosphere line(not in parallel!!!!). I've been driving this way for a year and I daily drive. No codes. It just takes a little adjusting of the boost controller. You do lose ECU control of boost between stock and 12psi wastegate pressure...you also would limp to 12psi and not stock.

I do drive hard and just did an autocross this last weekend.

Best option though is to retune and eventually get fueling to match the turbos. But PM me if you are interested in this intermediate work around.

[FlyboyS4]

I am running an APR tune with frankenturbos on a tiptronic...stock fueling.

There you go.

[jpurre]

I am running an APR tune with frankenturbos on a tiptronic...stock fueling.

I ran the turbos with 12psi wastegates because I didn't want to have to dig in there and adjust them when I go to full stage 3. I worked around it by putting a manual boost controller on the N75 atmosphere line(not in parallel!!!!). I've been driving this way for a year and I daily drive. No codes. It just takes a little adjusting of the boost controller. You do lose ECU control of boost between stock and 12psi wastegate pressure...you also would limp to 12psi and not stock.

I do drive hard and just did an autocross this last weekend.

Best option though is to retune and eventually get fueling to match the turbos. But PM me if you are interested in this intermediate work around.

Thanks, I will take you up on that once I get this going. All my major gear is arriving Tuesday. Christmas in August!

[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

I worked around it by putting a manual boost controller on the N75 atmosphere line(not in parallel!!!!). I've been driving this way for a year and I daily drive. No codes. It just takes a little adjusting of the boost controller. You do lose ECU control of boost between stock and 12psi wastegate pressure...you also would limp to 12psi and not stock.

What prompted you to avoid a parallel installation? Was it a performance decision or a drivability one?

[airjawed]

What prompted you to avoid a parallel installation? Was it a performance decision or a drivability one?

I was trying to think of how to best make the N75 match the actual vs requested. I started to think that I needed to shift the boost PID over which normally is done via tune. APR doesn't offer stage 3 tunes separately so I needed a temporary method before I did fueling. Looking at the boost curve you get with it in parallel you do control the spike but the boost doesn't taper off at the upper end causing possible lean condition.

In order for the actual to be closer to requested at all times I put the boost controller on the N75 line and this in essence makes the N75 vent less everywhere while maintaining N75 control. It just shifts the PID over.

Another thing that it actually helps with is that the valve cover gaskets do not leak as much since there is less venting at the N75 into the pcv system.

Since the actual vs requested are closer to each other this way it seems to be better in performance and in driveability. I'll eventually do fueling and a retune though.

[EvilSmurf]

Could you of not done this while maintaining the DVs in parallel?

I was trying to think of how to best make the N75 match the actual vs requested. I started to think that I needed to shift the boost PID over which normally is done via tune. APR doesn't offer stage 3 tunes separately so I needed a temporary method before I did fueling. Looking at the boost curve you get with it in parallel you do control the spike but the boost doesn't taper off at the upper end causing possible lean condition.

In order for the actual to be closer to requested at all times I put the boost controller on the N75 line and this in essence makes the N75 vent less everywhere while maintaining N75 control. It just shifts the PID over.

Another thing that it actually helps with is that the valve cover gaskets do not leak as much since there is less venting at the N75 into the pcv system.

Since the actual vs requested are closer to each other this way it seems to be better in performance and in driveability. I'll eventually do fueling and a retune though.

[airjawed]

Could you of not done this while maintaining the DVs in parallel?

I didn't do anything to my DV's.... maybe you mistyped.

With a MBC in parallel it controls the spikes but nothing else really. At boost levels below what the MBC(spring type) is set for the N75 is still not going to open to the correct level.

I am not using a spring type MBC... the one I am using is even more basic in that it just limits the flow opening. It is somewhat the mechanical equivalent of adjusting the boost PID in the tune.

[jpurre]

Update: Received my F21's today, along with SMIC and down pipes. Now if I could just get that quote from my shop.. will have to remind him today.

[EvilSmurf]

Time to turn your own wrench!

[jpurre]

Time to turn your own wrench!

If I had enough skills/tools and time, I would. This is out of my league.

[jpurre]

So I got a quote from one shop of $85/hr and 17.5 hours for the turbo replacement. I don't think that's bad, considering its a shop that does only Audi/VW cars. The guy knew right away about the B5.

[soeuroithurts]

So I got a quote from one shop of $85/hr and 17.5 hours for the turbo replacement. I don't think that's bad, considering its a shop that does only Audi/VW cars. The guy knew right away about the B5.

I think that's a lot of hours honestly. I believe my buddy and i did his in roughly 10 and we ate some pizza.