Manual-tip Engine Wiring Harness Difference

[strombomb]

I’ve recently obtained an extra engine for my high mileage 2001 S4 6-speed. The extra engine is from a tiptronic S4. I’m planning to clean it up or build it outside of the car and swap it over at some point. Both my car and the extra engine are Hitachi MAF systems. My question is, can I use the wiring harness from the auto engine in my manual car (with my manual ECU)? The idea would be to have this extra engine complete with harness ready to go, to make the swap as easy as possible.

I understand that my manual engine/ECU doesn’t utilize SAI, but can I use the auto harness with the manual ECU and just leave the SAI connectors unconnected? Or does wiring/pinout need to be modified?

[travis_w]

So why wouldn't you just swap the trans and harness out of you original car? Its going to be more work to get the harness to work with it than just swap it.

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[Tumbler510]

So why wouldn't you just swap the trans and harness out of you original car? Its going to be more work to get the harness to work with it than just swap it.Audizine mobile app

/thread

[strombomb]

The harness in the car has 190k miles on it and I can tell it had been repaired in-place a few times. The extra one has less miles and looks to be in pretty good shape.

If the auto harness doesn’t need to be modified, then it would be less work to just use it. I also like the idea of taking the time to inspect it, re-sleeve, and fix any cracked wires while still having a running car.

Anybody else?

[rdcyclist]

The harness in the car has 190k miles on it and I can tell it had been repaired in-place a few times. The extra one has less miles and looks to be in pretty good shape.

If the auto harness doesn’t need to be modified, then it would be less work to just use it. I also like the idea of taking the time to inspect it, re-sleeve, and fix any cracked wires while still having a running car.

Anybody else?

Exactly. I'm interested in hearing what needs to be done to make a Tip harness work since I have three of them.

[CJ_]

I can't remember if I used the Tip harness in my manual swap, but Im pretty sure I did.. I think the only difference is the plug that goes to the SAI pump. All of the transmission electronics are controlled through a separate harness

[strombomb]

Another thing to consider... I have an m-box ecu in my car, the extra harness w/ ecu is a j-box... the pinouts would have to be the same between the two to be direct swap-able. Does anyone have documents that show the pinouts of the two ecu’s to confirm?

[m_haiser]

pinouts between B5S4 are all the same, that's why the ecu are interchangeable. hell I have a b5s4 ecu in my c5 allroad all it took was braking off a small plastic tab on the ecu connector thought now I have some boot mode reflashing to to do get the abs light to turn off.
happy hunting!

[blitz2190]

the difference is the sai pump, the auto vacumm pump (both of which can be left disconnected), and the plugs on the transmission which can be very easily swapped as the wires are still the same. just did this for the same reason, a much newer and better shape harness.

[strombomb]

Thanks for the info. Can you explain the ‘plugs on the transmission’ more? Do the tips use a different reverse or speed sensor?


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[blitz2190]

Take a look here https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...nsmission-Swap from the neutral switch park on for the harness stuff.

[rdcyclist]

Good info Blitz. Thanks.

It's funny how much we'll cough up for a manual harness when there's a bunch of good Tip harnesses available for way less. I've got three Tip harnesses that are in much better shape than the two 6MT ones I've got.

[blitz2190]

Np, if you do what I did and repin the reverse plug, and remove the Sai and vacuum pump wires from the harness you can't tell the difference.

[strombomb]

Wow this is great thanks. I thought I read somewhere that the reverse light switch plug on the 01E’s is the same as our injectors? The pic of the switch at ECS sure looks like the injector plug.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...tch/01e941521/

If so, I can pick up a junkyard injector plug, wire it in-place of pins 7/8 on the Tiptronic multifunctional switch plug (on my tip harness), and tape off the remaining tip multifunctional switch wires... and be good to go. Link below for pins 7/8 reference:

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...nsmission-Swap




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[Scotty@Advanced]

Depending on the vin there could be a few different plugs which are easily changed. The major difference is the manual harnesses have the reverse light switch circuit whereas the auto harnesses does not. This circuit can be added.

[mp3driver]

I have done a few 6MT swaps on Tip cars, and all we remove is secondary air pump. Combi valves and such. Its easy to add the reverse to the harness. PM if you need any help.

[strombomb]

Ok, I’m on-board that all I need to do is add the reverse light circuit to the auto harness.

In manual/tip swaps I get that one could tap into the f125 connector or run wires into the drivers footwell area (there was a thread that mentioned this). In this case, I think it would be best to tap into the engine harness connectors to simply make the auto harness look like a manual harness (regarding the reverse light circuit)...

So with that, does anyone know which plugs/pins the 01e reverse light switch is connected to in the manual harness? I’m referring to the plugs/pins which interface to the chassis/interior harness.

This should be easy to see in a Bentley wiring diagram (I don’t have one) or if someone has a manual harness laying around (could check conductivity).

[mp3driver]

I’ll go pick up my friends manual harness and I’ll be able to tell you! It’s just at my house at the moment. Give me a few days. If someone posts the answer in the mean time, that works too.


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[strombomb]

This sounds great, thanks.

[mp3driver]

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[CJ_]

Depending on the vin there could be a few different plugs which are easily changed. The major difference is the manual harnesses have the reverse light switch circuit whereas the auto harnesses does not. This circuit can be added.

I have done a few 6MT swaps on Tip cars, and all we remove is secondary air pump. Combi valves and such. Its easy to add the reverse to the harness. PM if you need any help.

Not to get of topic (well sort of), but how do you add the reverse circuit? Thats the only thing still missing from my swap. Just run a harness from the transmission plug and pin into the ecu harness?

[chris86vw]

Not to get of topic (well sort of), but how do you add the reverse circuit? Thats the only thing still missing from my swap. Just run a harness from the transmission plug and pin into the ecu harness?

You can cut out the geo reverse pins from the old multi function switch connector from the auto setup and extend them for the reverse lights and add the connector or you can make a harness that just plugs into the 10 pin multi function seitch harness and again run wires over to the reverse switch. I've got a couple of the connectors but blanking on the part number right now.

[mp3driver]

Not to get of topic (well sort of), but how do you add the reverse circuit? Thats the only thing still missing from my swap. Just run a harness from the transmission plug and pin into the ecu harness?

You buy a connector or if you already have one you run the wires into the ecu plenum and down to the driver foot well. There is a brown connector with a blue with red stripe. You connect there.


It’s all because I own a B5 and LOVE IT!!!

[chris86vw]

You buy a connector or if you already have one you run the wires into the ecu plenum and down to the driver foot well. There is a brown connector with a blue with red stripe. You connect there.

The wires exist at the trans. Why would you run more stuff into the car?

Wiki needs a common sense update.

[mp3driver]

I made a point to seal and hide the tIp connector and forget ever existed. I have a connector in the ecu box. Makes pulling the motor a snap with out extra connectors under the car. It’s all preference anyways. You already have a harness heading that way as it is. Takes 10 minutes to complete it. There is 2 pin the smaller harness from the tip that will trigger reverse lights though if that’s what you want to use.


It’s all because I own a B5 and LOVE IT!!!

[blitz2190]

Depending on the vin there could be a few different plugs which are easily changed. The major difference is the manual harnesses have the reverse light switch circuit whereas the auto harnesses does not. This circuit can be added.

As mentioned is does have the circuit and you do not have to add any wires, just need to chop the plug off and wire the two for reverse to the correct plug.

[strombomb]

Some additional info... the below thread would indicate we should be looking at the red/orange and/or the red connector for the pins that connect to the backup light switch. I took a pic of my red/orange connector (from the tip harness) for reference.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...nic-S4-Vehicle

IMG_1187.JPG

[Scotty@Advanced]

If you have an automatic car, you can easily access the reverse light function through the F125 switch plug. I make a harness that does this. If you have a manual car the reverse light circuit is accessed through one of the pin blocks in the ECM housing. though.

[strombomb]

@mp3driver - were you able to take a look at your manual harness for comparison?

[mp3driver]

@mp3driver - were you able to take a look at your manual harness for comparison?

@strombomb I looked at my reverse wire connections last night. I ran mine into the car to the driver foot well. One wire goes to the Blue/red stripe and the other goes to a ignition key on power source below the knee bolster. I don’t have a manual harness. I have tip car swapped to a manual. But that’s how mine works. If you wire it to a non key switches point the reverse light come on anytime it’s in reverse whether the key is on or not. I’d also recommend a fuse on the reverse wire in case of short. But it works great and is super easy to setup. If use a 2 pin harness in the ECM box it will make it easier to disconnect in the event you need to pull the motor ever in the future. Let me know if I can be of any additional information or help.


It’s all because I own a B5 and LOVE IT!!!

[mp3driver]

@strombomb I forgot about the other harness. I will have it my hands tomorrow evening. I’ll get the info you need then. Sorry for the lapse in memory. I forgot to look at it earlier.


It’s all because I own a B5 and LOVE IT!!!

[strombomb]

mp3driver - awesome thanks. I picked up some junkyard harness plugs today which I’ll harvest pins from, I’m hoping you can identify the pins that the backup light switch corresponds to and I can augment my tip harness with the backup light switch circuit.

[mp3driver]

mp3driver - awesome thanks. I picked up some junkyard harness plugs today which I’ll harvest pins from, I’m hoping you can identify the pins that the backup light switch corresponds to and I can augment my tip harness with the backup light switch circuit.

If I don’t post by 730 central time tomorrow tag me and remind me. I tend to get pulled a few different ways with others around me and I’ll forget. But I’ll try to remember. I’ll be with @bruddha so maybe he can remind me.


It’s all because I own a B5 and LOVE IT!!!

[strombomb]

Sounds good. Looking forward to figuring this one out.

[mp3driver]

@strombomb
Here it is. There are 2 colors at reverse.
Brown / red stripe
Brown

Brown/red goes to black Connector in ecu plenum pin 10 see pic.

The brown head to ground on firewall. See pic.

I hope this info helps you.




It’s all because I own a B5 and LOVE IT!!!

[strombomb]

Wow, plot thickens... in my auto harness, I also have a brown/red at pin 10 in the black connector (pic #1 below). I ohm’d this out and found that it connects to the connector seen below in pic #2. This is a 3 pin connector, only 2 are populated... with a brown/red (mentioned above) and brown (goes to ground). This three pin connector exits the loom right behind the aux water pump and appears to go rearward toward the transmission. Does anyone know what this plugs into on an auto car?

IMG_1198.jpg
IMG_1199.jpg

[mp3driver]

I may be wrong then. Let me check the harness again. I may have had the wrong connector.


It’s all because I own a B5 and LOVE IT!!!

[mp3driver]

I’m starting to wonder if the reverse switch is actually part of the main harness.


It’s all because I own a B5 and LOVE IT!!!

[strombomb]

Can you verify you checked continuity to a plug that looks like it connects to the switch linked in post #14 above?

[mp3driver]

Yes sure thing. But now that I’m seeing this I don’t think the reverse switch is in that harness! I’ll look again tomorrow but there were only 2 connectors that head that direction. One is speed sensor and one was apparently the six water pump which I thought was the reverse switch. But seeing this now I’m looking for it in a diagram.


It’s all because I own a B5 and LOVE IT!!!