B8 Ko4 owners follow up thread

[AUDacIouS4]

I don’t think you’d gain 20whp but they’d likely be able to find places in the powerband where they can push it further depending on hardware and such. Regardless, nearly 300whp on the stock turbo is excellent


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I think it's possible. The easy way is to run lightweight wheels, that will get me over 300whp on tbe dyno easy. If I'm currently only hitting 19psi peak boost and the k03 can make 22, then usually 1 psi if boost = 10whp. I need to turn the boost up and richen up the fueling. I made the most power in 5th gear which I noticed on the track is the most powerful. If you look at the lambda in 5th gear, it runs almost a whole point richer than 4th gear and makes 9whp/13wtq more power. Giac has gears 1-4 too lean and underboosted.

I think E85 +meth + lightweight wheels +k04 = 11's.

Somone get @Allroadcorbin and @Earythmic some lightweight wheels already!!!!!

[Perry01]

I forgot to mention that I'm only running 19 psi peak boost tapering to 13.5. Requested is 22.5 tapering to 16.5......damn ginormous FMIC!!

Are you attributing 3+ PSI under requested due to your IC?

After installing an IE intercooler I didn’t see much of a drop in pressure. Whatever drop in psi was made up by the cooler, denser air going into the motor.

[AUDacIouS4]

Are you attributing 3+ PSI under requested due to your IC?

After installing an IE intercooler I didn’t see much of a drop in pressure. Whatever drop in psi was made up by the cooler, denser air going into the motor.

That was my thinking. The turbo is probably generating the correct amount of boost pressure but it gets reduced by the larger volume of the intercooler. Its like you said, slightly less boost pressure but it's colder/denser so it generates more power. On a k04 or bigger turbo, the bigger FMIC wouldn't affect boost pressure but with the smaller JH5 it does.

I just sent GIAC some logs and my dyno. They think I can run about 10* more timing and likely make another 20whp mid range and up top. They said the JH5 (k03) isn't going to move any more air than it already is, so that's tapped out. The only way to make any more power is timing advance, and lots of it.

[Coldcarnival]

What's "the business" lol? my sedan weights 3940 with me and half a tank. And I weight 170.

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[AllroadCorbin]

What's "the business" lol? my sedan weights 3940 with me and half a tank. And I weight 170.

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By that I mean was on this thread gunning for the lowest 1/4 time. it seems like all the lowest times/ people trying are in Allroads


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[Spawne32]

I don't even acknowledge E85 dynos as being part of the group. As great as E85 is, because it isnt available at the pump all over the nation, it's not something most people will ever see. I live in the tristate around philly, i know of ONE E85 station near the atco raceway, and not a single other in my area. Dunno why the stuff isnt more regularly available to be honest.

[MagnaFlow]

Solid power numbers! This car looks like a ton of fun!

[earhythmic]

Anyone have experience with the Killer Chiller? I’m wondering if running one and bypassing my big ass intercooler (and swapping out the big ol 20s) will get me in 11s.

https://killerchiller.com/products/2...-turbo-kc-kits

[B8_Dude97]

The s4 guys better look out. Couple more bt builds and we're looking pretty good.

This is the same turbo apr ran a 12.2 with and this guy ran a 11.7 with fueling upgrades

...they said it would never happen....


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[AUDacIouS4]

"That's A LOT of money Al !! Maybe it's time we re-think our decision making paradigm?"

[Spawne32]

Even 300whp seems to be a pipe dream on the K04 on pump gas. lol

[spin0rz]

Even 300whp seems to be a pipe dream on the K04 on pump gas. lol

I know right


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[Coldcarnival]

Even 300whp seems to be a pipe dream on the K04 on pump gas. lol

I think that's possible on 93 , but not on a mustang Dyno lol

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[Zach L]

More info on that Big Turbo A5, related to K04 discussion:

Nice....but how's the turbo lag? I'd imagine it's got almost all of it's power in the upper rpm's, no?

Here is the graph, I have more than enough torque at 3k rpm. After K04 I don't feel much difference in spool.

Nice build. Who did the tuning?

Thanks)
All software (ECU and TCU) by AGPMotorsport. It's a Russian company specialized in custom tuning.

[AUDacIouS4]

More info on that Big Turbo A5, related to K04 discussion:

That graph doesn't have Tq And HP cross at 5250 rpm. Is the Hp - Nm relationship different?

[Brandon K.]

That graph doesn't have Tq And HP cross at 5250 rpm. Is the Hp - Nm relationship different?

Can someone please explain to me why they need to cross at 5250 rpm? I know a good amount about cars (been my hobby for 25 years) and have an engineering degree and I have only read this information about it crossing at 5250 on this board. I don’t understand why/how I have never heard of this before.

Thanks


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[Jake@JHM]

can someone please explain to me why they need to cross at 5250 rpm? I know a good amount about cars (been my hobby for 25 years) and have an engineering degree and i have only read this information about it crossing at 5250 on this board. I don’t understand why/how i have never heard of this before.

Thanks


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hp = (tq*rpm)/5252

HP is just a measurement of torque over time

[lettuce]

Can someone please explain to me why they need to cross at 5250 rpm? I know a good amount about cars (been my hobby for 25 years) and have an engineering degree and I have only read this information about it crossing at 5250 on this board. I don’t understand why/how I have never heard of this before.

Thanks


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Where did you buy your engineering degree from?

Joking

[Jake@JHM]

That graph doesn't have Tq And HP cross at 5250 rpm. Is the Hp - Nm relationship different?

NM is a higher number than TQ so it will cross sooner.

[Zach L]

NM is a higher number than TQ so it will cross sooner.

TQ is not a measurement unit. Newton-meter (Nm) and pound-force foot (lbsf.ft) are both torque, just different units to measure it.

[Zach L]

That graph doesn't have Tq And HP cross at 5250 rpm. Is the Hp - Nm relationship different?

Only when the torque is measured in pound-force feet (lbsf.ft). That torque is measured in Newton-meters (Nm).

Even when measured in pound-force feet, the only graphs that will cross at 5252 RPM are graphs that have the same scale for both the torque and horsepower axes on the graph. The graph in question doesn't use the same scale on each side, so it wouldn't cross at that RPM even if measured in lbsf.ft

[A4x]

When does everyone's K04 spool up?

Maybe crossing 20 psi is a good measuring point. Can you hit this around 2500 rpm, or is it more like 3000 rpm?

[earhythmic]

It's how dynos are calibrated, 5252 is the standardized constant. I can't find the infographic I saved from years ago, but here's another good copy pasta from somewhere else:

Power is the amount of work that can be done in a certain amount of time and is calculated as Power = Work / Time. Power was originally defined by James Watt (inventor of the steam engine) who noted that a horse could lift at a rate of about 550 lb-ft per second in an 8 hour shift.

-and-

But where does the 5252 come from?

Watt’s definition for HP says: 1 HP = 550 lb-ft / sec, or 1 HP = 550 lb x 1 ft / 1 sec

If we convert straight-line work to its rotational equivalent the formula becomes:

1 HP = 550 lb-ft x 1 rad / 1 sec (a rad is a unit-less measure of a circular distance)

When we convert radians (rad) to revolutions and seconds to minutes the formula again evolves. Note: 6.28 rad per revolution (2 π) and 60 seconds in 1 minute

1 HP = (550 lb-ft x 1 rad / 1 sec) x (1 rev / 2 π rad) x 60 sec / 1 min)

Multiplying and canceling, the formula simplifies to:

1 HP = 5252 lb-ft x 1 rev / 1 min which is the same as: 1 HP = 5252 lb-ft x 1 RPM

So, Horsepower = Torque x RPM / 5252.

[AUDacIouS4]

It's how dynos are calibrated, 5252 is the standardized constant. I can't find the infographic I saved from years ago, but here's another good copy pasta from somewhere else:



-and-

Thanks bro!! I was having flashbacks of Physics 101 bubbling up through the bong resin

[Brandon K.]

It's how dynos are calibrated, 5252 is the standardized constant. I can't find the infographic I saved from years ago, but here's another good copy pasta from somewhere else:



-and-

...must have been a day I skipped class and slept in...come to think of it that was every day except the day before the tests my freshman year. Good thing those Physics test never had anything so simple;) lol


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[AUDacIouS4]

...must have been a day I skipped class and slept in...come to think of it that was every day except the day before the tests my freshman year. Good thing those Physics test never had anything so simple;) lol


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C's get degrees!!

But in all seriousness....k04+E85+meth hasn't been done yet.....what if......and it's a BIG what if... [email protected]....,@ Earythmic.......dialed that in and somehow broke into the magical world of elevensies???

[B8_Dude97]

Technically that's the first b8 2.0 into the 11's. I'm more curious how it pulls and see some vids of pulls from a dig. Granted it's an efr so it's a lil bigger than a k04 but I think a twinscroll efr will get the b8 into the mid 11's then add some meth


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[AllroadCorbin]

Technically that's the first b8 2.0 into the 11's. I'm more curious how it pulls and see some vids of pulls from a dig. Granted it's an efr so it's a lil bigger than a k04 but I think a twinscroll efr will get the b8 into the mid 11's then add some meth


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It’s more than a little bigger on top end flow.

Also adding meth isn’t going to shave .3 seconds off my time. That would be the equivalent of taking like 400lbs off my car.


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[spin0rz]

It’s more than a little bigger on top end flow.

Also adding meth isn’t going to shave .3 seconds off my time. That would be the equivalent of taking like 400lbs off my car.


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Meth will allow you to run a higher octane but I doubt that'll shave off 0.3.

People are ridiculous with their goal to see a b8 perform in the high 11. Half the cars on this forum can't even break 300awhp without flex fuel/meth etc.

Lettuce f23L has been the most consistent with these pulls before anyone started the hunt for the "let's get cts turbo kit owners on the track".. Ya, the f23L and.. 91 octane?

Now it's.. Let's prove 45+ buyers they didnt invest in the wrong turbo with the jhm k04r. ( Almost 2 month wait time If not more?)

Personally, I'd have gone with either f23L or hpa with a lovely turbo blanket if everyone went apeshit over that ceramic coating.


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[spin0rz]

Double posted.

[B8_Dude97]

It’s more than a little bigger on top end flow.

Also adding meth isn’t going to shave .3 seconds off my time. That would be the equivalent of taking like 400lbs off my car.


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I was speaking of the bt a5 that is already on meth running a 11.7 with a single scroll efr. I was thinking a twinscroll plus a better dsg tune he could get into the 11.5's


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[AllroadCorbin]

I was speaking of the bt a5 that is already on meth running a 11.7 with a single scroll efr. I was thinking a twinscroll plus a better dsg tune he could get into the 11.5's


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DSG?


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[hyperunion]

DSG?


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Yeah ... "Rest of the world" b8's and 8.5's got the 7 speed dsg very similar to the one in the s4 .. tho personally I feel the zfhp8 55 is the better , more reliable and faster transmission!.

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[AUDacIouS4]

Ethanol based fuels make more power than any gasoline based race fuels. They carry more oxygen and with that the ability to run more spark advance which makes more power.

It's not just peak numbers either if you look at the average tq and hp in the column to the right.

Let's think this through for a second. Smellie: [email protected].
100oct + meth.
Allroadcorbin 12.3@111
93+ a splash of E85
Both ZF8
Car weights?? DA??

Smellie has tons of track experience and was running 12.7 a few months before his personal best.

Allroadcorbin went once for the first time with low ethanol content on 33lb ridiculously heavy wheel/tire combo and still managed to beat smellie on an OTS tune!! How much power is left on the table with that APR tune???

Reducing the unsprung weight by 10-13lbs per corner and yanking the spare/Jack will get you damn close to shaving off 125lbs of weight right there. Not to mention the drastic effect of acceleration with lighter wheels. Don't believe me? Poke your head over to the B8 S4 1/4 mile spreadsheet and ask those guys how much time they were able to shave off running light wheels. Plus they are all starting to run E40 blends + meth. See the trend?

I don't think it's irrational to see lower lower 1/4 mile times and trap speeds out of E85+ meth on the k04. In the mean time I want to remain optimistic until the data proves otherwise.

[Coldcarnival]

I'll have some more data tomorrow lol. Went to a no time event last week and got my trap up to 109. Running full e85*

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[AllroadCorbin]

There’s almost no power left on the table with APRs K04 file. They fueling is totally maxed out on E85. I logged A/F ratios a while back on a full tank of E and it gets a bit lean up top. The pump and injectors are at their limit.


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[Spawne32]

There’s almost no power left on the table with APRs K04 file. They fueling is totally maxed out on E85. I logged A/F ratios a while back on a full tank of E and it gets a bit lean up top. The pump and injectors are at their limit.


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well E85 requires 35-40% more fuel to make the same power as gasoline, thats ALOT more required fuel compared to what the system was designed for.

[AUDacIouS4]

There’s almost no power left on the table with APRs K04 file. They fueling is totally maxed out on E85. I logged A/F ratios a while back on a full tank of E and it gets a bit lean up top. The pump and injectors are at their limit.


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AFR/LAMBDA values you see are hitting fuel targets right? You would need to be able to compare the fuel target table vs actual lambda (which is what you should use for E85). Since we don't have access to the fueling tables that will be hard to do. So it's not an indicator of whether or not your fuel system is able to meet those requirements as much as it's telling you IT CAN. Its nor uncommon for direct injected motors to be able to run leaner, like 12.5:1 - 13.0:1 up top. You need to log fuel rail pressure and fuel pump duty cycle to determine whether your reaching the limits of the HPFP.

Also you need to see what your total timing advance is. You should be running 20*-25* or more up top and if your not your down on power.

Remember you can tune for boost or tune for power, not both. If APR is running that K04 near it's efficiency range to maximize boost pressure than more than likely they will be running lower timing. Conversely you can run a tad less boost and run more timing if fuel allows (e85) and make more power......and with meth you can have both!!

[AUDacIouS4]

Looks like 6th gear is actually the 1:1 ratio gear in the zf8. 5th is pretty close, which is why it should be used for dyno pulls. All I know is that on the track 5th gear feels like a raped ape!

[AllroadCorbin]

Looks like 6th gear is actually the 1:1 ratio gear in the zf8. 5th is pretty close, which is why it should be used for dyno pulls. All I know is that on the track 5th gear feels like a raped ape!

So what happens if you do a dyno run in 4th or if you do it in 7th? How would each sway the results


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