Someone please explain why the hell....

[Fourpoint282]

...downpipes for our cars are so ridiculously expensive. Based on my research ($1,200 - $1,500 @ JHM) for downpipes is laughable. I've had my S4 for a few years now, I get it...everything is more expensive, but $1,500 for down pipes is just stupid. Hell, get cat back exhaust cost $1,000 (which is more material). I could stomach paying $600 - $700 for proper down pipes, but $1,500 is a freaking joke. Does anyone know of another manufacturer that has a more reasonable price?

I know piggies are an option, but I want to keep my cats and not have to keep changing my downpipes each time I need to renew my car tag.

Gosh....still laughing to myself about the price of JHM catted downpipes.

[bOOOOstedAudi]

Go with non-catted?

[Fourpoint282]

I dont want non-catted pipes....you fail your emissions which = no driving

Plus, my fear is the piggie pipes will make the car sound like shit. To me there is a fine line between a good sounding car and one that sounds like you're just trying to hard to get noticed on the road.

[Audibot]

SSAC?

[Fourpoint282]

F it...I have a cabrio anyways...exhaust mods dont work as well for us since we have the additional frame support underneath.

[p3u]

F it...I have a cabrio anyways...exhaust mods dont work as well for us since we have the additional frame support underneath.

Yeah, cabrio's are a lost cause from the get go. Just take it to your local scrap yard and get it over with.

[Davednconfused]

SSAC?

Any experience with SSAC fitment? I'll probably buy them if they don't fit horribly. I know B5 guys always run them.

[Mr. Corey]

If your patient a used set should pop up eventually that wont break the piggy bank.

[Slow4]

I dont want non-catted pipes....you fail your emissions which = no driving

Plus, my fear is the piggie pipes will make the car sound like shit. To me there is a fine line between a good sounding car and one that sounds like you're just trying to hard to get noticed on the road.

...you live in ATL; why do you fear emissions?

[Audibot]

Any experience with SSAC fitment? I'll probably buy them if they don't fit horribly. I know B5 guys always run them.

Nope, but was contemplating them for my allroad before I had to make it a daily

[Kambesama]

Being in California our emissions regulations suck. Everything needs to be CARB or stock and most places are super strict about it being legal.

[JimmyBones]

I dont want non-catted pipes....you fail your emissions which = no driving

Plus, my fear is the piggie pipes will make the car sound like shit. To me there is a fine line between a good sounding car and one that sounds like you're just trying to hard to get noticed on the road.

I drive around with catless headers, no SAI, and pass emissions testing in Virginia. The inspector can't see shit when they look from the bottom so I pass the visual and the JHM tune passes readiness codes with no faults.

F it...I have a cabrio anyways...exhaust mods dont work as well for us since we have the additional frame support underneath.

Just use spacers and longer bolts to push the rear cab bars down far enough for clearance. I have done it a few times.

If your patient a used set should pop up eventually that wont break the piggy bank.

This!

Also the catted downpipes are $1,350 directly from Fast Intentions.

[BCsniper]

...you live in ATL; why do you fear emissions?

It all depends on what county you live in. Several of them do require emissions testing (altho I didn't think they were that strict). I dnot know how many shops actually do a sniffer test, even then I think you could find a not so reputable one that would clear you. Luckily most of Georgia does not have any testing at all.

That being said, even with (race) cats, the car can be kinda stinky. Catless can be brutal sometimes, especially if you drive often with windows down or with kids in the car.

[q_dubz]

if you came to savannah, I'd build you some for cheap.

[jr1415us]

Catless smell is terrible. Removing the FI downpipes from my avant for that reason.

[Fourpoint282]

...you live in ATL; why do you fear emissions?

Well, maybe I don't know enough, but I assume if I fail emissions (due to piggies) the fee is either astronomical OR they tell me to fix it before I can get tag renewed. Is this incorrect?

[Fourpoint282]

I drive around with catless headers, no SAI, and pass emissions testing in Virginia. The inspector can't see shit when they look from the bottom so I pass the visual and the JHM tune passes readiness codes with no faults.



Just use spacers and longer bolts to push the rear cab bars down far enough for clearance. I have done it a few times.



This!

Also the catted downpipes are $1,350 directly from Fast Intentions.

So, to my original point...a grand plus for down pipes seems ridic to me. Though, I have only owned two liter engines prior to this so perhaps I am just used to cheaper mods.

[Fourpoint282]

If I felt like the performance gains from downpipes and catback were significant then maybe I'd fork over a couple G's for this, but I've heard you really only get about 30-40hp (if lucky) with downpipe and catback mod. Anyone feel different on the hp gains?

[roboto_1337]

I have milltek non res catback, did my own piggies with a JHM 93 tune. The car is loud when you're crushing the throttle, but it's not like a '93 CRX with an eBay exhaust. Very little drone... take out the precats. Get a tune and be happy with the gains. BTW to say your "only" getting 30-40 hp to the wheels with a bolt on is rediculous. IF you were getting those gains you should be more than pleased.

[Davednconfused]

Catless smell is terrible. Removing the FI downpipes from my avant for that reason.

That is crazy. Catless v8 is one of the most amazing smells.

[JimmyBones]

If I felt like the performance gains from downpipes and catback were significant then maybe I'd fork over a couple G's for this, but I've heard you really only get about 30-40hp (if lucky) with downpipe and catback mod. Anyone feel different on the hp gains?

I think that the gains from catless downpipes and a full 2.5 inch exhaust system are worth the money on these cars. You will also be keeping a lot of heat away from the engine so the known weakness of the engine will last longer like scored cylinders, valve stem seal leaks, etc.

[Fourpoint282]

I drive around with catless headers, no SAI, and pass emissions testing in Virginia. The inspector can't see shit when they look from the bottom so I pass the visual and the JHM tune passes readiness codes with no faults.



Just use spacers and longer bolts to push the rear cab bars down far enough for clearance. I have done it a few times.



This!

Also the catted downpipes are $1,350 directly from Fast Intentions.

I've heard about using spacers before. Does this cause any degradation or lessen the stiffness and support that the support bars provide? Seems like a simple enough solution.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yeah, cabrio's are a lost cause from the get go. Just take it to your local scrap yard and get it over with.

I have a cabrio with a set of SSAC catless downpipes and I think nothing could be farther from the truth.

Being able to put the top down and listen to the sound of the combination of my catless downpipes ->H-pipe RS4 resonated section -> Magnaflow muffler is AWESOME!!!

Just use spacers and longer bolts to push the rear cab bars down far enough for clearance.
Also the catted downpipes are $395 directly from SSAC.

I found that there was no need to push the rear bars down when I cut the mufflers off an RS4 catback and just used offset Magnaflows in their place and as I indicated, the sound is incredible

[alcatranz518]

So, to my original point...a grand plus for down pipes seems ridic to me. Though, I have only owned two liter engines prior to this so perhaps I am just used to cheaper mods.

The gains you get are definitely worth it. Granted I did headers (SSAC-and yes fitment was good aside from a very minor area such as a small notch on an engine mount), and the result was WELL worth it. Time and money. I do know by provided data and reviews that the downpipes provide similar results in freeing up power. The downpipes having the cats in them choke our motors up pretty well. You only really need the main cats downstream, which I retained. I did go with 200 cell race cats, and like was said earlier they do have a slight smell at times (if only sunroof is popped up) but unless I'm not feeling well its not unbearable. If you go with standard cats, but still eliminate the "pre-cats" in the downpipes you will still gain a decent amount of power without giving up the "fresh" smell. Your car will gain a decent tone also, but the stock catback (which I still have) will keep the sound tame while allowing you to be noticed when you open her up. If you unhook and plug the vacuum lines going to the valves at the mufflers you can have a little more sound all the time instead of only when at higher RPM. A

[Slow4]

It all depends on what county you live in. Several of them do require emissions testing (altho I didn't think they were that strict). I dnot know how many shops actually do a sniffer test, even then I think you could find a not so reputable one that would clear you. Luckily most of Georgia does not have any testing at all.

Thats what I'm hinting at. I thought GA was very loose on their emissions test.

[Mr.Wrong]

If this guy thinks DPs are expensive, I wonder what his thoughts are on the headers and timing service

[neilpaku]

I used to custom-bend exhaust pipes for a living, and there's about 1-2 hours in labor and $200 of materials in both downpipes combined. The tube bender (a decent used one) runs 3-5k but that's amortized over its life (which is tens of thousands of bends) so per-bend it's in the cents. Cost of production making them manually would be around 400, then you need to add on overheads, profit, taxes, etc. A 100% commercial markup sounds within the ballpark, given the low production volume of these pipes. If they sold 100 a week, I could see the price being more around the 600-700 mark

[Silver Streakin]

piggies (free, your time) and angled spacers on rear O2 sensors for $10. Done.

[Fourpoint282]

If this guy thinks DPs are expensive, I wonder what his thoughts are on the headers and timing service

I think those things are expensive too. haha. TC is a necessary evil if you want to keep the car healthy or keep driving it all together. My plan for TC (when I need to address that) is to consider doing headers at that time. Why not right? You've already got the engine out so take advantage of the work being done.

[emcaha]

^^If you're even considering headers then no real reason to pursue DP's. Go with Piggies as others have mentioned above and go straight to headers later on.

I got a good deal on some X-S Catted Downpipes a few months ago. Not very popular choice given the fitment/quality issues others have had in the past but so far I'm happy with mine. Took some modifying to get them all situated correctly but that's it. Definitely wasn't a simple install-and-go solution but another option if you're really set on DP's.

Had piggies myself before this and was very happy. Little drone and overall quality v8 noise matted to a catback.

[JimmyBones]

I've heard about using spacers before. Does this cause any degradation or lessen the stiffness and support that the support bars provide? Seems like a simple enough solution.

Not in my opinion. From my experience I didn't notice any difference. The cabrios have always felt loose to me. My current sedan feels like it is on rails when compared to the water bed that was my previous cabrio. I still miss riding the middle of the rear seat with four girls while the top is down though.

I have a cabrio with a set of SSAC catless downpipes and I think nothing could be farther from the truth.

Being able to put the top down and listen to the sound of the combination of my catless downpipes ->H-pipe RS4 resonated section -> Magnaflow muffler is AWESOME!!!



I found that there was no need to push the rear bars down when I cut the mufflers off an RS4 catback and just used offset Magnaflows in their place and as I indicated, the sound is incredible

I happen to agree that a cabrio B6/7 S4 and RS4 is fantastic with an aftermarket exhaust and the top down! Ultimately though that is about all a cabrio B6/7 S4 or RS4 is good for because they can not be used on a track or drag strip like a sedan or avant can be. We didn't get the RS4 avant in the USA - just wanted to mention that so that there isn't any confusion.

If you are going to quote me and edit out the portions that you don't want to respond to then please do it correctly. I did not mention the price of the SSAC catted downpipes but instead the price of the FI catted downpipes. I would appreciate that you correct your mistake.

Then with a custom setup like what you mentioned, I am not interested because it is not for a bolt on system like the FI and Magnaflow out of the box catback exhausts. That is not relevant to what I was referring to. In my experience the out of the box systems for these cars require spacers and longer bolts to get enough clearance for the rear cabrio bars.

[Mr.Wrong]

Milltek catless DPs could still be had for $650 new. Milltek HFC DPs run between $1,700-2,000. AWE HFC DPs $1,500. APR HFC DPs $1,300. So ~$1,300 for JHM/FI is a pretty damn fair, which is considered an optimal system on these things.

If you're on a budget then you've got options.
A. You could source a used JHM/FI fullback for around $1000-1400.
B. Buy Milltek catless DPs and have an exhaust shop weld in HFCs.
C. PM trexturk and see if he still makes them. His are aluminized steel though. Used to be in ~$500ish range.
D. Piggies = free
E. Cheap knockoff copycat XS autochrome aka SSAC DPs

[jettaowner718]

I'm using xs HEADERS and so far so good.....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fourpoint282]

Great commentary from everyone. For me the car is just fun for the wife and I driving around in N. ga mtn area. Def not a track car, but would love to add a little extra power. Though the motor makes @ 340 these (as we know) are heavy cars and the fact it's a Quattro only eats up more of the motors power before the wheels get any power. So would be nice to beef it up a bit. Or maybe I should just start looking at RS4's

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I'm using xs HEADERS and so far so good.....



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting, did you ever have a chance to take some datalogs from before you installed the headers? If so, I would kill to see a comparison of MAF readings before and after the header install.


Also, remember that whatever new tune you get, you'll need to change the cam phasing to optimize the engine's new volumetric efficiency. I found that with my downpipes, that you need to keep the lobes separated up to at least 3500 RPM and I found that less overlap actually worked best (counterintuative I know, but the facts are what they are).

PM me if you want more info about that. No one seems to have any info about how these engines respond to cam phasing changes after removing the cats. However, I literally have gigabytes worth of logging data and hundreds of hours spend evaluating it for anyone who wants it.

[Badger Audi]

If your patient a used set should pop up eventually that wont break the piggy bank.

X2 - this is what I've been doing and have come across a couple good deals already. Unfortunately none have worked out yet though!

[scottkollig]

That is crazy. Catless v8 is one of the most amazing smells.

I'm glad someone else defended this wonderful smell.

[tmh88]

...downpipes for our cars are so ridiculously expensive. Based on my research ($1,200 - $1,500 @ JHM) for downpipes is laughable. I've had my S4 for a few years now, I get it...everything is more expensive, but $1,500 for down pipes is just stupid. Hell, get cat back exhaust cost $1,000 (which is more material). I could stomach paying $600 - $700 for proper down pipes, but $1,500 is a freaking joke. Does anyone know of another manufacturer that has a more reasonable price?

I know piggies are an option, but I want to keep my cats and not have to keep changing my downpipes each time I need to renew my car tag.

Gosh....still laughing to myself about the price of JHM catted downpipes.

You've got to remember the B6/B7 was once a $50k+ car, and relatively low production volume. There are far fewer S4's on the road than there are Mustangs, Camaros, A4's, etc... so the aftermarket is smaller making production costs higher. Parts only go up in cost as the vehicle's price goes up. My GT-R's catback and midpipe was $4400, and that doesn't include downpipes. Go check out M3 exhaust prices. Even for the E92 you're looking at $1k+ for downpipes. Parts aren't cheap.

[R&Cs4]

Great commentary from everyone. For me the car is just fun for the wife and I driving around in N. ga mtn area. Def not a track car, but would love to add a little extra power. Though the motor makes @ 340 these (as we know) are heavy cars and the fact it's a Quattro only eats up more of the motors power before the wheels get any power. So would be nice to beef it up a bit. Or maybe I should just start looking at RS4's

Yeah don't listen to the idiots that think the Cabs aren't great cars. Yes, they are a bit heavier and you can't track them, but with some bolt ons are still in an insanely fun car. I've had mine for 7 years now and still love it. Make sure you're also upgrading the suspension, which is even more impactful on the Cabs when you're running on mountain rounds.

[caliizaktiv]

Go JHM full catless and resonated and be done with it. Catless resonated is loud enough for any sane human.