DIY Engine Replacement?

[lpowers]

TLDNR: Original owner, 2010 A4, bad engine, out of oil consumption warranty. Contemplating DIY engine replacement with 2012 MY+ engine. Models of donor cars? Is it plug-and-play?


Hello,

New to posting, but have been lurking for years. As the thread implies, I am the original owner of a 2010 A4 with ~100K miles and am contemplating what to do next.

History:
Car has burned oil since day 1, always told it was normal by Audi, had Stage 1 completed before the class action settlement. Never returned for 1,000 mile consumption recheck as new PCV, front crank seal, and reprogram seemed to work. Many miles later, consumption issue returned with a vengeance, and black smoke (leaky rings) under hard acceleration. When I received the settlement letter, it was past the mileage cut-off.

I doubt I would see an ounce of goodwill from Audi as I have maintained it since day 1, regular oil changes and recommended maintenance performed. Only times it was at dealer where for complimentary oil change and warranty work.

Car is leaking oil from front timing cover, rear main seal (RMS), had low-oil pressure warning if revs not kept above 1K RPM, and had recent hard stuttering at idle. Checked oil pressure with manual gauge and it was low. Removed front bumper, radiator, intercooler, etc. to get good look at front cover - cleaned all the gunk off very well and re-assembled. Huge stream of oil out of front cover after cleaning - I believe the gunk was acting as a plug for an oil leak. The PCV valve also had a large 1" tear in it - this was replaced before restarting car after disassembly.

I am at a standstill because if I change the front timing cover, I'll have to change the tensioner, chain, gaskets, cover as it will get bent - that is $1,000 right there for parts. Then I'll have to change the damaged RMS caused by faulty PCV. Don't forget the piston rings, head gasket seal, etc. For all those parts, I am in range of an eBay used 2012-2014 motor.

So, with all possibilities of any help from Audi out-the-door, help me weigh my options. I'm leaning towards engine replacement and running this car into the ground.

1. Part-out --> time consuming and will I really be able to sell many parts?
2. Sell --> KBB for mileage and condition is ~$8K, what is value with engine in this state - $4-5K?
3. DIY engine replacement - this is not my first rodeo - I have changed and rebuilt many engines and automatic transmissions. I have a full download of erWIN manuals, so no problem there either. If I go this route, is it best to just buy a salvage wreck or a stand-alone motor from eBay/online?

I guess my big question is will I be able to use the updated motor if I can also get the ECU from the donor car? I imagine I should be able to as doesn't Audi replace the engine in Stage 3 of the oil consumption issues? I read that 2012 and newer has the consumption issues resolved, so that is what I'd be looking for.

[A4 Centaur]

Go for it!

This was done by a guy a few years ago, and don't remember the thread, then the guy just sold it after doing all the work.

However, it seemed pretty straight forward if the engine is the same Model Year? Check the harness if you can and the pin outs.

VAG com the settings and or get the ECU with the donor engine.

[lpowers]

Go for it!

This was done by a guy a few years ago, and don't remember the thread, then the guy just sold it after doing all the work.

However, it seemed pretty straight forward if the engine is the same Model Year? Check the harness if you can and the pin outs.

VAG com the settings and or get the ECU with the donor engine.

Thanks for the encouragement! I'd make sure to take pictures and videos and post a detailed DIY thread.

As it is a 2010 Model Year CAEB, I'd like to replace it with a 2012/CPMA/B or newer engine. So my question is if anybody knows if it as simple as plug-and-play or if I will need the new ECU and BCM even from the donor car? I don't care about E85 with 2013+, so if I needed to change the fuel lines for E85, I would not.

[lettuce]

I'm not going to be of much help, but I'll tell you what I do know.

The B8.5 motors are slightly different than the B8s.

There, that's it, that's all I know.

No but seriously the B8.5 and B8 2.0t motors are both gen 2 EA888 motors, but the 8.5 has E85 capabilities including (but not limited to) a new metal intake housing a 5th fuel injector, which I'd imagine would necessitate the use of a B8.5 ECU, which is different than the B8s based on the fact that tuners have different tunes for the pre- and post-facelift motors/ECUs and they're not interchangeable. Of course with an ECU swap you'll have to code out all the stuff the B8.5 has that the B8 doesn't, the biggest of which would probably be the 8-speed transmission vs the B8's 6-speed (unless you have the 6MT). I can think of about half a dozen smaller things off the top of my head as well, and I'm just imagining how much of a pain in the ass that would be if it's even possible.

Bottom-end wise these motors should be interchangeable, so since you're familiar with doing engine work it may be in your best interests to just get a B8.5 short block and transfer your top end, manifolds and everything else onto that. Might even be able to use the B8.5 cylinder head as well, which would be a good idea in case your valve seals are bad in addition to your rings. Then all you'd be doing is swapping over your intake and exhaust manifolds (assuming the bell housing bolt pattern is the same. no idea if that's the case). You could even keep your timing system intact if you do this.

[van462]

I read thru another thread as well on a motor swap and its was just the engine harness, intake manifold and likely the accessories bracket. Isn't 12 where the electric steering racks come into play and you lose the power steering pump? There are different part numbers for the lower timing chain cover but I don't know why. Maybe the accessories belt runs a little different and needs different clearances?

[lpowers]

Thanks for the replies. Van462, do you have a link to that thread you recently read?

It looks like a late 2012 MY - CPMA engine is the surest option. No oil issues, no E85, I don't mind the plastic manifold, never had an issue with the 2010 MY manifold. The new 2013 MY intake manifold still has a plastic flapper assembly anyways....

Here are some sources I've found on the swap from CAEB to CPMA/B for posterity:
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGK7ZGxloxo - comment section speaks of using existing CAEB engine harness/ecu with CPMA engine.
2. http://lovetodiyandmore.com/page8.php?category=14 - site is offline, but apparently someone documented their CAEB to CPMB longblock and re-using his accessories/engine harness/ecu.
3. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ith-newer-2013 - refers to source #2, ultimately went with a long-block CPMA engine for $3k shipped. Re-used harness/ecu/acc.

[A4 Centaur]

Yea, I would do the ECU along with whatever you decide, and plenty of us can use our VAG com to look for settings which you might need for the modules.

There was a guy from Florida as I recall that did this on the B8 A4 forums back in late 2011 early 2012 when I had gotten my Avant. He did the motor swap due to rings in his '09 and oil issues. Did a Maestro tune if I recall, then sold the darn thing?

[van462]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...highlight=caeb
This guy took his motor from an A6. Not much on details but he may be worth sending a PM. I would keep my original ECU if I was also keeping the engine harness. The engine has no modules on it that I know of, just sensors. ECU means having to deal with component protection The engine is just hardware.

[lpowers]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...highlight=caeb
This guy took his motor from an A6. Not much on details but he may be worth sending a PM. I would keep my original ECU if I was also keeping the engine harness. The engine has no modules on it that I know of, just sensors. ECU means having to deal with component protection The engine is just hardware.

Thanks for the link, PM'ed him. But if he used a CAEB from an A6, how similar is that to a CPMA or CPMB?

- - - Updated - - -

Yea, I would do the ECU along with whatever you decide, and plenty of us can use our VAG com to look for settings which you might need for the modules.

There was a guy from Florida as I recall that did this on the B8 A4 forums back in late 2011 early 2012 when I had gotten my Avant. He did the motor swap due to rings in his '09 and oil issues. Did a Maestro tune if I recall, then sold the darn thing?

Thanks for the offer - I have a VAG COM, but have only used it to disable the parking brake when changing the rear brake pads.

[MrTylerRaines]

TLDNR: Original owner, 2010 A4, bad engine, out of oil consumption warranty. Contemplating DIY engine replacement with 2012 MY+ engine. Models of donor cars? Is it plug-and-play?


Hello,

New to posting, but have been lurking for years. As the thread implies, I am the original owner of a 2010 A4 with ~100K miles and am contemplating what to do next.

History:
Car has burned oil since day 1, always told it was normal by Audi, had Stage 1 completed before the class action settlement. Never returned for 1,000 mile consumption recheck as new PCV, front crank seal, and reprogram seemed to work. Many miles later, consumption issue returned with a vengeance, and black smoke (leaky rings) under hard acceleration. When I received the settlement letter, it was past the mileage cut-off.

I doubt I would see an ounce of goodwill from Audi as I have maintained it since day 1, regular oil changes and recommended maintenance performed. Only times it was at dealer where for complimentary oil change and warranty work.

Car is leaking oil from front timing cover, rear main seal (RMS), had low-oil pressure warning if revs not kept above 1K RPM, and had recent hard stuttering at idle. Checked oil pressure with manual gauge and it was low. Removed front bumper, radiator, intercooler, etc. to get good look at front cover - cleaned all the gunk off very well and re-assembled. Huge stream of oil out of front cover after cleaning - I believe the gunk was acting as a plug for an oil leak. The PCV valve also had a large 1" tear in it - this was replaced before restarting car after disassembly.

I am at a standstill because if I change the front timing cover, I'll have to change the tensioner, chain, gaskets, cover as it will get bent - that is $1,000 right there for parts. Then I'll have to change the damaged RMS caused by faulty PCV. Don't forget the piston rings, head gasket seal, etc. For all those parts, I am in range of an eBay used 2012-2014 motor.

So, with all possibilities of any help from Audi out-the-door, help me weigh my options. I'm leaning towards engine replacement and running this car into the ground.

1. Part-out --> time consuming and will I really be able to sell many parts?
2. Sell --> KBB for mileage and condition is ~$8K, what is value with engine in this state - $4-5K?
3. DIY engine replacement - this is not my first rodeo - I have changed and rebuilt many engines and automatic transmissions. I have a full download of erWIN manuals, so no problem there either. If I go this route, is it best to just buy a salvage wreck or a stand-alone motor from eBay/online?

I guess my big question is will I be able to use the updated motor if I can also get the ECU from the donor car? I imagine I should be able to as doesn't Audi replace the engine in Stage 3 of the oil consumption issues? I read that 2012 and newer has the consumption issues resolved, so that is what I'd be looking for.

i just had mine done at 93k. have you reached out to Audi of america? or hunted down the original audi dealer that sold your car from the factory? its worth a shot. unless you have tried that. worked for me. new pistons.


Tyler

[lpowers]

i just had mine done at 93k. have you reached out to Audi of america? or hunted down the original audi dealer that sold your car from the factory? its worth a shot. unless you have tried that. worked for me. new pistons.


Tyler

Tyler, did you have regular maintenance done at a dealer? If not, were you required to show receipts of oil changes? I stopped keeping oil receipts after the first 2 years of buying Mobil 1 by the gallon at Wal-Mart.

The car is gushing oil out of the timing cover and leaking from the rear main seal. I would have to minimum replace those seals and cover before taking it to the dealer, and then have to pay for a repeat of Stage 1 consumption (already performed once for free). I'm just not sure I want to spend that money to have them deny outright or only offer to cover labor or parts. I found a 2012 motor with less than 20K miles for $3,000 shipped (without turbo, alternator, accessories) and I'm thinking of just biting the bullet.

[bluetori]

Tyler, did you have regular maintenance done at a dealer? If not, were you required to show receipts of oil changes? I stopped keeping oil receipts after the first 2 years of buying Mobil 1 by the gallon at Wal-Mart.

The car is gushing oil out of the timing cover and leaking from the rear main seal. I would have to minimum replace those seals and cover before taking it to the dealer, and then have to pay for a repeat of Stage 1 consumption (already performed once for free). I'm just not sure I want to spend that money to have them deny outright or only offer to cover labor or parts. I found a 2012 motor with less than 20K miles for $3,000 shipped (without turbo, alternator, accessories) and I'm thinking of just biting the bullet.

I would that seems like a great deal

[MrTylerRaines]

Tyler, did you have regular maintenance done at a dealer? If not, were you required to show receipts of oil changes? I stopped keeping oil receipts after the first 2 years of buying Mobil 1 by the gallon at Wal-Mart.

The car is gushing oil out of the timing cover and leaking from the rear main seal. I would have to minimum replace those seals and cover before taking it to the dealer, and then have to pay for a repeat of Stage 1 consumption (already performed once for free). I'm just not sure I want to spend that money to have them deny outright or only offer to cover labor or parts. I found a 2012 motor with less than 20K miles for $3,000 shipped (without turbo, alternator, accessories) and I'm thinking of just biting the bullet.

Thats a tough one without the receipts. Keep me posted. I'll reach out and see what i can find out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lpowers]

UPDATE:

Purchased 2013 engine (20,000 miles) for less than $2,500 shipped (without turbo, alternator, or ac compressor). After seeing the increased hp from an E85 tune, is it worth it to buy a 2013+ ECU, and maybe have to change the fuel pump to upgrade to E85? Before I didn't care about E85, but it would be nice to do a Stage 2 tune and have some extra HP. What else would have to be changed? Fuel lines?

Otherwise, I'll just sell the metal manifold and re-use my 2010 plastic manifold.

[van462]

Factor in there is an ethanol sensor (plus its harness) somewhere that determines the percentage of ethanol to adjust the ECU. Does the ECU even use the same harness connector? If if uses the same connector, running wires to the sensor wouldn't be bad for the performance advantage.

[lpowers]

Factor in there is an ethanol sensor (plus its harness) somewhere that determines the percentage of ethanol to adjust the ECU. Does the ECU even use the same harness connector? If if uses the same connector, running wires to the sensor wouldn't be bad for the performance advantage.

Looks like post #18 here addresses E85 differences with part numbers: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post10330691

[John Sharif]

Any update on the project?