17z vs stoptech BBK

[Shhmaudi]

What's the overall better BBK?

[LightningLou]

I'd say 17z because it's almost a direct bolt on and replacement parts are pretty cheap and relatively easy to find. Doubt you'd notice much of a difference in stopping power between the two, but for the price 17z is hard to beat.

[MacDaddy]

Stoptech rotors crack, and of course, brembo is brembo

[james 408]

i've cracked brembo rotors. brembo has done worse in all 3rd party brake shootouts i've seen. there were quality complaints from stoptech going back, but haven't heard much of it lately -- would talk to their vendors who you can trust for more info. stoptech parts are easy to replacements for too as I understand it.

Doesn't really help, i know. But kinda need more info to help steer: what's the intended use anyway?

example:
street use: need to look into brake bias on the 17z, but generally stock brakes are fine, maybe upgrade the pads. whichever look better to you and initial purchase price are top priority here.
roll racing: see street use
hardcore canyon/track use: need to look into brake bias on the 17z, and would need to consider other factors like caliper flex. Replacement parts increase considerably so far more weight to that category. need a refresher course on stoptech developments and how track guys are perceiving them these days (historically they were a great kit for the price, but you needed to upgrade the parts as they weren't top-end track stuff -- not sure if this has changed).

been a while since i looked hard at this choice for full track use, let me know if that's the route you're going and maybe i'll do some digging (no promises).

edit: here's a quick look: http://forums.quattroworld.com/allroad/msgs/68518.phtml

17z are floating caliper fixed rotor. Even the 4wheel bbk by brembo was strugling to match that of stoptech (it was several feet behind). For pure track use, i would suspect the stoptechs may get the edge, but again i'd need to to some digging on that front as well to get info from legitimate road course use on modern versions of the stoptechs.

ugh the info on brake bias is full of ignorance, i'll have to dig deeper. Don't see anything scientific or reliable out there on it just wild guesses (which may well be right, i just don't trust it). You need to find something like: that uses effective radius of the caliper and relative piston sizing to compute braking force, then compare that to stock and/or rear.

Edit 2: macdaddy for your post below that doesn't change that it's a fixed rotor and floating caliper design? let me know if i'm missing something, but I think you've got your wires a bit crossed. and brake bias is no joke man, don't shrug it off -- for the street it doesn't matter much but for a few feet of stopping. It's a complex issue though, further discussion TBD

[MacDaddy]

Well clearly you missed the point, with 17z's you choose the rotor (volvo, mercedes and then the brand) and stoptech not so much, meaning it boils down to the caliper, ill take a brembo caliper over a stoptech (nevermind the $150 each for brembos on rock auto)

Secondly, between the cars EBD and the tiny rear rotors brake bias will never be a danger, merley not ideal.

[HighPsi(NorCal)]

Uh, the 17z are a fixed caliper setup, not floating. If you have pistons on both sides of the rotor, it is fixed.

[Drehmoment]

There is no floating caliper....well kind of.. but there are floating rotors which can be noisy on a street car, they " click". Some manufacturers have anti click hat to rotor fasteners.

Stop tech calipers are a direct copy of Brembo calipers especially the non monoblock 2 piece which Porsche/Brembo had used since the 80's. Porsche is using Monoblock calipers since the late 90's exclusively

[XLR8 Craig]

We have always had great success with StopTech kits. Each kit is made with the OEM setup in mind and that is why they use staggered pistons in there calipers.

If anyone would like more information about these kits let me know!



Thanks,

Alex.

[Drehmoment]

I run the Stoptech 13 inch set up but if I would do it again I would use the B7RS4 caliper / rotor set up, direct bolt on ,OEM quality / engineering

[naudlee]

Stoptech is pure garbage for many reasons.
-Caliper brackets crumble if you live anywhere near salt or sand on the roads
-Rotor hats crack from heat / the elements
-Siezed / snapped bleeders are commonplace.
-You have to buy stuff from ST to replace it (aside from maybe some offbrand rotor rings, which still arent a great product)

I'm not speaking from my ass, I've had 3 sets of st40's fail and personally seen a handful of others to the same tune.

17z/18z is the way to go if you want bang for your buck & performance.

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

ugh the info on brake bias is full of ignorance, i'll have to dig deeper. Don't see anything scientific or reliable out there on it just wild guesses (which may well be right, i just don't trust it). You need to find something like: that uses effective radius of the caliper and relative piston sizing to compute braking force, then compare that to stock and/or rear.

Where can I get a higher res version of this data table?

[james 408]

Where can I get a higher res version of this data table?

not sure, there's tables floating around in very old threads that are similar, but i don't have any handy. there's also threads with the math formulas posted and calcs for specific setups.

[james 408]

Uh, the 17z are a fixed caliper setup, not floating. If you have pistons on both sides of the rotor, it is fixed.

uh, okay i was thinking the pads floated on the dowels, maybe that's not right from a definitional standpoint (although it is commonly used even by experts in a colloquial sense). In terms of it being a floating caliper, by the standard definition, i guess you're right, i'll concede.

regardless my point about fixed rotors stands. racing brakes don't use this design as you want flex in the system for heat distortion -- reducing the probability of cracked rotors.


I guess you could probably find something for a 17z setup. I've not seen one, but haven't looked that much. is this available?

[Shhmaudi]

Good info, I have 17z on my B5 now and love em, but I bought another B5 with stoptech BBK that I am gonna drive in the mean time while I build my motor. I was considering swapping but...

[james 408]

Stoptech is pure garbage for many reasons.
-Caliper brackets crumble if you live anywhere near salt or sand on the roads
-Rotor hats crack from heat / the elements
-Siezed / snapped bleeders are commonplace.
-You have to buy stuff from ST to replace it (aside from maybe some offbrand rotor rings, which still arent a great product)

I'm not speaking from my ass, I've had 3 sets of st40's fail and personally seen a handful of others to the same tune.

17z/18z is the way to go if you want bang for your buck & performance.

Yeah that mirrors what i've heard from the kits a long while back. were these recent versions of the kit? not even sure what/when has been changed.

what i do tend to disagree with is the replacement parts piece. I know a lot of guys had great success in finding upgrades. And rotor rings are readily available from many manufacturers for the stoptech kit including brembo and is readily available from racingbrake. Pads i know i've stumbled accross st40 calipers from numerous track pad manufacturers as well. Not sure what leads you to make this piece of the claim?

[zillarob]

Easily 17/18z on a street car imho.

Maybe st on a track car, but a set of fancy hats and rotors for the 17/18z prob negates any advantage the st would have there, and at a lower cost.

[jbain2]

Both Apikol and JHM have 2 piece rotors for 17z's. I think Racing brake does as well. I had the 2 pieces slotted ones from Apikol on my B5. They aren't floating rotors however.

[james 408]

non floaters isn't the biggest deal... I mean if you're not running a full track pad (or near enough) you're capped at a fraction of the temp resistance anyway. weakest link breaks the chain though when it comes to overheating the system.

[naudlee]

Yeah that mirrors what i've heard from the kits a long while back. were these recent versions of the kit? not even sure what/when has been changed.

what i do tend to disagree with is the replacement parts piece. I know a lot of guys had great success in finding upgrades. And rotor rings are readily available from many manufacturers for the stoptech kit including brembo and is readily available from racingbrake. Pads i know i've stumbled accross st40 calipers from numerous track pad manufacturers as well. Not sure what leads you to make this piece of the claim?

GO try and buy parts to service your calipers from anyone but ST or namely their asshole vendor David Zeckhausen. They are expensive, crappy quality, waste of time.
-Brembo's were OE parts, you can find off brand replacement pieces/ cheap rotors / cheap pads, you name it. Stuff thats reasonably priced & doesnt fall apart when you sneeze at it.

We call the stoptech's "Pooptechs" round these parts.

[BITRBO]

I've been running a StopTech Trophy kit for a couple years now which I'm actually pretty happy with. There is a clear difference in parts and quality vs. the standard ST40 kit. Once I finally got the pads bedded in, the car will stand on it's nose even toward the end of a hard 20 min session. Usually tire grip is my limiting factor.

That being said, I've gone back to DD'ing this bitch again so I'm considering a swap to something more OEM / street-friendly... Some rebuilt 17z's and a set of 1-piece rotors sound like the ticket.

[Cgoon009]

If I were you, I would stick to 17z or 18z for regular use. The parts are widely available and will suffice for street driving. If you are gonna go bigger or track the car seriously, then AP Racing or Alcon would be my recommendation.