FrankenTurbo Statement on Our Published Compressor Maps

[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

I have a statement to make about our compressor map and the larger questions of our marketing communications.

The point of contention is pretty clear cut: Is our F23 compressor map a fake or isn't it? My response up until now has been to simply say the map is accurate, and we have documentation to verify that. But the ongoing questions about the map's origins uncover a problem. The testing we did which resulted in that map was not the same type of testing used to create the comparative maps also listed on our site. And so while our test data were accurate and truthful, it was a mistake to publish that map in the context of others which were tested using different methods. How the map was generated, whether in Photoshop or something else isn't the issue. I also now see that stubbornly standing by the accuracy of our test results isn't addressing this. It is that the research methods we used do not meet the standard for a publishable compressor map.

I acknowledge that our compressor map needs to be withdrawn. For people to have faith in my products, they should rightly expect information from us that's clear-cut and unequivocal. So going forward we will not publish this or any other compressor map, and will instead restrict ourselves to the data and test results we've collected over the F23's years of service.

I apologize for the controversy this has caused. I especially hate knowing that my mistake has shaken the tremendous support given me by the community in this forum and elsewhere. If anyone would like to have more information/explanation, I will do my best to deliver it.

Thanks

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo

[aluthman]

TL;DR The map is bogus.

[mec]

How the map was generated, whether in Photoshop or something else isn't the issue. I also now see that stubbornly standing by the accuracy of our test results isn't addressing this. It is that the research methods we used do not meet the standard for a publishable compressor map.
Thanks

Doug Harper
FrankenTurbo

Doug,

This has been the issue from day 1, How that map was generated, either truthfully using one of many companies that can produce compressor charts, or Falsely by using a photo editing software has been the basis for many claims.

I see you are trying to apologize, and make things right, but don't slap us in the face one more time as you walk away. Telling us that the compressor map didn't matter is just another kick in the nuts, in what otherwise would have been a nice apology.

Either way, thank you for finally coming clean about the research.

Martin

[PreciseD]

Bump :)

[yxri]

Bump :)

This has been hidden for over 2 years lol.

[PreciseD]

This has been hidden for over 2 years lol.

Yeah I know.. But why? He faked a map and called it his own... Gave a half-assed apology (if you can even call it that) and people still buy his cheap re-branded Chinese turbos?

[yxri]

Yeah I know.. But why? He faked a map and called it his own... Gave a half-assed apology (if you can even call it that) and people still by his cheap re-branded Chinese turbos?

buy*

[vce1232000]

people still by his cheap re-branded Chinese turbos?

Not people on the B7 A4 forum

[Theiceman]

wow no forgiveness in this crowd.. pitch forks and torches still waiting to be used.

The genesis of this is before my time but there must have been some serious harm done to still not forgive.

[p0isin]

Having gone through the b7 frankenturbo ordeal back when this was first released forgiveness will be very hard to get. The B7 crowd is rightfully lost to FT.

[vce1232000]

wow no forgiveness in this crowd.. pitch forks and torches still waiting to be used.

The genesis of this is before my time but there must have been some serious harm done to still not forgive.

This should be an example for any other vendors not to deceive the B7 A4 people. You also what happen to RAI. Both names are here

[PreciseD]

buy*

Oh yes the U... I hear it comes right after the F... ;)

[PreciseD]

This should be an example for any other vendors not to deceive the B7 A4 people. You also what happen to RAI. Both names are here

It should be a sticky in every page on AZ... Audizine should actually ban him for false advertisement and fraud..

[aluthman]

For those who weren't around, the initial batches of F23 turbos had basically a 100% failure rate within about 10k miles. I guess they have gotten better, but I wouldn't run one if it was given to me.

[Biged243]

I don't think they have gotten better even with the upgraded billet compressor wheel that was suppose to fix it. I think there might be 2 people that still have it. It was a total joke. Huge promises of being like a ko4 with the performance of almost a gt28 series or something like that. It was suppose to be the stepping stone before got bt. It was for the people that wanted better than the ko4 but didn't want to go bt. Suppose to retain everything else for stock kind of like the eliminator kit for the 1.8t. It was a nightmare and they never did fix it or did much of anything for the people that bought it.

[Ashtonts]

I have a F23 in my car. No issues with it. I wouldn't expect more power out of it than any other K04, but it hasn't blown up on me yet and it has around 40k on it. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it (it was on the car when I bought it) but I don't think their current product is representative of their reputation.

This is the first I heard of frankenturbo being deceitful to the community (I though they were just hated because they made crap turbos), so their reputation is very deserved on this front.

[Axis]

We have a member that went through 3 of them in a 10kkm period. Gave up and bought a GTX.

[StatusQuo]

I remember I was considering buying one. Posted on the forums that I was considering them and well. I'll say people had a lot to say. Bought a used GTX for the same price.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Audizine mobile app

[Operator]

You also what happen to RAI. Both names are here

Meh, I don't have any complaints. Ray (the owner) is a good guy, and has gone out of his way to help me a few times.

[Axis]

Meh, I don't have any complaints. Ray (the owner) is a good guy, and has gone out of his way to help me a few times.

He didnt with the rest of us hence the reputation he built himself. Glad you had a good experience though.

[FlyboyS4]

Did someone demonstrate that the turbocharger did not perform in a manner consistent with the compressor map?

[EvolutionArmory]

[blitz2190]

Did someone demonstrate that the turbocharger did not perform in a manner consistent with the compressor map?

I think it was mec that showed the compressor map as just being stretched in photoshop, not sure if that was the b7 f23 or another turbo but I do remember the videos. While it seems about 50/50 love hate with the turbos in different cars its not a bad price point. But lying to your customers just for sales is never a good thing.

Edit*
just checked it was mec and it was the f23, he has the video in his sig.

[FlyboyS4]

I think it was mec that showed the compressor map as just being stretched in photoshop, not sure if that was the b7 f23 or another turbo but I do remember the videos. While it seems about 50/50 love hate with the turbos in different cars its not a bad price point. But lying to your customers just for sales is never a good thing.

Edit*
just checked it was mec and it was the f23, he has the video in his sig.

That doesn't answer the question I posed.

[blitz2190]

yeah it did if you could draw your own conclusion, Obviously if the map is faked its not going to be representative of the actual turbo (if you come back and say it does you have lost all credibility). But you'll argue as you always do that I don't have the exact flow bench data to back it up.

[StatusQuo]

I say if you are on a budget and wanna save money but don't wanna buy a used BT kit, I'd still consider them if you do your own work and have a backup car to get to work if something happens.

Buy using your credit card. Ft offers warranty and of the worst happens, call up your credit card and issue a charge back. Worth the gamble in my opinion.

I would have bought a kit but as I said before, I had no problems buying a used BT kit.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Audizine mobile app

[vce1232000]

Meh, I don't have any complaints. Ray (the owner) is a good guy, and has gone out of his way to help me a few times.

He didnt with the rest of us hence the reputation he built himself. Glad you had a good experience though.

I think you was 1 of the rare one's .

I a few pictures of there builds. It pretty . 1 that stood out was when they a stack of washers between the motor mount and subframe to elevate the motor to clear the exhaust manifold they was using . Very sad for a so-called professional tune shop to do that type of and charge top dollar for it .

There 3 inch DP was another disaster. But Ive heard the earlier production 1s where .

Once you loose the business and your reputation is very hard to gain it back. The stigma always stays with you.

[FlyboyS4]

yeah it did if you could draw your own conclusion, Obviously if the map is faked its not going to be representative of the actual turbo (if you come back and say it does you have lost all credibility).

No, it does not prove that the map is an inaccurate representation of the compressor performance.

But you'll argue as you always do that I don't have the exact flow bench data to back it up.

A flow bench has nothing to do with the matter.

[Operator]

I think you was 1 of the rare one's .

I a few pictures of there builds. It pretty . 1 that stood out was when they a stack of washers between the motor mount and subframe to elevate the motor to clear the exhaust manifold they was using . Very sad for a so-called professional tune shop to do that type of and charge top dollar for it .

There 3 inch DP was another disaster. But Ive heard the earlier production 1s where .

Once you loose the business and your reputation is very hard to gain it back. The stigma always stays with you.

I know they've been through a couple techs. Not sure how much they have played a role in the negative feedback. I don't dispute folks are unhappy with the service they received, but I figure, just figured I'd share that it hasn't all been negative. If you look up their reviews on google, they seem to be doing fairly well. Not per-say excusing the experiences others may have had, but a Rating of 4.8 with ‎173 reviews says maybe they have turned things around?!?

[StatusQuo]

I know some GTI and B5 folks run em. Seems to be popular. There are some guys on here with FT B5 S4s putting down good numbers.

But then again, I would have a hard time buying from a company that takes advantage of their customers unfairly.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Audizine mobile app

[blitz2190]

No, it does not prove that the map is an inaccurate representation of the compressor performance.



A flow bench has nothing to do with the matter.

Just wow, I read that twice because i didnt think someone could be that incompetent then again you do like defending those that give you free stuff, what I'm sure you meant was, because its fake it has absolutly no proof the turbo flows what is says, and as stated in the video no two compressors have the exact same map thats a fact

The burden of proof is not on the consumer its on the seller obviously if its a stretched k04 map there was no work to prove it was accurate.

[FlyboyS4]

Just wow, I read that twice because i didnt think someone could be that incompetent then again you do like defending those that give you free stuff, what I'm sure you meant was, because its fake it has absolutly no proof the turbo flows what is says, and as stated in the video no two compressors have the exact same map thats a fact

The burden of proof is not on the consumer its on the seller obviously if its a stretched k04 map there was no work to prove it was accurate.

You are dancing all around a straight forward yes or no question, I'll wait to see if anyone else can answer.

[vce1232000]

I know they've been through a couple techs. Not sure how much they have played a role in the negative feedback. I don't dispute folks are unhappy with the service they received, but I figure, just figured I'd share that it hasn't all been negative. If you look up their reviews on google, they seem to be doing fairly well. Not per-say excusing the experiences others may have had, but a Rating of 4.8 with ‎173 reviews says maybe they have turned things around?!?

The one product that had pretty reviews from members was KO-R turbo. Many are still around strong from what I understand

[blitz2190]

You are dancing all around a straight forward yes or no question, I'll wait to see if anyone else can answer.

No you just dont like the answer, no its not accurate, a compressor map that is not based on the turbo it represents can not and never will accurate, to think otgerswise is idoicy. You know this is fact the problem is really that you are out to dicredit anyone that speaks against those who bribe you for your endorsement.

[vce1232000]

you are out to dicredit anyone that speaks against those who bribe you for your endorsement.

Oooh

[canadianA4B7]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...compressor-map

Ok ya so with these maps and the "stretching" that's been seen and so forth the maps could have been "adjusted" based upon some physical changes they did to the turbo. They offered a larger wastegate, good thing to have if tuned properly, but allowing a PC to configure data based upon that change wasn't the smartest plan for FT. Now essentially with the size change in waste gate it would be assumed that the data should all be moved right in the map. But it didn't seem like FT actually sat in the car and got the info. It does appear that they just took the map stretched it and prayed no one would investigate.

So regarding an upgraded k04 I have all the parts at home to do this. I've sourced billet compressor wheels, custom turbine wheel (fewer blades move more air) a Frankenstein turbo larger wastegate hot side and then likely one of the most important turbo parts an upgraded turbosmart wastegate (14 psi rated). When I can find a chra and cold side I will build this turbo and hopefully someone will test it out. What it does look like though if done correctly it should boost just the same as and k04 but will have a bit longer curve holding boost in high rpm will need a bit of taper to avoid the normal k series run out of breath. I have another hybrid option I've been stiring for some time too which wud make us a stage 1+ type of turbo. Wud be ideal for the stage 2 or wven 2+ tunes and I think I'm only $4-500 all in for the complete turbo.

So I don't condone the lies or manipulated truth, admitting there fault was a big thing as in business admitting failure can ruin things. unfortunately shit happens. And I personally do hope that though they did what they did I hope they and their families were not negatively affected.

[FlyboyS4]

So I don't condone the lies or manipulated truth, admitting there fault was a big thing as in business admitting failure can ruin things. unfortunately shit happens. And I personally do hope that though they did what they did I hope they and their families were not negatively affected.

The compressor maps were not handled as I would have done. Still, I cannot state they don't reflect how the turbo performs, to make that statement one either has to be lying, ignorant, or have done some measuring with the product and generated evidence.

As the first post shows three years ago Doug apologized, admitted to making a mistake, and removed the maps. We're now heading into the eighth year that FT has supplied turbo's for the VW/Audi platforms. Why somebody decided to bump this post is puzzling.

[esandes]

All this talk about a map but no map posted?

[Biged243]

How can you prove if the turbo performs to the map they had when the map was fudged? He admitted that the map was fudged so your argument of has any one prove it is irrelevant. The fact that the majority of their turbos failed really quick and people said when they were running it that it (butt dyno because I don't think a turbo lasted to get to a dyno) performed just like the ko4 with maybe a slight increase of power but they were not impressed and mostly stated that getting a ko4 for the cheap is a better option especially with the failure rate they had. What does it matter? The f23 was horrible for the b7 platform with a almost guaranteed failure rate mixed with a fudged (confirmed) compressor map. So why try to argue and back them up? Were you around and saw everything happen when this came out and the whole fiasco? No, so give up. Now the f21 for the 2.7 that they have works and does well. So they have that. For the b7 they have nothing and will not have anything because of everything that happened to this platform and how it was handled. So let this go to rest and let it be a warning for future b7 folks not to use it.

[FlyboyS4]

How can you prove if the turbo performs to the map they had when the map was fudged? He admitted that the map was fudged so your argument of has any one prove it is irrelevant.

I don't see a statement that the compressor map was 'fudged'.

If you don't know how to determine if a turbocharger compressor performance matches a compressor map then you probably won't be able to answer the question.