B8 Ko4 owners follow up thread

[Nano909]

Then that’s tune vs tune.

And you need to find someone with a K03 that isn’t WG compromised.

The APR example is actually quite good as they stand to lose money with an over performing K03.


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Yes, we need to see what a K03 can do when it isn't limited by the safeguards OTS tunes have.

They're not necessarily at risk of losing money since they're still advertising their K03 tune on that graph. Either way they win.

[A4x]

They're not necessarily at risk of losing money since they're still advertising their K03 tune on that graph. Either way they win.

I created that graph based on their separate stock turbo and K04 graphs. APR didn't create it haha.

[Nano909]

I created that graph based on their separate stock turbo and K04 graphs. APR didn't create it haha.

Oh, my bad. Lol. Looks legit

[Traptalk]

Then that’s tune vs tune.

And you need to find someone with a K03 that isn’t WG compromised.

The APR example is actually quite good as they stand to lose money with an over performing K03.


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Very true

Would of really hurt their k04 kit and tune sales if they could make the k03 perform just the same

[Mars2]

I would really like to see how sage 2 tune with a Genuine IHI JH5 perform with 8 psi cracking pressure and a stacked JB4 to tune the boost ???

I have the feeling that it could be somewhere in between stage 2 and K04.

[bb-tt]

I would really like to see how sage 2 tune with a Genuine IHI JH5 perform with 8 psi cracking pressure and a stacked JB4 to tune the boost ???

I have the feeling that it could be somewhere in between stage 2 and K04.

You would have to modify or change the wg as it is not adjustable on the IHI

[Mars2]

yes change wastegate or get it modified like I did with bigger spring inside.

- - - Updated - - -

Or you could just add an outside spring to test it

[SNice]

I think the key thing here is to know the limitations of the K03 core assembly in relation to a K04 core assembly. My assumption is that at higher speeds, the K03 CHRA will loose efficiency, generate more heat, and eventually fall apart because it is operating out of its designated range. The graphs are not suprising. The K03 & K04 turbos are similarly sized - the turbines are the key difference here.

Here's my take on it - let me know if I am WAAAY off base. I'm drawing on my experiences in other hobbies (r/c airplanes - specifically props and ducted fans here).
The turbos are 'dumb' machines. They see a flow of air on one side and use that flow to compress air on the other side. That's it. A given fan geometry will have a specific RPM where it is most efficient. On the hot side, the fan (turbine) can be designed to spool quick OR catch as much air as possible given a specific air flow. On the cold side, the fan is designed to compress a certain amount of air at a given speed. As you can see - there is always a tradeoff here. The "ideal operating" window becomes even smaller when we link the fans in the the CHRA. These turbos only have one gear!

...if this was an RC plane, I'd have a CHRA test stand where I could apply controlled air to one side and measure the output on the other. I would then swap out the fans on either side to get the desired performance range. Pop the assembly back into the Turbo and would be good to go.

...which makes me think - these numbers have to be available somewhere from manufacturers - the specs on the turbine units... just thinking as I'm at the point where I would rather drive than test!

[Traptalk]

Turbine maps would be harder to access than getting a true compressor map

EA makes a good point in that it’s hard to find a true compressor map for the k04/2283 wheel. Most you find online are modified/cropped or drawn on and sourced from forums. It is very difficult to find the true map with Borg Warner title block and headers

[A4B8 2.0tfsi]

To defend the "K03", when every proof is showing the K04 as the better turbo, for our 2.0 engines, is like defending the earth, with a foil hat. Aliens don't exist here on earth, and a "K03" turbo isn't better and/or faster in our engines.

[bb-tt]

To defend the "K03", when every proof is showing the K04 as the better turbo, for our 2.0 engines, is like defending the earth, with a foil hat. Aliens don't exist here on earth, and a "K03" turbo isn't better and/or faster in our engines.

yeah i see all the post from the gen3 motor guys that want to replace their IS38 with an IS20 because the 38 is just so laggie

[Traptalk]

yeah i see all the post from the gen3 motor guys that want to replace their IS38 with an IS20 because the 38 is just so laggie

Just imagine how bad a stock b8 a4 would get gapped by a stock mk 6 golf r with k04 or a stock s3 with k04. Definitely faster in the 1/8 and 1/4 and would most likely beat to the next light

Same for the is20/38 cars

All these turbos are basically on/off switches to full boost

A 100% stock comparison of when they hit full boost would be interesting too but wouldn’t be true apples to apples

[JLAllroad]

To defend the "K03", when every proof is showing the K04 as the better turbo, for our 2.0 engines, is like defending the earth, with a foil hat. Aliens don't exist here on earth, and a "K03" turbo isn't better and/or faster in our engines.

One first must know what the argument is...you apparently do not.

https://youtu.be/rz5TGN7eUcM



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[TylerJDubbs]

Had some fun running full E85 in a 2010 B8 K04 with AEM340 LPFP and Mabotech injectors

Zach K04 E85 1.jpg
Zach K04 E85 2.jpg
Zach K04 E85 3.jpg
Zach K04 E85 4.jpg

[bb-tt]

Had some fun running full E85 in a 2010 B8 K04 with AEM340 LPFP and Mabotech injectors

Zach K04 E85 4.jpg

Damn 23 degrees advance

[bb-tt]

I need E only getting 11 degrees on pump.

[Mars2]

Had some fun running full E85 in a 2010 B8 K04 with AEM340 LPFP and Mabotech injectors

Zach K04 E85 1.jpg
Zach K04 E85 2.jpg
Zach K04 E85 3.jpg
Zach K04 E85 4.jpg

How much can the mabotech flow?
Where did you buy those?
Can those handle around 300G/s of air intake with 100% E85?
How much do they cost?

Very intrested in those. I see also that you use AEM lpfp 340L/H like me.
At the moment I'm runing with a fifth injector but if those mabotech can handle 100% E85 then I might remove the 5TH injector with piggy back controller.

[Nano909]

Had some fun running full E85 in a 2010 B8 K04 with AEM340 LPFP and Mabotech injectors

Zach K04 E85 1.jpg
Zach K04 E85 2.jpg
Zach K04 E85 3.jpg
Zach K04 E85 4.jpg

I'm going to fill up on E85 now.

[TylerJDubbs]

How much can the mabotech flow?
Where did you buy those?
Can those handle around 300G/s of air intake with 100% E85?
How much do they cost?

Very intrested in those. I see also that you use AEM lpfp 340L/H like me.
At the moment I'm runing with a fifth injector but if those mabotech can handle 100% E85 then I might remove the 5TH injector with piggy back controller.

They are being run at about 62% duty at 120bar in this application, lots of headroom with more pressure available I’m sure they would be fine for E85 on a car running more airflow than this one :)

Just google the EA888 Mabotech injectors to find sellers if you’re interested

[Mars2]

thank's a lot

62% at 120 bar for 250G.s is lot of room left. That is great news.

I max out my B8.5 flexfuel injector at 195Bar around 270 G.s

Are those easy to tune or as tricky as Nostrum?

[Traptalk]

Had some fun running full E85 in a 2010 B8 K04 with AEM340 LPFP and Mabotech injectors

Zach K04 E85 1.jpg
Zach K04 E85 2.jpg
Zach K04 E85 3.jpg
Zach K04 E85 4.jpg

Why his maf as low as nanos ?

That’s like 250 g/s and he’s able to make 2.7 bar ?

[TylerJDubbs]

thank's a lot

62% at 120 bar for 250G.s is lot of room left. That is great news.

I max out my B8.5 flexfuel injector at 195Bar around 270 G.s

Are those easy to tune or as tricky as Nostrum?

In my experience so far (3 Clients running these) they are not very difficult to tune, most of the difficulty comes from actually running E85 for startup and cold cranking (still a work in progress :))

I cant comment on the Nostrum injectors as a comparison as I haven't had a set of them to test. Cybernet is also running a set of Mabo's on pump gas and they were around 80% at 135bar with 405G's but I believe most of this is due to the Stock LPFP and HPFP piston

[TylerJDubbs]

Why his maf as low as nanos ?

That’s like 250 g/s and he’s able to make 2.7 bar ?

Its still a work in progress so boost duty is conservative thus far will see it turned up in the near future

[Traptalk]

Its still a work in progress so boost duty is conservative thus far will see it turned up in the near future

Is he in elevation?

How much more boost does he need to make normal k04 airflow ?

[Mars2]

In my experience so far (3 Clients running these) they are not very difficult to tune, most of the difficulty comes from actually running E85 for startup and cold cranking (still a work in progress :))

I cant comment on the Nostrum injectors as a comparison as I haven't had a set of them to test. Cybernet is also running a set of Mabo's on pump gas and they were around 80% at 135bar with 405G's but I believe most of this is due to the Stock LPFP and HPFP piston

My tuner did an amazing job on cold start. When I'm in the alps at ski place 6500 feet elevation I usually start on first attempt in te morning when temp is 5°F ( -15°C) with 100% Winter E85 ( winter E85 in France is 65 to 70% ethanol)

My car is not flexfuel from factory so I don't have B8.5 5th injector for cold start. just a "pseudo flex fuel" tune.

[TylerJDubbs]

Is he in elevation?

How much more boost does he need to make normal k04 airflow ?

I believe he is living/logging in Muncie, Indiana

I guess that depends on your definition of "normal K04 airflow"? he runs a bit over 2.2bar absolute to redline could probably get away with 2.35-2.4bar and see closer to 280G's+

[Brandon K.]

The laws of physics say otherwise. Bigger turbo = more lag. Keep it simple folks.

Don't get me wrong, going from K03 to K04 is not a big jump in size. However, there is a small size difference which will contribute to extra lag. Just like you get more top end with K04. The tradeoff must be somewhere. This isn't perpetual motion or reversing the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I believe this one would fall under Newton's second law.

Turbo size is matched to the engine and other parameters for a reason. Otherwise everyone would just be going with the biggest turbo they can.

Some people just can't admit after they have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of their time to "upgrade" they get additional turbo lag .

Another factor is they largely forget what it was like to drive a stage 2 stock turbo car. I know I do. But in the back of my head, I remember it was hella fun until 4500 rpm or so.

Sorry I have not been on here in the last couple week. I started to read all the posts to catch up, but eventually got disinterested in the back and forth arguments.

I agree with A4x and stand by my statement that the K03 has more immediate response (spools faster) and is more fun in traffic. The response from my K03 was more or less instantaneous and the K04 has a slight lag to it. I don’t think I ever actually stated the K03 had more torque, just that it was a “torque monster”. What I was getting at was that it had V8 like instantaneous torque. The K04’s small amount of lag and it’s torque being elevated slightly in the RPMs makes it feel more like a “turbo car”.

Nobody in there right mind would call a K04
a “big turbo” but there is a small concession made going from a K03 to a K04 in terms of a slight delay. To me, if felt like the total torque output of both the K04 & K03 are about the same.

In traffic and from a stop I like the instantaneous torque of the K03. Back roads, the longer legs of the K04 are more fun. My K04 needs brake boosting to get of the line quickly and with the K03 I could just mash the peddle. Like most of us, I do not regret going K04.


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[Nano909]

Sorry I have not been on here in the last couple week. I started to read all the posts to catch up, but eventually got disinterested in the back and forth arguments.

I agree with A4x and stand by my statement that the K03 has more immediate response (spools faster) and is more fun in traffic. The response from my K03 was more or less instantaneous and the K04 has a slight lag to it. I don’t think I ever actually stated the K03 had more torque, just that it was a “torque monster”. What I was getting at was that it had V8 like instantaneous torque. The K04’s small amount of lag and it’s torque being elevated slightly in the RPMs makes it feel more like a “turbo car”.

Nobody in there right mind would call a K04
a “big turbo” but there is a small concession made going from a K03 to a K04 in terms of a slight delay. To me, if felt like the total torque output of both the K04 & K03 are about the same.

In traffic and from a stop I like the instantaneous torque of the K03. Back roads, the longer legs of the K04 are more fun. My K04 needs brake boosting to get of the line quickly and with the K03 I could just mash the peddle. Like most of us, I do not regret going K04.


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My K04 torque is instantaneous 🤔

[flowhigh]

BB has upgraded brakes, Trap has the 345mm Brembos, and I am swapping on the 356mm 2 piston calipers from the A6 soon as the snow clears in front of the garage.

Those are sweet. Don't look like they'll add too much weight either. Same rotor size?

You guys are doing it right. Perry & Nano too

[Spawne32]

Those are sweet. Don't look like they'll add too much weight either. Same rotor size?

You guys are doing it right. Perry & Nano too

Lol Wait, you said "more fun in traffic"? Is that fun from 0-10mph? Lol Those are 356mm rotors for those calipers, heavier, but cheaper.

[Spawne32]

Lol Sorry i replied to the wrong person, i was drunk.

[Brandon K.]

Lol Sorry i replied to the wrong person, i was drunk.

I am deeply offended that you failed to bust my balls properly. Lol


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[Spawne32]

I am deeply offended that you failed to bust my balls properly. Lol


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[Nano909]

Hi everyone. Miss you guys. Any update on anything? Lol

[Brandon K.]

Hi everyone. Miss you guys. Any update on anything? Lol

I got into the 12s at a touch over 104mph with Draggy in my fat ass avant with my JHM K04. I suppose that’s something...Image1615274841.029516.jpg

And apparently several people think I am an idiot for saying there is a slight delay in spool going from Stage 2 to K04.


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[bb-tt]

This is posted in leader board

[EvolutionArmory]

Dang, 12.7 on 91 octane from an OTS tuner without DA being negative? Crazy.


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[Nano909]

This is posted in leader board

I wonder if the people running the OTS version of THAT tune will hit that as well and it's not some empty promise tune like a certain other company.

[TylerJDubbs]

This is posted in leader board

Damn! faster than APR100 cars running meth while only running 91, shits impressive for sure

[Shane Horning]

Damn! faster than APR100 cars running meth while only running 91, shits impressive for sure

I've run a bit faster than that on 91 and meth with apr on my b8. Not sure where you are getting at.
It is very impressive for 91 tho