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  1. #1
    Senior Member Two Rings A4BGP's Avatar
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    Dirt and Street bikes, '09 A4Q
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    2.0 TFSI Timing Chain and Tensioner Study.

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    I've been posting this up in the A4B8 forum and figured some might find this of interest.



    I've said it before; these cars are an absolute charm to work on! As far as a DIY, it's fairly simple:
    Remove front bumper
    Remove rubber air dams
    Remove crash bar and head lights
    Remove crash bar supports (16mm bolts)
    Remove Intercooler
    Swing AC Condenser aside
    Drain coolant by twisting valve many turns.
    Unhook tranny oil line ( if so equipped)
    Unplug fans and remove rad.
    Unscrew lower rack carrier braces
    Remove lock carrier (rad support)
    If you don't feel comfortable getting to this point, perhaps this shouldn't be attempted.

    Next is the engine:
    Unhook turbo coolant hose and swing aside.
    Remove serpentine belt, tensioner and idler.
    Remove crank pulley and install T10368 spacer.
    Remove cam actuator.
    Remove exh cam bolt.
    Remove LH THREAD valve with T10352/1
    Set cover aside.
    Remove lower cover (try not to destroy it! It's on there solid!)
    Remove oil pump tensioner and unhook chain.
    Remove upper chain guide rails.
    Remove chain and shit yourself when intake cam slams forward!
    Remove old tenisoner and top guide.

    Assembly is reverse. A helper is recommended as is patience i order to line marks up with copper chain plates. Hand rotate engine a few time to ensure all is well.
    Note, install chain, guides and upper cam bracket HAND TIGHTENED only before releasing the cam tensioner. Tighten once chain is tensioned.

    Some needed tools:



    My engine is an 09 CAEB with 145 000 Kms (90K miles) on it. I change these components for peace of mind as they have been problematic for some of the MK6 GTI guys. The following is MY interpretation of what could be the problem with the original tensioner design. The rest is just so the curious out there can get an idea of the wear accumulated on a high mileage 2.0 unit. Disclaimer: this engine got a stage 2 at 49000km, I was told by the dealer that all this was replaced during the stage 2 repairs as was the 144J bracket that "hold" the cams and valve unit at the top front of the engine. This is involved in the 15D6 RVU campaign. These items were CLEARELY NOT REPLACED!!!!! The time stamp on the tensioner is 08 and the number on the J Bracket ends in 166G!!! The screen was ripped but no damage was persent.

    > Edit: Blaspheme removed and the following added:
    Just a clarification: when I was ranting about the the two SAs lying, I was referring to the fact that specifically asked about 2 specific items ( the 144J bracket and the tensioner). One looked down at his screen and said something like "yes, that was all done at the same time". The other looked at his screen, scrolled, clicked around and said "Oui monsieur, le tout a été completé durant le service de réusinage". ( yes Sir, everything was done during the engine rebuild". <

    Anyway, on with it:

    Tensioner rail wear was minimal although it feels brittle when compared to the new unit:


    Bolt for this unit has a lip on it, maybe 5 thou.


    Guide rail has minimal were as did bolts:


    Upper slider shoe broke taking it off, it's not bad but looks odd:


    Tensioner itself is hyraulic. It runs off oil system pressure: Edit: the new 267K unit seems to be self contained hydro and spring, more like a shock absorber and eliminating the need for oil pressure in order to function properly.


    Cyliner has some wear:


    Now, this is where thing start to go wrong in my opinion. This shows the amount of travel that can be had; under pressure isn't an issue but when shutting off the engine or starting it, low oil pressure will allow the ratchet to slam back and forth causing the dreaded startup death rattle. That in itself may be acceptable...


    But over time, may wear the retainer thin enough to break or allow the ratchet to release the tensioner and allow the chain to skip. While installing the new chain, it became VERY obvious how easily it can skip with only light tension being applied:


    And finally, the stretched out chain: ( notice how plates alternate while the new 158AA chain has plates doubled up...)


    While doing this work, I cleaned the rad, straightened fins on the charge cooler, cleaned and greased the idler and belt tensioner bearings. I also removed all types of crusted on dirt from anything that spins. The car is SO MUCH more enjoyable after this work that it makes me wonder if the stretch of the old chain had the timing off enough to affect performance that much. A greased idler does not a race car make!
    Last edited by A4BGP; 09-01-2014 at 04:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Nice thanks for the info when should you replace your chain??

  3. #3
    Senior Member Two Rings A4BGP's Avatar
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    Dirt and Street bikes, '09 A4Q
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    Well, VAG likes to think of it as a lifetime item or "non serviceable" if you will. That always means "warranty period" to me! I wouldn't worry about the guides and chains up to 100k miles let alone the balance shaft and oil pump chains. The old style tensioner, however, I wouldn't trust as a lifetime unit... especially if it's already noisy. Small parts getting hammered don't fair too well for long. I'd get that thing out of there if only for peace of mind.

    I do have one regret: I was at the front oil seal and didn't change it. It's not leaking at the moment but having seen it and how thin and dry it was, I guarantee I'll be under there again before long...

  4. #4
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Well I'm at 69k =) so still a while to go...and didn't they replace front oil seal when u had stage one and two done?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Two Rings A4BGP's Avatar
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    Yes, along with vibration damper/pulley. Which is why I didn't order a replacement... but it really did't look and/or feel fresh.

    69k shouldn't mean anything on these engines, but reading some stories on the MK6 forums will make you lose sleep. Unfortunately, it seems to be a crap shoot with those tensioners. Keep in mind, however, that there is an immense number of those 2.0 engines out there and some are bound to have issues. Just because my car had 2500hrs of driving time on it, didn't mean it was going to blow tomorrow. (Yeah, I found that in the transmission module with VCDS; total driving time!)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Oh cool I'll look at the vcds. .damm audi lol they probably didn't replace what they say they replace during stage one and two

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Three Rings DoItAllGarage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4BGP View Post

    Remove chain and shit yourself when intake cam slams forward!
    I have the crank gear (3-way gear) pulled off, but yet to remove the upper part of the timing chain around the two cam sprockets. Thanks for the heads up. Is it because of a loaded valve spring?


    I have most of those tools on order as we speak. I also went with the T40271 cam locks. This will be my first time setting the timing chain, anything I should look at for?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Two Rings A4BGP's Avatar
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    UN EFFING REAL!

    UPS just dropped off my cam holders!!!!!!

    Um, thanks? Fuck.

    I'll get to you shortly, Doitall...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Two Rings A4BGP's Avatar
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    Dirt and Street bikes, '09 A4Q
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoItAllGarage View Post
    I have the crank gear (3-way gear) pulled off, but yet to remove the upper part of the timing chain around the two cam sprockets. Thanks for the heads up. Is it because of a loaded valve spring?


    I have most of those tools on order as we speak. I also went with the T40271 cam locks. This will be my first time setting the timing chain, anything I should look at for?
    Jesus! TDC should really be set BEFORE taking anything timing related off. With the cams being in, I wouldn't rotate the crank if the cam/crank relationship is gone. With that bottom sprocket being off, you lost the relationship with the balancer shaft as well... the secondary chain. Btw, You are working on a TSFI, right?

    Ok, if I were you:

    Set TDC #1 by removing head, cams or studying cam lobes vs. piston position and rotating stuff by hand.
    Install that 3-way gear, thrust washer and crank bolt. (WATCH THE SPURS!)
    Set timing on the balance shafts using the dots on the gears.
    Use your T40271 and lock the exhaust cam only. (marks point up)
    Line the chain up around the crank and exhaust. ( match coloured plates to marks )
    Slide in the tensioning rail in and remove slack on the chain.
    Use an 11/16 (18mm) to rotate the intake cam back and mount your chain.
    Install stationary guide rail.
    Mount oil chain and tensioner.
    Remove Cam Tool if still on.
    Install upper cam carrier hand tight.
    Release chain tensioner and tighten cam carrier.

    CLEAN "and straighten" all surfaces, lightly grease the seal, add sealant to faces and close that greasy shit up.

  10. #10
    Active Member Two Rings GTRAFF's Avatar
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    I can attest to the tensioner issue as A4BGP states! I rebuilt my 2009 CAEB at 127,000 miles and found the tensioner almost completely worn out. Bearing bracket screen had fallen out but not done any damage. Had to replace the plastic guide on the bearing bracket because I broke it taking it off. Thought my chains were OK but did not measure them. Reused the other plastic guides. The new tensioner I purchased from Audi was an improved design so they must know there is a problem with the old ones.

  11. #11
    Active Member One Ring
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    So with my car hitting the 90k mark I should plan to the do the timing chain in the next 20k as safe measure?

  12. #12
    Active Member Two Rings Vinniety's Avatar
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    I have a thread started showing my frustration with this tensioner failing and ruining all my intake valves. If you are at that point and have it open or close to it CHANGE it. I also saw people asking about the chain. Change it... again if you are there its a precaution for a little money. Even timing chains stretch.

  13. #13

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Does anyone know of a full parts list to purchase if I'm planning this maintenance?
    2010 A4 2.0t quattro 6mt

  15. #15
    Senior Member Two Rings A4BGP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zokissima View Post
    Does anyone know of a full parts list to purchase if I'm planning this maintenance?
    I'm sure I posted this in some other thread...

    ~$325USD for this list: EDIT( this is for the primary chain only, not the pump or balance shafts)

    06H103483C Upper cover gasket
    06H103483D Magnet Seal
    06H103081E Strainer (just in case yours is torn)
    06H109210Q Lower cover with seal. If you can afford it, get it! You WILL destroy the original one taking it off.
    06H103085G Crank Seal (if you don't get the cover)
    WHT001760 Crank Bolt
    06K109467K Revised Chain Tensioner
    06H109469T Upper Slider
    06H109469AP Slide/Guide Rail
    06H109509Q Tensioner Slide/Guide Rail
    06K109158 Primary Chain (now 06k109158AA)
    N91130401 x2 Shoulder Bolt
    N91130301 x1 Shoulder Bolt
    N10572403 x1 Exh Cam Bolt, Stretch bolt, replace!

    06H903341D Idler (Suggested on high mileage)
    06H903137C Serpentine Belt (Suggested on high mileage)


    Also get some sealant, some G12 coolant. I got all my stuff from Genuine Audi Parts online, great service and prices.

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    deffinitely need a complete part list for this

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings TCHUN003's Avatar
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    $675 for the RSW kit that includes a lot of reusable parts

    oascom also posted this kit from europaparts for $524. It has more parts, but I don't think everything is necessary for this service right?

    I'm assuming this list from A4BGP is sufficient:
    Quote Originally Posted by A4BGP View Post
    I'm sure I posted this in some other thread...

    ~$325USD for this list: EDIT( this is for the primary chain only, not the pump or balance shafts)

    06H103483C Upper cover gasket
    06H103483D Magnet Seal
    06H103081E Strainer (just in case yours is torn)
    06H109210Q Lower cover with seal. If you can afford it, get it! You WILL destroy the original one taking it off.
    06H103085G Crank Seal (if you don't get the cover)
    WHT001760 Crank Bolt
    06K109467K Revised Chain Tensioner
    06H109469T Upper Slider
    06H109469AP Slide/Guide Rail
    06H109509Q Tensioner Slide/Guide Rail
    06K109158 Primary Chain (now 06k109158AA)
    N91130401 x2 Shoulder Bolt
    N91130301 x1 Shoulder Bolt
    N10572403 x1 Exh Cam Bolt, Stretch bolt, replace!

    06H903341D Idler (Suggested on high mileage)
    06H903137C Serpentine Belt (Suggested on high mileage)


    Also get some sealant, some G12 coolant. I got all my stuff from Genuine Audi Parts online, great service and prices.
    -Thomas
    Current: /S3
    Previous: B6 A4/B8A4 Avant

  18. #18
    Senior Member Two Rings nerv81's Avatar
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    Is this more of a concern for the B8 or has anyone with a B8.5 seen issues too? When did they start using the update parts?
    B8 S4 / APR Stage 2 single pulley / Short shifter / ROC Auto Intake / F&R sway bars

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings
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    I really wish I would of seen this thread before declining to replace these parts while my car was in for stage 2 pistons.... :(

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCHUN003 View Post
    $675 for the RSW kit that includes a lot of reusable parts

    oascom also posted this kit from europaparts for $524. It has more parts, but I don't think everything is necessary for this service right?

    I'm assuming this list from A4BGP is sufficient:
    The Europaparts, RSW and A4BGP lists don't seem to completely line-up. Do we know what is actually required for a proper comprehensive service without having to fuss (or worry) about re-using parts that may get damaged?
    My other home is an AIRSTREAM.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Three Rings yakev724's Avatar
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    EDIT: Had my tech replace the tensioner + chain on my 11 Q5 during its piston + ring replacement. Paid only for parts (~$80 for tensioner, $165 for chain).

    He said the crank seal was replaced as part of the Pt. I oil consumption test, and that he'd be sure to inspect the guides while he's performing the service.
    Last edited by yakev724; 09-14-2015 at 03:13 PM.

  22. #22
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Does anyone know what model year/time period the new style tensioner was introduced into production vehicles?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSEADUB View Post
    Does anyone know what model year/time period the new style tensioner was introduced into production vehicles?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Check the engine build-date (not the car assembly date on the driver door jamb): Engine date is printed on the upper right side of the white decal that is on the top cam chain cover (top of engine, black plastic, near the dipstick, decal faces the front of vehicle) The date is in Euro format : "DD:MM:YY". I believe engines built after about Sept 2012 have the improved chain tensioner design. If this tensioner fails, it causes catastrophic engine damage ($4K to $6K repair).

  24. #24
    Registered Member One Ring
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    2.0 TSI tensioner class action lawsuit

    I found this on the internet. This guy was also involved in the VW 1.8 engine oil sludge class action.

    https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wordpress.com

  25. #25
    Active Member One Ring Ishikawa's Avatar
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    Has anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area had this work done? I would appreciate the name of the shop who did it, along with an evaluation of the shop. In late 2014 I had stage II pistons and rings done at my dealer, Stevens Creek Audi. For that particular job they were great! But when I recently asked them about timing chain tensioners for my 2011 A4, they looked at me like it was a strange question. I'm over 90K miles and I need to get this issue taken care of.

  26. #26
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Hello to everyone. I’m new to this forum and to Audi.

    Should I change just the top left tensioner, or both tensioners and the chains?

    I just purchased a well-kept 2009 A3 2.0T with 100,000 miles. I decided to preventively replace the upper left tensioner. One of the local places told me that since I am at it, I should go ahead and change both tensioner and the chain-s. The price they quoted me is just a little more then replacing just the faulty top left one.

    Has anyone done this service in the Salt Lake City area? if so where?

    Any comments are appreciated.

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Is this DIY simpler if I just want to replace the tensioner, and not the chains? I can remove the whole front end of the car, but I've never worked on timing before so I am nervous to really take it all apart. I'd just like to swap out the tensioner to the new style.

    How can I hold the sprockets/timing/chain when I remove the tensioner? Is it one of the special tools I need to buy?

    Just bolt in the new tensioner and it's done? Or do I need to 'set' the tension somehow?

    Appreciate any help!

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by A4x View Post
    Is this DIY simpler if I just want to replace the tensioner, and not the chains? I can remove the whole front end of the car, but I've never worked on timing before so I am nervous to really take it all apart. I'd just like to swap out the tensioner to the new style.

    How can I hold the sprockets/timing/chain when I remove the tensioner? Is it one of the special tools I need to buy?

    Just bolt in the new tensioner and it's done? Or do I need to 'set' the tension somehow?

    Appreciate any help!
    Also interested in knowing more about this

  29. #29
    Senior Member Two Rings zinthis13's Avatar
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    Make sure to service your Timing Chain & Tensioner ASAP! I just blew my engine.

    Mods: Should move this to a more viewed area, seems to be a very serious issue and should be addressed ASAP!
    2010 A4 Premium

    Niche Vincenza 20x10 | Bilestein B16 (PSS10) | Eibach F+R | Sprint Booster | S4 Grille | StopTech ST-40 BBK |

  30. #30
    Junior Member Two Rings
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    Are there any warning signs before the tensioner and engine go kaboom? I'm at 65KM and would like to know how long I have.

  31. #31
    Senior Member Two Rings zinthis13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrdzac View Post
    Are there any warning signs before the tensioner and engine go kaboom? I'm at 65KM and would like to know how long I have.
    mine went at 150 KM
    2010 A4 Premium

    Niche Vincenza 20x10 | Bilestein B16 (PSS10) | Eibach F+R | Sprint Booster | S4 Grille | StopTech ST-40 BBK |

  32. #32
    Active Member One Ring Quatty's Avatar
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    Mine just went at 143k. Was sitting parked at an idle. Then suddenly motor stops. Go to crank and all I hear is rattling from the timing chain cover. Been stage 2 for about 6 months. Gonna tear it down tomorrow and see what's up, but im about 99.999999% sure it's gonna be that tensioner failing. I'm ordering the tools listed in this thread. Everyone's telling me I gotta buy the $500 kit, but it seems like u can get by with the cam locks, spacers for the crank pulley, and T10352/1 for the cam?? I've seen enough youtube and had my front end part enough that i'm confident I can tear down, but does anyone got any updated pics on the process of re-timing the engine. Photobucket is blocking them. I'll have the head off to replace valves so finding TDC should be easy. 1st time time doing this to an audi, but never too late to learn right?
    Audi 5000 bitch!!!

  33. #33
    Established Member Two Rings Nczcar01's Avatar
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    Couple that may help

    Just completed mine some months ago as a precaution...approx 117K. Tried posting pictures from my IPad but unsuccessful. Look at my previous post (see link below) and you will see some of pictures I posted not long after I finished . Once lined up and you rotate your engine one or more revolutions, it will take an additional 160 or so revolutions to get all timing marks lined back up with colored chain links (this is quote from Audi reference). I bought a toolkit from Amazon for about $60 that had all needed tools except the crankshaft pulley wrench.
    Link to tool kit: https://www.amazon.com/Supercrazy-En...eywords=T10368

    Send me a PM and include your email address and will forward several pictures showing new install with all marks and timing chain links in proper order.

    Edit add:http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...s-guides-A4-B8
    Last edited by Nczcar01; 11-14-2017 at 10:32 AM.
    2010 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0L 6 sp mt
    2022 Ford F-150 Platinum 3.5L
    2024 Acura MDX
    2024 Mazda CX-90
    1994 Honda ST1100

  34. #34
    Active Member One Ring Quatty's Avatar
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    Thanx man. I Pm'd ya. So 160 revolutions? Are u supposed to just crank the engine for awhile and re-check that everything is still lined up??
    Audi 5000 bitch!!!

  35. #35
    Established Member Two Rings Nczcar01's Avatar
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    I finally gave up trying to get all timing marks and colored chain links lined up after about 50 or so revolutions.....and after I found the Audi referenice to ~160 revolutions in one of their publications on the 2.0L. What I did (and suggest) to feel comfortable in installing engine timing covers and buttoning it after proper installation, is to manually turn engine over (plugs out of course) until you can get all various sprocket timing marks in proper position. Unable to recall how many times, but it was quite a few. You can do this but the colored chain links will not be in alignment, but will be consistently off the sprocket marks by “x” links. In my case the colored links were all consistently off by 5 links which gave me confidence it did not jump time and all was in good order.

    Side note—-When I installed all guides I noticed the timing chain had slipped and was off by one link at crankshaft sprocket, so double check all before you torque ‘em down.
    Last edited by Nczcar01; 11-15-2017 at 03:37 PM.
    2010 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0L 6 sp mt
    2022 Ford F-150 Platinum 3.5L
    2024 Acura MDX
    2024 Mazda CX-90
    1994 Honda ST1100

  36. #36
    Veteran Member Three Rings DoItAllGarage's Avatar
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    Here are some reference pictures on the timing chain.
    http://lovetodiyandmore.com/page8.php?category=19

    C7 S7
    B8 A4, with B8.5 engine
    Foxbody notchback 331

  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings wkhanna's Avatar
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    timing chain on The Wife's 2012 A4 just went at 72k.

    in the dealer shop now....
    full top-end, chain, guides, tensioner, et al.....
    fortunately...if you can say such a thing..... no damage to pistons or lower end bearings...
    i opened a claim with AoA.....
    they are covering some of the cost but i dont have the bill yet.....

    hope to have the car back next week.....
    Billy

    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob

    2011 A5 2.0T Old Man Project
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  38. #38
    Established Member Two Rings Nczcar01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkhanna View Post
    timing chain on The Wife's 2012 A4 just went at 72k.

    in the dealer shop now....
    full top-end, chain, guides, tensioner, et al.....
    fortunately...if you can say such a thing..... no damage to pistons or lower end bearings...
    i opened a claim with AoA.....
    they are covering some of the cost but i dont have the bill yet.....

    hope to have the car back next week.....
    Hate to hear that. Did dealer advise cause...tensioner, broken guide? From all I have read, the 2012 models have the latest improved version of TC tensioner.
    2010 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0L 6 sp mt
    2022 Ford F-150 Platinum 3.5L
    2024 Acura MDX
    2024 Mazda CX-90
    1994 Honda ST1100

  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings wkhanna's Avatar
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    May 12 2017
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    finally got cleaned so i moved
    Location
    Land of Archaic Anachronisms

    Still waiting on a detailed report......

    re the actual tensioner version: seems the car may be a late 2011 despite the title listing of 2012....?
    i will get verification of the actual rev of the tensioner asap & report back.
    Billy

    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob

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  40. #40
    Established Member Two Rings Nczcar01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 30 2017
    AZ Member #
    403986
    Location
    Conyers, GA

    Quote Originally Posted by wkhanna View Post
    Still waiting on a detailed report......

    re the actual tensioner version: seems the car may be a late 2011 despite the title listing of 2012....?
    i will get verification of the actual rev of the tensioner asap & report back.
    Went back and looked at several forum posts regarding when the “K” tensioner was introduced. One posted production date of Sept 2012.
    2010 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0L 6 sp mt
    2022 Ford F-150 Platinum 3.5L
    2024 Acura MDX
    2024 Mazda CX-90
    1994 Honda ST1100

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