Probable turbo replacement: advice on K03 or stepping up to K04

[r1de]

Hey all,

Long time since I posted (I guess generally no news is good news ;)

I have an '07 2.0T APR stage 1 AT6, everything else stock, ~120k miles. Been pretty happy and snappy for couple years since the stage 1 tune. Recently, I began to notice lower power - it was pretty obvious that it wasn't boosting as usual. Under some experimental WOT, I got a CEL. Local indie shop pulled code as P0299 (underboost). Notes are as:

"Found faults for boost pressure regulation (low boost), smoke tested the system and was not able to find any visible leaks, needle gauge indicated no leaks in the boost system. After closer inspection found a crack along the exhaust side of the turbo housing. [...] was able to constantly hit about 96% boost on the road test."

So the CEL was cleared with no corrective action, and I went home with an estimate for a turbo replacement. Unsurprisingly, the CEL illuminated again the next day on the first case of moderately-hard acceleration. It has remained solidly lit since, and I'm also now getting intermittent "CLOSE FUEL TANK CAP !" message in instrument cluster. In 10 years owning this car, I have never seen that message. 1 difficult start immediately following last fill up, but every start since is okay. I might suspect N80 failure, but the timing of this happening along with the CEL/low boost seems like more than coincidence.

Aside from obvious failure to boost + fault codes, car runs okay.

I am not sure if the DV was checked by the tech, but I can certainly follow up on that.

Here's where I need some advice... assuming the turbo really is the root cause/solution, then option #1 is go with the K03 replacement. I was happy before with stock K03 + APR 1. On the other hand, if we're going down the road of pulling the turbo out, I'm looking at option #2 of going with the APR S3/K04 upgrade, which would be at a minimum turbo + injectors + APR HPFP. Parts and installation will be over $5k. In addition to sticker shock, I'm also worried about: a.) problem may be something else altogether (potentially cheap & simple); b.) increased power being too much for old motor and causing collateral damage or series of unfortunate expenses; c.) leaving stock exhaust (no DP/HFC/etc) will result in lot of money for unreached potential.

Biggest worry is investing $5k+ into old motor that's blown up by MOAR POWER or will die of other causes soon(er?) anyway.

Really would like your advice on what else to possibly check for on this problem (especially the bogus fuel tank cap warning - could it be related?), and for experiences from anyone who went K04 after 100k miles.

Cheers and TIA,

[vce1232000]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...turbo-shopping
@ #20

[danbfree]

Hey all,

Long time since I posted (I guess generally no news is good news ;)

I have an '07 2.0T APR stage 1 AT6, everything else stock, ~120k miles. Been pretty happy and snappy for couple years since the stage 1 tune. Recently, I began to notice lower power - it was pretty obvious that it wasn't boosting as usual. Under some experimental WOT, I got a CEL. Local indie shop pulled code as P0299 (underboost). Notes are as:

"Found faults for boost pressure regulation (low boost), smoke tested the system and was not able to find any visible leaks, needle gauge indicated no leaks in the boost system. After closer inspection found a crack along the exhaust side of the turbo housing. [...] was able to constantly hit about 96% boost on the road test."

So the CEL was cleared with no corrective action, and I went home with an estimate for a turbo replacement. Unsurprisingly, the CEL illuminated again the next day on the first case of moderately-hard acceleration. It has remained solidly lit since, and I'm also now getting intermittent "CLOSE FUEL TANK CAP !" message in instrument cluster. In 10 years owning this car, I have never seen that message. 1 difficult start immediately following last fill up, but every start since is okay. I might suspect N80 failure, but the timing of this happening along with the CEL/low boost seems like more than coincidence.

Aside from obvious failure to boost + fault codes, car runs okay.

I am not sure if the DV was checked by the tech, but I can certainly follow up on that.

Here's where I need some advice... assuming the turbo really is the root cause/solution, then option #1 is go with the K03 replacement. I was happy before with stock K03 + APR 1. On the other hand, if we're going down the road of pulling the turbo out, I'm looking at option #2 of going with the APR S3/K04 upgrade, which would be at a minimum turbo + injectors + APR HPFP. Parts and installation will be over $5k. In addition to sticker shock, I'm also worried about: a.) problem may be something else altogether (potentially cheap & simple); b.) increased power being too much for old motor and causing collateral damage or series of unfortunate expenses; c.) leaving stock exhaust (no DP/HFC/etc) will result in lot of money for unreached potential.

Biggest worry is investing $5k+ into old motor that's blown up by MOAR POWER or will die of other causes soon(er?) anyway.

Really would like your advice on what else to possibly check for on this problem (especially the bogus fuel tank cap warning - could it be related?), and for experiences from anyone who went K04 after 100k miles.

Cheers and TIA,

Wow, quite a range of cost options, you could get a complete OEM K03 used turbo, low miles with 1 yr warranty for under $500, new for $900-1000 or the big K04 upgrade... did you upgrade the DV at any point? That will need to be done too. 120k isn't too bad if it's been well cared for, you can always do a compression test to get a feel of it's general health before you decide.

[Charles.waite]

What condition is your DV in? I ask because this: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...3/P0299/000665

They suggest its probably that the DV is toasted. Worth a shot at the very least. Before you go messing around with replacing the turbo. I would also try to double check that the wastegate is set properly and hasn't come out of adjustment.

Personally, I wouldn't touch an APR k04 upgrade. I would buy a CTS turbo K04 kit and either 1) bug JHM to let you beta test their k04 tune, or 2) buy a Revo K04 tune. You're still under APR's cost and you have a better tune and will better utilize the k04 upgrade. CTS Turbo is just up in Vancouver I believe so despite being international, they're somewhat local.

[pat_do]

What condition is your DV in? I ask because this: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...3/P0299/000665

They suggest its probably that the DV is toasted. Worth a shot at the very least. Before you go messing around with replacing the turbo. I would also try to double check that the wastegate is set properly and hasn't come out of adjustment.

Personally, I wouldn't touch an APR k04 upgrade. I would buy a CTS turbo K04 kit and either 1) bug JHM to let you beta test their k04 tune, or 2) buy a Revo K04 tune. You're still under APR's cost and you have a better tune and will better utilize the k04 upgrade. CTS Turbo is just up in Vancouver I believe so despite being international, they're somewhat local.

CTS K04 on sale - 1899 usd
Autotech HPFP - 350$ usd
S3 Injectors - 450$
OTS Tune - 700$

3400$ usd.

The APR K04 if bought from turbokits.com goes for 3999$ and includes the APR HPFP and also allows the OP to use the stock OEM catalytic converter. In my case, I want to use the stock cat and am willing to sacrifice a bit of performance.

Food for thought....I rather buy the all packaged and proven hardware instead of sourcing everything separately and dealing with uncertainties in some cases.

[Charles.waite]

^^ And you're totally entitled to that perfectly reasonable opinion.

But consider this: Most of these parts are totally common, so "piecing it together" isn't really any different than any other mod. And a geniune S3 K04 is the same as any other genuine S3 K04. APR might have a fancier cast cold side housing that adapts to the b7 better than CTS (I don't know if this is the case though, but APR tends to have slightly better finish work than most others). But Injectors? You can buy those anywhere. Pump internals? Similarly available everywhere.

With APR you're sort of locked in to APR. There generally isn't anything special with their hardware or tunes. In fact their tunes are generally quite safe (read: undertuned). Of course its also a VERY old tune. Likely from back in the day when people didn't realize that a K04 could easily shred stock rods if your tune wasn't on point. And because of that I would shy away from APR stuff, ESPECIALLY for a k04.

The last bit is APR has essentially abandoned the b7 platform. They're not making anything new for it, and havent in years. Big advances have been made in DI tuning for Audis since APR released their tune and I'm just not certain they've kept their tune up to date. IMO you're paying for for less, and being locked in to their platform as well.

[vce1232000]

Difference between the CTS S3 KO4 and the APR S3 KO4 is the machined cold side housing allowing to use the stock DV location. Where the CTS uses a relocated DV hoses. CTS uses a modified exhaust flange on the DP or HFC. Where APR mates up with the stock exhaust flange. Both utilize KO4-0064 CHRA

APR KO4 tunes is probably one of the safest tune that will not bend rods. Since it the most conservative when it comes to torque and hp outputs. The more aggressive tunes will run you rite up to the threshold of the safety zone.

Since OP already has a APR tune. The cost to grade into a APR KO4 tune is $100.00. It will save you $$$$ until you decide you want more

[Jake@JHM]

We are getting ready to release a complete k04 package with tuning and fueling $2995

[vce1232000]

Whats in the package

[Jake@JHM]

Whats in the package

everything

[RakkCity]

everything

How's this going to compare to your current Stage 3 TD05 kit as far as power output?


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[Jake@JHM]

How's this going to compare to your current Stage 3 TD05 kit as far as power output?


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

It will be rather close actually. The benefit to the BT kit is it will have a lot more head room than the k04.

[vce1232000]

How's this going to compare to your current Stage 3 TD05 kit as far as power output?

Doubt very much that is going to be in the same ball park. KO4's usually bring in the power down low and goes linear somewhat after 4000 rpm's. Stage 3 BT's usually start getting alive @ 3800 rpm to redline. Not to many KO4 can compete with even a small BT set up. Unless your doing special tuning with E85

[Jake@JHM]

Doubt very much that is going to be in the same ball park. KO4's usually bring in the power down low and goes linear somewhat after 4000 rpm's. Stage 3 BT's usually start getting alive @ 3800 rpm to redline. Not to many KO4 can compete with even a small BT set up. Unless your doing special tuning with E85

Yeah the BT will have much better top end

[RakkCity]

Yeah the BT will have much better top end

Good to know, big difference in price and the k04 was something i wanted to plan for the future when my stocker goes but didn't want to go with a 10 year old tune thanks for your continued support of the B7's.


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[vce1232000]

It will be rather close actualy. The benefit to the BT kit is it will have a lot more head room than the k04.

DAMN..........Whats the secret.... using a KO4-0064 . In the Tuning

[Jake@JHM]

Good to know, big difference in price and the k04 was something i wanted to plan for the future when my stocker goes but didn't want to go with a 10 year old tune thanks for your continued support of the B7's.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine mobile app

No problem!!

[Jake@JHM]

DAMN..........Whats the secret.... using a KO4-0064 . In the Tuning

Little bit turbo, little bit tuning

[Charles.waite]

I'm all about that td05h action, boss.

But in a pinch, a k04 will do.

[QuattriumMT6]

We are getting ready to release a complete k04 package with tuning and fueling $2995

I'm assuming with some of the other supporting mods and already having a JHM tune that price will vary?

[pat_do]

We are getting ready to release a complete k04 package with tuning and fueling $2995

I want to be able to use my stock OEM cat converter. can you make it happen?

[Jake@JHM]

I want to be able to use my stock OEM cat converter. can you make it happen?

It would bolt right up

- - - Updated - - -

I'm assuming with some of the other supporting mods and already having a JHM tune that price will vary?

yes!

[pat_do]

It would bolt right up

- - - Updated - - -



yes!

Is the hot side machined to.bolt up to the oem k03 flange?

[r1de]

This thread is moving fast now, but Jake: please keep me up to date on this. Can I email you directly? My car is a lame duck presently and I have to drop coin on it soon no matter whether it's an OEM K03 replacement, or stepping up. I like my local shop, but they only deal with APR and their K04 setup is too much $$$.

[QuattriumMT6]

Maybe off topic but you should do a video comparison similar to the one you posted before showing the differences between your k04 and TD kits.

[pat_do]

Updates from jake?

[Jake@JHM]

Is the hot side machined to.bolt up to the oem k03 flange?

Yeah it will be drop in.

This thread is moving fast now, but Jake: please keep me up to date on this. Can I email you directly? My car is a lame duck presently and I have to drop coin on it soon no matter whether it's an OEM K03 replacement, or stepping up. I like my local shop, but they only deal with APR and their K04 setup is too much $$$.

Absolutely!

Maybe off topic but you should do a video comparison similar to the one you posted before showing the differences between your k04 and TD kits.

Yea once we get everything more situated we will start doing the same stuff we did for the BT kit.

[pat_do]

Yeah it will be drop in.



Absolutely!



Yea once we get everything more situated we will start doing the same stuff we did for the BT kit.

Seriously!!! I'm gonna drop my APR tune then lol

[Jake@JHM]

Lol I would at least recommend a test pipe. We ran the k04 for a while on the stock cat for development purposes and while it works, you are leaving a lot of power on the table.

[Firefox250]

When's the projected release date?

[Jake@JHM]

When's the projected release date?

We have some production units here and ready to go but we are still finalizing software.. and we all know how that can go.

[oVeRdOsE]

Seriously!!! I'm gonna drop my APR tune then lol

1 step left : US/CAD Currency please be on our side !!!!

[vce1232000]

I'm gonna drop my APR tune then lol

Mine will be dropped next week. Gonna be ing like a man in mexico for a few days......

[pat_do]

1 step left : US/CAD Currency please be on our side !!!!

Back in 2012...we were almost at parity!!!

[pat_do]

Lol I would at least recommend a test pipe. We ran the k04 for a while on the stock cat for development purposes and while it works, you are leaving a lot of power on the table.

I prefer the quietness of the stock cat converter

I had the 034 HFC with Stage 2 HPFP....and reverted back to stock cause I hated the raspiness

I'm sure it will be much better on the high rpms where my car is slow right now

[vce1232000]

Back in 2012...we were almost at parity!!!

Guess those was the good ole dayz...... Welcome to 2016 .......lol

[pat_do]

Bump for more info on k04 kit

[vce1232000]

Getting JHM KO4 file flashed tomorrow...Let you guys know what the initial take is with it

[Firefox250]

We have some production units here and ready to go but we are still finalizing software.. and we all know how that can go.

Jake are there two different K04 tunes based on if a customer car has stronger rods installed?

[canadianA4B7]

Anyone ever spent the money on having a k03 rebuilt to a k04?? Just curious but they now offer polishing and ceramic coating the hot side when rebuilding. Wonder if that makes any difference in performance on the k04?