New Dyno My 2.0T APR stg 2+

[B7Daily]

This is an uncorrected dyno not SAE or any "fake or higher" numbers

[jimrobbington]

So if you have uncorrected numbers, what elevation are you at?

JR

[B7Daily]

So if you have uncorrected numbers, what elevation are you at?

JR

Elevation: 321 metres (1053 feet)

Have you dyno'd your car?

[psiaddict85]

Seems about right... at 25% DTL that's about 280chp

[jimrobbington]

Elevation: 321 metres (1053 feet)

Have you dyno'd your car?

Yes, I have. Uncorrected at around 5500 ft elevation I have 182whp/245wtq. But corrected, I have 221whp/302wtq.

JR

[B7Daily]

I thought they advertised like 230 or 240 whp but I guess not ...

[jimrobbington]

I thought they advertised like 230 or 240 whp but I guess not ...

I'm sure I'd be there if I had a fmic and intake.

Actually, REVO only claims 255chp/285ctq on stage 1, with 5-10% more power at stage 2, so I am right in line with hp, but way over on tq.

JR

[WalkerT]

JR you are running 91 oct and I think you would be past that with just running 93 tune without a FMIC or Intake.

[WalkerT]

OP are you running 91 or 93?

[B7Daily]

JR you are running 91 oct and I think you would be past that with just running 93 tune without a FMIC or Intake.

I dont know about that how much does a FMIC or TSMIC add? and and intake? a drop in K&N vs a intake?

[WalkerT]

My AWE FMIC added 2-5 psi and the drop of intake temps makes a large difference when you are doing back to back pulls.

[jimrobbington]

JR you are running 91 oct and I think you would be past that with just running 93 tune without a FMIC or Intake.

My dyno was done with 91, and timing for 91. I didn't advance timing until after the dyno. I estimate 285 chp from my dyno, which I am happy with for as few performance mods as I have. I wish dynos were cheap, I would love to do another one, just to see the difference of the timing adjustment.

JR

[B7Daily]

if you look at my dyno above they are back to back and there was no, zero drop in the hp pull after pull

[jimrobbington]

if you look at my dyno above they are back to back and there was no, zero drop in the hp pull after pull

It's true. My first set of dynos were done on a hot morning, about 75°-80°, and my best dyno was 201 hp, decreasing about 5-10 hp each pull.

My most recent dyno was done at about 28°, and I actually got the best numbers on the third pull, although the torque curve looked a little better on the first.
Temperature is directly related to power to a certain extent.

JR

[WalkerT]

Winter time is different on a dyno but here in Dallas when it is 110+ the intercooler is worth its weight in gold. My stock side mounts would heat soak in minutes and the car was very sluggish. Now there is very little difference in sumer. There is a gain in winter when my intake temps are in the 40-50's even after running hard for a hour. I feel that in real world racing the stock side mounts do not have enough flow to 100% keep up with a tuned a4 heat output.







..

[carguy138]

It's true. My first set of dynos were done on a hot morning, about 75°-80°, and my best dyno was 201 hp, decreasing about 5-10 hp each pull.

My most recent dyno was done at about 28°, and I actually got the best numbers on the third pull, although the torque curve looked a little better on the first.
Temperature is directly related to power to a certain extent.

JR

Can you give a good description of the difference from going stage 2 to 2+? Been on the fence for a while and some of the opinions I've come across on here say it's not worth it if you don't plan on going BT. On the other hand some say there is a big difference. I am not going to bother with upgrading the turbo because I'd eventually like to get a 335/135.

Thinking about getting the HPFPupgrade, 145 rail valve, APR 2+ file. On my B7, I have a 6MT Quattro, APR 93, 034 HFC, and FMIC. Elevation of 400ft above sea level. If I had to guess I am probably around 260CHP and it seems like this upgrade is worth another 20-30hp and smooths out power delivery in the mid-upper portion of the power band.

Anyways your thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

[jimrobbington]

I'm only stage 2, but definitely look forward to going 2+ when I can. From what I have heard, you don't lose power above 5k RPMS, it just keeps pulling. I don't know if anything else is affected much beyond that.

JR

[wootwoot]

I saw that you added this to the dyno thread. I made sure to put you in the main list on the first page. Nice numbers!

[slvrb7]

i can post my results on this thread as well but i dynoed yesturday 221 awhp and 255 awtq on a mustang dyno running apr 93 octane stage 2+. i wonder why i dont push as much torque as everyone else could it be the dyno op?

[slvrb7]

or could it be to much heat soak i drove 30 miles right on to dyno not much of a chance to cool down. highway miles that is.

[jimrobbington]

If I were you, I'd pull some logs to verify requested vs. actual fuel rail pressure, you may not be running perfectly. But on the other hand, it is APR.

[wootwoot]

But on the other hand, it is APR.

Haters gonna hate

[shiro1745]

OP sill didn't answer 91 or 93?

^ I'm APR and no hate here. I really like Jim's dyno, I had revo on my car when I bought it and loved it.
On a side note I cannot wait to get my W/M and rs4 PRV installed, they're just sitting in my bedroom screaming at me they want on the car. I still haven't done my carbon cleaning yet. I've been really busy lately. But after all that gets done I'll do a few dyno pulls. That will be on 100oct file.

[jimrobbington]

OP sill didn't answer 91 or 93?

^ I'm APR and no hate here. I really like Jim's dyno, I had revo on my car when I bought it and loved it.
On a side note I cannot wait to get my W/M and rs4 PRV installed, they're just sitting in my bedroom screaming at me they want on the car. I still haven't done my carbon cleaning yet. I've been really busy lately. But after all that gets done I'll do a few dyno pulls. That will be on 100oct file.

Wait, so you had Revo on the car when you bought it, then you overwrote it with APR!? Oh well. I got the 145 bar hpfp prv waiting to go in. I need to do that by itself so I cam pull more fuel logs and see the change. Then on to the carbon cleaning. After that, it would be kinda awesome to run a 100 oct dyno to see the increase over my previous dyno and have a new baseline before fmic/meth/2+.

[jimrobbington]

Then again, it would also be cool to dyno on 91 again after the carbon cleaning to see only the gains that that provides. What to do.....

[CorneliusRox]

Whenever someone gets a dyno for our car's, I am always disappointed. They are quick to be in, and pull surprisingly well, but the numbers are always so low.

Oh well, I still want to go the JR route and push my K03 to the limits. Maybe up it to a K0R-GT down the road, or whatever is best then for drivability.

No offence to OP. That's good stuff you're throwing down

[crazytex21]

^that's what i am doing as well. i decided i am going to take it as far as thing thing will go. also, it gives me something to do while i wait for the EFR's to be available on the market again.

nice numbers OP

[CorneliusRox]

while i wait for the EFR's to be available on the market

Every two months they push it back two months! what the heck

[M-Hood]

Yes, I have. Uncorrected at around 5500 ft elevation I have 182whp/245wtq. But corrected, I have 221whp/302wtq.

JR

Were you using a NA correction on the dyno? Because a NA correction of nearly 22% is too high for a turbo car, at 5500 ft a turbo correction is only about 18%. That would put you at 214whp/289wtq. Problem is that the dyno programs dont have a turbo correction setting, but many turbo dyno shops will tend to use STD for a correction. Still best to just use uncorrected since that is what the car is actually making, no point in knowing what the car isn't making. lol

Every two months they push it back two months! what the heck

They push it back because there aren't any coming out of BW and those 2 months are really just for those that have already placed an order. There are people that ordered in 2010 that are still waiting, I ordered in April and am still waiting. At this point they are even saying 6-7 months if placing an order now.

[jimrobbington]

Were you using a NA correction on the dyno? Because a NA correction of nearly 22% is too high for a turbo car, at 5500 ft a turbo correction is only about 18%. That would put you at 214whp/289wtq.

Not sure? I mean, it's an Evo shop, so they pretty much only work on turbo cars. I figured they knew what they were doing. The correction factor says stp 1.211 for that day.

[shiro1745]

Wait, so you had Revo on the car when you bought it, then you overwrote it with APR!? Oh well. I got the 145 bar hpfp prv waiting to go in. I need to do that by itself so I cam pull more fuel logs and see the change. Then on to the carbon cleaning. After that, it would be kinda awesome to run a 100 oct dyno to see the increase over my previous dyno and have a new baseline before fmic/meth/2+.

OP sorry for going off topic. Yeah Jim, it's a long story, when I bought my car it was pulling like a beast compared to what it is now, it had REVO, FMIC,EXHAUST, possible MBC. Back then I knew nothing about cars and tuning, it was purchased as a CPO with all the mods and then got into some troubles with the warranty and decided to bring it back stock so I can keep my CPO, after dealer removed the tune and fmic I reinstalled APR just cause it was the closest around at the time, I wish there was a REVO dealer around. But don't get me wrong I don't hate APR. Again I'm not sure why the car was so fast back then, I was able to brake wheels loose in third gear(FWD). I miss those times.

Whenever someone gets a dyno for our car's, I am always disappointed. They are quick to be in, and pull surprisingly well, but the numbers are always so low.

Oh well, I still want to go the JR route and push my K03 to the limits. Maybe up it to a K0R-GT down the road, or whatever is best then for drivability.

No offence to OP. That's good stuff you're throwing down

^that's what i am doing as well. i decided i am going to take it as far as thing thing will go. also, it gives me something to do while i wait for the EFR's to be available on the market again.

nice numbers OP

I guess it's a few of us that will try pushing the small K03 to the limit. I already have a spare K03 waiting to get it's internals swapped by RAI but not very soon.

[jimrobbington]

Some people forget (or I forget to mention) that I originally dyno'd my car at stage 2 with 100 oct and only got 201whp/258wtq. This disappointed me. So I did a bunch of maintenance, and a wastegate adjustment, and dyno'd again on the same dyno, and only on 91 oct and came out at 221whp/302wtq. Regardless of accuracy, that's a 20whp/44wtq gain from some tlc, and that's real.

[crazytex21]

Every two months they push it back two months! what the heck

i still have my RAI DP, 3" exhaust, underdive pulley, 145 PRV, and Eurodyne BMP to install. moar powwwwwaaa

[wootwoot]

Some people forget (or I forget to mention) that I originally dyno'd my car at stage 2 with 100 oct and only got 201whp/258wtq. This disappointed me. So I did a bunch of maintenance, and a wastegate adjustment, and dyno'd again on the same dyno, and only on 91 oct and came out at 221whp/302wtq. Regardless of accuracy, that's a 20whp/44wtq gain from some tlc, and that's real.

You don't think the wastegate adjustment had a large part in these gains?

[M-Hood]

Some people forget (or I forget to mention) that I originally dyno'd my car at stage 2 with 100 oct and only got 201whp/258wtq. This disappointed me. So I did a bunch of maintenance, and a wastegate adjustment, and dyno'd again on the same dyno, and only on 91 oct and came out at 221whp/302wtq. Regardless of accuracy, that's a 20whp/44wtq gain from some tlc, and that's real.

What was the difference between the 2 just using the uncorrected numbers? Problem with using corrected numbers is that they can actually make the gains look bigger then they really are. Still not sure why anyone uses corrected numbers anymore since all that does is increase the numbers but doesn't change the power band or how the turbo is going to react in a different adjusted Altitude. The correction can give you a really bad false reading to the point where the numbers are way above what the turbo can actually flow. Correction readings work great for NA cars because there isn't something pushing air into the motor that will have a limit.

[jimrobbington]

You don't think the wastegate adjustment had a large part in these gains?

It could be most of the gain, but in all actuality, my turbo is still only working like it should have in the first place. Boosting 20-21 psi like I should all summer so far. Only in winter when the air is dense and cold, then I can hit 25 psi.

What was the difference between the 2 just using the uncorrected numbers? Problem with using corrected numbers is that they can actually make the gains look bigger then they really are. Still not sure why anyone uses corrected numbers anymore since all that does is increase the numbers but doesn't change the power band or how the turbo is going to react in a different adjusted Altitude. The correction can give you a really bad false reading to the point where the numbers are way above what the turbo can actually flow. Correction readings work great for NA cars because there isn't something pushing air into the motor that will have a limit.

Again, I can't prove anything, as I don't have uncorrected numbers from the original dyno. All I know is it feels just like it should, and it's faster than any other stage 2 a4 I have come across.

In my experience, no matter what, someone will tell you your dyno is wrong. If your numbers are higher than everyone else's, they will complain it was calculated wrong. Whatever. I believe my numbers, because I can feel it, and I know my car pushes the envelope of stage 2.

[M-Hood]

It could be most of the gain, but in all actuality, my turbo is still only working like it should have in the first place. Boosting 20-21 psi like I should all summer so far. Only in winter when the air is dense and cold, then I can hit 25 psi.



Again, I can't prove anything, as I don't have uncorrected numbers from the original dyno. All I know is it feels just like it should, and it's faster than any other stage 2 a4 I have come across.

In my experience, no matter what, someone will tell you your dyno is wrong. If your numbers are higher than everyone else's, they will complain it was calculated wrong. Whatever. I believe my numbers, because I can feel it, and I know my car pushes the envelope of stage 2.

Well that is because the dyno is a tuning tool not a measuring stick. lol
The main issue with using a correction on a dyno is that the higher you go in elevation the higher correction numbers you will end up with. So if you put your car on the same dyno on 2 different days with 2 completely different conditions the corrected numbers will not come out the same. I have seen people take their cars to a dyno at sea level and not end up making anywhere near their high elevation corrected numbers. Basically a corrected dyno reading is just a ego booster.

Problem with using correction numbers is the fact that the car is not making those numbers, it just becomes a "IF" factor. I have been on a bunch of dyno's in the 12 years I have owned a A4, everything from 200whp with my little 1.8t K03 to over 600whp.


BTW if you can feel a difference in power then that is what counts.

[jimrobbington]

Well that is because the dyno is a tuning tool not a measuring stick. lol
The main issue with using a correction on a dyno is that the higher you go in elevation the higher correction numbers you will end up with. So if you put your car on the same dyno on 2 different days with 2 completely different conditions the corrected numbers will not come out the same.

Problem with using correction numbers is the fact that the car is not making those numbers, it just becomes a "IF" factor. I have been on a bunch of dyno's in the 12 years I have owned a A4, everything from 200whp with my little 1.8t K03 to over 600whp.


BTW if you can feel a difference in power then that is what counts.

Well, my original worst dyno has a correction factor of 1.247 (vs 1.211), so does that mean it was corrected more or less?

I concur, it is a tuning tool, but I still think it's a fair measuring tool. I may weigh 200 lb on one scale, and 212 lb on another, but I feel it's all in the ball park.

[Existentialist]

If I were you, I'd pull some logs to verify requested vs. actual fuel rail pressure, you may not be running perfectly. But on the other hand, it is APR.

I think APR changed their 2+ file at some point. On my 08 with a 126 bar PRV, I'm only requesting a rail pressure of 109.99 bar. I can't find confirmation on this, but my guess is somebody with a pre-07 ran into issues with their 116 bar PRV so APR dropped the requested pressure for all of their B7 2+ tunes.

[jimrobbington]

I think APR changed their 2+ file at some point. On my 08 with a 126 bar PRV, I'm only requesting a rail pressure of 109.99 bar. I can't find confirmation on this, but my guess is somebody with a pre-07 ran in to issues with their 116 bar PRV so APR dropped the requested pressure for all of their B7 2+ tunes.

Wow, if that's true, that's downright pathetic on APR's part. So really, there is absolutely no reason to get a hpfp with APR because it requests the same fuel pressure as a stage 2 file? Great way to "fix" the problem APR. Lol. A real 2+ tune should push 129.9 bar fueling.