B8 Ko4 owners follow up thread

[A4B8 2.0tfsi]

Besides it being a big intercooler, it doesn’t look like a replica of the Wagner. Buy auto parts on eBay and you get what you pay for.

Those are so BIIIIG

Im planning on this one https://www.airtecmotorsport.com/pro...4-b8-2-0-tfsi/ and with double the size of stock, will probably be well enough, since I'm not planning on racing like a mf.

[Mars2]

I’d expect it to be able to stay at 5c over ambient for longer without heat soaking under less than perfect conditions

Have you ever logged back to back pulls in the summer? Just curious.

High density bar and plate is going to be able to cool better at the expense of slight pressure drop but the better cooling usually more than makes up for it.

Some people will argue that less flow through the core with a high density bar and plate will raise coolant temp but I’ve never seen that actually happen. I’m not discounting that it can, I’m just saying I’ve never seen an increase in temps.


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I did a few run in summer 37°C with multiple pull I stay at +5°C also on multiple pull on Dyno when my tuner log it.

[spike6339]

I purchased the rev9 setup about a year ago, and I don’t feel as if I’ve had any issues. The previous person was right, it doesn’t come with mounting brackets. But it was fairly easy to fabricate something.


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[kneel]

Looking for feedback on intercoolers with installing the CTS K04. I had ordered the ECS Intercooler, but it's on backorder so considering the CTS intercooler. The ECS includes the turbo muffler delete, not sure if the CTS K04 includes that or the CTS intercooler includes that. Should I stick with the ECS or just go with the CTS intercooler?

JHMOTORSPORTS FMIC

Price, fitment and quality

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[HOJeepster]

So I just had my CTS K04 Turbo, CTS downpipe, ECS Intercooler with hard piping and APR Stage 3 software installed by SCR Performance in Loveland. The driving experience is definitely altered as expected - more turbo lag vs the K03. What I wasn't expecting was the K03 on stage 1 'felt' like it was boosting harder and pulled harder, versus the K04 feels 'stronger' but doesn't feel like it boosts as hard. However, its clear the K04 has more top end power because when i floor it from 60, it goes up to 90 like its the business vs the k03. So in summary, the K03 on Stage 1 'feels' more under 'boost', but the Ko4 feels stronger and more powerful up to 6k rpm. Its going to take some getting use to in driving, but the car is definitely faster.

However, I am getting a weird high pitch sound coming from the driver side dash. It almost sounds like an ear ringing pitch, or a speaker feedback high pitch. Anyone have any ideas what this could be? The sound is a bit louder in the video vs real life, but check it out. What is this? (Leak down test shows no boost leaks).

https://youtu.be/bh6wNsDldhs

[Spawne32]

JHMOTORSPORTS FMIC

Price, fitment and quality

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[EvolutionArmory]

For once Spawne and I agree on something.

There’s nothing good about JHM intercoolers.


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[Spawne32]

Besides it being a big intercooler, it doesn’t look like a replica of the Wagner. Buy auto parts on eBay and you get what you pay for.

Shut up Perry. I spent $350 dollars and got the exact high density bar and plate IC with the louvered end tanks Wagner uses.

[Brandon K.]

So I just had my CTS K04 Turbo, CTS downpipe, ECS Intercooler with hard piping and APR Stage 3 software installed by SCR Performance in Loveland. The driving experience is definitely altered as expected - more turbo lag vs the K03. What I wasn't expecting was the K03 on stage 1 'felt' like it was boosting harder and pulled harder, versus the K04 feels 'stronger' but doesn't feel like it boosts as hard. However, its clear the K04 has more top end power because when i floor it from 60, it goes up to 90 like its the business vs the k03. So in summary, the K03 on Stage 1 'feels' more under 'boost', but the Ko4 feels stronger and more powerful up to 6k rpm. Its going to take some getting use to in driving, but the car is definitely faster.

However, I am getting a weird high pitch sound coming from the driver side dash. It almost sounds like an ear ringing pitch, or a speaker feedback high pitch. Anyone have any ideas what this could be? The sound is a bit louder in the video vs real life, but check it out. What is this? (Leak down test shows no boost leaks).

https://youtu.be/bh6wNsDldhs

Tuned K03 is a torque monster down low & good midrange. K04 is week down low, good in the middle and decent up top. I sort of miss the V8 torque the K03 had in regular traffic. It felt ridiculously quick off the line.


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[Nano909]

Tuned K03 is a torque monster down low & good midrange. K04 is week down low, good in the middle and decent up top. I sort of miss the V8 torque the K03 had in regular traffic. It felt ridiculously quick off the line.


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On OTS tunes this is correct. With custom tunes you keep the sick low range torque as well as the godly top range.

[Spawne32]

Tuned K03 is a torque monster down low & good midrange. K04 is week down low, good in the middle and decent up top. I sort of miss the V8 torque the K03 had in regular traffic. It felt ridiculously quick off the line.


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What exactly is "down low"? Because I can get over 2.8 bar at 2800rpm.

[EvolutionArmory]

Who started this myth that the K03 has better torque than a K04? Look at how flat the torque curve is on this APR dyno. And this is only 91 octane.

Attachment 220441


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[Nano909]

What exactly is "down low"? Because I can get over 2.8 bar at 2800rpm.

BB hit 369 wtq at 2800rpm 🤣

[JLAllroad]

Who started this myth that the K03 has better torque than a K04? Look at how flat the torque curve is on this APR dyno. And this is only 91 octane.

Attachment 220441


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The IHI K03 is essentially using a K04 turbine with a K03 compressor, the response down low will be different, more so on a B8.5 using E85, but I know that fact was not known of the poster a few back.

That said, I do believe we can get him closer to the K03 performance, just need some diagnostics and tweaking.


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[bb-tt]

3rd gear pulls with ko3, k04 , and custom tune for ko4 MAF and time from 2k rpm to 7k in 1k increments. If you think your k04 is laggie something is not set right or you have a boost leak.

[Iceman502]

3rd gear pulls with ko3, k04 , and custom tune for ko4 MAF and time from 2k rpm to 7k in 1k increments. If you think your k04 is laggie something is not set right or you have a boost leak.

BB can you add your boost actual to that table? You've got me beat by 5-15% across the rev range, and it would be interesting to see what pressure you're running to do that. Maybe IAT if you're feeling really generous

[A4x]

The laws of physics say otherwise. Bigger turbo = more lag. Keep it simple folks.

Don't get me wrong, going from K03 to K04 is not a big jump in size. However, there is a small size difference which will contribute to extra lag. Just like you get more top end with K04. The tradeoff must be somewhere. This isn't perpetual motion or reversing the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I believe this one would fall under Newton's second law.

Turbo size is matched to the engine and other parameters for a reason. Otherwise everyone would just be going with the biggest turbo they can.

Some people just can't admit after they have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of their time to "upgrade" they get additional turbo lag .

Another factor is they largely forget what it was like to drive a stage 2 stock turbo car. I know I do. But in the back of my head, I remember it was hella fun until 4500 rpm or so.

[bb-tt]

The laws of physics say otherwise. Bigger turbo = more lag. Keep it simple folks.

Don't get me wrong, going from K03 to K04 is not a big jump in size. However, there is a small size difference which will contribute to extra lag. Just like you get more top end with K04. The tradeoff must be somewhere. This isn't perpetual motion or reversing the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I believe this one would fall under Newton's second law.

Turbo size is matched to the engine and other parameters for a reason. Otherwise everyone would just be going with the biggest turbo they can.

Some people just can't admit after they have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of their time to "upgrade" they get additional turbo lag .

Another factor is they largely forget what it was like to drive a stage 2 stock turbo car. I know I do. But in the back of my head, I remember it was hella fun until 4500 rpm or so.

The k04 is not a big turbo.

[A4x]

The k04 is not a big turbo.

I didn't say it was. What I said is the K04 is bigger than the stock turbo.

[Spawne32]

I didn't say it was. What I said is the K04 is bigger than the stock turbo.

There is a lot going on here besides just turbo size. I think one of the big things we have come to find out recently is that many of the OTS tunes we were relying on for K04 turbos do not utilize the low end torque the thing is capable of producing. Even if the K04 spools slightly later than the K03, its only by a couple hundred RPM, something that is barely even noticeable except for on a dyno. BB's 369 ft lbs of torque @ 2800rpm is far beyond anything anyone has produced on pump gas thus far.

[Iceman502]

The k04 is not a big turbo.

Agreed, the housings many of us are using are exactly the same/nearly identicaly to the stock IHI, so the volume you have to fill before building pressure is the same (minus larger intercooler, but this can be found on most stage 2 cars anyways). The wheel is the only change, and in this case, it is more effective across a wider range of operating conditions.

The laws of physics rely on numbers, which in this case, clearly show the K04 wheel outperforming the K03 wheel. More boost = more air, and BB's data comparison is the best validation you could ever ask for.

[A4x]

You are comparing BBs custom tune K04 to what? And OTS stock turbo tune?

Let's keep it apples to apples and for your average enthusiast who doesn't have hundreds of hours to custom tune a 4 cylinder A4: APR stock turbo stage 2 produces a significant amount more low end torque than APR K04 tune. These are the facts. Custom tune a stock turbo and you'd probably get even more torque.

I've seen countless number of users who just spent $4000-5000 to have a shop install their K04 and come on here to mention the turbo lag. I want this to be completely transparent for people like that BEFORE they drop the cash. You will gain additional turbo lag with K04! It's NORMAL to have more turbo lag with the K04 "upgrade".

This is almost equivalent to Perry coming on here telling us how strong the IE K04 tune is. It's complete bullshit, and I don't want to mislead the average enthusiast.

[bb-tt]

I didn't say it was. What I said is the K04 is bigger than the stock turbo.

Agree was on phone so kept it short. The difference in spool for the k03 and k04 is negligible, it is a stock turbo for many vag applications. If you are noticing a difference there is most likely an issue with the setup (boost leak, restrictions to the flow, wg issues) or your tune just does not request much boost down low. As shown in the table i posted my car built rpm (spooled up quicker) with both the ie beta and wpt k04 tune than with a stage 2 ie tune. Will have to look and see if i can find a log of the ie stock k04 tune for comparison. But in general yes lag sux and a bigger turbo will have more lag but there are thing s you can do to try to counteract some of that.

[A4x]

Agree was on phone so kept it short. The difference in spool for the k03 and k04 is negligible, it is a stock turbo for many vag applications. If you are noticing a difference there is most likely an issue with the setup (boost leak, restrictions to the flow, wg issues) or your tune just does not request much boost down low. As shown in the table i posted my car built rpm (spooled up quicker) with both the ie beta and wpt k04 tune than with a stage 2 ie tune. Will have to look and see if i can find a log of the ie stock k04 tune for comparison. But in general yes lag sux and a bigger turbo will have more lag but there are thing s you can do to try to counteract some of that.

If there are things you can do to counteract that, then there are things you can to to speed up the spool time on a smaller turbo! Stop being delusional.

[bb-tt]

BB can you add your boost actual to that table? You've got me beat by 5-15% across the rev range, and it would be interesting to see what pressure you're running to do that. Maybe IAT if you're feeling really generous

i could but boost just shows how much restriction you have and i have posted lots of logs on here that show how much boost pressure i have. MaF is a much better indication of power than boost.

[Spawne32]

You are comparing BBs custom tune K04 to what? And OTS stock turbo tune?

Let's keep it apples to apples and for your average enthusiast who doesn't have hundreds of hours to custom tune a 4 cylinder A4: APR stock turbo stage 2 produces a significant amount more low end torque than APR K04 tune. These are the facts. Custom tune a stock turbo and you'd probably get even more torque.

I've seen countless number of users who just spent $4000-5000 to have a shop install their K04 and come on here to mention the turbo lag. I want this to be completely transparent for people like that BEFORE they drop the cash. You will gain additional turbo lag with K04! It's NORMAL to have more turbo lag with the K04 "upgrade".

This is almost equivalent to Perry coming on here telling us how strong the IE K04 tune is. It's complete bullshit, and I don't want to mislead the average enthusiast.

No I am not trying to do a comparison, just merely stating that the idea that the turbo itself, specifically the upgrade from the K03 to the K04 causes turbo lag just isn't true. It is capable of producing actually more low end torque at the same if not lower rpm than the K03 is capable of with any of the available offerings for the K03 on the market, that's all. My point being that "turbo lag" is not something that is an issue on the K04 at all. If you are experiencing turbo lag, that is entirely in the tune, and nothing more.

[JLAllroad]

Agree was on phone so kept it short. The difference in spool for the k03 and k04 is negligible, it is a stock turbo for many vag applications. If you are noticing a difference there is most likely an issue with the setup (boost leak, restrictions to the flow, wg issues) or your tune just does not request much boost down low. As shown in the table i posted my car built rpm (spooled up quicker) with both the ie beta and wpt k04 tune than with a stage 2 ie tune. Will have to look and see if i can find a log of the ie stock k04 tune for comparison. But in general yes lag sux and a bigger turbo will have more lag but there are thing s you can do to try to counteract some of that.

Btw, I don’t know why we would feel good about comparing and beating any the IE OTS tunes at this point.


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[JLAllroad]

No I am not trying to do a comparison, just merely stating that the idea that the turbo itself, specifically the upgrade from the K03 to the K04 causes turbo lag just isn't true. It is capable of producing actually more low end torque at the same if not lower rpm than the K03 is capable of with any of the available offerings for the K03 on the market, that's all. My point being that "turbo lag" is not something that is an issue on the K04 at all. If you are experiencing turbo lag, that is entirely in the tune, and nothing more.

And if you are not getting more response out of a K03 than a K04, down low, it is tune related. There is a point down low at which you might need to question the reasoning, longevity?


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[Spawne32]

And if you are not getting more response out of a K03 than a K04, down low, it is tune related. There is a point down low at which you might need to question the reasoning, longevity?


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Not so much longevity in my opinion as it is safety. Hard pressed to sell a tune to the general public which everyone can just flash to their car regardless of location, mods, etc and not run the risk of blowing cars up if you are that aggressive down low. Certain brands are far softer on low end power then others are, which time and testing has proved. The custom tuning is drawing out every last drop of power we can, and that's what we want.

[bb-tt]

If there are things you can do to counteract that, then there are things you can to to speed up the spool time on a smaller turbo! Stop being delusional.

I am not delusional there just really is not that much of a difference between the k03 and k04 in terms of spool time. Go drive a tt and then a tts or mk1 180 vs 225 the k04 accelerates faster the k03 may spool slightly quicker from 1-2k but it is so insignificant that it is really irrelevant. At least with a true BW k04, i have no experience with JHM k04 as after reading posts on here of all the people unhappy with it and emailing with people that had them i decided i would not buy a JHM turbo.

[A4x]

I am not delusional there just really is not that much of a difference between the k03 and k04 in terms of spool time. Go drive a tt and then a tts or mk1 180 vs 225 the k04 accelerates faster the k03 may spool slightly quicker from 1-2k but it is so insignificant that it is really irrelevant. At least with a true BW k04, i have no experience with JHM k04 as after reading posts on here of all the people unhappy with it and emailing with people that had them i decided i would not buy a JHM turbo.

I am talking about apple to apple comparisons between stock turbo and K04. You are telling me to go drive a TT, TTS, or MK1. I'm done!

Bigger turbo = more lag. It's simple.

[SNice]

Just curious here - what is the ballpark cost of a custom tune? Not including parts, downtime, etc. What do custom tuners charge for their service? Flat fee, hourly, x number of revisions free? I think this info might help future K04’ers.

How does custom tune cost compare to OTS?


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[Spawne32]

Bigger turbo = more lag. It's simple.

You're not even listening to a word anyone is saying in this thread are you?

[bb-tt]

I am talking about apple to apple comparisons between stock turbo and K04. You are telling me to go drive a TT, TTS, or MK1. I'm done!

Bigger turbo = more lag. It's simple.

Yes we already agreed a big turbo creates lag, we also agreed a k04 in not a big turbo.

a tt (k03) and tts (k04-0064) have the same turbos we are comparing here, the k04-0064 is what comes on the tts the regular tt gets the k03(ihi) it is the exact same turbo i started with and then what i now have. As far as the mk 1 it is just the previous generation of k03 and k04 and has the same results no noticeable lag between the two. I did a crab apples(k03) to apples(k04) comparison in the table i posted. Maf measures how much air is being moved by 2k they ko4 is already moving more air. Not only was it moving more air it was building rpm quicker at every point on logs from 2k to ~7k I will go find a stock ie k04 log and throw it in there. Also the only time i drive between 1-2k rpm is when the wife is in the car so really wouldn't notice anyway if there was a difference in that range.


EDIT: updated table with the last IE run i did before starting custom tune this is version one of their OTS Tune

[HOJeepster]

Well this is all interesting feedback on K04. I just wanted someone to listen to my youtube video sound and help me determine what that might be haha. I'll have to drive more with the new K04 and see whats up.

[Nano909]

Just curious here - what is the ballpark cost of a custom tune? Not including parts, downtime, etc. What do custom tuners charge for their service? Flat fee, hourly, x number of revisions free? I think this info might help future K04’ers.

How does custom tune cost compare to OTS?


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Not much more in comparison to an OTS tune. IE and APR are like $500-$600 plus the shop's fee. If you were to follow us, you'd pay $300 for the HPTuner's dongle, $100 for 2 credits to unlock the ECU, and whatever fee the tuner charges. Maybe it would be a bit more than an OTS tune, but you'd be getting a tune specific to your car without all the lag and weak low end torque the OTS tunes give.

[Nano909]

I am talking about apple to apple comparisons between stock turbo and K04. You are telling me to go drive a TT, TTS, or MK1. I'm done!

Bigger turbo = more lag. It's simple.

If you want to just say a generic statement with a generic answer, then yes a K04 lags more than a K03. But do you honestly believe the lag is even noticeable after seeing the things BB is posting?

[JLAllroad]

Yes we already agreed a big turbo creates lag, we also agreed a k04 in not a big turbo.

a tt (k03) and tts (k04-0064) have the same turbos we are comparing here, the k04-0064 is what comes on the tts the regular tt gets the k03(ihi) it is the exact same turbo i started with and then what i now have. As far as the mk 1 it is just the previous generation of k03 and k04 and has the same results no noticeable lag between the two. I did a crab apples(k03) to apples(k04) comparison in the table i posted. Maf measures how much air is being moved by 2k they ko4 is already moving more air. Not only was it moving more air it was building rpm quicker at every point on logs from 2k to ~7k I will go find a stock ie k04 log and throw it in there. Also the only time i drive between 1-2k rpm is when the wife is in the car so really wouldn't notice anyway if there was a difference in that range.


EDIT: updated table with the last IE run i did before starting custom tune this is version one of their OTS Tune

What was the condition of your K03 wastegate when pulled? verified?

What is the condition of many of our stock wastegates?

Apples to Apples would mean the turbo WG is functioning properly on both turbos and tune is the same (maximized for the turbo).

I’m going to have to say at that point your going to lose arguing physics.

K03 is designed for torque given its K04 sized turbine.

K04 is designed to flow more air (than a K03) given its larger compressor (more weight)

Hybrids try and bridge the gap by lightening the wheels but none of the OTS software is set up to leverage that.


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[EvolutionArmory]

K04’s are laggy turbos? My inferior B7 didn’t get that memo. Peak boost at 2600-2700. 🤣


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[Perry01]

This is almost equivalent to Perry coming on here telling us how strong the IE K04 tune is. It's complete bullshit, and I don't want to mislead the average enthusiast.

You are misleading everyone who is reading this by saying that I told anyone how strong the IE K04 tune is. I’ve never once commented on its performance because I’ve never had it installed on my vehicle. I back up my comments with data, and first hand knowledge. Yes, my IE tune is very strong but I’ve always stated that it’s a custom tune and that information is also I’m my signature so no one is mislead. If you want to know where the complete bullshit is coming from, look in the mirror.