Have I made 15-20 HP from an intake system? Yes.. yes I have (pretty graphs included)

[emilio]

nice, the pictures finally loaded for me. interesting internal cone filter design to retain some airstream pressure, though i'm unclear on what you did with that extra OE hose - pic or diagram?

mostly i'm interested in the dyno for comparative % change results, not necessarily hard HP/TQ (altitude alone screws with that). the results and methodology may be contested, but probably a lot less that estimated gains; stock vs. mod on the same car is still valuable. i don't have the experience to gauge wether the 0.8 number is reliable, but i assume it's well-tested given a stoichiometric fuel mix. have you ever looked at fuel rate and AFR? might help bolster the reliability of those findings.

- emilio

[gojcaj]

I really like this and appreciate the work you put into it. I will tell you that even with a dyno, people will still nitpick at every detail. Regardless of platform, the majority will claim that nobody can design an intake better than the factory. But for reasons you mentioned, they don't design the best performance intakes. Rather, they are compromised, but the easiest to service and reliable.

I come from the E46 M3 world where people thought 333hp (~270whp on a dynojet) from a 3.2L was absolutely maxed from the factory. There were so many tunes, intakes, and exhausts created that actually made less power than stock, but that did not mean there was no power to be had. For instance I had an AFe intake that definitely heat soaked at a stop. But once you got moving, it picked up a good amount of power. I dyno'd 319whp with that intake, headers, and a basic tune. With a CSL replica intake, improved air ducting, and new tune, my car put down 342 whp. There's almost always power to be had.

I bet your setup with a proper dyno tune will put down considerably more power than other setups!

I don't know if you're familiar with the Eventuri brand, but your setup sort of reminds me of this. They use a cool conical design which draws cold air from ideal locations. Smooth transitions with minimal heat soak have provided measurable gains on many platforms.

Here's an example from their B8 RS4


Anyways, keep up the good work. I'll keep an eye on this and might try to follow your steps in the spring!

[Hooblah]

Is there a particular reason why you chose the cda-style filter, as opposed to modifying the factory air box? Do you think it makes much difference compared to chucking a k&n in and routing some 3" ducting to the fog light?

[q_dubz]

Is there a particular reason why you chose the cda-style filter, as opposed to modifying the factory air box? Do you think it makes much difference compared to chucking a k&n in and routing some 3" ducting to the fog light?

You need the flow straightening! And keeping air flow as straight as possible is essential. Think about what kind of turn the air had to make in the factory box...

[DRKSDE_S4]

This is an interesting post and definitely interested in making one for mine. Although do you think the numbers would be different due to altitudes?

[Fourplay]

Why not do some logging from 2k to 6k RPM in 3rd gear? The B5 guys use it (FATS times) to test whp gains.

Run it a few times with the stock setup, swap the setups and run again on the same road in similar weather conditions. Should give you some concrete real world data to go with your measured airflow and engine load.

Just my $.02.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Why not do some logging from 2k to 6k RPM in 3rd gear? The B5 guys use it (FATS times) to test whp gains.

Run it a few times with the stock setup, swap the setups and run again on the same road in similar weather conditions. Should give you some concrete real world data to go with your measured airflow and engine load.

Just my $.02.

As I said earlier, I can't go back to the stock airbox as I needed to cut up both the bellmouth portion from inside the airbox as well as the tube that runs over the auxiliary radiator.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

nice, the pictures finally loaded for me. interesting internal cone filter design to retain some airstream pressure, though i'm unclear on what you did with that extra OE hose - pic or diagram?

mostly i'm interested in the dyno for comparative % change results, not necessarily hard HP/TQ (altitude alone screws with that). the results and methodology may be contested, but probably a lot less that estimated gains; stock vs. mod on the same car is still valuable. i don't have the experience to gauge wether the 0.8 number is reliable, but i assume it's well-tested given a stoichiometric fuel mix. have you ever looked at fuel rate and AFR? might help bolster the reliability of those findings.

- emilio

To answer your question, I'm assuming you're referring to the tube that runs over the aux cooler? Unfortunatley I don't have any pics of the finished product, but as you can see, I cut out the ribbed middle portion out (the piece on the far right) and used some steel putty to mate the two remaining ends into one piece.



From there, to join the tube into the main intake inlet, I just cut a hole in the main 3in inlet and wrapped it with some self adhering silicone tape.

Does that all make sense?

[dmanisgnarly]

This is how I solved the CAI problem. APR NACA duct straight to a large pod, enclosed in a thin stainless airbox. Pop a foam cap on the bottom for heavy rains. Noticeably quicker acceleration after JHM intake spacers. Sounds epic as well.

[Fourplay]

As I said earlier, I can't go back to the stock airbox as I needed to cut up both the bellmouth portion from inside the airbox as well as the tube that runs over the auxiliary radiator.

Ah. I have no idea how much stock B6 airboxes run, is it possible to buy one for relatively cheap? Or get someone to lend you theirs?

Seems promising for you S4 guys though. I've always thought the RS4's intake system was a bit compromised, but not sure much can be done to help it.

[jr1415us]

Ah. I have no idea how much stock B6 airboxes run, is it possible to buy one for relatively cheap? Or get someone to lend you theirs?

Seems promising for you S4 guys though. I've always thought the RS4's intake system was a bit compromised, but not sure much can be done to help it.

Air filter housing on eBay is about $120

[emilio]

From there, to join the tube into the main intake inlet, I just cut a hole in the main 3in inlet and wrapped it with some self adhering silicone tape.

Does that all make sense?

ahh yes, i think so, you attached the stock inlet.

how does it sound?

- emilio

[Terry.Reese]

still waiting for the detailed as hell walkthrough for this...

[ZimbutheMonkey]

ahh yes, i think so, you attached the stock inlet.

how does it sound?

- emilio

I re-attached the tube that runs into the bottom of the stock airbox with the flapper valve.

Sound isn't a whole lot different. However, when you lay into the throttle, the exhaust is pretty loud, so it's hard to hear the induction noise.

Also, I forgot to post the thread that served as my inspiration for this intake. Here are the results of a similar intake on a V6 Audi 3.0.
http://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-b...irbox-2359871/

On average, he saw about 10 g/sec gains through the rev band. Percent wise, it's not too far off my gains. Anyway, just wanted to post that up before I forgot.


VCDS generated dyno estimate from the thread

[GOR720]

Looks interesting, I'm willing to try it, I had a Mitsubishi in which I custom made a CAI and it gave the n/a 1.8L motor +6hp, I had the inlet right beside the fog light and had a dry filter with the hydro guard just in case, now that was a small motor so it had room to cool down in the engine bay but the 4.2 is a different story, I bet a similar setup might give 6hp or more since the engine bay on these cars are so hot and the original system is pulling in heat.

[Hooblah]

I'll be looking to do this in the near future.

I can't quite picture it when you say "That's when I got the idea to cut down the hose portion that ran above the auxiliary cooler and splice it back into the intake". Would you mind showing me a pic of what you mean?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I'll be looking to do this in the near future.

I can't quite picture it when you say "That's when I got the idea to cut down the hose portion that ran above the auxiliary cooler and splice it back into the intake". Would you mind showing me a pic of what you mean?

Yeah, sorry about that, but as I said, I was in a hurry so I didn't think to take a picture of it. However, it'll be obvious what you need to do when you run the 3 inch main hose down into the wheel well.

When the hose is in that location, you'll see how you need to cut the auxillary rad intake hose to fit into the 3 in hose.

Honestly, it's not rocket science. Trust me when I say that you'll be able to figure it out .



On another note, I'd like to thank all those who have kept an open mind about this. It's encouraging to see members here who are willing to take a chance on something new. I look forward to seeing some other member's results with this mod.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

This is how I solved the CAI problem. APR NACA duct straight to a large pod, enclosed in a thin stainless airbox. Pop a foam cap on the bottom for heavy rains. Noticeably quicker acceleration after JHM intake spacers. Sounds epic as well.

Any chance you'd be producing some of these now that you have the design figured out?

That looks absolutely awesome, well done!!! .

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I did some more looking around for dyno tested Audi CAI's and I found this http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4/threads/18214.phtml

It's a CAI for a TT-RS designed by 034 Motorsports. Apparently it's good for 16 crank horsepower and 13 ft-lbs of torque on stock turbo tunes, and over 35 crank horsepower and 24 ft-lbs with an upgraded turbocharger.




Interestingly enough, it's not even that much of a departure from the stock intake. However, the addition of more cross sectional area and the additional length made a substantial difference to the engine's power output.

Anyway, just more proof that the Audi factory airboxes are not the be all/end all in terms of performance.

[GOR720]

Im gonna try and do mine with 3"aluminum piping and ditch the plastic duct that comes with the kit, I suspect that helps a bit more since the air flows better within the pipes

[Hooblah]

Thought about using this insulated ducting to cover your intake pipe?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1917964868...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Terry.Reese]

Thought about using this insulated ducting to cover your intake pipe?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1917964868...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I saw one once with this on the pipe he used. looked good.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Im gonna try and do mine with 3"aluminum piping and ditch the plastic duct that comes with the kit, I suspect that helps a bit more since the air flows better within the pipes

While it can't hurt, I don't know that it will make a huge difference. I would suspect that the texture of the area next to the boundary layer of the airflow matters more as the diameter of the pipe decreases (assuming the same volume of fluid in both pipes).

Thought about using this insulated ducting to cover your intake pipe?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1917964868...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I think I'm just going to use the same DEI gold heat wrap that I've used along the rest of the intake. It's far more effective at rejecting radiant heat than the insulated ducting. Plus, with insulate ducting I would expect that you run the risk of locking in any heat that soaks past your thermal barriers.

[GOR720]

I'm going to post the project pictures once I do it, I ordered everything but I'm out of town, btw the DEI gold heat wrap is the best way to go in my opinion also

[Hooblah]

Use both lol.
Does the gold stuff really make that much of a difference? You'd assume that it would be a poor insulator because of how thin it is.

[GOR720]

Use both lol.
Does the gold stuff really make that much of a difference? You'd assume that it would be a poor insulator because of how thin it is.

https://youtu.be/XjFzTJOuDQE
It really works

[IslandHydro]

https://youtu.be/XjFzTJOuDQE
It really works

That 'test' looks really bogus, depending on how close the plate is held to the sensor (which isn't shown) would make all the difference in the world....

[Hooblah]

Looks like a shitty test. Doesnt show how much it will heat up, only that the rate is slower. No material specs on the website either.

[Terry.Reese]

Looks like a shitty test. Doesnt show how much it will heat up, only that the rate is slower. No material specs on the website either.

I have this on the bottom of my IM along with spacers, I can tell a huge difference on the heat, I can actually put my hand on the IM, before both valve covers and IM would burn my hand, now the IM is just mildly warm to the touch, major improvement, at least on mine that is, I got the bigger sheets though, not the thin tape like the video has.

[Hooblah]

That still doesn't prove anything. For all we know it could just be the spacers. We know the thermal conductivity of the material used for the spacers (G10 or Fr4) but there's no conclusive data on the gold wrap.

[Terry.Reese]

That still doesn't prove anything. For all we know it could just be the spacers. We know the thermal conductivity of the material used for the spacers (G10 or Fr4) but there's no conclusive data on the gold wrap.

sounds like we need a test subject now.. who is up for that?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

That still doesn't prove anything. For all we know it could just be the spacers. We know the thermal conductivity of the material used for the spacers (G10 or Fr4) but there's no conclusive data on the gold wrap.

Actually, it does seem to make a significant difference. I used the tape alone (w/o the spacers) and I noticed a dramatic drop in temperatures similar to what Terry.Reese saw (i.e. being able to put my hand on the manifold without feeling like it was going to burn off).

With that said, I have no doubt that adding spacers would provide more resistance to heat soaking in stop and go traffic or during short stops where the engine is shut off.

I find that the DEI gold tape does a great job of rejecting ambient heat. As you can all see, I ended up using that gold heat wrap along the length of the entire intake tract.

On a side note, I would almost prefer to use the tape vs the thicker matting under the manifold given how little space there is between the manifold and the valley underneath. If the insulating surface were to physically touch the valley, the heat will conduct that way. You need an air gap for the gold foil to work properly.

[Terry.Reese]

I used sickspeed socks I got from a friend on my OEM intakehose just to make it look different, Waiting for the Monkey to send his specs and such so i can implement this to mine.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I used sickspeed socks I got from a friend on my OEM intakehose just to make it look different, Waiting for the Monkey to send his specs and such so i can implement this to mine.

Sorry, which specs are you looking for?

[Terry.Reese]

all of them!!! pictures, parts, more pictures.. were you went into the fender. all the juicy bits.

[pwest15]

I'm adding this post just to give my $0.02 about heat shielding. No, I didn't end up using DEI reflect-a-gold but I do have results for another product.

I can 100% say that heat shielding the bottom of your IM yields better intake temperatures. I ran with JHM intake spacers alone for a week or two before I performed my timing service and wrapped my intake manifold in 1/8" thick Heatshield Products heat shielding. I didn't really trust the golden duct tape and I only wanted to do the job once. I collected data before and after the heat shielding on the same 2 hour driving route on days when the ambient temperature only varied by 3 degrees. Not many differences in the first hour of driving but by the 2 hour mark, there was an average variance of 13 degrees in intake temps. I was very pleased to know how well the shielding worked against heat soak.

I wrapped not only my bottom but the front and back sides as well as the throttle body and elbow.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

all of them!!! pictures, parts, more pictures.. were you went into the fender. all the juicy bits.

I posted some more pics (in post #1) of where the tube is inserted into the fender well. I also posted a pic of where the other tube (the one that runs over the aux rad) meets the main tube.

[Terry.Reese]

I'm adding this post just to give my $0.02 about heat shielding. No, I didn't end up using DEI reflect-a-gold but I do have results for another product.

I can 100% say that heat shielding the bottom of your IM yields better intake temperatures. I ran with JHM intake spacers alone for a week or two before I performed my timing service and wrapped my intake manifold in 1/8" thick Heatshield Products heat shielding. I didn't really trust the golden duct tape and I only wanted to do the job once. I collected data before and after the heat shielding on the same 2 hour driving route on days when the ambient temperature only varied by 3 degrees. Not many differences in the first hour of driving but by the 2 hour mark, there was an average variance of 13 degrees in intake temps. I was very pleased to know how well the shielding worked against heat soak.

I wrapped not only my bottom but the front and back sides as well as the throttle body and elbow.

Where did you get this wrap? And what did it cost you?

[Hooblah]

Still confused about this 5cm hose you spliced into. Assuming you have a 3" pipe, splicing a 5cm hose into it won't mean any more air can get through unless there was a restriction at the beginning?

[pwest15]

Where did you get this wrap? And what did it cost you?

I grabbed it from their Amazon store although you can probably order it from their website as well. I don't remember it breaking the bank by any means

Sent from my potato