2013 S4 --> 2016/17 S5 ? need some advice

[kasher_khan]

Hi Guys,

So I have been inactive on the forums for a while. I leased a 2013 S4 back in 2012 (when they first came out with the B8.5). It was a fully loaded car with DSG. I loved everything about the car. I turned in the lease last year in August and still have not gotten the replacement. Now that I have a second family car, I am able to get a less practical two door version. I test drove several cars recently, in the exact order below.

2013 911 Carrera - MT
2015 Cayman GTS - MT
2015 BMW M4 - MT
2004 AP2 S2000 - with 10k miles and pristine condition
Subaru BRZ - MT
2013 M3 - DCT Compt.
2013 335is - MT

And then just today a 2016 s5 MT fully loaded. Car had 6 miles on it when I drove it :) I can't tell many differences between my old S4 and the car I drove today. The manual seems great for day to day driving, I would like to add a short throw shifter at some point because the gears are predictably long throws. The exhaust note is what I remember, not as good as some of the other cars I test drove but not bad either. I did notice that there is a lot more super charger wine in the MT then I recall from my S4 DSG. I love the new 20" rims. I am thinking I should order one with daytona grey and magma interior and the 6mt (probably last shot at it). Between the color changes, tow lesser doors and MT I am hoping the S5 is going to be enough of a difference to keep me from getting bored, and not regretting I didn't get the M4:) I had a few questions.

Is invoice+500 still the best deal around (thats what I go my s4 4 years ago, I was hoping the S5 would be cheaper by now).
Now the S4 seems to have a 1k incentive along with credits for the technology package and being over all cheaper than the S5? It seems a shame that the S5 is so much more money.

Is there going to be a 2017 S5 model give the new A4 is out already?

Are there are differences between the S5 and S4 other than wheels choices cosmetically?

Can anyone provide the current Residual and APR for Prem Plus 6mt S5 for 10kmiles.year?

[PlainOleS5]

Hi Guys,

So I have been inactive on the forums for a while. I leased a 2013 S4 back in 2012 (when they first came out with the B8.5). It was a fully loaded car with DSG. I loved everything about the car. I turned in the lease last year in August and still have not gotten the replacement. Now that I have a second family car, I am able to get a less practical two door version. I test drove several cars recently, in the exact order below.

2013 911 Carrera - MT
2015 Cayman GTS - MT
2015 BMW M4 - MT
2004 AP2 S2000 - with 10k miles and pristine condition
Subaru BRZ - MT
2013 M3 - DCT Compt.
2013 335is - MT

And then just today a 2016 s5 MT fully loaded. Car had 6 miles on it when I drove it :) I can't tell many differences between my old S4 and the car I drove today. The manual seems great for day to day driving, I would like to add a short throw shifter at some point because the gears are predictably long throws. The exhaust note is what I remember, not as good as some of the other cars I test drove but not bad either. I did notice that there is a lot more super charger wine in the MT then I recall from my S4 DSG. I love the new 20" rims. I am thinking I should order one with daytona grey and magma interior and the 6mt (probably last shot at it). Between the color changes, tow lesser doors and MT I am hoping the S5 is going to be enough of a difference to keep me from getting bored, and not regretting I didn't get the M4:) I had a few questions.

Is invoice+500 still the best deal around (thats what I go my s4 4 years ago, I was hoping the S5 would be cheaper by now).
Now the S4 seems to have a 1k incentive along with credits for the technology package and being over all cheaper than the S5? It seems a shame that the S5 is so much more money.

Is there going to be a 2017 S5 model give the new A4 is out already?

Are there are differences between the S5 and S4 other than wheels choices cosmetically?

Can anyone provide the current Residual and APR for Prem Plus 6mt S5 for 10kmiles.year?

Residual is usually like 55%ish depends on how they want to structure it. Invoice should be anywhere between $58-62K depending on the packages. If you find me an exact list of whats on the vehicle I can find you an exact invoice!

[kasher_khan]

Residual is usually like 55%ish depends on how they want to structure it. Invoice should be anywhere between $58-62K depending on the packages. If you find me an exact list of whats on the vehicle I can find you an exact invoice!

Oh, I wasn't going to buy the car I drove. That is the wrong color :) I am planning to custom order another s5. They told me that allocations for 2016 were done and that it would have to be a 2017 - for which they seemed to already have a options list ready. So that answers my own question about whether there will be a 2017 s5. I got my invoice price from Edmunds... about 7% off. How accurate is that btw? I was just asking if invoice+500 is still the good deal it was 4 years ago.

[plat]

Yes, there will be a 2017 S5 which is still the same B8.5 that you know. The B9 S5 will be available for MY 2018.

[PlainOleS5]

Oh, I wasn't going to buy the car I drove. That is the wrong color :) I am planning to custom order another s5. They told me that allocations for 2016 were done and that it would have to be a 2017 - for which they seemed to already have a options list ready. So that answers my own question about whether there will be a 2017 s5. I got my invoice price from Edmunds... about 7% off. How accurate is that btw? I was just asking if invoice+500 is still the good deal it was 4 years ago.

I'd ask for invoice -500 or -1000. Still leaves them plenty of room to make money. I haven't seen order banks open for MY17 S5's yet...but I'm sure its close!

[Chanman94]

Tbh the S5 won't be much different from your S4. So unless you really enjoyed the S4, the S5 might get boring pretty quick for you. Since you have a family hauler already, I'd get into a Porsche since that would probably be a lot more fun. Plus seems like everyone is making the jump from Audi to Porsche now :P

[DannyDeez]

Tbh the S5 won't be much different from your S4. So unless you really enjoyed the S4, the S5 might get boring pretty quick for you. Since you have a family hauler already, I'd get into a Porsche since that would probably be a lot more fun. Plus seems like everyone is making the jump from Audi to Porsche now :P

I really have to agree with this. The S5 = your S4 but with two less doors.

I had a 2013 S5 back in 2012 as well and now I have a B8 S4. Kinda backwards from you, but I can tell you they're pretty much the same car.

You test drove a very nice list of cars. Pick any other one of them unless you really miss the S4. My vote would be either the Porsche or M4.

[ParadigmTony]

Im going to agree with the others. Although I still love my 5, the next transition won't likely be to another 5 for me. Although the B9 does have some promise, it will at its roots be very similar. For all the things Ive upgraded you could essentially by from the showroom floor in a Pcar. Id personally go with either of the Porsche Options. You have some outliers in that list too.. lol. I personally do not love the M4. Drove it, and while its got some go and the exterior has some show, the BMW interiors just suck. Nothing tops an Audi cockpit, except of course a Porsche on a Track..

[alexb3210]

You could also check out the 2017 tt-rs that was just enveiled. It has a lot of the features that I love about my 5 but also the extra power we've all been looking for. I know i'm excited to take a look.

[kasher_khan]

Some great feedback in this thread. I thank you all. A lot of things that were said, echo my own thoughts. Perhaps I should mention that even though I don't necessarily need the back seats. The 2+2 config , however useless the backseats on some of the cars, would be ideal. I do occasionally have to drive the toddler around. My daughter will soon be able to transition to a booster seat so that too should help. Having said that some cars on the list have almost useless backseats (FRS, 911). the S2000 and GTS will revert to pure weekend toys. The S2000 is an outlier on the list indeed but that car has to be the most fun for the buck money can buy. Also it has been a car on my bucket list since I was 18. However now that I have seem so many better cars over the years and my back is no longer what it used to be, perhaps that option is left for a younger crowd. The GTS is closest to a true sports car experience, if there was ever such a thing. One of the cars I definitely want still drive the is the new corvette. Again this and the other two, will skew the graph towards weekend toy with no delusions of practicality.

Coming back to what attracted me to the S5 after test driving all the above cars within a span of a few months. THE AUDI COCKIT!, the compfort and luxury, they no lag super charger engine, the assurance of quattro that I won't kill myself in the dry even (snow not an issue). The design may be getting really old but to get the same level of luxury feel form a car, you'd have to spec the m4 with full leather and a number of other expensive options like 19" wheels (with dampers as a must). Doing all that brings the M3 closer to 75K mark, at which point a CPO Porsche 911 or GTS with 100k warranty makes a lot more sense to me personally.

Price is not a huge concern although the S2000 would be the least way to get my kicks and the GTS the most expensive way. Another car I would have really wanted to add to the list was the M2. However I called my guy at BMW and he told me "not happening for less than 10k over msrp"... this year. So yeah that is not on the list. Almost same story with the GT350. I have never owned an American car, so I was intrigued by this whole Flat plane crank thing, but again the car is not available for a reasonable price any time soon.

I also fear what others have mentioned. S5 too close to S4. I did love the S4 but the one thing that did bother me was the nose heavy feel and under-steer at turn in. It is not so obvious in day to day driving unless you end up driving any of the other cars I drove, all of which turn on a dime it seems. Again I know my requirements are conflicted. The Audi dealer just called and said that they will have a 2016 S5, magma red and daytona on the lot next week. I'll check it out. Maybe take if for another spin.

I keep going back to the idea of a CPO 911 carrera. Mostly has take the depreciation hit. I don't need the S (live in NOVA - same reason I don't need the m4). My only concerns with the porsche are that I would be daily driving it and I don't see most people do that that despite what the internet would lead you to think. I.E I have never seen a porsche on my commute and I live in a pretty well off neighborhood. The other problem is the that last statement. I don't want my Boss to think I am driving a 100k sports car( when in essence I would be driving a 65k sports car used). I know I am not supposed to care what others think but in my profession, it matters. And for an engineer to look wealthier than our VPs is not a bright idea:) oh well... first world problems I guess. Everyone is used to me having an S4. the s5 might just be like yeah I switched cars :)

[LordMagnet]

God, I miss my S2000, I keep telling myself I'm going to pick up another one. I'd get another AP1 though, 9000 rpm for the win. Definitely the most fun car I've ever owned.

[kasher_khan]

God, I miss my S2000, I keep telling myself I'm going to pick up another one. I'd get another AP1 though, 9000 rpm for the win. Definitely the most fun car I've ever owned.

Agreed. Out of all the cars, I drove the S2000 left my palms the most sweaty. I don't know what it is about that car, but it feels faster than anything else I ever drove. I have driven the AP1 and AP2s, as much fun as the AP1s are , the lack of traction control and tail happy demeanor, make me scared to drive that car. Also the Slight bit of boost from Vtech at the end can give you that extra power in a curve, right when you are at the limit and that last thing you needed was extra power:)


Too hard on my back though, so doesn't work for a commute situation. Gr8 choice none the less. I have put in a low ball offer on one very nice example. If the dealer comes around, before I pull the trigger on any of the other options, I might just get that car. I used to have an RSX-S (which is the fwd sister of this car).

[Wilbur]

Tbh the S5 won't be much different from your S4. So unless you really enjoyed the S4, the S5 might get boring pretty quick for you. Since you have a family hauler already, I'd get into a Porsche since that would probably be a lot more fun. Plus seems like everyone is making the jump from Audi to Porsche now :P

I agree 100%. I'd pounce on that Cayman GTS or 911 myself. S4 and S5 interior are virtually identical so thats an awfully long time in virtually the same seat with same view. Having said that, I think you'll be able to do better on s5 price in a month or two. Its so old i think they will have a hard time getting rid of them. I'd be very surprised to see residual being anywhere near 55% because its basically a 9 year old model . S5 is a great car though...............You'd fly further under the radar too.

[LordMagnet]

Agreed. Out of all the cars, I drove the S2000 left my palms the most sweaty. I don't know what it is about that car, but it feels faster than anything else I ever drove. I have driven the AP1 and AP2s, as much fun as the AP1s are , the lack of traction control and tail happy demeanor, make me scared to drive that car. Also the Slight bit of boost from Vtech at the end can give you that extra power in a curve, right when you are at the limit and that last thing you needed was extra power:)


Too hard on my back though, so doesn't work for a commute situation. Gr8 choice none the less. I have put in a low ball offer on one very nice example. If the dealer comes around, before I pull the trigger on any of the other options, I might just get that car. I used to have an RSX-S (which is the fwd sister of this car).

AP2 is definitely the sensible and smart choice, they did a number of refinements to the suspension and gave the car more usable power. It's much more predictable. The AP1 is just more savage, it's a ton of fun, but very tail happy. The first time I spun mine out was on the back roads near my house, did a 180 and hit the curb, busting up my rear wheel and knocking the tire right off. The 2nd time I spun out near my house, I was less lucky. I did a 180 and slammed the side into 2 trees, destroying my front and rear fenders.

[leetjon00]

You could also check out the 2017 tt-rs that was just enveiled. It has a lot of the features that I love about my 5 but also the extra power we've all been looking for. I know i'm excited to take a look.

Agree with this. If you can wait a bit, I'd certainly take one of these for a spin before making a decision.

[kasher_khan]

Agree with this. If you can wait a bit, I'd certainly take one of these for a spin before making a decision.

Well. I don't mind waiting. But does the TT-RS have a Mannual option for US? That is the one thing I am looking for. Also for that platform, the Cayman GTS or even a plane S seems like it would be a better option. I haven't driven the TT-S, but the cockpit I checked out at the car show was pretty neat. The reviews were not so great for the TTs atleast.

Also I am not necessarily looking for more power. Thats why the M4 does not appeal to me. I barely pushed the S4 to its limits. The one time I did try to keep up with my friends M3 on the blue ridge parkway, I understeered into oncoming lane (thankfully there was no traffic). I realized then that the S4 is a sporty sedan... not a sports car. I am really graviatiting towards the 911 3.4 these days. The CPO warranty sounds like a great compromise. And the 991s are new Audi S5 money right now. Just affraid of the stigma at work and unknown maintenance costs even under warranty, like brakes, tires (2k?) And the scare I am going to get parking at walmart (yes I do shop at walmart sometimes).

[doug97gxe]

m2

[paul.karroum]

Porsche 100%. 911 is a great move. Many guys on here have done the P-car upgrade and seem to love it.


Sent from my iPhone 6s using Tapatalk

[kasher_khan]

m2

But where do you get one? not without a long wait list and even then some dealers want MSRP+10K. It's a nice car I am sure. Not that nice.

[doug97gxe]

But where do you get one? not without a long wait list and even then some dealers want MSRP+10K. It's a nice car I am sure. Not that nice.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ear=1981&Log=0

[kasher_khan]

Porsche 100%. 911 is a great move. Many guys on here have done the P-car upgrade and seem to love it.


Sent from my iPhone 6s using Tapatalk

I agree.

The short list is:

S2000 (low end) loads of fun and involvmenbt but not comfy at all for commute to me and very impractical.
S5 (mid end) enough sportiness and lots of luxury. too similar to S4 (which I did love)
911 (high end) same price as S5 but perhaps more in maintenance, more fun and still some practicality. Afraid of going porsche too early in life :)

[Wilbur]

But where do you get one? not without a long wait list and even then some dealers want MSRP+10K. It's a nice car I am sure. Not that nice.

I really dont think that will last that long.

[leetjon00]

Well. I don't mind waiting. But does the TT-RS have a Mannual option for US? That is the one thing I am looking for. Also for that platform, the Cayman GTS or even a plane S seems like it would be a better option. I haven't driven the TT-S, but the cockpit I checked out at the car show was pretty neat. The reviews were not so great for the TTs atleast.

Also I am not necessarily looking for more power. Thats why the M4 does not appeal to me. I barely pushed the S4 to its limits. The one time I did try to keep up with my friends M3 on the blue ridge parkway, I understeered into oncoming lane (thankfully there was no traffic). I realized then that the S4 is a sporty sedan... not a sports car. I am really graviatiting towards the 911 3.4 these days. The CPO warranty sounds like a great compromise. And the 991s are new Audi S5 money right now. Just affraid of the stigma at work and unknown maintenance costs even under warranty, like brakes, tires (2k?) And the scare I am going to get parking at walmart (yes I do shop at walmart sometimes).

Have you considered MB at all? cla 45 might fit the bill.

[doug97gxe]

Have you considered MB at all? cla 45 might fit the bill.

no manual

[HazeMyth]

Have you considered MB at all? cla 45 might fit the bill.

CLA45 AMG interior looks like it was designed and built by Fischer Price. As much as MB says it's a real AMG, it really does feel like red headed step child of the AMGs. I do like the CLA45 AMG, however, it was no contest when it came to deciding between that and an S5.

[FaceSmA5h]

2013 911 Carrera - MT - MY VOTE


Is invoice+500 still the best deal around (thats what I go my s4 4 years ago, I was hoping the S5 would be cheaper by now).
Now the S4 seems to have a 1k incentive along with credits for the technology package and being over all cheaper than the S5? It seems a shame that the S5 is so much more money.

Is there going to be a 2017 S5 model give the new A4 is out already?

Are there are differences between the S5 and S4 other than wheels choices cosmetically?

Can anyone provide the current Residual and APR for Prem Plus 6mt S5 for 10kmiles.year?

Price: $500 over Invoice is pretty standard. Invoice is what you should aim for but that's a lot easier to ask for if the car is on the lot. It's April already, I doubt you're going to get an allocation in time as new models usually row in around July.

2017: I believe there will be a 2017 model, but the prices may go up and the COLORS will almost for sure be limited. The only reason why Audi is offered Sepang and Daytona is because its near the end of the life cycle.

Difference: Headlights design. S5 Moonroof only tilts. Wider front bumper and rear bumper. Car can run much more aggressive offsets and wheel sizes.

Residual & APR: Residual is just around the corner of 58% for 10,000 miles. I would think it would fluctuate between 1% up or down depending on the month. APR is around 3.24% (via Money Factor)

[kasher_khan]

So The dealer had the Daytona S5 come in today. Man does that things looks nice. Even next to my friends fully loaded 75K M3 competition with full leather. I would say the S5 has way more presence. I got out of the M3 and sat in the S5 and I was like damn... Thats an accomplishment. The daytona looks absolutely amazing as you can see. The magma red is hard to capture in pictures as always. I am still torn between the black interior (Which goes so well with the allu trim) and the red (which I passed on last time). I didn't know they had Audi rings now. So the 911 I was considering just got sold. The S5 is a real contendor. I want to still custom order a 2017 if I go that route. But the fact that the gray car shown here is the exact spec I would want in a 2016... is hard to pass on. I am going to offer them 500 under invoice (based on edmund's no.s). And see where we go from there.

To throw another curve ball, I saw a really nice 2015 z51 2l5 corvette listed for the exact same price on the internet. I have never driven a corvette before (Any). So I guess thats what I'll be doing this weekend. The pics are from my iphone and it was rainy.. sorry
the white one (identical to the grey one except black interior)
[IMG][/IMG]
the grey one

next to my friends m3 that I drove in

behind (the m3 tires are way wider though, I think the rear rim is an inch wider even thought tire's are both 265)

interior shot

My s4 day I got it... for old times sake

[doug97gxe]

that daytona is beautiful .. don't test drive the vette.. that raw power will let you forget you wanted the S5

[NPuter]

Very cool spec on that! Dealer can go lower than $500 under invoice ;)

[Slobo7x]

Great looking S5, but that steering wheel looks awkward. There is something off there, it looks like there is just too much space on the top. Maybe it's the picture. lol

[leetjon00]

As an owner of a b8.5 s5, I absolutely love it. But if I had a 2013 s4, I would at least wait until the b9 s5 came out before making the switch, or I would try something entirely different.

[B6UltraSport]

Personally I would get bored quickly getting the same car with 2 less doors. Id suggest an M4. I have an F80 M3 (previously had '14 S5) and have no regrets! I'll get to the Pcar one day...

[Wilbur]

Price: $500 over Invoice is pretty standard. Invoice is what you should aim for but that's a lot easier to ask for if the car is on the lot. It's April already, I doubt you're going to get an allocation in time as new models usually row in around July.

2017: I believe there will be a 2017 model, but the prices may go up and the COLORS will almost for sure be limited. The only reason why Audi is offered Sepang and Daytona is because its near the end of the life cycle.

Difference: Headlights design. S5 Moonroof only tilts. Wider front bumper and rear bumper. Car can run much more aggressive offsets and wheel sizes.

Residual & APR: Residual is just around the corner of 58% for 10,000 miles. I would think it would fluctuate between 1% up or down depending on the month. APR is around 3.24% (via Money Factor)

Really doubt the price will go up. I bet they will throw in more options and leave price the same as is standard practice at cycle end. This is an 8 year old car. Just heard my lease is up soon.........possible S5 in my future as rates are so low and dealers will want to move these.

[kasher_khan]

So I did see the order guides for 2017. there is literally no differences. All colors and options are the same. Ordering now and taking delivery serves my timelines better.

I would consider the 2018 S5 (2017 Euro), but chances are there is no MT for U.S and and that is a no go for me.

I paid 500 over invoice when I ordered my B8.5 S4 and it was one of the first delivered in my area. I am confident I can do 500 below on the last gen S5. There are six dealers near where I live. If anyone thinks I should start at 1000 below invoice in the NOVA area, and if they have had luck with that let me know. The dealer I am working with has two identical manual's on the lot. I am hoping that gives me some edge. Although I may still order.

The vette is a bit impractical if I am honest. Who needs that much performance again... in NOVA (a jetta is too much power here). VA judges have nothing better to do than throwing citizens in jail for speeding. I will still drive it this weekend. Just to make sure there are no regrets. I am prepared to be blown away but then again, I have driven nice cars before so it won't be too shocking... I hope. I am only 5,6 so wondering if I would slide around too much in the regular seats (I am told they are designed for a bigger American frame). The s5 seats are not particularly cozy either. I slide around a bit. I wish the side bolsters were bigger or adjusted like the M3. I know nothing about Vette's or american cars. Heck even chosing options is difficult for me on their configuration page. I am guessing z51 and 2lt should be enought. is the magnetic ride as important? We'll see if the one I wan to test drive has it.

Same reason I think the M4 is too much. What appeals to me about the 911 3.4 and S5 is that there is just enough power to get you excited when you need it but good daily divisibility other times. I have zero experience with the 911 though. I would almost be too scared to drive it and get rear ended :). Almost happened in the rain this morning.

[kasher_khan]

Very cool spec on that! Dealer can go lower than $500 under invoice ;)

Aparently so. I offered 1000 below invoice as my opening offer and the sales manager accepted. ???? I guess now the question is what is invoice? I am going by Edmunds invoice here (is that a good) number? Can someone provide the real invoice for the grey car above? Also any input on APR and Residual for 10k for this month will be much appreciated.

Car spec
2016 S5 Prem Plus
Daytona Grey
Allu interior
Magma red interior
6MT
Sports Diff
Optics PLus 20" wheels
Tech Package
Audi rings


Also when I configure the Edmunds price, it says that "Your selection requires the Black Optic Package which is now selected" when I choose the Optics plus package??? Does that make sense? Do you require both ????
super charged badges
first aid kit

[NPuter]

Aparently so. I offered 1000 below invoice as my opening offer and the sales manager accepted. ???? I guess now the question is what is invoice? I am going by Edmunds invoice here (is that a good) number? Can someone provide the real invoice for the grey car above? Also any input on APR and Residual for 10k for this month will be much appreciated.

Car spec
2016 S5 Prem Plus
Daytona Grey
Allu interior
Magma red interior
6MT
Sports Diff
Optics PLus 20" wheels
Tech Package
Audi rings


Also when I configure the Edmunds price, it says that "Your selection requires the Black Optic Package which is now selected" when I choose the Optics plus package??? Does that make sense? Do you require both ????
super charged badges
first aid kit

So should be close to 8% off MSRP. That's really good!
They can send you their invoice, at least my dealer did.

Black optics plus package requires black optics package first (it's a add-on to that).

[kasher_khan]

So should be close to 8% off MSRP. That's really good!
They can send you their invoice, at least my dealer did.

Black optics plus package requires black optics package first (it's a add-on to that).

Thanks so much. That makes sense now. I was wondering how the 20" options is only 1k while the 19" is 1300. $2300 for 20s huh? :) makes sense now

Are there any incentives??? Any one know the the May numbers for APR and Residual on 10k. I am also considering doing the Penfed Baloon loan as an option? Anyone done that before... Any advice on that?

[kasher_khan]

A side bar question: How on earth is it that the insurance estimate on the M4, S5 is about 400$/six months and the 911 is $260/Month???? Used vs New? Fewer claims???

Also on the payment saver (Baloon) loan option from Penfed, the value of the S5 is exact. The M3 is predicted at 75K (68K)and the 911 at 78K. When the actual price for the last is 68K? Penfed math is off by 10k. Do they correct that when you actually apply for the loan or do you end up with a grossly over estimated residual? based on a generalized MSRP for options that the car may not have. Or maybe the options don't matter so much after several years to the bottom line.

[FaceSmA5h]

Daytona Gray all day.