2010 B8 2.0T Rebuild Options

[vaylein]

Hi Guy's,

First post and a thousand apologies if I've somehow missed an existing thread on this subject.

I've got a 2010 A4 B8 2.0T @ ~87,000KM's with the dreaded oil consumption issue. Currently drinking anywhere a liter of oil every ~250KM's. She feels like she's misfiring a bit and has obviously lost a fair bit of power recently.

Audi Australia have come back after investigating and it's the old story - you didn't show us loyalty by servicing the car here so we're not going to cover it. I'll get fleet pricing for the repair but that's about it *shrugs*

Audi's solution to this problem is the standard piston/ring replacement as everyone already knows. But, if there is any scoring of the cylinder walls, they reckon the only way to move forward is to replace the entire "Base Engine" which will cost me in the area of $13,000 - $19,000. Of course, i won't know exactly what I'm up here for until i commit to whatever work is required and they strip the engine down for inspection.

I've rung around a few of the more reputable dealerships in Canberra to see if there are any other options available to me and have had a couple of people suggest that i should be looking aftermarket for this work. Apparently i can get a set of Mahle forged pistons, rings etc installed for much less than the original Audi parts and in the event that the cylinder walls are scored, they simply buy over-sized pistons and machine/hone the cylinders for the new pistons. Apparently this is a better solution than going with the genuine parts....?...

Obviously, I'm quite tempted with the aftermarket solution as the forged pistons are well above spec for the engine and would support any future modding. The whole cost factor thing is quite attractive too!

Is there anyone out there in the community that's looked at this or has had this sort of work done?
This is going to be a pretty decent investment regardless of how it plays out and i want to make sure I'm not going to do something I'll later regret if i go for the aftermarket kit.
Also, are there any other brands apart from Mahle that I should be considering here? and, is there any other work that I should be getting done while they've got the engine pulled apart?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks very much in advance,
Steve

[lettuce]

I'm in the same boat as you oil consumption wise. I'm currently in the middle of a valve seal replacement to see if that fixes my problem before I go swapping out short blocks. I did buy a block to build up a few weeks ago but decided to do seals first as it's a lot cheaper and easier.

I'll know in a week or two whether or not the seals fixed my problems, so I may change my advice pending the results on that, but in the meantime I can suggest a couple things before you go dumping serious cash into a new bottom end.

Get a cheap USB borescope and drop it into your spark plug holes to see if your cylinder walls are in fact scored. I'm burning as much oil as you and mine are totally fine. I'm at 125k miles and can even make out the factory cross hatch on all my cylinders, yet am still burning about a quart every 200 miles. This plus the fact that the catch can I installed about a month ago is catching virtually zero oil tells me I'm not getting enough blow-by to indicate destroyed rings. A compression/leakdown test wouldn't hurt either.

If your walls are scored then for sure it's time for a new block/re-hone. If not, may try to do your seals first. If you're puffing a lot of smoke that's apparently usually a good indicator of bad seals. Just something to think about. If you choose to do seals I can give you a bunch of info as I'm doing it all myself. It's not terribly difficult as long as you have the right tools.

And the Mahle pistons seem to be the best bet for these motors. There are cheaper options (JE forged), but they don't have the concaved top that I believe is important for our direct injected motors to get a good air/fuel atomization for proper burn. The angular top of the JEs would disrupt airflow enough to inhibit performance I think. Also I'd try your hardest to get a set of pistons that keep your stock compression ratio if you do decide to go that route. As for maintenance items while you're in there it'd probably be a good idea to replace your timing chain and tensioner.

Good luck mate.

[vaylein]

Thanks so much for that reply mate! Lots of great info to go on.

I think I'll grab myself a cheap borescope and have a look-see for myself. It's really encouraging that your cylinders aren't scored - yours sounds rather similar to mind. I originally thought with the power loss and ridiculous oil consumption, I was up the creek without a paddle! Especially when it got so much worse a month or so ago.

I'm really interested to see how you go with those seals man. I don't have a catch can installed myself so no idea really about blow-by but i do have some oil in the hose coming off the PCV breather to the manifold (had a mechanic tell me the PCV was stuffed because of this but Audi seem to think it's fine - it was replaced during the stage 1 fix a few years ago and wasn't mentioned when the had a look the other day). Not sure what that indicates exactly but people seem to scratch their chins and "hhmmmmm" when they shove their fingers into that hose lol.
Would there be any other decent evidence for dodgy seals? Anything else i can look out for?

I'm not puffing a LOT of smoke....BUT... It does have a nice spit of crap when i arc it up on the highway (~10 minutes into the drive to work - gets a bit foggy out back all the way up to 110km p/hr) and it lets out a HUGE cloud of dirty, smelly black/brownish crap after i come down a certain hill (~500m on ~20 degree downward incline with a speed trap at the end) and accelerate through the roundabout. Mostly it all happens after the engine has warmed up - minimal smoke during warmup.

Sounds like i should be going with these Mahle pistons regardless of the cylinder wall wear though - much thanks for the info there! These definitely seem the go!

Really appreciate your input mate, if nothing else, it's nice to know there may be some options out there apart from the bottom end! (and that i'm not the only one in the world that Audi has shafted!)

Thanks so much!

[lpowers]

I'm not puffing a LOT of smoke....BUT... It does have a nice spit of crap when i arc it up on the highway (~10 minutes into the drive to work - gets a bit foggy out back all the way up to 110km p/hr) and it lets out a HUGE cloud of dirty, smelly black/brownish crap after i come down a certain hill (~500m on ~20 degree downward incline with a speed trap at the end) and accelerate through the roundabout. Mostly it all happens after the engine has warmed up - minimal smoke during warmup.

I'm in the same boat as you - original owner 2010 A4 with ~90,000 miles. Black smoke under hard acceleration, stumbling and low oil pressure later. Check your PCV again, I also had mine replaced during stage 1 and later the diaphragm tore and caused stumbling and high crankcase pressure which blew my rear main engine seal. I've decided the most economical option is a DIY replacement with a 2013 CPMB used engine with less than 20,000 miles. I will re-use my turbo, plastic intake manifold (2013+ came with aluminum version for Ethanol blends with a 5th injector incorporated), alternator, AC compressor, hydraulic power steering pump, and engine harness. It is really the least expensive way to go - then I'm going to run the car into the ground, hopefully getting another 6 years/100,000 miles out of it minimum. I'll be completing the swap in my home where I have a 4 post lift - I'll document it all and make a swap thread.

[lettuce]

Basically from what I understand, and this is very over-simplified, is that smoke on vacuum (deceleration, initial throttle application from a standstill) is usually pointing to bad valve seals as it's pulling oil in through your valves, while smoke on boost can come from either/or, but could point to your rings as the blowby is causing an over-pressurization of your crankcase, causing oil to get blown out your PCV and back into your motor. Either way the rings on these cars are known to be bad, but not 1qt every 200 miles bad unless either your walls are scored or your valve seals are also bad. I think the worst most people are seeing with just bad rings and good walls/seals is about a quart every 1-2k miles, with very minimal smoke. Still not good, but relatively manageable.

Again I'm not an expert on this car, I'm just going through this myself and as I rule things out, doing diagnostic work and replacing every known failure point I can think of I get one step closer to tracking down the real issue.

Only thing I can say for sure though is that I'm experiencing very little if any power loss, as the 12.6 I ran at the track back in October set the record (which has since been broken) for fastest B8 A4 on here. So if you are experiencing a loss of power then I'd say that's one point for the 'bad rings' column unfortunately (or possibly a vacuum leak issue with your PCV system, if only it could be so easy). Either way, borescope and compression test should be on the top of your list, and I'll update you once I finish up the valve seal job and get some driving time to see how it's faring then.

[vaylein]

Thanks so much again for all the advise guy's. Y'all have really helped me out.
I ended up borrowing a borescope from work and, well, that was a rather interesting exercise. Found the guy's that did the last service (after which the EXTREME oil consumption started), i found that one of the sparkplugs wasn't torqued down! Barely hand tight! There was literally no resistance on the wrench when i gave it a tug.
Oil all up the ignition coil (which i might add was a PITA to clean out haha!) and inside the coil shaft... Those morons!

Plugs were heaps carboned up. Cracked off what i could without taking any risks and shoved it all back together... Wow! That was a real difference! Compression is back (mostly at least) and the car has actually feels like it has boost again!

Still blowing a bit of black smoke out the back when i rev it at idle and some under acceleration but literally nothing compared to how it was.
Going to take it for a few good drives over the weekend but so far so good!

As far as the whole piston replacement thing goes - I think I'm going to go with the Mahle Forged pistons. Will save me a couple of $K on what Audi want to do and if there is some minor scoring the mechanic says they can go for slightly oversized pistons and re-hone the cylinder to suit.

Things are finally looking up!
Thanks so much again for your help and advise guy's! I appreciate it more than you could know! :)

[Shaph]

that great to hear your car is recovering. I have a B8 2010 A5 with 72Ks on the clock. unfortunately cylinder 3 waved goodbye last year in November. Prestige Auto Werks in Airport West (Melbourne, Vic) quoted me between 9-10k to have the car back on the road however I have decided to just go with forged rods/pistons and a bigger turbo.

[vaylein]

Well, has it been a fun couple of months or what!?! :P

So, I started having issues with my spark plugs loosening. Perhaps it wasn't entirely the mechanic leaving one loose.. *shrugs* Same ridiculous oil consumption even after replacing oil/filter/air filter/intake clean (just liquid moly. Nothing too amazing but was pretty clean anyways surprisingly enough) and tbh when the plugs are tight, it doesn't run all that badly. Still pondering the PCV at that point because of the couple of ml's I could scrape out of the pcv (with intake hose unplugged) with my finger - enough to run down my hand.

Then came the big day! \o/ car goes into Audi for the proper look see!
Scored Cylinder walls.... gutted... new "Base Engine" as they put it is the only solution... Retail price is AU$18,990 with about $2700-$2800 on top for installation!
Special pricing applied for! Manager expects ~$15k but could see the Base Engine go down to $11.5k. Things are grim but are starting to look up. Pretty sure I can manage $12k to have my car, "brand new" (yeah same turbo, intercooler, carbonised exhaust etc etc but they're actually perfect. Turbo is good and stiff and zero leaks. Everything else is perfect), and 0KM's on the clock \o/

Total cost... *Drum Roll*... $18.5K
...

Absurd...
Insulting even comes to mind...
(There is a rather long story with this car and it's oil consumption over time - Long story!)

So, given I'm sort of half staffed, I'm really needing some options as to where/how to move forward. One would really think that they could just replace the cylinder block but they're not interested in machining, honing or even attempting replacing block as 'it can cause problems later on'. There isn't much more of a 'later on' left for this car haha!

Anything y'all could suggest would seriously appreciated. I really don't know where to start right now :'(
Do I chuck some of that shit Rislone Compression Repair junk in and hope for best or might there a reasonable repair that can be done?
I did Investigate some Mahle forged oversized pistons (so can bore past the scratches) but that'll run a good $15k in Canberra anyways - new engine would probably be a better plan there :P *shrugs*

Thanks guy's!

[Project Quattro]

Sorry to hear that. You can't find a used engine and swap that in? These numbers seem pretty high.


Sent from the Pedal Responce boardroom

[Crucible35]

I would figure out a way to trade it in. I had the same issue with my 2009. Had all the work done under warranty even when I was at 146,000 kms. Unfortunately, as some have stated, once they replaced my rings and pistons, the car was good for about 3 months but not only was there scoring on the cylinder walls after the repair, but a small hole was found between the water jacket and cylinder three. Had an indie run the scope and they found it. At that point the only option was engine replacement which wasn't an option.....no value in it. I immediately traded it in (with roughly 198,000 kms on the clock) on a 2015 A4 Sline.

[Shaph]

Well, has it been a fun couple of months or what!?! :P

So, I started having issues with my spark plugs loosening. Perhaps it wasn't entirely the mechanic leaving one loose.. *shrugs* Same ridiculous oil consumption even after replacing oil/filter/air filter/intake clean (just liquid moly. Nothing too amazing but was pretty clean anyways surprisingly enough) and tbh when the plugs are tight, it doesn't run all that badly. Still pondering the PCV at that point because of the couple of ml's I could scrape out of the pcv (with intake hose unplugged) with my finger - enough to run down my hand.

Then came the big day! \o/ car goes into Audi for the proper look see!
Scored Cylinder walls.... gutted... new "Base Engine" as they put it is the only solution... Retail price is AU$18,990 with about $2700-$2800 on top for installation!
Special pricing applied for! Manager expects ~$15k but could see the Base Engine go down to $11.5k. Things are grim but are starting to look up. Pretty sure I can manage $12k to have my car, "brand new" (yeah same turbo, intercooler, carbonised exhaust etc etc but they're actually perfect. Turbo is good and stiff and zero leaks. Everything else is perfect), and 0KM's on the clock \o/

Total cost... *Drum Roll*... $18.5K
...

Absurd...
Insulting even comes to mind...
(There is a rather long story with this car and it's oil consumption over time - Long story!)

So, given I'm sort of half staffed, I'm really needing some options as to where/how to move forward. One would really think that they could just replace the cylinder block but they're not interested in machining, honing or even attempting replacing block as 'it can cause problems later on'. There isn't much more of a 'later on' left for this car haha!

Anything y'all could suggest would seriously appreciated. I really don't know where to start right now :'(
Do I chuck some of that shit Rislone Compression Repair junk in and hope for best or might there a reasonable repair that can be done?
I did Investigate some Mahle forged oversized pistons (so can bore past the scratches) but that'll run a good $15k in Canberra anyways - new engine would probably be a better plan there :P *shrugs*

Thanks guy's!

try a place in Melbourne called Prestige Auto Works. they quoted me 8-9K all up for the exact same issue. however i am more likely to rebuild it with forged pistons. Audi Melbourne wanted the same price 19k

[dracolnyte]

Dealer quoted me 9000 for trade in while my mechanic quoted me $5,000 - $8,000 on engine rebuild lol. best for you to just trade it in

[AutoRacer100]

Did the OP trade in the car or rebuilt the motor with forged internals?