Car key stolen last night, how to rekey the car

[twfry]

My car key was stolen last night from the driveway. The front of the car is currently disassembled while working on it, so I left the keys in the car for convenience without thinking about it since it can't start anyway.

But now that someone went through the car and stole the key I just realized I need to rekey the whole car or else they will be able to drive off after I finish putting it back together.

What is the best way to do this? Can I just replace all of the keys and cylinders and then program the new keys to the car? Or would I need to go to the dealership to get the immobilizer reprogrammed. My preference is to do this myself if possible, but I'm not sure about the immobilizer and if I need the ECU reprogrammed. My hope is I could replace the cylinders to a new physical key pattern and leave the ECU as is.

Another option I guess is to install a kill switch somewhere, but this person would still have physical access and can come back anytime.

[shurur9]

My car key was stolen last night from the driveway. The front of the car is currently disassembled while working on it, so I left the keys in the car for convenience without thinking about it since it can't start anyway.

But now that someone went through the car and stole the key I just realized I need to rekey the whole car or else they will be able to drive off after I finish putting it back together.

What is the best way to do this? Can I just replace all of the keys and cylinders and then program the new keys to the car? Or would I need to go to the dealership to get the immobilizer reprogrammed. My preference is to do this myself if possible, but I'm not sure about the immobilizer and if I need the ECU reprogrammed. My hope is I could replace the cylinders to a new physical key pattern and leave the ECU as is.

Another option I guess is to install a kill switch somewhere, but this person would still have physical access and can come back anytime.

maybe the best way is to get a new switch.
I'd call a mobile locksmith.
A new set of keys can be made and that old key taken off the list of coded keys.

If you really want to sleep at night, take a look at RAVELCO after you get her running.
they install in your driveway and legit.

[twfry]

Thanks, for anyone interested I called the stealership and here is what they said

Option 1 - New key with reprogramming - $290 for key, $150 for programming. Old key would then be disabled by the immobilizer.

However, it was as not clear if the old key when inserted could be used to reactivate itself with the standard steps to program in a new key, or if the old key would be permanently disabled by the immobilizer.

Option 2 - New key and cylinder kit - $800 for parts, $150 for programming, 4+ hours labor.

At this point I'm thinking of biting the bullet and getting the kit and programming done, but install the cylinders myself. I've put enough work into this car over the past 14 years to not want someone to drive off with it...

If anyone has a better idea, let me know.

maybe the best way is to get a new switch.
A new set of keys can be made and that old key taken off the list of coded keys.

To do this requires reprogramming by Audi, or some authorized service, right? My main question is if the key is taken off the list of coded keys, what does that mean exactly? That the key will forever not be able to start the car, or when inserted into the ignition it could it be reprogrammed back in if you knew the steps. Thanks!

[trosell14843]

WOW STEAL WORSHIP FOR SURE

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08S8 Western NY

[jjvwg]

Thanks, for anyone interested I called the stealership and here is what they said

Option 1 - New key with reprogramming - $290 for key, $150 for programming. Old key would then be disabled by the immobilizer.

However, it was as not clear if the old key when inserted could be used to reactivate itself with the standard steps to program in a new key, or if the old key would be permanently disabled by the immobilizer.

Option 2 - New key and cylinder kit - $800 for parts, $150 for programming, 4+ hours labor.

At this point I'm thinking of biting the bullet and getting the kit and programming done, but install the cylinders myself. I've put enough work into this car over the past 14 years to not want someone to drive off with it...

If anyone has a better idea, let me know.



To do this requires reprogramming by Audi, or some authorized service, right? My main question is if the key is taken off the list of coded keys, what does that mean exactly? That the key will forever not be able to start the car, or when inserted into the ignition it could it be reprogrammed back in if you knew the steps. Thanks!

In that case, if whoever stole your key was savvy enough to have something like vag commander and vagcom they could pull your SKC and recode the immobilizer, but I would think the chances of that would be slim. An option to avoid that would be to pick up an ECU and cluster from a wrecked car and swap them in to your car, set mileage to your correct mileage and get a new immobilizer pill for any keys that’s you still have unless they stole your only key, in which case you would need a new one made. Either way they would still have access to the inside of your car with the key blade alone.


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[twfry]

This was an idiot rummaging around an unlocked car with the key in it. I'm guessing not too savvy. If I went with the "just reprogram and use my spare key" option I want to make sure he couldn't reprogram the old key back in somehow. Still would have physical access which I'm not too excited about and the key kit seems the only way around that.

An option to avoid that would be to pick up an ECU and cluster from a wrecked car and swap them in to your car, set mileage to your correct mileage and get a new immobilizer pill for any keys that’s you still have unless they stole your only key, in which case you would need a new one made. Either way they would still have access to the inside of your car with the key blade alone.

That sounds like a lot of hours, I usually go for alternative or junk yard parts, but finding and pulling good ECU's and cluster and rewiring all of that is not trivial. Removing the cluster is a lot less fun than swapping cylinders IMHO.

WOW STEAL WORSHIP FOR SURE

Dude, I just rebuilt my entire front end from 80% junk yards parts, $2K parts (mostly painting) vs. a shop estimate of $8K. If I can find that Audi kit for ~$600 and it fully swaps cylinders and codes that seems worth it for piece of mind and keeps the car from being stolen next month....

[jjvwg]

This was an idiot rummaging around an unlocked car with the key in it. I'm guessing not too savvy. If I went with the "just reprogram and use my spare key" option I want to make sure he couldn't reprogram the old key back in somehow. Still would have physical access which I'm not too excited about and the key kit seems the only way around that.

Unfortunately they still could if they had the right tools.

That sounds like a lot of hours, I usually go for alternative or junk yard parts, but finding and pulling good ECU's and cluster and rewiring all of that is not trivial. Removing the cluster is a lot less fun than swapping cylinders IMHO.

Cluster is two screws, ECU is 2 nuts for wiper blades and 5 for the plenum cover. No rewriting would be needed.

Other option would be to find someone parting a car and take the cylinders and keys and just get virgin immo pills to code to your immo



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[shurur9]

ebay. key lock set used..contact wolf auto on ebay and tell them what you need.
diy.

and/or call a mobile locksmith to get a better price.
he might be able to change/mod all the key locks...maybe you could take them out and bring them all to him..

[EuroxS4]

You could get a new key and have it programmed to the vehicle,When programming you need to make sure a new immobilizer id is issued. I order to make sure your other stolen/lost key cannot be used to start the car.Physically it will still open the vehicle but will not be able to start it.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Not the exact same scenario as you have, but you may find something useful from this thread....

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...y-fob-now-what!

[twfry]

Thanks for the pointers all. For anyone interested the full rekey kit is part number 8E0898375A and its available online for ~$500. It contains a complete set of new FOB keys and cylinders (door, ignition, trunk, glove box, 2 back seats) all cut to a new pattern. I'll probably go with that, install myself and then look for a cheaper reprogramming option to disable the old key.

The issue is the key was stolen out of the driveway and the person can come back anytime after I put the front back on and walk off with the car. A full physical rekey is really the only way to get peace of mind on this. Swapping clusters still allows for physical access and tampering. A new key from the dealer is $300 BTW, so this kit seems quite reasonable. My old keys were 14 years old and failing and both needed to be replaced soon anyway.

Last question, is there a way to fully disable the car after I put the front back on and reconnect the electronics. i.e. an easily accessible fuse that cuts power to everything. I need a way to disable the car after the car is working again but before I receive the kit and swap the keys, ideally something that is relatively quick to do each day until this is resolved. Otherwise I'll probably pull the battery every night and put a motion sensor under the hood connected to an alarm, which is a pain.

[imnuts]

When you're going through the key pairing sequence for the immobilizer, it should wipe any previous keys that were matched from memory and not let them start the car anymore, assuming the immobilizer is active. Only keys that you have with you to match at the time should work to start the car then.

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[hightime80]

Thanks for the pointers all. For anyone interested the full rekey kit is part number 8E0898375A and its available online for ~$500. It contains a complete set of new FOB keys and cylinders (door, ignition, trunk, glove box, 2 back seats) all cut to a new pattern. I'll probably go with that, install myself and then look for a cheaper reprogramming option to disable the old key.

The issue is the key was stolen out of the driveway and the person can come back anytime after I put the front back on and walk off with the car. A full physical rekey is really the only way to get peace of mind on this. Swapping clusters still allows for physical access and tampering. A new key from the dealer is $300 BTW, so this kit seems quite reasonable. My old keys were 14 years old and failing and both needed to be replaced soon anyway.

Last question, is there a way to fully disable the car after I put the front back on and reconnect the electronics. i.e. an easily accessible fuse that cuts power to everything. I need a way to disable the car after the car is working again but before I receive the kit and swap the keys, ideally something that is relatively quick to do each day until this is resolved. Otherwise I'll probably pull the battery every night and put a motion sensor under the hood connected to an alarm, which is a pain.

Fuel pump relay 372. Right above clutch pedal. It won't cut cut power to everything but it damn sure won't start.

[twfry]

When you're going through the key pairing sequence for the immobilizer, it should wipe any previous keys that were matched from memory and not let them start the car anymore, assuming the immobilizer is active. Only keys that you have with you to match at the time should work to start the car then.
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Here are the key pairing steps that I've been able to find:
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...i-flip-key-fob

The steps say that the other keys will be erased, so I guess that means I don't need to get a reprogramming and can do it all at home, great!

Fuel pump relay 372. Right above clutch pedal. It won't cut cut power to everything but it damn sure won't start.

I'll probably try that and a few other fuses as well, maybe the ECU fuse and something else. My hope was there was a kill all ground fuse or a fuse to cut off the ignition switch, but I couldn't find that after searching a bit.

Thanks for the help everyone, it looks that I can get the full re-key kit for a reasonable price and do everything at home. That is better than I expected.

Edit: Actually on investigating this more the steps above only program the FOB for lock/unlock functionality, it does nothing for the immobilizer. The immobilizer needs an internal pin and even a ross tech VAGCOM won't do it anymore from reading there. Will probably just go stealership for the immobilizer programming. It looks that there are some defeats out there but it all sounds hit or miss and I don't want to waste more time on it.
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a6-...lized-2794469/

[shurur9]

Check out ravelco.
Check out vag-key login tool

[twfry]

After calling several dealers that sell OEM parts at discounted prices, it turned out none of them could sell the re-key kit online even though they list it. VAG requires dealers to sell the kit in-person and with proof of ownership. All said sorry go to your local dealer. My local dealer offers 10% discount from MSRP, so the kit would be ~$650 vs $730 MSRP.

Spent a few hours exploring the world of Immobilizer III mechanisms, programming and defeats. The RossTech website makes it sound that re-programming is not possible since dealers cannot give the 7-digit SKC since 2005, but there are tools available to get the base 4-digit PIN that can be used to do anything. Apparently we can even change the odometer which is shocking.

Here is what I am now coming around to which is MUCH cheaper, simply reprogram both:
a) the FOB keyless entry and
b) the immobilizer
to lock out the stolen key.

At that point the stolen key could be used to physically unlock from the driver side door, but the key would be blocked by the immobilizer from running the car and the keyless entry if tried would start the alarm.

Then to fully secure the car I'll swap the driver side door cylinder with a new cylinder and key from the junk yard. I could now use my current keys for keyless entry and ignition, and use the new junk yard key for physical door unlocking if needed for some reason. While the stolen key would be fully locked out at that point (my truck cylinder hasn't worked in 5 years so that path is already blocked).

For pin access the VAG K+CAN Commander looks to do the trick
https://sites.google.com/site/imnuts/

Ross Tech instructions to reprogram the immobilizer (once you have the PIN)
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...hing_(Cluster)

Another advantage of this is apparently we are limited to 8 keys per the lifetime of the Immobilizer/Cluster panel, by reprogramming with my existing 2 remaining keys I can disable the old key while not using any of the remaining slots.

Check out ravelco.
Check out vag-key login tool

Thanks, ravelco looks interesting but won't blocking at the immobilizer level do the same thing? For getting the pin out the VAG K+CAN Commander looked by far the cheapest.

Overall this has been a pain, but I've learned a lot and think I have a solution for less than $100 now. This learning has also made me more convinced that I am keeping my B6 forever. Apparently starting at B7 (or B8) the even Ross Tech can't program the immobilizer and you are forced to go to the dealer for everything key related, while for B6s we can do anything.

If there are any flaws to this plan, please let me know.

[shurur9]

Maybe get the matching trunk lock at a junk yard too.
Although I would change the entire key set out..

[jjvwg]

If you’re cool with a mismatched door lock key then your last post is by far the easiest option considering it takes about a minute to swap a new door cylinder in. Granted, if the person who stole your key knew how to break into cars and did have the know how to pull the SKC and had vag com to reprogram the key then they could technically still drive away with it but the chances are slim so I wouldn’t be worried.

FYI, you can download vag k commander 2.5 for free online, don’t pay someone for something you can get for free!


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[DPDISXR4Ti]

I got confused by all the different versions of VAG K Commander and went with VAG EEPROM 1.19. See the notes in my thread linked above on using that, as it's not entirely intuitive (but not actually difficult at all once you know what to do). And yes, the most common use of these programs seems to be changing the odometer mileage in your cluster! Many of the Youtube videos seem to be foreign hackers promoting this capability.

[twfry]

If you’re cool with a mismatched door lock key then your last post is by far the easiest option considering it takes about a minute to swap a new door cylinder in. Granted, if the person who stole your key knew how to break into cars and did have the know how to pull the SKC and had vag com to reprogram the key then they could technically still drive away with it but the chances are slim so I wouldn’t be worried.

Yes that is exactly what I was thinking, it is a super easy swap. We are likely going to move between states in a year or so, and I would swap the cylinder back after moving and everything would be matched again. So it's really just a temporary mismatch.

I got confused by all the different versions of VAG K Commander and went with VAG EEPROM 1.19. See the notes in my thread linked above on using that, as it's not entirely intuitive (but not actually difficult at all once you know what to do). And yes, the most common use of these programs seems to be changing the odometer mileage in your cluster! Many of the Youtube videos seem to be foreign hackers promoting this capability.

Thanks guys I'll take a look at the 2.5 commander and VAG EEPROM 1.19 versions and links.

The odometer discovery was shocking to me. Audi really dropped the ball on this one, it's nuts how easy they made it. It doesn't really matter for us 1.8T B6 guys since insurance companies place almost zero value to our cars no matter what, but S4's, A8's, etc. still have value and this being out there makes it impossible to trust any sale. I won't touch it because it is illegal, but I was joking with my wife that I'm going to UP the mileage to 750K or something so I can brag to people about how many miles I've put on the car....

[blitz2190]

I would recommend changing out the the tumbler and locks as mentioned, If I had a key that could turn the tumbler, it would take under 2 minutes to drive away with the car immo or not. I takes a trip to a junk yard and 20 minutes of work with free software to defeat the immo on another ecu to have ready and they may know that. that and a t30 and some cutters and you can swap the ecu in a minute or two, pull the flashers fuse, and drive away. your number one deterrent from that is the tumbler which takes considerably more effort and locks the steering wheel.

[twfry]

DPDISXR4Ti, Thanks a lot for the other thread, it's always helpful to see what someone else discovered.

Did you have any issues with the steps you found below? It sounds it required you to change the cluster and put it into a decrypted mode, then read data, then put it back into the normal state (mode 6). My worry with this is it is changes (even temporarily) the system, so if something went wrong it would foobar everything. i.e. what happens if you aren't able to put it back in mode 6. My hope was to find a method that only reads from the system to get the PIN but doesn't do anything (leave all modifications to ross tech). Maybe the process is easy & no risk and I'm reading too much into this. Anyway the KKL vag com cable was $6 on ebay so I just ordered one in case I go this path.

Do you have a link to the exact SW version you used? Or is it that same version in your link that was uploaded 11th May, 2012. Thanks again.

Got the new key programmed today and was able to drive the car home. Yeah!!!!

VAG EEPROM v1.19 was what I used (thanks Luxus!) to retrieve the SKC. If anyone ever needs a copy, send me a PM. Be sure to set the comm port to USB and use a "generic" eBay/China 409.1 cable. The net/net on the menu selection process is...

- Dash
- Bosch
- Audi A4 (RB4 Encrypted)
- Read EEprom (Encrypted) - Save file as a backup in case something goes wrong
- Put cluster into newmode (from mode 6 to mode 4) The first time I did this, I got an error, "Not KW2000 Protocol". Did it again and it worked fine.
- Read EEprom (Decrypted) SKC will appear at the bottom-center as a 4-digit number. Add a "0" to the front - i.e. 2942 becomes 02942. Write it down.
- Put cluster back into mode 6
- Exit VAG EEPROM.

It is important that you have a minimum of 12.5 volts during this operation. Play it safe and hook up a battery charger. My car had been sitting in a remote parking lot for the past two weeks so I brought a small generator to power my battery charger. Good thing as the battery measured 12.3 volts when I first got to the car this morning.

Key adaptation using VCDS was straight forward and went without a hitch. Ross-tech has a 3 minute video on Youtube which clearly shows the steps. The factory setting is 3 keys - I had to change it to 1, since that's all I have for now. I'm a little uncertain of how I'll add keys in the future while still keeping the current one functional.

Thanks to all who provided input on this unexpected venture.

[jjvwg]

I would recommend changing out the the tumbler and locks as mentioned, If I had a key that could turn the tumbler, it would take under 2 minutes to drive away with the car immo or not. I takes a trip to a junk yard and 20 minutes of work with free software to defeat the immo on another ecu to have ready and they may know that. that and a t30 and some cutters and you can swap the ecu in a minute or two, pull the flashers fuse, and drive away. your number one deterrent from that is the tumbler which takes considerably more effort and locks the steering wheel.

Defeating the ECU immo doesn’t mean you can drive with unmatched keys. They still need to communicate with the cluster immo.


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[jjvwg]

Twfry, if you use vag k commander 2.5 you do not need to access the cluster at all or change any settings so there is less risk of messing something up, you are simply reading the pin from the ECU.


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[blitz2190]

Defeating the ECU immo doesn’t mean you can drive with unmatched keys. They still need to communicate with the cluster immo.


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it will still run and drive, so yes you can. it will just flash and sound the alarm, both of which can be defeated before starting the car, I've done this with my car when I first started my swap and had non matching immo parts.

[shurur9]

I was only able to find vag commander 1.4 ans 3.6 online.
That's one reason I am getting the Vag-key login tool.

vag commander 2.4 or 2,5 are difficult to find and docs on what cars are covered for the other versions are nebulous.

[jjvwg]

it will still run and drive, so yes you can. it will just flash and sound the alarm, both of which can be defeated before starting the car, I've done this with my car when I first started my swap and had non matching immo parts.

Really? This I was unaware of, makes me feel less secure about my car now. Might look into wiring up a hidden kill switch myself.


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[blitz2190]

Really? This I was unaware of, makes me feel less secure about my car now. Might look into wiring up a hidden kill switch myself.


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yeah, the immo is a 3 part system, the key pairs to the cluster and the cluster send the signal to the ecu, if you disable immo on the ecu it no longer blocks the engine from running, the cluster only control the signals to flash to the hazards, and tells the alarm module in the trunk to sound. the biggest deterrent in this instance is the tumbler to prevent the steering wheel from turning and the ignition from operating. Unfortunately this can be bypassed with enough time as well but is the biggest hindrance to said thief. But at the end of the day it goes back to the saying "locks only keep honest people honest" meaning if they are determined enough you won't stop them so have insurance.

[twfry]

yeah, the immo is a 3 part system, the key pairs to the cluster and the cluster send the signal to the ecu, if you disable immo on the ecu it no longer blocks the engine from running, the cluster only control the signals to flash to the hazards, and tells the alarm module in the trunk to sound. the biggest deterrent in this instance is the tumbler to prevent the steering wheel from turning and the ignition from operating. Unfortunately this can be bypassed with enough time as well but is the biggest hindrance to said thief. But at the end of the day it goes back to the saying "locks only keep honest people honest" meaning if they are determined enough you won't stop them so have insurance.

OK, that is really interesting, thanks. I thought you meant it would take the person 2 minutes to add the old key back into the immo3 list of valid keys. Instead you are saying it takes 2 minutes to program the immo3 system out of the ECU entirely. I'll say it again, Audi seems to have really screwed up here.

Out of curiosity is this true for the new immo5 system? Ross Tech can't program those since the PIN rotates daily and needs to be provided by Audi's systems in Germany, forcing a visit to the dealer. But based on what you said it might be possible then to just flash the ECU and bypass the immo5 system entirely, or maybe there are additional protections in newer cars.

BTW, your 2.7T guide is giving me a lot to think about. I am planning to do a full refresh at year 18 or year 19 covering everything from the interior through the engine. Your guide makes it look so easy that I'm debating if a swap should be a part of it....

[blitz2190]

no idea, my knowledge on audi ecu's inner working stop at the b7. But yeah if someone could code out the immo on the ecu then yeah, as for the 2.7 swap, if you have all the part ahead of time plus the engine ready to go its not much different than just pulling the engine, having the down pipes pre-made and the wiring ready to go makes it much quicker. Do your research and get all the stuff you need ahead of time and you should be good. Its not so much they screwed up as someone has just found away around it, a lock is only secure until someone knows how to break it as it the case with all security digital and physical.

[twfry]

Its not so much they screwed up as someone has just found away around it, a lock is only secure until someone knows how to break it as it the case with all security digital and physical.

I used to be a software engineer with a focus on encryption, trust me they screwed up. To be fair though 99.9% of systems made companies that do not focus on security screw up their designs as well. With a better design it would be possible to fully lock it down, I can think of a few off they top of my head that could only be defeated with a full swap-out of the engine block, instrument cluster and frame/chassis (which at that point is a new car so why bother). It would add ~$250 in cost, so that's probably the reason.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Did you have any issues with the steps you found below? It sounds it required you to change the cluster and put it into a decrypted mode, then read data, then put it back into the normal state (mode 6).
Do you have a link to the exact SW version you used? Or is it that same version in your link that was uploaded 11th May, 2012. Thanks again.

This instruction....
- Read EEprom (Encrypted) - Save file as a backup in case something goes wrong
is solely there as a safety valve in case something goes wrong. It's otherwise not needed at all. I presume there's a capability to write the EEprom should it be needed, but I didn't have any such need. Admittedly I did freak out a bit when I got the error, but I just re-executed the newmode command and it worked as it should on the second try. And yes, I realize that makes no sense, but even in one of the Youtube videos I watched that happened.

If you want, send me a PM with your e-mail and I'll send you the software. But yes, it was an older upload. Perhaps that's just the last one that was built. Regardless, it worked, so I wouldn't go with a different version unless there was a definitive reason to.

[blitz2190]

I used to be a software engineer with a focus on encryption, trust me they screwed up. To be fair though 99.9% of systems made companies that do not focus on security screw up their designs as well. With a better design it would be possible to fully lock it down, I can think of a few off they top of my head that could only be defeated with a full swap-out of the engine block, instrument cluster and frame/chassis (which at that point is a new car so why bother). It would add ~$250 in cost, so that's probably the reason.

I still am a software engineer, and trust me when I say that any security made by man, can be broken by man, there is no 100% secure, there is no such thing. And there is no instance in which you could ever code something to require swapping the engine block. its a mechanical device it can be driven regardless of the attached ecu as long as its tuned right. And no you could not code it to the chassis, as what ever is responsible for this can be emulated. Again there is no 100% secure, unless you designed it, only you used it, and never connected it to an outside input, it can be hacked, period.

[imnuts]

You have to realize that the IMMO3 system was probably developed in the mid-to-late 1990s since it came in cars from the early 2000s. By today's standards, yes, it's quite poor. By standards of that day, most cars didn't even have an immobilizer system.

The systems have continued to get more complex, and this is the last generation you can easily get the pin to program things yourself. The B7 generation is still possible, but much harder and the tools more costly. In any case, is someone wants your car, they're stealing it, regardless of what safeguards are in place.

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[blitz2190]

You have to realize that the IMMO3 system was probably developed in the mid-to-late 1990s since it came in cars from the early 2000s. By today's standards, yes, it's quite poor. By standards of that day, most cars didn't even have an immobilizer system.

The systems have continued to get more complex, and this is the last generation you can easily get the pin to program things yourself. The B7 generation is still possible, but much harder and the tools more costly. In any case, is someone wants your car, they're stealing it, regardless of what safeguards are in place.

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exactly, which is why I said have insurance its the only way to be 100% safe.

[twfry]

I still am a software engineer, and trust me when I say that any security made by man, can be broken by man, there is no 100% secure, there is no such thing. And there is no instance in which you could ever code something to require swapping the engine block. its a mechanical device it can be driven regardless of the attached ecu as long as its tuned right. And no you could not code it to the chassis, as what ever is responsible for this can be emulated. Again there is no 100% secure, unless you designed it, only you used it, and never connected it to an outside input, it can be hacked, period.

While I agree most designs made (especially the more complex ones) are breakable or able to be worked around, it is possible to make things practically unbreakable.

For example consider the following. Let's say you embedded into the engine block a module that physically disables the engine unless it receives valid signed certificates from the ECU, instrument cluster, key, immox module, and various embedded locations in the frame. Only Audi has the keys to create new valid signed certificates and the module is not accessible or able to be modified unless you pull the engine and drill it out of the block. The signed certificates also verify the contents of the ECU and key RFID tags as well. I get this does not exist today, it could be made for reasonable cost.

At that point the engine would be married to the car, you could not change the ECU SW or keys without a having Audi generate a new valid certificate for that component.

Is it exploitable, sure, but any exploit is either quite difficult or more effort than its worth.

1) For the engine, you could pull the engine and drill out the module, but that is not easy and frankly putting the car on a truck and towing it off would be done before that.
2) For the ECU, you could capture the valid certificate sent for the original SW, then change the SW but hack it to respond with the original cert. That's doable, but more effort
3) For the keys, you would have to first capture the cert of a valid start, and then send that at a later point. This would require a thief to first embed a network tracer of some sort, wait for the owner to start the car, then later analyze the trace and hack the car to start with it.
4) You could break into Audi and steal the signing keys, there are ways to rotate these and make it hard to do that.

Is such a design 100% secure, no. But no one would ever bother breaking this, they would just put the car on a truck and tow it off for parts.

[shurur9]

I just retrieved my SKC/PIn with with the VAG-key login tool and verified it is correct with VCDS eng address 01 login.
I'm gonna see whether i can get my two keys programmed with it next.
one works now and the other used to until i goofed up the queue in 2007...

UPDATE:
VAG-key login tool key-learning failed for my car, but keep in mind that i have a 2002 with the older ccm.
2002-2003- had different ccm (8E0 959 433T) than the other 2003+ B6 models (8E0 959 433BB); so this tool ,may not have an algorithm around that exception.

tool has been shown to work on 2004 on youtube.
I got my SKC and have VCDS...

Good luck..I will trouble this thread no more..

[Nollywood]

An interesting thread, and very educative too.

But I can’t help feeling that a request such as this is best done via PM. You’re talking about the security of your car, after all.

[EuroxS4]

An interesting thread, and very educative too.

But I can’t help feeling that a request such as this is best done via PM. You’re talking about the security of your car, after all.

Yes but let’s not forget this is a older car and the immobilizer on these cars can be disabled via obd plug in abut 30 seconds.so it’s not really that secure.


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[Nollywood]

Yes but let’s not forget this is a older car and the immobilizer on these cars can be disabled via obd plug in abut 30 seconds.so it’s not really that secure.

Again, too much information on a public board. I certainly never knew about this, and I’m pretty sure there are others out there who weren’t aware either.

Now, they’re very aware.