Broke Off Head of Pinch Bolt (Now What?)

[arjun90]

Since the diameter along the length of the pinch bolt is same throughout, can't I just use a punch and hammer to get the remaining part of the pinch bolt out now? I have very little clearance to use a deadblow ball pein hammer and punch. I tried using a smaller punch, but the force required seems to not be present. I prefer not to use a heat torch. I'm pretty sure the bolt is not severely seized. Though the head of the bolt sheered after attempting to use an electric impact wrench (I tugged, loosened and tightened). The bolt became weak and the head came off. What should I do now?

Whoever installed the pinch bolt before did so without giving proper thought.

[Audibot]

Gotta try to use some kind of punch to get that out. Really surprises me because I've NEVER had any issues with the pinch bolts. No idea what everyone here is doing to have them snap on you.

[a4kamila6]

Air chisel and center punch or you can try with a hammer. Can also get a buddy to heat the area while you are doing the hammering to help slide it out faster.

once you remove it, sand down the inside of the knuckle, shoot it with some compressed air and go crazy with anti seize.

[arjun90]

Thanks should I try to punch in from the threaded end or continue using the punch and hammer from the other end (where the head originally was)? Thanks again

Air chisel and center punch or you can try with a hammer. Can also get a buddy to heat the area while you are doing the hammering to help slide it out faster.

once you remove it, sand down the inside of the knuckle, shoot it with some compressed air and go crazy with anti seize.

[arjun90]

I feel like I'll need to remove the fender liner covering to get sufficient clearance. I hope using the punch from this angle will not damage the steering knuckle.

The diameter is the same throughout the length of the pinch bolt. If I introduce (hammering in) the threaded portion of the bolt into the steering knuckle, this may in turn physically damage the steering knuckle, right?

It's too bad I can't simply turn the steering wheel to get the wheel sticking out the right orientation to gain clearance.

Gotta try to use some kind of punch to get that out. Really surprises me because I've NEVER had any issues with the pinch bolts. No idea what everyone here is doing to have them snap on you.

[a4kamila6]

Yes keep on hammering it out the same way. You dont want those threads jammed in the knuckle

[arjun90]

Thanks, I wish I had air tools though, would have been easier from the start :D
Rust is certainly unpredictable. I do have the the bolt en-sheathed in penetrating fluid at the moment. Hopefully all will go well. Will update here as I go.

I came across this as well, http://www.passatworld.com/forums/b5...easy-pics.html

But it requires me to buy a coupler. I wonder if Home Depot stocks them.


Btw, will removing the fender liner cover give me more clearance? If not, should I try steering the wheel get it facing the right orientation towards me? As per the picture, when I ultimately knock out the pinch bolt, it may make contact with the steering knuckle as the knuckle may get in the way. I haven't measured the length difference though. Hopefully, the bolt just falls right off onto the floor.

[LakeTahoeQuattr]

I would insert a metal wedge into both openings of the upright where the control arms go in. Once you release the tension of the bolt from the upper control arms you should be able to just put another bolt in there and hammer it out easily. Or weld a nut to the end of the bold and start over.

[arjun90]

Thanks, how should I go about clearance issues? I've improvised by going with a smaller punch, and am try to achieve the same force by whacking the hammer on it harder. The hammer is a bit long as well.

I would insert a metal wedge into both openings of the upright where the control arms go in. Once you release the tension of the bolt from the upper control arms you should be able to just put another bolt in there and hammer it out easily. Or weld a nut to the end of the bold and start over.

[Kaane]

When you try to push it out, hit the balljoints from the top to release tension and it will be much easier to remove it.

[arjun90]

What size coupler is in the following picture? Just wondering that way I have options. Its pretty difficult fitting a socket on the threaded end due to the way the steering knuckle is constructed. I have to be optimistic and hope hammering will work its way.

[carmudgeon]

I went through everything you're going through and ended up renting an air compressor and air chisel. After hours of trying to pound it out by hand all it took was 10 minutes with the air compressor.

PS, my experience has been that penetrating oil doesn't work on galvanic corrosion (aluminum on steel).

[glennda5id]

Try putting the nut on the exposed end and tightening. This may be able to pull the bolt out (or at least get it moving)

[carmudgeon]

if you go the air chisel route, these are the style punches you need:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...8786_200638786

[glennda5id]

This is bentley's approach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrYAAtlsjnY

[estomax]

i broke mine off, then put two nuts on the other side and broke that off. ended up drilling through it, then breaking a drill bit, and using a diamond grinding bit to get through the rest. that was an adventure. hopefully you dont have to go that far.

[PaperToast]

i broke mine off, then put two nuts on the other side and broke that off. ended up drilling through it, then breaking a drill bit, and using a diamond grinding bit to get through the rest. that was an adventure. hopefully you dont have to go that far.

were you having a bad day?

Try putting the nut on the exposed end and tightening. This may be able to pull the bolt out (or at least get it moving)

this is prolly the safest thing to do; good idea

[arjun90]

It's a good thing I have several pinch bolts as spares which came included with the Meyle Upper Control Arms. :)

[arjun90]

In addition to changing my upper control arms and struts, I'm also changing out my outer / inner tie rods. Shouldn't I remove the tie rods first in order to move the steering knuckle and thus have better access / clearance when hammering out the pinch bolt?

[02 A6 2.7T]

In addition to changing my upper control arms and struts, I'm also changing out my outer / inner tie rods. Shouldn't I remove the tie rods first in order to move the steering knuckle and thus have better access / clearance when hammering out the pinch bolt?

Disconnecting the tie rod end will make it more difficult. The steering knuckle will turn every time you hit the bolt, absorbing the impact (even more than the rubber control arm bushings are already doing) instead of driving the bolt out.
The air chisel is the most effective method.

[arjun90]

I still went ahead and disconnected the tie rod end; it provided plenty of extra room to work with, but now I need to be careful so that the steering knuckle doesn't make contact with the spring. The tie rod bolts were also seized, I had to hacksaw my way through to get the the bolts removed.

As far as the pinch bolt goes, I tried hammering in a spare pinch bolt (perfect size, equal force distribution) to see if that would get the remaining part of the old pinch bolt out of the way. Unfortunately, its still pretty seized in there. I'm using a 2.5 lb pound engineers hammer. Instead of the PB Penetrating Fluid, I'm trying the WD40 now, and will it an hour or so to fully settle. There's a lot of white / brown residue within the pinch bolt slot. A pneumatic hammer (such as the one shown in the Bentley Publishers video) would have been a time-saver.

I'm sure I'll eventually get through, if anyone has further suggestions, feel free to comment. Thanks again.

Disconnecting the tie rod end will make it more difficult. The steering knuckle will turn every time you hit the bolt, absorbing the impact (even more than the rubber control arm bushings are already doing) instead of driving the bolt out.
The air chisel is the most effective method.

[a4kamila6]

Get a torch. Acetylene works great. Heat the knuckle up as you are hammering the bolt out.

You need extra hands for this but it will work

[bpark1210]

I would use an air chisel. It's the quickest way out and requires the least amount of swearing and sweating. I used a spare jack underneath the lower control arms to jack up the entire steering knuckle to relieve some pressure from the kncukle hanging on the UCA's.

[Robsa6]

I removed the knuckle from the car and used a swasall in between the pinch "points" to cut the bolt into sections and heated it with a regular old propane torch while I beat it out. I also used a good set of chisels as wedges in the pinch"point" openings to keep the bolt from pushing which ever side I was pounding on over further biting the bolt. Nothing but brute force, ingenuity, and heat is going to get that bolt out if it was like mine was stuck. This was after drilling the first side out and breaking 12 bits and using hardened dremel bits to get the broken bits out! I worked on the first one for 3 days and the second one for a couple hours. I also once I got the pieces moving used lots of penetrating oil and drove them back and forth going further each time till I had a good push going. Patience is your friend here and the chisels for wedges will keep you from cracking the knuckles.

Note I was putting new upper and lower control arms on the car so I just cut the old ones to get the knuckle off

[PaperToast]

(busts out a communicator), "scotty, one pinch bolt remnant to beam out"

[arjun90]

Instead of Chisels I can even lightly hammer in a couple of washers in the pinch slots too, right?

I removed the knuckle from the car and used a swasall in between the pinch "points" to cut the bolt into sections and heated it with a regular old propane torch while I beat it out. I also used a good set of chisels as wedges in the pinch"point" openings to keep the bolt from pushing which ever side I was pounding on over further biting the bolt. Nothing but brute force, ingenuity, and heat is going to get that bolt out if it was like mine was stuck. This was after drilling the first side out and breaking 12 bits and using hardened dremel bits to get the broken bits out! I worked on the first one for 3 days and the second one for a couple hours. I also once I got the pieces moving used lots of penetrating oil and drove them back and forth going further each time till I had a good push going. Patience is your friend here and the chisels for wedges will keep you from cracking the knuckles.

Note I was putting new upper and lower control arms on the car so I just cut the old ones to get the knuckle off

[Robsa6]

Yeah anything to keep from pinching the gaps together. Once the knuckle was on the ground and I could get a good swing on the hammer it started to move on the first swing and I was kicking myself for not just removing them to do it outside of the car to begin with

[arjun90]

Was actually just wondering, are my up rights made out of aluminium or steel? Audi A6 (C5) Avant, 2004 (3.0L, Quattro)

[spacecadet]

got any C clamps big enough to fit around that? looks like you could get a dowel that fits in the open hole c-clamp around on flat space other side and crank. also heat it up and melt some candle wax into it.

[02 A6 2.7T]

Was actually just wondering, are my up rights made out of aluminium or steel? Audi A6 (C5) Avant, 2004 (3.0L, Quattro)

Aluminum

[arjun90]

Thanks for the confirming, I think that's why I'm reluctant to heat the thing in the first place

If I go through the air compressor route, which air compressor would I need? I never conceived the idea that I would need an air compressor as a "must have tool"
Closest Home Improvement store to me is Home Depot.

Aluminum

[arjun90]

Time to try Seaform Creep. If that doesn't make a difference, its off to intricate Drilling and Dremel-cutting, followed by Hammer and Punch, can't use heat.

[a4kamila6]

God help you.

[carmudgeon]

Having gone through everything you're going through and not having power tools at home, I'm telling you just rent an air compressor. Drilling was a waste of time and actually made things worse. It's almost impossible to drill straight through the bolt and you'll end up with a broken bit.

This is also why I'm currently driving around on 3/4 of a new suspension. I'm doing battle with the drivers side pinch bolt on Friday. And yes, I have an air compressor reserved :)

[arjun90]

Thanks, I'm trying to figure out the logistics as far as renting an air compressor goes. I should probably just buy one from Harbor Freight and call it day, but it will take over a week to arrive. I was going to use a dremel to slice the bolt into separate pieces, followed by drilling and hammering out.

Would this air compressor do? 4.3 CFM at 90psi

[carmudgeon]

Should be perfect.

[Cgoon009]

I have good and bad news for you.

Having done this a few times on various audis, I cant tell you from experience that your best bet is to carefully drill. It is very important that you protect the knuckle, do not deform it. (If you do, you risk cracking it or reducing the effectiveness of the pinch bolt's connection. The bolt is stuck in due to galvanic corrosion and it is also most likely bent. Typically there are three approaches to removing the bolt once the head has been spun off.

1. Punch and hammer (Or air hammer), simplest method, but hard to get right without some damage to the spindle and often not enough power to break the galvanization.

2. Heat from a gas torch to help loosen the bolt and then hammer it out. Works well, but only for a second and usually the home depot gas isn't hot enough to do much good. You also risk burning the boots of the control arms (no biggie if you plan to replace them)

3. Drilling out the bolt. My least favorite method as it is time consuming and tedious. However, it my two worst cases drilling ended up being the only option that worked. You can use a good titanium drill bit from HD, but plan to kill one or two of them. (Grade 10 or 8 bolts are very hard) Kolbalt bits are very good, but often you have to order them on line and wait for them to come. Also its important to keep a constant flow of oil on the bit to keep it cool and sharp. Otherwise it will take even longer. You will have to drill out about 3/4th of the bolt before it will move with a hammer and punch. My process was drill, cool down, punch and hammer to check for movement and repeat. Also make sure you are drilling STRAIGHT and not into the sides of the knuckle.

I know its very frustrating but just keep at it. I lost about 8 hours to a C6 A6 pinch bolt, so I understand the annoyance. We tired everything and ultimately with drilling got it out. Most of my pinch bolts have never been much trouble but a few of them have put a real fight. Luck of the draw I guess. When I install the new bolts I use anti-seize and typically pull them every winter to make sure the galvanic action is kept to a minimum.

[Cgoon009]

Oh and turn the steering wheel to angle the bolt as close to perpendicular to you as possible. That will help with drilling and punching. Punch from the way your were, and cut off the end of the pinch bolt as needed to give yourself space.

[arjun90]

How are they able to achieve better clearance than me? Look at the Bentley Publishers video, the person can easily fit an air hammer to drive the bit through.

Also, is the one has to be really careful when driving in the air hammer chisel, chances are it will bottom up and damage the hole where the pinch bolt inserts to. I'll have to use an angle grinder to get somewhere around the norm of 3/8" on the shank, then only will I be able to driving the chisel through without causing damage.

Don't they make smaller bit sized air chisels with the same .401" shank to fit into the air hammer? Or is .401" inches the standard?

The good news is that I got hold of an air compressor, thus going the air compressor way.

[arjun90]

Here's an update with my situation,

I had to angle grind part of the bolt within one of the pinch bolt slots. The threaded part of the bolt successfully came off, but now the non-threaded (smooth) portion of the bolt remains. I had to drill out the center of the bolt using a 3/16" bit (a work of art by the way), and in-spite of using an air hammer afterwards, the remaining portion of the bolt would still not move. I purchased a 1/4" bit and 5/16" bit and hope to get the remaining part of the bolt out without inflicting damage to the spindle.

The heat source is coming from the drill bit, and I'm using lots of Seaform Creep as well as PB Blaster in the process.

While work continues on the Driver side, I have lubricated the passenger side in advance.

Any further suggestions and advice are welcomed. Thanks again. :)