Bought a B7 A3 3.2 FSI, tearing it down for a cleaning but have questions

[kevinofthenorth]

I work up north and our road to the mine is terrifying in the winter so I picked up a cheap quattro A4 with a 3.2. Got it cheap because the previous owner was having misfire issues and thought the motor was finished. No timing chain noise and minimal valvetrain noise but i'm fairly certain the carbon build up is horrendous and the coil packs on the drivers side are finished due to a leaking valve cover gasket. Going to strip it all down and do a good cleaning and inspection but was wondering if any 3.2 FSI owners have any input on what else I should change while i'm in there. Only have the garage for the weekend so I've got to do it in one foul swoop.

So far my game plan is :

Valve cover gaskets - new gaskets and bolts on drivers side
Remove and clean intake and intake valves
Run wiring harness for light bars
New grill and daytime running light LED swap
Replace coils and plugs all around
Change all fluids excluding transmission
Install block heater for the -50 cold starts
New filters for everything that has a filter
Would also like to have a good look underneath while its on the lift


Can any of you wonderful human beings shed some insight on anything I should have a look at while i'm already greasy. I've been lurking in the forums here for a while and have a good idea what I'll be looking for but would love to hear from experienced owners/techs !

I'm also a red seal tech for motorcycles and have been a small engine guy in the past so although I do have a pretty stellar toolbox but if you can recommend any tools that would assist me on my journey id great appreciate the heads up !

Thanks again guys ! Looking forward to bringing you along on my journey !

[b7_Andy]

Congratulations on the new car! I've done most of the stuff you've mentioned on my 3.2. Valve cover gaskets are a good idea, if the bolts aren't stripped and the rubber seals look okay you can reuse them. Also before you tear it apart do the oil cap test while the car is idling to test the PCV. Pull the oil cap off with the engine running, it should be sucking the cap a little bit but not too much to the point where the engine seems like it will die if you remove it. The PCV is much easier to change with the intake manifold removed. When doing the carbon clean I recommend pulling the fuel fuse and the battery cable and don't connect it again until everything's put back together. The fuel electronics are really finicky in these cars and I shorted a wire for my fuel pump by not being careful. Keep all the power disconnected the whole time. When you're ready to move onto the valves that are open, just pull the front support forward and turn the crankshaft by hand. When you're finished with the carbon clean you can put it all back together minus the spark plugs, coils, and fuel pump fuse and crank the engine just to make sure you don't hydro lock if some liquids got into the cylinders. When you finally start it again it will take some time to start. For the actual cleaning I recommend strapping the lower intake runners to a flat surface and fill the ports with gum cutter to let them soak like so:
Then with a flat head screw driver and some picks scrape the intake valves and suck up the scraps with a vacuum. To get the rest off you'll want to fill the intake ports with gum cutter and let it soak for a couple hours. What I found the quickest and most effective is to suck most of the fluid out and then stick an air compressor in there with a towel covering it to not get messy, and just go to town! It might get a little messy but it gets it cleaned fast!

Also while you're in there look to see if there's oil stains on top of the transmission. That would indicate a bad oil filter housing gasket. It's a typical leaking point in this car and a pain in the ass but only a $7 part

Here's some parts that might be useful...
For pulling the front support forward: https://www.ecstuning.com/ES2710836/
Oil filter housing gasket if you need it: https://www.ecstuning.com/ES280762/
Gum cutter I used: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000C...jsL&ref=plSrch
-you can do it with 3 cans but I bought 4.

Other things I would recommend but not necessary are a poly snub mount for the front support of you want smoother shifting. Also a new thermostat and cam follower if the car is higher mileage. They're much easier to replace all at once with this service. Also I'd get new upper and lower intake manifold gaskets. That's all I can think of now. Best of luck to you good sir, please ask me questions along the way! Some of this may seem confusing and I know I didn't word it perfectly but I have a lot of pictures that could help. I'm on here pretty often so don't hesitate to ask me any questions!

[kevinofthenorth]

Wow, There's so much useful information contained in that post ! Thanks so much for the heads up !!! I will be keeping you posted once I get to the point where I actually dismantle it. Again just thanks for the info ! I can already tell that's going to immensely cut down on the headache of the whole process. I'm hoping it greatly improves the power because this car is SLUGGISH. My buddies Landrover LR4 beats it in every way and that's just not right !! Cant wait to see the mess that's inside the intake HAHA

I'm sure many, many questions will follow !

[b7_Andy]

Wow, There's so much useful information contained in that post ! Thanks so much for the heads up !!! I will be keeping you posted once I get to the point where I actually dismantle it. Again just thanks for the info ! I can already tell that's going to immensely cut down on the headache of the whole process. I'm hoping it greatly improves the power because this car is SLUGGISH. My buddies Landrover LR4 beats it in every way and that's just not right !! Cant wait to see the mess that's inside the intake HAHA

I'm sure many, many questions will follow !

No worries! How many miles are on the car?

[kevinofthenorth]

She's just about to turn 200,000 KM ! It's been driven hard too so I would imagine there's been a lot of work done to it before I got it !

[b7_Andy]

She's just about to turn 200,000 KM ! It's been driven hard too so I would imagine there's been a lot of work done to it before I got it !

That's good, this was mine at 95,000 km

[kevinofthenorth]

That's good, this was mine at 95,000 km

That's not as bad as I would have thought for 95,000 km ! Was there much of an improvement in terms of throttle response after the cleaning ?

[b7_Andy]

That's not as bad as I would have thought for 95,000 km ! Was there much of an improvement in terms of throttle response after the cleaning ?

The buildup wasn't too bad and the car already felt pretty good. The biggest difference I noticed was smoothness of acceleration. If I step on it at 1,000 rpms it accelerates silky smooth all the way to 7,000. That because the worse of the buildup was on the runner flaps. Buildup on the runner flaps will cause loss of throttle smoothness and feel, build up on the valves themselves will cause loss of power. The buildup on the valves wasn't too bad so there wasn't a noticeable change in power, but these were the runner flaps:

Left is dirty, right is clean.
Before:
After:

I also noticed I difference in sound after I did the cleaning. The car sounded a lot throatier like it gained a bunch of power. A bunch of people ask me if it has an aftermarket exhaust and I'm like nah it's just stock. I guess it just created a smoother airflow and really made the car sound nice!

[S4NIK8]

I'd have to track down the part number but there are o-ring seals for the camshaft solenoids, replace all of those as they are a common failure point and symptoms mimic a valve cover leak until you look closely

[b7_Andy]

I'd have to track down the part number but there are o-ring seals for the camshaft solenoids, replace all of those as they are a common failure point and symptoms mimic a valve cover leak until you look closely

How hard is it to change the camshaft seals in a 3.2?

[kevinofthenorth]

That's what I've been told as well is the sound and off the line performance will be a lot better. I guess that's now confirmed!

I think the coils and plugs are to blame for mine running like it does and the carbon build up isn't really helping the situation at all.. From the stop light it takes quite a bit of pedal to get it to start moving and occasionally it will surprise you with a burst of unwanted power.. Also if it's raining ( which it does 5 of out the 7 days of the week ) you start it and it shakes so bad that it reminds me of a -45 cold start in the old Detroit diesel skidder we used to have at work.

I can also see through my scan tool that there's been an 02 sensor that's been out for a while and i'm hoping that the cats aren't too plugged... Boy, I'd really be sad if I had to get my buddy fab up some 3" downpipes and eliminate those cats and stock mufflers...

Curious now what plugs you run in yours ?


Again thanks for being so awesome ! You have no idea how much I appreciate it !!!

[b7_Andy]

That's what I've been told as well is the sound and off the line performance will be a lot better. I guess that's now confirmed!

I think the coils and plugs are to blame for mine running like it does and the carbon build up isn't really helping the situation at all.. From the stop light it takes quite a bit of pedal to get it to start moving and occasionally it will surprise you with a burst of unwanted power.. Also if it's raining ( which it does 5 of out the 7 days of the week ) you start it and it shakes so bad that it reminds me of a -45 cold start in the old Detroit diesel skidder we used to have at work.

I can also see through my scan tool that there's been an 02 sensor that's been out for a while and i'm hoping that the cats aren't too plugged... Boy, I'd really be sad if I had to get my buddy fab up some 3" downpipes and eliminate those cats and stock mufflers...

Curious now what plugs you run in yours ?


Again thanks for being so awesome ! You have no idea how much I appreciate it !!!

No worries man. And ya mine was like yours off the line before I changed the plugs. No power and lots of hesitation until 2,000 rpms. I had to keep the rpms up. I put the OEM plugs in and now it's golden. I can start from 1,000 rpms however much I want with no shaking or hesitation. These are the plugs I'd get: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B7_A4...ugs/ES2996717/

[kevinofthenorth]

No worries man. And ya mine was like yours off the line before I changed the plugs. No power and lots of hesitation until 2,000 rpms. I had to keep the rpms up. I put the OEM plugs in and now it's golden. I can start from 1,000 rpms however much I want with no shaking or hesitation. These are the plugs I'd get: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B7_A4...ugs/ES2996717/

I wish they were Canadian :( Up here parts are hard to come by and most part stores mark everything up 120 - 200% which is disheartening. Especially where I'm from up in the middle of nowhere in the great white North...

Luckily though I am a grease monkey and the guy at the parts store here is a good friend so I should be able to get the plugs there. Called for gaskets and they can't even get them. Nor can they get the o rings S4NIK8 mentioned, or the thermostat. About the only thing they could get me was 5w-40 in bulk which is garbage oil that's been cleaned and reprocessed. I wouldn't even start a bonfire with that stuff let alone put it in my car.

The closest Audi dealer is 6 hours away and when I called the first guy told me to just bring it in and they'll change whats required because they don't sell parts. The second guy put me on hold for almost half an hour and told me they didn't stock the parts and it could take weeks to get them in and the third lady told me to call back and talk to the first guy again so it's safe to say I'm going to have to get creative in my search for parts that aren't going to cost me a fortune in shipping and import charges.

Side note : That same Audi dealer told me they were NOT willing to sell me a service manual either so i guess i'm on the lookout for one of those as well if anyone's got one let me know !

Will keep everyone posted on what I come up with ! Thanks again guys !

[b7_Andy]

I wish they were Canadian :( Up here parts are hard to come by and most part stores mark everything up 120 - 200% which is disheartening. Especially where I'm from up in the middle of nowhere in the great white North...

Luckily though I am a grease monkey and the guy at the parts store here is a good friend so I should be able to get the plugs there. Called for gaskets and they can't even get them. Nor can they get the o rings S4NIK8 mentioned, or the thermostat. About the only thing they could get me was 5w-40 in bulk which is garbage oil that's been cleaned and reprocessed. I wouldn't even start a bonfire with that stuff let alone put it in my car.

The closest Audi dealer is 6 hours away and when I called the first guy told me to just bring it in and they'll change whats required because they don't sell parts. The second guy put me on hold for almost half an hour and told me they didn't stock the parts and it could take weeks to get them in and the third lady told me to call back and talk to the first guy again so it's safe to say I'm going to have to get creative in my search for parts that aren't going to cost me a fortune in shipping and import charges.

Side note : That same Audi dealer told me they were NOT willing to sell me a service manual either so i guess i'm on the lookout for one of those as well if anyone's got one let me know !

Will keep everyone posted on what I come up with ! Thanks again guys !

Damn, I liked Canada but that hardest part for me if I moved there would be the difficulty getting parts. Good luck gathering everything you need. The spark plugs seem pretty generic so you shouldn't have a hard time getting those. And I have a service manual so I can send you pictures of pages if you let me know what you need. Or torque specs.

[kevinofthenorth]

Damn, I liked Canada but that hardest part for me if I moved there would be the difficulty getting parts. Good luck gathering everything you need. The spark plugs seem pretty generic so you shouldn't have a hard time getting those. And I have a service manual so I can send you pictures of pages if you let me know what you need. Or torque specs.

So I pulled the coils and plugs. Turns out both valve covers are leaking and I damn near needed two hands to crack the plugs...Uh oh.

Plugs are finished. oil is dirty and I took her out and gave her a real good high rpm run today and now the low oil light is on... Uh oh.

After I cleaned the coils and plugs it did however run a bit better. Hoping the oil consumption isn't due to rings though, starting to get real worried here. tomorrow going to drop the oil and change the filter and monitor oil consumption over the course of the week and see if it"s really that bad REALLY hoping it's not.

Here's what I seen :
http://imgur.com/a/B3wtz

[b7_Andy]

So I pulled the coils and plugs. Turns out both valve covers are leaking and I damn near needed two hands to crack the plugs...Uh oh.

Plugs are finished. oil is dirty and I took her out and gave her a real good high rpm run today and now the low oil light is on... Uh oh.

After I cleaned the coils and plugs it did however run a bit better. Hoping the oil consumption isn't due to rings though, starting to get real worried here. tomorrow going to drop the oil and change the filter and monitor oil consumption over the course of the week and see if it"s really that bad REALLY hoping it's not.

Here's what I seen :
http://imgur.com/a/B3wtz

Hopefully the oil consumption isn't due to piston rings. I bet it's more likely oil leaking from somewhere and/or a bad PCV. That's usually how these cars like to roll. Have you tried pulling the oil cap off while the car's idling? See if it feels like it's being pushed off, or sucked in a little, or sucked in so strong that it feels like it doesn't want to come off. That will give you a clue about the PCV. Did you change the valve cover gaskets?

[S4NIK8]

Get all of the leaks and potential pcv issues sorted out, until then any observations about oil consumption don't mean much.

[kevinofthenorth]

Thanks for the reassurance gentlemen ! That's the plan anyway, will be probably 2 weeks until parts arrive though.

Tried the oil cap thing. Doesn't seem like anything out of the ordinary to me in terms of suction or trying to force itself off which is kinda nice.Although that may be because of the leaking valve covers... Should be picking up plugs tomorrow if they have them in stock, if not Wednesday will be the day for that. Will probably order a vag-com cable as well.

Looks like i'll be ordering a new head unit as well. Had to make an emergency stop and my dog became a projectile and ended up on the dash this morning after his run. One lucky moose and one unlucky rns-e unit. Dogs still mad at me though. Unit has a nice red line in it near the corner now. Still functions flawlessly though

[b7_Andy]

"Dog became a projectile" I was dying when I read that! Poor dog and RNS-E


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kevinofthenorth]

Well gentlemen/ladies today was the day. Finally got my parts and ripped it down. found that the lower spark plug tube gaskets are the cause on both sides. So i ended up just putting it back together until i can find a procedure on doing so. Looks like it would require some torque specs and a little bit of a walk through. any suggestions for me here ?

[kevinofthenorth]

So Now I've gone as far as swapping out all 6 coil packs and I'm still having a really bad misfire from 2000 to about 4000 rpm and some hard starting issues. Starting to think it's fuel related and I'm not getting any codes that are fuel related anymore.. Officially out of ideas.

Bringing it to a shop here is out of the question. I worked for one of them and they're not only crooks they're terrible at fixing anything and the other one employs a man that I believe to be the most unskilled mechanic on this planet. He's that guy that uses the impact to put your drain plug back in.

Know the treads now old but if anyone see's this and can shed some help my way I'd love to hear some suggestions!

[canadianA4B7]

Scan w vag com.

If your RNSE goes up for sale let me know. If your grabbing a replacement I got an address on the USA side. Save some cash on shipping and I can bring it over to Canada and ship it north to you.

Garage you speak of is in near temagami?? Lol I had a truck safetied by those useless f***s, they signed a safety on a truck that had 2 cracked pads, worn rotors to a point the fins were coming through, check engine lights on for about 4 things, there was no e brakes lots of stuff so I can relate to the uselessness u speak of.

I'm sure you know missfire source is fuel, air or fire. Between certain rpm should throw a code. Lpfp might be on its way out, fuel filter might be plugging up too. Check the cables and coils for complete pushed in sounds stupid but u never know. And if all else fails purchase a 2.7T engine and drop it in! You'll never regret it!

[kevinofthenorth]

Vag com cable is still on it's way. Checked the filter too. I was Thinking It could be the HPFP. Has quite the hesitation under accel and if you take it real easy on the throttle off the line it barely stutters and performs almost normally. Thoughts ? Hoping that's not the case with it though.

Shop I was talking about is in Kirkland Lake. Don't trust anyone here as far as I could throw them. Thinking I'm going to have to go out of town to get it done. Don't have anywhere here to do it or id do it myself.

[canadianA4B7]

I've got a spare hpfp for sale in classifieds. You might wanna check the cam follower to. I believe your gonna have one just like everyone else. There moderately cheap and should be replaced often.

But ya you'll need that scanner. The codes will really be the only way to diagnose

Any local shop u can get to that will just scan code?? Most places will do it for no charge (Canadian tire will charge you $89.99+tax) it's cheaper to go in buy the scanner, test car in the parking lot clear code and return scanner.

[Okedokey]

What instructions do you need mate?

[kevinofthenorth]

I've got a spare hpfp for sale in classifieds. You might wanna check the cam follower to. I believe your gonna have one just like everyone else. There moderately cheap and should be replaced often.

But ya you'll need that scanner. The codes will really be the only way to diagnose

Any local shop u can get to that will just scan code?? Most places will do it for no charge (Canadian tire will charge you $89.99+tax) it's cheaper to go in buy the scanner, test car in the parking lot clear code and return scanner.

I actually own a scanner. Going to go get it back from the friend who has it and see if it's thrown any new codes and i'll get back to yah asap on what codes it's thrown. Hopefully it threw a fuel code and I can confirm my suspicions.

[kevinofthenorth]

What instructions do you need mate?

Would you by any chance have the shop manual for the car ? What I really need is torque specs for the head guide plate so I can change my lower spark plug tube bushings and at least that's out of the list of things that needs done.

[Okedokey]

Does this help? If not provide me with engine code and year and specific area of engine.

CHeers

[kevinofthenorth]

Does this help? If not provide me with engine code and year and specific area of engine.

CHeers

That appears to be the entire cylinder head ( on my phone and can't quite zoom ) I've been told there's a plate that goes on top of the head, under the cams and there's a gasket or O-Ring inbetween that and the spark plug tubes and that's where my leak is. It's not horrific but it's in every single tube and it's really starting to get expensive at 65 bucks a coil haha.

Friend is underground today and I can't get my scan tool back until tomorrow so I will update everyone with the codes I find when I get to scan it.

Brought it to CT to get a tire fixed. Said he'd scan it for free when I do my oil change but to be perfectly honest I'd rather not even let them change the oil. They're that bad here. Put it this way, Their lead tech argued with me that driving with my full sized spare which has 100% tread life vs the other 3 wheels with maybe 40% life left wouldn't hurt the differentials. Left shaking my head.

[kevinofthenorth]

So here's those codes:
P2009
P2295
P2006
P2007
P2401

As soon as I cleared the codes the car immediately did an about face and is now running quite well. Going to give it a little bit and see if they come back and see where I end up. I have no idea what the codes were however as my cheap scanner doesn't tell me what the codes actually are.will update when I know more !

Thanks again for all the help everyone!

[canadianA4B7]

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/164700.phtml

This might be posted some where else but it's got nearly ever code imaginable

[b7_Andy]

So here's those codes:
P2009
P2295
P2006
P2007
P2401

As soon as I cleared the codes the car immediately did an about face and is now running quite well. Going to give it a little bit and see if they come back and see where I end up. I have no idea what the codes were however as my cheap scanner doesn't tell me what the codes actually are.will update when I know more !

Thanks again for all the help everyone!

Looking at a list of codes, your P2006, P2007, and P2009 are all stuck flaps on your lower intake runners. That confirms there's definitely some gnarly carbon build up to throw all 3 of those codes...

[kevinofthenorth]

Looking at a list of codes, your P2006, P2007, and P2009 are all stuck flaps on your lower intake runners. That confirms there's definitely some gnarly carbon build up to throw all 3 of those codes...

Well that's relieving and terrifying at the same time. Guess I'm really in need of a tear down ASAP. Trying to get my warranty to cover the spark plug tube gaskets so if they do i'll make sure she stays in the shop overnight and i'll tackle that on my own rather than paying someone copious amounts of money to do something that seems fairly simple.

Kind of strange how clearing the codes made that much of a difference though. The car feels like it's running beautifully now. Tons of power and no hesitation what so ever anywhere in the RPM range.

As always thanks so much guys. You've all been a great help in my adventure in Audi ownership and I couldn't be where I am without yahs !

[kevinofthenorth]

So I brought it in for it's service today so i can get a paper trail to start the warranty claim. Guy pretty much told me they're going to have to trace an unknown electrical issue that could take a lot of hours and tells me that carbon build up isn't an issue in modern engines. I personally think the guys a complete bonehead but maybe you guys might have some input ?

I know for a damn fact that there's a massive amount of carbon built up in that intake so we can all call bullshit on that but the electrical issue kinda bugs me as when it rains my issues get EXPONENTIALLY worse. I've since swapped out all 6 coils and plugs so I can eliminate that as any cause. intake is well sealed and there's no leaks. No other symptoms other than a massive amount of hesitation and backfiring when wet and when it's really coming down the traction control light blinks with the check engine light blinking as well which i failed to mention somehow.
Either way. It's booked into another shop with does strictly VW stuff on Tuesday so I can get my warranty to cover as much as possible so I don't have to fork it over out of pocket.

[Silveravant]

If is worse when it rains check the ECU box for water leaks.

[b7_Andy]

@kevinofthenorth
I have a suggestion for you if you're still chasing some of those codes down. I helped out an Audiziner with a 3.2 that had 3 of the same codes as you. Car had around 120,000 miles I want to say and the carbon buildup actually wasn't that bad. What we found was a broken hard vacuum line that provides vacuum pressure to actuate the lower runner flaps. Here's a picture of the vacuum line that likes to break:
We fixed the vacuum line by sleeving it with a rubber line and now the car doesn't hesitate or jolt during acceleration anymore. Has full power again and the codes are gone. If I were you I'd take a look at that line and see if it's snapped!

[b7_Andy]

Here's another picture.
And also regarding your electrical problems when it rains... Definitely make sure your ECU box is sealed in the back right part of the engine bay

[waiapasi2006]

Here's another picture.
And also regarding your electrical problems when it rains... Definitely make sure your ECU box is sealed in the back right part of the engine bay

Yup, that's one of the culprits right there.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

[kevinofthenorth]

Going to take a look today. Just returned home from my run at the mine. Maybe just maybe that's my issue. I sealed the ECU box a little better and since haven't had the symptoms in the rain return. It's still doing everything else it was though. Hopefully she goes in to the shop in a couple weeks. bringing it to an Audi dealer in Sudbury to see what they find. Would be wonderful if I could find the problem before then and save some cash though.

Boggles my mind how every now and again it will run flawlessly for about 3 or 4 starts then it goes back to having the same issues. It's seemed to have kicked a bunch more codes too so I'll upload those as well in a bit when I'm done checking those lines.