Timing tensioner failure - Lucky me, 3 codes: p0011, p0016 & p0299 - Now with Pics

[zokissima]

So, did you end up ordering all of the below tools for this? Which AllData section did you follow, more or less, for this? Also, is it correct that if the only thing i want to do is to replace the timing chain and tensioner, i don't have to remove the valve cover/cam bridge?

Special tools, testers and auxiliary items required

¤ Central Valve Assembly Tool (T10352)
¤ Counterhold - Vibration Damper (T10355)
¤ Locking Pin (3 pc.) (T40011)
¤ Chain Tensioner Lever (T40243)
¤ Tensioner Locking Tool (T40267)
¤ Camshaft Locks (T40271)

[Slick_B8]

If you need any info, let me know. I have the alldatadiy that gives you most info on the entire car. Otherwise, good work!!

[Allowencer]

So, did you end up ordering all of the below tools for this? Which AllData section did you follow, more or less, for this? Also, is it correct that if the only thing i want to do is to replace the timing chain and tensioner, i don't have to remove the valve cover/cam bridge?

Special tools, testers and auxiliary items required

¤ Central Valve Assembly Tool (T10352)
¤ Counterhold - Vibration Damper (T10355)
¤ Locking Pin (3 pc.) (T40011)
¤ Chain Tensioner Lever (T40243)
¤ Tensioner Locking Tool (T40267)
¤ Camshaft Locks (T40271)

Correct, if you go through the timing chain and tensioner replacement procedure, that is all you'll need to do. I'm doing 10x more because I want to triple check everything, I'm comfortable doing so too and make sure nothing got damaged because of the failure.
I did not get this tool: Chain Tensioner Lever (T40243); this is used to take tension off of the chain once you lock the tensioner in place so you can maintain proper timing. You can accomplish this by taking the timing cover off and use a non-marking prying 'tool' of some sort to relieve the tension on the guide rail. For me specifically, my tensioner failed, I have no tension lol.

If you need any info, let me know. I have the alldatadiy that gives you most info on the entire car. Otherwise, good work!!

Thanks bud, I bought the alldatadyi one for 5 years so I got it all too. I've only needed it for the timing guidelines so I understand what I 'should' be looking for instead of trying to figure it out (which saved me hours for sure). I really need it for torque specs lol.

[Allowencer]

I've been busy the last few days so I'll summarize my current progress.

Last Wednesday night I got the cams out and then had to head to hockey. Thursday night I got the head off and started the disassembly of the head so I could take it to a guy I know who specializes in cylinder head work on Friday; it got dropped off Friday night. Onto the pictures which I know is what interests you all

Picture of the tools I purchased (details on them in page 1 of this thread):


Control cam assembly removed (this is where one of the special tools is required to remove the intake's control valve first before the whole assembly can be removed):


Here is where timing is at when piston 1 is at TDC properly:



I've read on some threads that some guys are unable to find the mark on the front timing cover for TDC. Well, it is there, but I will agree it is VERY hard to find. I had to scrub the dirt and grime off of the cover before I could see it. Here's a pic of the crank pulley's notches that line up with the TDC marking on the front cover:


Locking the intake cam sprocket with T40271/2:


Removed the exhaust cam's actuators:


Installed the camshaft pins (T40196); you insert these into those specific actuator bores and rotate the motor over by hand 4 times. This places the exhaust lobe pairings, which slide, into the appropriate positioning to prevent valvetrain damage:


Locking the exhaust cam sprocket with T40271/1, now that the cam is properly setup (per the above procedure):


With everything all setup properly, I could then remove the valve/cylinder head cover to expose the cams. The bolts must be removed from each side, outside to inside pattern to relieve the tension properly over the cams:


Cams removed:


Removed the crank pulley and then installed the crank spacer (T10368) to protect the crank's face's splines:


Front cover removed; good lord is it on with cement! Take your time and work each side and angle that you can to slowly pry the front cover away from the block; basically your breaking the seal little by little. This took me almost 10 minutes to get off so I didn't damage anything. I would also get a new front cover if you were to do this; even with my patience and working at it, I'm sure I still bent the cover a bit. Get a new one so you can guarantee a true and proper seal upon reassembly.


Head removed and pistons are exposed:


Cylinder head on a garbage bag on the floor:


Underside, valve side, of the cylinder head:

If you look closely at cylinder #1 and #2's exhaust valves, as pictured, the bottom of them, there are some nicks on them. I think there was some contact

Cam rollers removed from the head and organized:


Picture of the cylinder wall (#3) - looks good:


Damage from the slack in the timing chain (I'll bet this is what causes them to fail on other people's cars. It catches this oil drain galley in the front cover):



Now, onto the piece of sh!t that causes this:

Here is a pic of the tensioner removed from the block. I have slid the retaining snap ring off slightly so you can kinda see how it works. There's a locking plate/mechanism which is supposed to prevent the tensioner's piston from depressing, you can kinda see it in the pic:


I've removed the locking retaining ring:


That locking plate/mechanism just sits in that groove. I flipped it over - what do you guys see?:


Part number of the 'bad' tensioner:


Onto how the tensioner works (if you're unaware) and my engineering $0.02 (since I am an engineer...):
The tensioner operates hydraulically and mechanically. It is operated hydraulically when the motor is running as the engine supplies it with an oil pressure feed. This keeps constant pressure behind the tensioner's piston which holds the timing guide against the timing chain and tension on timing overall. Over time, the chain will stretch, as expected. This will cause the tensioner's piston to extrude further from it's bore.

Now, how is tensioned maintained when the car isn't running and starts right now? Well, that's the point of that locking plate/mechanism and the groves that are cut into the top of the piston. As the piston extrudes, the slides past the grooves on the locking plate. With the plate being held into place within that groove and the retaining clip on top, it should hold the tensioner's piston in place upon startup and until oil pressure is achieved where it then keeps constant pressure on the whole assembly.

Look at the 2nd picture - see the gap behind the locking plate/mechanism? This gap allows the plate to travel a little bit before the tensioner's piston is really 'held' in place. Now, imagine what happens each time you start the car, this plate travels and slams against the back wall and now 'additional' force load is added to the equation. Over time, this weakened the plate's teeth and that is how it sheered off. To add, there's maybe a depth of 0.08" on those teeth; it isn't much.

My $0.02, its not really how many "miles" but how many times you start the car as this is where the abuse occurs and causes the failure to occur.


As I mentioned above, I took the cylinder head in. It will be getting some work done; yes it's getting ported. I'm going to be doing something now that I'm in this mess.


As a side note, here is the part number and [proper] bore size if you have had 'stage 2' oil consumption issue completed:



I measured it with my caliper and it is correct. I'll prolly check the bores later on with my bore measurement tool.

[Mike@PureMS]

Your cam timing in this photo is WAY off. Assuming you have the crank at TDC, the exhaust cam should have that marking around the 12 o'clock position. The intake cam appears close, also near the 12 o'clock position, but tough to tell with that angle. I would venture to think the valves made contact at some point.

Also, there's a bracket that bolts over the end of the cam shafts. Take a close look at the engine side of that bracket, there's a very small mesh screen on the lower edge. It's a small filter for the oiling port that goes to the cam adjuster. Make sure that screen is in tact, and in good shape. We've seem some of those screens come apart, and get bits of screen jammed up in the cam adjuster.

Good luck!

[Allowencer]

Your cam timing in this photo is WAY off. Assuming you have the crank at TDC, the exhaust cam should have that marking around the 12 o'clock position. The intake cam appears close, also near the 12 o'clock position, but tough to tell with that angle. I would venture to think the valves made contact at some point.

Also, there's a bracket that bolts over the end of the cam shafts. Take a close look at the engine side of that bracket, there's a very small mesh screen on the lower edge. It's a small filter for the oiling port that goes to the cam adjuster. Make sure that screen is in tact, and in good shape. We've seem some of those screens come apart, and get bits of screen jammed up in the cam adjuster.

Good luck!

Hi Mike - yes my timing IS WAY off; that was the point of the picture LOL. Not sure if you followed the whole thread or not but my timing tensioner failed and the chain has jumped. That picture IS with #1 @ TDC. The end result is both intake and exhaust have retarded physical timing. I was lucky and major interference did not occur between pistons and valves.

Are you referring to the whole cam control assembly that bolts over both cams; you have to remove the intake's cam control valve first before the whole assembly can be removed - correct?
If so, are you referring to a small, like the diameter of a BIC pen, screen that sits within one of the oil feed holes?
If so (and batting 1.00 at this point), I know what you're referring to and good call on that. I should take a pic of that for everyone. I should add that as a part to replace during this whole rebuild.

[Demringstho864]

subscribed

[A4x]

Any idea who is the manufacturer of this damn tensioner? Is it a tier 2 supplier? Surely to cause me a headache in the future.

By the way, good thread, you surely know what you're doing....thanks for the info.

[doowopaudi]

Man, if this happens to my B8, I'll go to the dealer that performed stage 2 oil consumption repairs and tell them I requested these parts (timing chain/tensioner) changed and they said I didn't need it.

[zokissima]

Ok man, nice, you got it all apart. I just bolted my cam bridge back on this weekend, car runs great, and compression check gave me 13bar across all 4 cylinders; I think this is the time for me to pre emptively do it.

Is there a revised tensioner and what's the part number?

Can't wait until the next update, and to see what you're going to do with it.

[Allowencer]

Any idea who is the manufacturer of this damn tensioner? Is it a tier 2 supplier? Surely to cause me a headache in the future.

By the way, good thread, you surely know what you're doing....thanks for the info.

Not quite sure to be honest. Thanks - I'm here to answer any questions I can and provide something back to the community.

Man, if this happens to my B8, I'll go to the dealer that performed stage 2 oil consumption repairs and tell them I requested these parts (timing chain/tensioner) changed and they said I didn't need it.

If I'm reading your reply correctly, when you had stage 2 completed, you requested that the tensioner get changed and they said it wasn't needed!? If so... wow... that's unfortunate to hear. Technically speaking the timing chain doesn't need to be replaced. Audi stating that it should survive the life of the car, I would agree to that based on its build. There is a newer style where the links are a little more beefier. My thoughts are, you're in it this far, might as well replace it all since it's the core of the motor. You don't want to go into it 'again'.

Ok man, nice, you got it all apart. I just bolted my cam bridge back on this weekend, car runs great, and compression check gave me 13bar across all 4 cylinders; I think this is the time for me to pre emptively do it.

Is there a revised tensioner and what's the part number?

Can't wait until the next update, and to see what you're going to do with it.

What do you mean by 'cam bridge'?

There is a revised one; actually since this one there have been like 4-6 revisions I have read / found.

I believe this is the latest one; ECS carries it and I intend on getting the whole kit from them: https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...ing/ES2502522/


Tiny update:
The guy I dropped the cylinder head off to did hit me up last night to inform me they did a leak down test on each combustion chamber and 2 cylinders leaked out the intake side. Who knows if there's damage or if its the carbon build up that is causing that LOL. However, I think I've convinced myself to get a bunch of I.E. parts

[lettuce]

I'm going to be changing my valve seals this weekend and you seem to know what you're doing. I've done timing work (among just about everything else) on old small block Chevys but this seems a bit more complicated. I have all the usual tools, but am I going to need anything else? I was just planning on taking the timing cover off, marking the positions of the two cams, taking the valve cover off, cams out, change the seals and then reassemble with the cams in their previous orientation before bolting the valve cover and then the timing cover back on.

I see you used "camshaft pins" to do something with the exhaust lobes after removing their actuators. This is completely foreign to me, the lobes spin on the camshaft? What happens if I just pull the cam and put it back on? Lots of bad noises when I start it back up? Even if I crank it over by hand a few times first to check for interference?

[Allowencer]

I'm going to be changing my valve seals this weekend and you seem to know what you're doing. I've done timing work (among just about everything else) on old small block Chevys but this seems a bit more complicated. I have all the usual tools, but am I going to need anything else? I was just planning on taking the timing cover off, marking the positions of the two cams, taking the valve cover off, cams out, change the seals and then reassemble with the cams in their previous orientation before bolting the valve cover and then the timing cover back on.

I see you used "camshaft pins" to do something with the exhaust lobes after removing their actuators. This is completely foreign to me, the lobes spin on the camshaft? What happens if I just pull the cam and put it back on? Lots of bad noises when I start it back up? Even if I crank it over by hand a few times first to check for interference?

Hey bud; the basics are still the same. That's quite a job you will have then as you'll have to rip apart the whole front of the car in order to get to the tensioner, lock it in place and also to be able to relieve the tension on the timing chain.

What do you have for a valve spring compressor? Are you planning on filling up the cylinder's with air to hold the valves in place while you change the valve seals?

Those camshaft pins move the cam's cylinder lobe pairs into proper maintenance position so that you avoid piston to valve interference as well as not having to fight through a heaver lobe lift if it's engaged. Not sure if you're aware on how the exhaust cam functions on our cars, but here's a video:

The "pins" that I have, act like the cam actuators when active to move the cam lobes on the camshaft - depending on what position they are installed in.

I'm gonna send you a PM as well - I want to pick your brain on a few things

[lettuce]

Hey bud; the basics are still the same. That's quite a job you will have then as you'll have to rip apart the whole front of the car in order to get to the tensioner, lock it in place and also to be able to relieve the tension on the timing chain.

What do you have for a valve spring compressor? Are you planning on filling up the cylinder's with air to hold the valves in place while you change the valve seals?

Those camshaft pins move the cam's cylinder lobe pairs into proper maintenance position so that you avoid piston to valve interference as well as not having to fight through a heaver lobe lift if it's engaged. Not sure if you're aware on how the exhaust cam functions on our cars, but here's a video:

The "pins" that I have, act like the cam actuators when active to move the cam lobes on the camshaft - depending on what position they are installed in.

I'm gonna send you a PM as well - I want to pick your brain on a few things

Wow, awesome vid. I had been wondering how the hell the Valvelift system worked. That's pretty ingenious how they implemented it. As far as the cam pins are concerned though, isn't the Valvelift system only active at higher RPMs? So if my car was shut off idling, the cam lobes should all be on the lower-lift setting, no?

Anyway, I'm going to do this without taking the front of my car or motor apart. Well, that's the plan at least. To just do the valve seals I think I'll be able to get away with just taking the top timing cover and valve cover off. If I was going to strip the whole thing down I'd just do the entire timing job at once, but I'm not planning on doing that on this motor, even though it has 125k, because I currently have this guy just sorta hanging out in my garage.



Basically what I'm hoping to do is take that little clip-on tensioner off the top, which will give me a little bit of slack, and then after I take the valve cover/cam bridge off I'll be able to just tilt the cams forward to slip the chain off the gears. Reassembly might be a bit annoying getting everything aligned by doing that in reverse, but I should be able to get it done with the cams/chain marked with their original alignment orientation. Just have to make sure I don't drop the whole chain down into the lower compartment in the meantime.

For tools I have everything in this picture plus some Permatex anaerobic gasket maker for the valve cover.



Link to post is here for a detailed rundown of parts.

So yeah you can see I have a compressor line and fitting to pressurize the combustion chambers to keep the valves from dropping, and the Listle keeper remover/installer set has two tools, a large and small, and the smaller one is almost exactly the diameter of a quarter so I have to imagine it'll be small enough to fit in the spring valleys.

[Allowencer]

Wow, awesome vid. I had been wondering how the hell the Valvelift system worked. That's pretty ingenious how they implemented it. As far as the cam pins are concerned though, isn't the Valvelift system only active at higher RPMs? So if my car was shut off idling, the cam lobes should all be on the lower-lift setting, no?

Anyway, I'm going to do this without taking the front of my car or motor apart. Well, that's the plan at least. To just do the valve seals I think I'll be able to get away with just taking the top timing cover and valve cover off. If I was going to strip the whole thing down I'd just do the entire timing job at once, but I'm not planning on doing that on this motor, even though it has 125k, because I currently have this guy just sorta hanging out in my garage.



Basically what I'm hoping to do is take that little clip-on tensioner off the top, which will give me a little bit of slack, and then after I take the valve cover/cam bridge off I'll be able to just tilt the cams forward to slip the chain off the gears. Reassembly might be a bit annoying getting everything aligned by doing that in reverse, but I should be able to get it done with the cams/chain marked with their original alignment orientation. Just have to make sure I don't drop the whole chain down into the lower compartment in the meantime.

For tools I have everything in this picture plus some Permatex anaerobic gasket maker for the valve cover.



Link to post is here for a detailed rundown of parts.

So yeah you can see I have a compressor line and fitting to pressurize the combustion chambers to keep the valves from dropping, and the Listle keeper remover/installer set has two tools, a large and small, and the smaller one is almost exactly the diameter of a quarter so I have to imagine it'll be small enough to fit in the spring valleys.

Yeah, the video helps 'show' people 'how' it actually works. Great point and I had the same thoughts. I followed the procedure from alldata, so my guess it puts the cam into proper 'service' position so the lobes are at the lowest 'lift' point when #1 is at proper TDC. This would then put less strain and tension on the cam bridge which is holding the cams in place. This allows for ease of removal of the cover and the prevention of damage to cam journals, etc. There are 2 different procedures on that cam to place the lobes in certain positions based on what type of service you are doing. To add a little more info on it, the higher lobes, which are paired to the lower RPM/idle ones, are not in 1:1 orientation, they are degree'd advanced (I believe) a certain number of degrees. So, when piston #1 is placed at TDC, I think it places the cam into a position as I just described.

Nice short block - where'd you get that from?

Be careful of that clip on tensioner. I'll take a pic of mine when I get home later; it snapped in 2 pieces on me and I didn't even have the chain on the sprockets! I like where you're going with it; I'm not sure if that will buy you enough 'slack' to be able to free the cams or not though. You'll know when you try that's for sure. Do you have T10352 to remove the control valve out of the intake cam? If not, you wont be able to take the control valve assembly off of the cam sprockets in order to get to the cams.

Interesting valve spring tool, I haven't seen that one before. I'll have to check it out.

FYI, only use like 80-90 PSI in the cylinder; anything more is too much and anything less might not be enough if you accidentally hit a valve, you might break the air pressure and down it will go!

[lettuce]

Yeah, the video helps 'show' people 'how' it actually works. Great point and I had the same thoughts. I followed the procedure from alldata, so my guess it puts the cam into proper 'service' position so the lobes are at the lowest 'lift' point when #1 is at proper TDC. This would then put less strain and tension on the cam bridge which is holding the cams in place. This allows for ease of removal of the cover and the prevention of damage to cam journals, etc. There are 2 different procedures on that cam to place the lobes in certain positions based on what type of service you are doing. To add a little more info on it, the higher lobes, which are paired to the lower RPM/idle ones, are not in 1:1 orientation, they are degree'd advanced (I believe) a certain number of degrees. So, when piston #1 is placed at TDC, I think it places the cam into a position as I just described.

Nice short block - where'd you get that from?

Be careful of that clip on tensioner. I'll take a pic of mine when I get home later; it snapped in 2 pieces on me and I didn't even have the chain on the sprockets! I like where you're going with it; I'm not sure if that will buy you enough 'slack' to be able to free the cams or not though. You'll know when you try that's for sure. Do you have T10352 to remove the control valve out of the intake cam? If not, you wont be able to take the control valve assembly off of the cam sprockets in order to get to the cams.

Interesting valve spring tool, I haven't seen that one before. I'll have to check it out.

FYI, only use like 80-90 PSI in the cylinder; anything more is too much and anything less might not be enough if you accidentally hit a valve, you might break the air pressure and down it will go!

I got the block on eBay. The seller is a shop in Florida that parts out totaled European cars apparently. Was under $400 shipped and appears to be in great shape.

Regarding that tool, no, I don't have that. That's an absolute necessity? I guess I'll have to wait another weekend then. Unless a local Audi dealer has one lying around, I'll go check in the morning. Maybe I'll pick up an extra one of those tensioners too in case I break mine.

The valve spring tool is awesome. I haven't used one like this before but after seeing this video I had to pick one up (Fast forward to 1:00 to see it in action):

[zokissima]

I'm going to be changing my valve seals this weekend and you seem to know what you're doing. I've done timing work (among just about everything else) on old small block Chevys but this seems a bit more complicated. I have all the usual tools, but am I going to need anything else? I was just planning on taking the timing cover off, marking the positions of the two cams, taking the valve cover off, cams out, change the seals and then reassemble with the cams in their previous orientation before bolting the valve cover and then the timing cover back on.

I see you used "camshaft pins" to do something with the exhaust lobes after removing their actuators. This is completely foreign to me, the lobes spin on the camshaft? What happens if I just pull the cam and put it back on? Lots of bad noises when I start it back up? Even if I crank it over by hand a few times first to check for interference?

Just out of curiosity, since I've been following your build thread a bit, why are you changing your valve seals.

[doowopaudi]

$300 preventative job? Tell me more!

I would have gladly paid the extra cost while my stage 2 rebuild was being performed, but the service manager told me I didn't need it. Could it be that the timing chain failures on this forum are just the 1% and there's really nothing to worry about??

[englishbay]

Could it be that the timing chain failures on this forum are just the 1% and there's really nothing to worry about??

I wouldn't panic. My 2009 car is at 136k miles and I have been running the APR K04 Turbocharger system since 12k miles and most of those have been using the 100 map file on water/meth. I have only had one carbon cleaning and as far as I can tell from the symptoms, there are no problems with the timing chain. But I have been changing the oil and filter every 3-5k miles. I am considering the EFR turbo when it comes out and am at the point of deciding whether to put some money into the engine or buy a new car. New ones are so friggen expensive.

[Allowencer]

$300 preventative job? Tell me more!

I would have gladly paid the extra cost while my stage 2 rebuild was being performed, but the service manager told me I didn't need it. Could it be that the timing chain failures on this forum are just the 1% and there's really nothing to worry about??

Well they probably aren't aware that this IS an issue and it's growing. I've talked to a few other shops that specialize in Audi repairs, they see it and know about it. The chain doesn't fail, per se', its the tensioner. If the tensioner goes, the next time you start your car there will be a lot of slack that the chain will jump and catch on anything it can - this is what causes it to break.

I don't mean to be presumptuous, but what is the difference between preventative maintenance and changing/updating the timing chain? Or are they the same thing? If so, then, I'd gladly pay the dealer $1000 to fix it for me, even though they informed me I didn't need it. I just wish they would have done it anyway!

Basically the same thing. The part is bad; it's a ticking time bomb. If it wasn't, then why has there been like 6 different revisions already? If it isn't broke yet, then get it fixed and you'll have a piece of mind. If you want the updated chain and guides, etc. (i.e. all new hardware) it's an option and one I would recommend but isn't 'imperative'.

I wouldn't panic. My 2009 car is at 136k miles and I have been running the APR K04 Turbocharger system since 12k miles and most of those have been using the 100 map file on water/meth. I have only had one carbon cleaning and as far as I can tell from the symptoms, there are no problems with the timing chain. But I have been changing the oil and filter every 3-5k miles. I am considering the EFR turbo when it comes out and am at the point of deciding whether to put some money into the engine or buy a new car. New ones are so friggen expensive.

You're lucky then man. I'm telling you, you are on borrowed time. That tensioner is a time bomb waiting to fail on ya. Changing your oil regularly won't help - it's a design flaw. Read my explanation and you'll understand why.

[englishbay]

You're lucky then man. I'm telling you, you are on borrowed time. That tensioner is a time bomb waiting to fail on ya. Changing your oil regularly won't help - it's a design flaw. Read my explanation and you'll understand why.

Well with all the latest on the forum about this issue, its not helping me sleep at night. I can't get the dealer to agree that the timing chain is at the front of our engines - they say that the engine has to come out. There is so much confusion and also estimates floating around (almost sounding like the S4 supercharger update thread). My preference at the moment is to take the engine out and do the works. But then I need to budget for that and the hardest part is finding someone to do it that is reliable. In Vancouver , BC not sure who that would be.

The last dealer quote was for 15 hours to take the engine in/out.

Have you considered the Cylinder Head rebuild from Integrated Engineering?

[jfo]

Well with all the latest on the forum about this issue, its not helping me sleep at night. I can't get the dealer to agree that the timing chain is at the front of our engines - they say that the engine has to come out. There is so much confusion and also estimates floating around (almost sounding like the S4 supercharger update thread). My preference at the moment is to take the engine out and do the works. But then I need to budget for that and the hardest part is finding someone to do it that is reliable. In Vancouver , BC not sure who that would be.

The last dealer quote was for 15 hours to take the engine in/out.

Have you considered the Cylinder Head rebuild from Integrated Engineering?

Which dealer was that? I will be sure to avoid them! I've been very happy with the service/support at Capilano Audi. You could try them for a quote...ask for Dan Gyra.

[asfastas63]

$300 preventative job? Tell me more!

I would have gladly paid the extra cost while my stage 2 rebuild was being performed, but the service manager told me I didn't need it. Could it be that the timing chain failures on this forum are just the 1% and there's really nothing to worry about??

You're right I was exaggerating. It only cost me ~$300 because I insisted they do it while they were already in there for oil consumption so I don't think I was charged anything for labor. Even still a $1,000 preventative maintenance every 100k miles isn't that crazy, coming from the world of diesel VW's we had to do timing chains and water pumps every 100k with those.

You asked a good question to the OP which I'm not sure he completely understood. So once we have the new design, are we good for life? Or is refreshing the timing chain a good idea every 100k miles? I think he was saying the former, but if I make it to 200k with mine I may be inclined to have it replaced again for good measure.

[doowopaudi]

You're right I was exaggerating. It only cost me ~$300 because I insisted they do it while they were already in there for oil consumption so I don't think I was charged anything for labor. Even still a $1,000 preventative maintenance every 100k miles isn't that crazy, coming from the world of diesel VW's we had to do timing chains and water pumps every 100k with those.

You asked a good question to the OP which I'm not sure he completely understood. So once we have the new design, are we good for life? Or is refreshing the timing chain a good idea every 100k miles? I think he was saying the former, but if I make it to 200k with mine I may be inclined to have it replaced again for good measure.

I regret not insisting that the timing chain tensioner be changed while the engine was out. The service advisor did attempt to calm my fears by saying that our timing components are good until 200,000 miles. In fact, I checked the 2010 scheduled maintenance schedule and found that only the TTS and A3 need it changed at the 110,ooo or 130,ooo mile mark (respectively). The timing tensioner is not mentioned.

Still, I'd rather pay $1000 than $6000 if it means I can run my car for another 100,000 miles with a new or updated timing chain tensioner.

[zokissima]

What do you mean by 'cam bridge'?

The cam bridge, aka the valve cover on the B8.

[oshwi]

just got a quote from the dealer of $2,700 just for the labor, not including parts. Thought id ask them cause they did my stage 2 oil consumption. anyways, i quickly said thank you and have a good day. lol

[Allowencer]

Well with all the latest on the forum about this issue, its not helping me sleep at night. I can't get the dealer to agree that the timing chain is at the front of our engines - they say that the engine has to come out. There is so much confusion and also estimates floating around (almost sounding like the S4 supercharger update thread). My preference at the moment is to take the engine out and do the works. But then I need to budget for that and the hardest part is finding someone to do it that is reliable. In Vancouver , BC not sure who that would be.

The last dealer quote was for 15 hours to take the engine in/out.

Have you considered the Cylinder Head rebuild from Integrated Engineering?

Wow... I would not be taking the car there then if they don't know where the timing chain is at. My lord. However, I can confirm with them that it is 15 hours to R&R the motor. As you know though, and I'm sure that's your argument with them, the motor doesn't need to be removed; however the whole front end of the car has to come apart. You can see it all in the pics I've shared here.

Funny you mention that. I know someone who does 'very' good cylinder head work on almost any cylinder head; I trust him. I have been thinking about getting all of the springs and valves though that are offered in that head. Even if I went though my guy doing all of those options, I know I would spend less and, in my honest opinion, get the same outcome.

The cam bridge, aka the valve cover on the B8.

Gotcha - thanks for clarifying.

just got a quote from the dealer of $2,700 just for the labor, not including parts. Thought id ask them cause they did my stage 2 oil consumption. anyways, i quickly said thank you and have a good day. lol

Good lord - did you ask them how many hours they are quoting?!? As I've stated here, by the book its 6.2 hours to R&R just the main timing chain and tensioner. It's a "days" worth of work. No way is it $2,700 worth....

[oshwi]

The service advisor probably think that they need to remove the engine out to change it as well. I got a quote from an indy shop for $900. Im retty sure im going there once my refund clears. Great thread btw. Kudos on all your hard work for this forum!

[Allowencer]

The service advisor probably think that they need to remove the engine out to change it as well. I got a quote from an indy shop for $900. Im retty sure im going there once my refund clears. Great thread btw. Kudos on all your hard work for this forum!

That sounds much more reasonable. Maybe buy the parts from ECS and take it to them so you know you have all of the update gear?

Thanks

[doowopaudi]

That sounds much more reasonable. Maybe buy the parts from ECS and take it to them so you know you have all of the update gear?

Thanks

Does anyone have the link for the updated gear?

I saw this, but not sure which one it would be.
https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4...Engine/Timing/

[doowopaudi]

Looks like there may be a class action lawsuit for this in the works.

Found this link in a recent post in this thread.

I found this on the internet. This guy was also involved in the VW 1.8 engine oil sludge class action.

https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wordpress.com

[Allowencer]

Looks like there may be a class action lawsuit for this in the works.

Found this link in a recent post in this thread.

Great find and great share!

So, I called the lawyer; we talked for over an hour lol. He's gathering information and data at this point. His advise for right now, if you have failure because of this issue, document it all, keep all the receipts and if something comes along the way, we should be able to reclaim something. I would keep everything too, including the parts, if you take the car in for this service as a preventive measure.

[doowopaudi]

Great find and great share!

So, I called the lawyer; we talked for over an hour lol. He's gathering information and data at this point. His advise for right now, if you have failure because of this issue, document it all, keep all the receipts and if something comes along the way, we should be able to reclaim something. I would keep everything too, including the parts, if you take the car in for this service as a preventive measure.

I will try to get this repair done ASAP now. Thanks for calling! Thanks for creating this thread!!

[doowopaudi]

Great find and great share!

So, I called the lawyer; we talked for over an hour lol. He's gathering information and data at this point. His advise for right now, if you have failure because of this issue, document it all, keep all the receipts and if something comes along the way, we should be able to reclaim something. I would keep everything too, including the parts, if you take the car in for this service as a preventive measure.

Hey Allowencer,

Did you receive an email from the lawyer today? I received an email from him in response to the email I had originally sent him Feb 18th of this year, asking me if I was interested in being a named class representative in the class action lawsuit. I'm in the middle of replying and letting him know I am unable, since he's mainly seeking NY representative and also since my timing tensioner has not failed yet.

To anyone reading this who has had their timing tensioner fail, you may want to contact him.
https://defectiveconsumerproducts.wo...ain-tensioner/
Thomas P. Sobran
7 Evergreen Lane
Hingham, MA 02043
Tel: (781) 741-6075
Fax: (781) 741-6074
[email protected]

[Allowencer]

I forgot to add that I shared all of my research and data with the lawyer. I think I fed him a decent amount of info.

Here's some new info I have come across though; TSB's on this!
On the CCTA & CBFA motors, the first TSB came out on this tensioner design (not sure if it's the exact same part number though); TB-15-11-04, dated 12/22/2011

Over a half a year later, a new one came out that superseded the previous one; new one: TB-15-12-01, dated 7/23/2012.

Here's the description on the latest TSB:
VOLKSWAGEN: ALL MODELS EXPERIENCE THE TIMING CHAIN SLIPPING, RATTLING NOISES OF THE ENGINE AFTER STARTING, AND ENGINE FAILS TO START. 2008-13 ALL MODELS. *PE


EDIT: Looks like I might have just confirmed that it IS the SAME tensioner. Check this out, someone from the VW forum posted the oil tensioner that fails in the 2.0 TSI:
http://www.eurodrivers.ca/forums/sho...l=1#post284813
Pic of that tensioner (old one is on the right):

Pic of the tensioner from my car:


Gee.... same damn part number....

[oshwi]

So if theres a tsb on these, they should be done by dealers right?

[Allowencer]

So if theres a tsb on these, they should be done by dealers right?

That't the thing, the TSB doesn't call out our motor code (CAEB). It's the other motors; however, its the same damn timing tensioner (per my findings above). Not sure what anyone/everyone can do to try and raise awareness on this to Audi. Maybe hit up AoA?

[jfo]

This makes it even more surprising that they didn't add this part to the list of components to replace during stage 2 repairs. Perhaps they didn't want to draw more attention to it.

[oshwi]

oh wow, thats messed up. theyre probably hoping that it fails after 100k miles so they can just wash their hands of it. anyways, i just dropped my car of to get the tensioner updated. was quoted $1700 for all the railings and chain all together. just had them do the tensioner. figured it should hold me till 200k miles.

[Jerry1847]

Yo, I have a set of IE valve springs if you want to do a crazy upgrade. I got them and then got lazy. One of those while you in there jobs. Lemme know if you need them.