Anybody need an engine?

[gautam]

This is just a feeler. I'm rebuilding an engine with a buddy of mine who owns a shop. We pulled a 4.2 BHF engine from a B7 that was written off because it got rear ended (owner's rebuilding it and swapping in a 5.2 V10, more on that later!) the engine has just 31k miles on it. We're going to strip the engine down completely re-do the timing chain with stronger components, increase the bore size to 4.6 liters, and add a turbo to it (looking in to going the bi-turbo route but most likely going to stick with a single turbo).

Anyways, we were planning on dropping it into a B5 but we're not sure about it anymore. We may decide to sell the engine once it is complete, his shop can certify it as a 0 mileage engine since it is going to be taken apart completely and rebuilt down to the hardware. He is willing to provide a warranty with the engine of course. It should produce 600-650 bhp and we might include an ECU with a tune on it to really get the best out of the new engine.

Anybody interested? Pics will be posted shortly, we should be getting the engine to us on Tuesday and start working on it ASAP. PM me if you're interested. The engine should be an absolute beast!!

PS: This is just a feeler post, we're still not sure about selling it, just testing the waters. I'll be posting pics of the progress we make, it should be a "fun" project (read: interesting but time consuming).

[BCsniper]

....and what makes you think it will take 650hp? Do you guys plan on putting forged rods and pistons in it?

Also, just because you rebuild it doesn't mean it will be a 0 mile engine. What about the cylinder walls? Only real way I know to have completely fresh cylinders again would be to get the JHM built bottom end with the huge cylinder sleeves

[gautam]

Sorry, forgot to mention we're increasing the bore size to 4.6 liters, amending the post now. Doing a couple more things but I don't have details yet. Once we start working on the engine we'll have a better idea of what we can do with it. I'll look into the 0 mileage part but we're essentially taking it apart and refreshing everything down to the hardware.

[q_dubz]

You don't have much in the way of bore space to get to 4.6L...

BCSniper, that's not the ONLY way.

[BCsniper]

Qdubz, what are you doing with your spare block?

As Qdubz said, there's not really enough to bore out, only like 5mm clearance between cylinder walls. And with that small of a gap it's not enough space to over-bore and install sleeves. Qdubz, are you just going to add sleeves to the stock size and get custom, smaller pistons made, so that you actually decrease dosplacent, but wind up with stronger cylinders?

[q_dubz]

Nikusil

[badger.]

This is just a feeler. I'm rebuilding an engine with a buddy of mine who owns a shop. We pulled a 4.2 BHF engine from a B7 that was written off because it got rear ended (owner's rebuilding it and swapping in a 5.2 V10, more on that later!) the engine has just 31k miles on it. We're going to strip the engine down completely re-do the timing chain with stronger components

If you just stop there I might be interested :) Obviously 600+ HP would be great but I wouldn't want to pay for it - I'm just bumping 200k miles and my engine is getting tired... thinking a new low mileage heart transplant would be much cheaper than a new car!


More serious though, sounds like an interesting build. Would love to see details as it goes..

[gautam]

If you just stop there I might be interested :) Obviously 600+ HP would be great but I wouldn't want to pay for it - I'm just bumping 200k miles and my engine is getting tired... thinking a new low mileage heart transplant would be much cheaper than a new car!


More serious though, sounds like an interesting build. Would love to see details as it goes..

PM'ing you now

Once we get the engine I'll take a few pics and document the build as best I can. Going to be working nights on it because I have a full time job lol.

[allroadmark]

is the stock alusil block capable of holding 600+hp? what timing components are you thinking of using, i thought the only option was new oem components. sounds like you have deep pockets.
keep us posted.

[Lucca M]

Interesting...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gautam]

The 600+ bhp may have been an overestimate but we'll find out soon enough! Either way it's still going to be a beast of an engine!

While the timing chain kits retailers like JHM are "OEM" JHM has identified weaknesses in the timing chain components from Audi and improved on them in order to avoid timing chain failure in the future. I'm not sure if the timing chain kit Audi sells is any better than the components they put on the BHF engine when new (can somebody shed some light on this please?). I'm not sure who the timing chain kit we bought is made by because we bought it with the engine, got it from a reputable Audi enthusiast in NJ so I'm sure it's stronger than the existing components. He also gave us a belt conversion kit for free in case we want to go the timing belt route, its a strong belt that's good for 80k miles. We're working on a custom harness that would let us drop a 4.2 with a timing belt in to the engine bay of the B6/B7 but that's just a side project, let's see what happens!

For the most part I'm just helping my mechanic friend out. He's a genius with cars, he went to MIT for automotive engineering and runs a small shop in DFW, I'm just looking to learn from his work and help him out from the $$ side. No deep pockets or anything, its cheaper than you think because labor is technically free since he's doing most of the work himself (only outsourcing the part where we bore out the engine) and he's able to get parts for cheap from World PAC.

[q_dubz]

The block will hold the power. The rods and pistons not so much...but mine hasn't blown up yet soooooo yea :D

[BCsniper]

I'd like to see this belt conversion setup that is made to fit a BHF

[gautam]

The block will hold the power. The rods and pistons not so much...but mine hasn't blown up yet soooooo yea :D

What's your power output right now?

[q_dubz]

What's your power output right now?

high 400s low 500s is my guesstimate.

[gautam]

high 400s low 500s is my guesstimate.

Ah. Might have to go with forged pistons and rods then with this build...

Engine is still en route from NJ to TX, it's on a pallet and we got a turbo for it already. Pics will be posted as soon as we get it!

[q_dubz]

Ah. Might have to go with forged pistons and rods then with this build...

Engine is still en route from NJ to TX, it's on a pallet and we got a turbo for it already. Pics will be posted as soon as we get it!

Like I said it hasn't popped yet. We'll see how it handles 15psi next week after this hurricane leaves.

Anyway, you're not dropping just any forged pistons in an alusil block. There's one compatible coating out there, and one place to get it. This is why I said nikulsil above...

[gautam]

Like I said it hasn't popped yet. We'll see how it handles 15psi next week after this hurricane leaves.

Anyway, you're not dropping just any forged pistons in an alusil block. There's one compatible coating out there, and one place to get it. This is why I said nikulsil above...

This is getting more expensive by the minute :p

I'll look in to Nikasil coating if we end up going the forged pistons/rods route.

[q_dubz]

This is getting more expensive by the minute :p

I'll look in to Nikasil coating if we end up going the forged pistons/rods route.

I got what you need.

[gautam]

I got what you need.

Spoke to the shop that's going to bore out the engine, they'd included a nikasil coating in their price lol. Thanks for the offer though! Engine should be here tomorrow :)

[Kambesama]

Ah. Might have to go with forged pistons and rods then with this build...

Engine is still en route from NJ to TX, it's on a pallet and we got a turbo for it already. Pics will be posted as soon as we get it!

Out of curiosity where do you plan to mount the turbo. Will it be a remote turbo like QDubz?

[allroadmark]

The 600+ bhp may have been an overestimate but we'll find out soon enough! Either way it's still going to be a beast of an engine!

While the timing chain kits retailers like JHM are "OEM" JHM has identified weaknesses in the timing chain components from Audi and improved on them in order to avoid timing chain failure in the future. I'm not sure if the timing chain kit Audi sells is any better than the components they put on the BHF engine when new (can somebody shed some light on this please?). I'm not sure who the timing chain kit we bought is made by because we bought it with the engine, got it from a reputable Audi enthusiast in NJ so I'm sure it's stronger than the existing components. He also gave us a belt conversion kit for free in case we want to go the timing belt route, its a strong belt that's good for 80k miles. We're working on a custom harness that would let us drop a 4.2 with a timing belt in to the engine bay of the B6/B7 but that's just a side project, let's see what happens!

For the most part I'm just helping my mechanic friend out. He's a genius with cars, he went to MIT for automotive engineering and runs a small shop in DFW, I'm just looking to learn from his work and help him out from the $$ side. No deep pockets or anything, its cheaper than you think because labor is technically free since he's doing most of the work himself (only outsourcing the part where we bore out the engine) and he's able to get parts for cheap from World PAC.

jhm timing kits are oem components, audi revised them at some stage of bhf/bas production and these as far as i know are all thats available. timing belt conversion, are you sure you have the right engine? if your looking to break new ground a custom gear drive conversion would be awsome..

[q_dubz]

Out of curiosity where do you plan to mount the turbo. Will it be a remote turbo like QDubz?

It could be mounted in the engine bay. I just was way too lazy to figure out all the piping logistics then deal with pulling the engine and all that jazz.

Now if the secondary fire wall was removed....then we're talking something interesting :)

[gautam]

@Kambesama we're not sure yet, wherever we find room lol. We're hoping to get the engine and figure it out after that, we're going to start by tearing it down and getting the block over to the shop so they can bore it out and treat it with Nikasil first, and then the next item on the list is forged pistons and rods, after which we'll look at our budget and decide on which turbo to get and where to place it. We're looking at a K04 turbo and it may need a rear exit.

@allroadmark thanks for the info, I remember reading that Audi revised the timing components around the 2009 model year. JHM's website has 2 different types of timing chain kits, JHM-OEM and OEM and then JHM-OEM ones are marginally cheaper. The early D3 A8 V8 engine was a 4.2 with a timing belt so it is possible (albeit counter-intuitive) to go from a timing chain to a timing belt on the 4.2 engine. Haha a custom gear drive conversion would be awesome but we don't have the budget for that just yet :p maybe down the line? Idk, never say never!

@q_dubz yeah the piping logistics are gonna be a pain in the rear but it should be interesting. We're hoping to get done with the build 3 weeks after we receive the engine (it's still still on a pallet somewhere between NJ and TX sadly) but that may change depending on how much time we're able to devote to it. My buddy has rebuilt 3 BHF engines in the past 2 months already so he knows his way around them but mounting a turbo to this particular engine will be a first for us.

[Ejabour]

Originally you said you were going to drop it in an b5. What vehicle are you going to use when you start working on the turbo system to ensure fit?

@Kambesama we're not sure yet, wherever we find room lol. We're hoping to get the engine and figure it out after that, we're going to start by tearing it down and getting the block over to the shop so they can bore it out and treat it with Nikasil first, and then the next item on the list is forged pistons and rods, after which we'll look at our budget and decide on which turbo to get and where to place it. We're looking at a K04 turbo and it may need a rear exit.

@allroadmark thanks for the info, I remember reading that Audi revised the timing components around the 2009 model year. JHM's website has 2 different types of timing chain kits, JHM-OEM and OEM and then JHM-OEM ones are marginally cheaper. The early D3 A8 V8 engine was a 4.2 with a timing belt so it is possible (albeit counter-intuitive) to go from a timing chain to a timing belt on the 4.2 engine. Haha a custom gear drive conversion would be awesome but we don't have the budget for that just yet :p maybe down the line? Idk, never say never!

@q_dubz yeah the piping logistics are gonna be a pain in the rear but it should be interesting. We're hoping to get done with the build 3 weeks after we receive the engine (it's still still on a pallet somewhere between NJ and TX sadly) but that may change depending on how much time we're able to devote to it. My buddy has rebuilt 3 BHF engines in the past 2 months already so he knows his way around them but mounting a turbo to this particular engine will be a first for us.

[melomandn]

You're looking at a K04..?

[gautam]

Originally you said you were going to drop it in an b5. What vehicle are you going to use when you start working on the turbo system to ensure fit?

Well its increasingly looking like we're going to build the engine for a B6/B7 instead of a B5. Not sure if we're going to drop it in the car ourselves or sell the engine and let the buyer drop it into their car. Either way we're going to mount the turbo so that it can fit in the engine bay of a B6/B7.

Yeah I know the K04 is meant for the smaller VW/Audi engines so I'm open to suggestions as to what type of turbocharger to go with. Anybody have solid recommendations (q_dubz?) looking for a single turbocharger and the best bang for buck, not sure how much money we'll have left in our budget when it's time to buy a turbo.

[q_dubz]

twin k04s would be a super fast sub 2500 spooling turbo car that runs outta steam around 5500 I'd think, ...no fun if you have a motor that likes to spin to 7500 :). I'd look into something crazy like the Tial 770s that the 2.7L guys use or if you're on a budget the two s200SX series borg warners if they will fit...

There are quite a few choices out there.

Single would be easier. As a matter of fact I'd sell you my current borg warner (so I can go bigger to suit my engine goals) S300-SX-E 64.5mm. PM if interested.

[gautam]

twin k04s would be a super fast sub 2500 spooling turbo car that runs outta steam around 5500 I'd think, ...no fun if you have a motor that likes to spin to 7500 :). I'd look into something crazy like the Tial 770s that the 2.7L guys use or if you're on a budget the two s200SX series borg warners if they will fit...

There are quite a few choices out there.

Single would be easier. As a matter of fact I'd sell you my current borg warner (so I can go bigger to suit my engine goals) S300-SX-E 64.5mm. PM if interested.

Asking price? Mileage on the turbo? I'll look in to it. Would there be room in the engine bay or would I have to go remote like you did? We're still pretty far from mounting the turbo since we're still waiting on the engine lol but thank you to everyone for your feedback so far. Should be an interesting project!

[q_dubz]

PM me

[gautam]

PM me

done

[BCsniper]

The early D3 A8 V8 engine was a 4.2 with a timing belt so it is possible (albeit counter-intuitive) to go from a timing chain to a timing belt on the 4.2 engine.

....you sure?
Just because they are both 4.2 engines does not mean everything is compatible. Audi redesigned the motor to make it a chain system. AC, power steering, and timing are all run off the chain in the back instead of with pulleys and belts up front. I'd like to see the supposed conversion kit that will get rid of all the tensioners, adjusters, etc on the back of the motor and move to belts up front. And if you move everything, are you just gonna wind up with empty space behind the rear covers?

[q_dubz]

@Kambesama we're not sure yet, wherever we find room lol. We're hoping to get the engine and figure it out after that, we're going to start by tearing it down and getting the block over to the shop so they can bore it out and treat it with Nikasil first, and then the next item on the list is forged pistons and rods, after which we'll look at our budget and decide on which turbo to get and where to place it. We're looking at a K04 turbo and it may need a rear exit.

@allroadmark thanks for the info, I remember reading that Audi revised the timing components around the 2009 model year. JHM's website has 2 different types of timing chain kits, JHM-OEM and OEM and then JHM-OEM ones are marginally cheaper. The early D3 A8 V8 engine was a 4.2 with a timing belt so it is possible (albeit counter-intuitive) to go from a timing chain to a timing belt on the 4.2 engine. Haha a custom gear drive conversion would be awesome but we don't have the budget for that just yet :p maybe down the line? Idk, never say never!

@q_dubz yeah the piping logistics are gonna be a pain in the rear but it should be interesting. We're hoping to get done with the build 3 weeks after we receive the engine (it's still still on a pallet somewhere between NJ and TX sadly) but that may change depending on how much time we're able to devote to it. My buddy has rebuilt 3 BHF engines in the past 2 months already so he knows his way around them but mounting a turbo to this particular engine will be a first for us.

LOL...dude you do realize the BHF engine has chains in the REAR of the engine...and the D3 V8 has a belt in the FRONT of the engine. Aint that simple...

[gautam]

Oh shit you're right. I'll take pics once we get the engine and the belt conversion kit. The guy included it for free so I didn't do much research (he had me at "free") into it. Either way, we also bought a timing chain kit so we're probably going to stick with timing chain. At least I didn't lose any money with the timing belt kit haha!

[melomandn]

I would love to see a twin scroll EFR. Definitely not the most cost effective option, but would make great power

[BCsniper]

Oh shit you're right.

I have a feeling you may end up saying things like this a few times.

First you say you also plan on another project putting a V10 into a B6/7......how? You gonna cut out a firewall?

Next it's "slap a turbo on it" and make it fit into the B6/7 engine bay....again, good luck trying

Next it's converting the BHF to timing belt.......okay, sure, throw that in

Then you say you're gonna bore it out to 4.6. Doing so would leave you with no space between cylinders at all

And you said you were gone just throw custom pistons in there.....until Qdubz told you it wasn't so simple, but you could do a Nikasil coating. Once he said that it's ".....oh yeah, I talked to the engine guys, they were already gonna do that". Wow, how about that, what a coincidence it was never mentioned.

And with 600HP on top of it all!!!


I'm all for people pushing the platform, but it really just sounds like you are spit-balling shit here with little to no actual research or prior planning at all

[q_dubz]

I would love to see a twin scroll EFR. Definitely not the most cost effective option, but would make great power

that's why I went with the SXE...efr compressors without the other stuff lol. Tho I'd love to see how the Gamma Ti wheel changes things...

[gautam]

I have a feeling you may end up saying things like this a few times.

First you say you also plan on another project putting a V10 into a B6/7......how? You gonna cut out a firewall?

Next it's "slap a turbo on it" and make it fit into the B6/7 engine bay....again, good luck trying

Next it's converting the BHF to timing belt.......okay, sure, throw that in

Then you say you're gonna bore it out to 4.6. Doing so would leave you with no space between cylinders at all

And you said you were gone just throw custom pistons in there.....until Qdubz told you it wasn't so simple, but you could do a Nikasil coating. Once he said that it's ".....oh yeah, I talked to the engine guys, they were already gonna do that". Wow, how about that, what a coincidence it was never mentioned.

And with 600HP on top of it all!!!


I'm all for people pushing the platform, but it really just sounds like you are spit-balling shit here with little to no actual research or prior planning at all

Well hopefully I will redeem myself once the build begins :p

I'm not an expert, I'm learning as I go, my friend is the expert he does this for a living, I have a full-time job as an engineer and I'm fascinated by cars and I'm trying to learn from him.

Also, the V10 isn't our project, the person who we bought the 4.2 engine from pulled it from a B7, and is going to replace it with the 5.2 V10 engine. I'm a little skeptical myself but he said he'd send us pics soon.

[allroadmark]

timing belt conversion would require a new crankshaft due to the chain sprocket being machined into the crank just in front of the output flange at the rear of the motor. jhm only manufacture the mechanical adjuster camshaft gears that wear out, everything else is oem. boring the bas/bhf blocks to make any substantial gains in capacity is not possible due to bore spacing. the best idea you had is nikasil and forged rods and pistons but stick with standard bore sizes. these aren't your average motor and require a special approach to reconditioning, tell your friend to do some research before he dives in.

[gautam]

timing belt conversion would require a new crankshaft due to the chain sprocket being machined into the crank just in front of the output flange at the rear of the motor. jhm only manufacture the mechanical adjuster camshaft gears that wear out, everything else is oem. boring the bas/bhf blocks to make any substantial gains in capacity is not possible due to bore spacing. the best idea you had is nikasil and forged rods and pistons but stick with standard bore sizes. these aren't your average motor and require a special approach to reconditioning, tell your friend to do some research before he dives in.

Thanks for the advice! Going to have a good look at this project before beginning. The shop is pretty adamant they'll be able to bore it out but I'd trust you guys since you have experience with this particular engine. Not sure how many 4.2 BHF's they've worked on in the past lol. Definitely going to do nikasil and forged rods and pistons even if we don't bore it out.