KW EDC Cancellation Kit + Mag Ride + Coilovers - any shop/manufacturer want to help?

[will13k7]

By now there have been multiple instances of folks still getting error codes when attempting to run coil-overs on an S3 equipped with Mag Ride, even after installing the KW EDC Cancellation Kit (68510370).

KW thinks their kit is operating correctly and that the height sensors are getting out of range due to lowering the car. One of the faults is with the Ride-Height Sensor, but there is another fault for the Valve for Damping Adjustment. It's possible the height-sensor being off is also causing the other fault, but who knows for sure.

KW could be right and we need to fabricate a part to put the height sensors back in range or find some way to disable the ride-height sensors via VAG-COM. Until this is done, it seems the ball is in our court (the customers) to prove that this is or isn't the issue.

Are their any Tuner shops or Product companies willing to fabricate a part to get the height sensors back in range? If this fixes the issue, I would think this would be a sellable part that anyone with mag-ride who wants coils would need, but I'm no expert in regards to this.

When the error is thrown, traction control can not be disabled or won't stay disabled, this is the main issue, other than the annoying and embarrassing errors that get thrown on the dash, which also blocks out other content from being shown (radio station/song).

Codes:

Address 14: Susp. Elect. (J250) Labels: 8V0-907-376.clb
Part No SW: 8V0 907 376 E HW: 8V0 907 376 E
Component: DAEMPFUNGS-SG H09 0072
Serial number: 280115000
ASAM Dataset: EV_AudiMagneRide 002003
ROD: EV_AudiMagneRide_AU37.rod
VCID: 43855E16CA62FA260B-8016

5 Faults Found:
2117646 - Front Left Ride-Height Sensor
C1034 07 [008] - Mechanical Failure
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 238
Mileage: 4804 km
Date: 2015.08.28
Time: 08:48:42

3149829 - Valve for Damping Adjustment Front Left
C1040 1D [008] - Current Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 238
Mileage: 4826 km
Date: 2015.08.28
Time: 10:46:16

3153925 - Valve for Damping Adjustment Front Right
C1041 1D [008] - Current Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 238
Mileage: 4827 km
Date: 2015.08.28
Time: 10:46:48

3158021 - Valve for Damping Adjustment Rear Left
C1042 1D [008] - Current Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 239
Mileage: 4894 km
Date: 2015.08.28
Time: 16:01:15

3162117 - Valve for Damping Adjustment Rear Right
C1043 1D [008] - Current Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 248
Mileage: 4894 km
Date: 2015.08.28
Time: 16:01:23

Code thrown after aggressive cornering:


Dash indicator, goes away after shutting off the car and turning it back on:


Front Height Sensors (Green Part):



Rear Height Sensors (Green Part):




I get these errors multiple times a week, I don't even have to get that aggressive in the corners, and sometimes just with braking.

Hopefully a tuner shop/manufacturer can help out us enthusiasts here.

[phillyquattro]

The fact that KW thinks their kit is operating correctly is absurd. These are coil over kits, the vast majority of people buy them to lower their cars. How was this not considered by them when creating the kit? Did they think people are just going to upgrade to coil overs and then keep their cars at the stock ride height? If so why doesn't KW mention ride height requirements in their own description of the product?

In KW's own words:

KW Cancellation Kits
Cancellation kits eliminate persistent trouble codes that exist when upgrading a suspension on a vehicle with electronically regulated dampers.
KW is the only manufacturer that offers the solutions whereby the serial damper regulation is shut down and at the same time trouble code avoided. The functioning of the of the control unit remains completely intact.

I feel like they've basically stolen money from me by selling me a product that doesn't do what they said it does.

If someone created a product to resolve the issues that KWs product doesn't I'd be all over it.

[coolwater]

The fact that KW thinks their kit is operating correctly is absurd. These are coil over kits, the vast majority of people buy them to lower their cars. How was this not considered by them when creating the kit? Did they think people are just going to upgrade to coil overs and then keep their cars at the stock ride height? If so why doesn't KW mention ride height requirements in their own description of the product?

In KW's own words:



I feel like they've basically stolen money from me by selling me a product that doesn't do what they said it does.

If someone created a product to resolve the issues that KWs product doesn't I'd be all over it.

That's terrible man. I'm thinking there has to be a way in Vagcom to do a mag ride delete.
We need someone like DavidB8 to crack the vagcom coding....

-cW

[Benji00]

Subscribed ! Thank you for starting this for us.

[will13k7]

Same codes for phillyquattro's car:

Address 14: Susp. Elect. (J250)
...

2 Faults Found:
3149829 - Valve for Damping Adjustment Front Left
C1040 1D [008] - Current Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 81
Mileage: 688 km
Date: 2015.11.30
Time: 17:12:21

3153925 - Valve for Damping Adjustment Front Right
C1041 1D [008] - Current Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 4
Reset counter: 81
Mileage: 688 km
Date: 2015.11.30
Time: 17:11:58

[phillyquattro]

With the car sitting at it's new ride height it takes me a while longer to throw a suspension error...but I still throw them nearly every time I drive the car. :-(

[will13k7]

^^ that's good info, it adds support to the ride-height sensors playing a role.

I'm thinking the higher your car, the harder you have to drive to throw a code, since you need to compress your suspension more to get the sensors out of range.

I would think those with mag-ride + h&r supersport springs would have a similar issue though, but we haven't heard from anyone with this combo having issues, so this still makes me think the KW EDC delete kit is to blame somehow, at least until someone with SS + mag-ride throws codes too.

[velodb]

Again, as I have noted many times before and I will keep saying it when I see stuff like this. Firstly, I feel badly for you both to have to deal with this. You paid top dollar to what is perceived as a "reputable" company only to have to deal with codes like this. When they say "kits/suspension/part" specifically designed for a platform and end users have these issues it is CLEARLY not specified for the platform. They threw some stuff together and now you the end user have to deal with this and hope that somebody else will pry into your wallet for a solution.

When will people start holding these vendors accountable? I guess that is wishful thinking because most people just run out and throw their money at these vendors in the hopes that the end product will deliver what has been promised and they MOSTLY don't.

Good luck and I hope you both get a favorable solution to spending the sums that you have only to be reminded of it and having a stupid code and warning come up. That would drive me crazy and as I have gotten older I guess is the main reason I look for cars that deliver what I want from the manufacturer as I am over throwing my money away and having to spend time and energy to fix it.

People just don't deliver on what they say anymore and that is what is wrong with our society on so many levels.

[phillyquattro]

I created posts about this on VW Vortex in the MKVII Golf/GTI and MKVII Golf R forums. Curious to see if other MQB platform owners are experiencing the same issues we have.

[Oreganoflow]

I posted the answer in the GolfR forum in response to this - here.

I had the same problem after installing the KW DCC Coilovers, the problem is because your ride height sensors are beyond their operating capability with the car being considerably lower than intended. I shortened the sensor arms by 10mm and the problem is fixed. I can almost guarantee this will fix your problem. email me with any questions as I don't use this board - [email protected]

[949]

I'm curious, if you install just springs that are low. will that cause the error codes to come up?

[will13k7]

Thanks @Oreganoflow!, this sounds really promising. good idea branching out to the other MQB models philly!

Looks like we have to buy the whole assembly if we mess them up:

http://www.audiusaparts.com/audi/s3/...position=right
http://www.audiusaparts.com/audi/s3/...&position=left

not too bad, apparently they are used for the headlight leveling.

[phillyquattro]

I posted the answer in the GolfR forum in response to this - here.

I had the same problem after installing the KW DCC Coilovers, the problem is because your ride height sensors are beyond their operating capability with the car being considerably lower than intended. I shortened the sensor arms by 10mm and the problem is fixed. I can almost guarantee this will fix your problem. email me with any questions as I don't use this board - [email protected]

Thanks so much for the suggestion. Going to give this a shot.

[Stam4765]

I have a KW cancellation kit in my car (not coils, air ride) and the fault is pretty much gone, but it does show up every once in a while. When i turn the car off and on again it goes away. I'll post the codes if it happens again, curious to see if its the same code for coils. I also want to try a few different heights to see if i can force a fault that way.

[phillyquattro]

That's why don't get MagRide LOL

If you want black optics (which for me was a requirement) you can't avoid it.

[phillyquattro]

Sent the details about the "fix" to 034 and made an appointment for Wednesday. Unless they recommend against this "fix" I'll let you know what happens.

[will13k7]

[phillyquattro]

You and me both. The downer is that I leave for the east coast this weekend and likely won't have much time (if any) to test the "fix". So don't expect any solid feedback from me for a while.

[will13k7]

I'm in direct communication with KW now. There appears to have been a miss-understanding with 034's last email to KW, which is why we did not get a response from them. They now have indicated:

... we cannot suggest to cut, weld, or bend any parts on your vehicle that we have nothing to do with.

I replied quoting their product literature which indicates:

Cancellation kits eliminate persistent trouble codes that exist when upgrading a suspension on a vehicle with electronically regulated dampers.

I then mentioned that their current solution does not eliminate persistent trouble codes, and asked if they can offer any solutions.

I'm awaiting their response.

[phillyquattro]

I'm in direct communication with KW now. There appears to have been a miss-understanding with 034's last email to KW, which is why we did not get a response from them. They now have indicated:



I replied quoting their product literature which indicates:



I then mentioned that their current solution does not eliminate persistent trouble codes, and asked if they can offer any solutions.

I'm awaiting their response.

After talking with 034 they told me "we're not bending any sensor arms". However they did say they may have figured out a way to recalibrate the height sensors and if that fails we'll create new mounting points for the sensors. Both those ideas sound far better than bending the sensors.

[will13k7]

After talking with 034 they told me "we're not bending any sensor arms". However they did say they may have figured out a way to recalibrate the height sensors and if that fails we'll create new mounting points for the sensors. Both those ideas sound far better than bending the sensors.

lol @ "we're not bending any sensor arms", I didn't like that idea either. The metal will likely fatigue. That's cool 034 is looking for more solutions now (I didn't think it really was their problem, awesome that they are helping out)!

The KW folks got back to me pretty quickly, they asked me to fill out a "Tech Sheet" which includes things like ride-height. They also indicated they will pass this information off to senior advisors for further review.

It's nice that folks are helping out more now.

It would be awesome if the solution was just a software configuration change via VAG-COM.

[phillyquattro]

lol @ "we're not bending any sensor arms", I didn't like that idea either. The metal will likely fatigue. That's cool 034 is looking for more solutions now (I didn't think it really was their problem, awesome that they are helping out)!

The KW folks got back to me pretty quickly, they asked me to fill out a "Tech Sheet" which includes things like ride-height. They also indicated they will pass this information off to senior advisors for further review.

It's nice that folks are helping out more now.

It would be awesome if the solution was just a software configuration change via VAG-COM.

It would be so good if the solution is just software config related.

Want to loop some of us into the discussion with KW? Not sure how you're communicating with them but I'm happy to fill out a tech sheet as well. Figure the more details we give them, and from more people, the better chance we have of them resolving things from their end.

[will13k7]

It would be so good if the solution is just software config related.

Want to loop some of us into the discussion with KW? Not sure how you're communicating with them but I'm happy to fill out a tech sheet as well. Figure the more details we give them, and from more people, the better chance we have of them resolving things from their end.

I emailed them directly this time around, here's the tech sheet they would like us to fill out:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x2obx5w6qk...et%20.pdf?dl=0

I would be happy to email everyone's tech sheet to KW, or you can follow the approach I took by emailing them directly via this webform: http://www.kwsuspensions.com/contact/customer

[[email protected]]

Not having an 8V with magride here to play with it's hard to say, but I would suspect if you can do a basic setting for the ride height after lowering any of the level sensor codes should go away.

The level sensors have a basic setting where they "know" the factory ride height. When this goes out of range for the sensor, thinking you've broken something or the sensor is faulty, by lowering you'll get codes from the level sensor. You should be able to do a basic setting on the sensors as they are and the car will then "know" that the height the sensor is at now is the new normal.

The other valve codes should be what the EDC kit gets rid of. So if you still have those then something isn't working right with those emulators.

Cheers,

[will13k7]

Thanks for that insight Alex!

[phillyquattro]

Just got back from 034 earlier today. Their opinion (at least for my car) is exactly what Alex said in regards to if you're getting other errors beyond ride height (dampening) then the emulators aren't working correctly. In my case I've only gotten dampening errors on the front corners and no ride height errors. So I need to talk to KW and see if I can get another kit from them as the working theory is my front emulators aren't working but the rears appear to be. I had them fill out the KW tech sheet as it relates to my car.

So the hunt continues....

[Oreganoflow]

just bend the damn arms. it takes all of 20 minutes to pop them out, bend them -10mm and pop them back in.

it fixes the problem. if you're worried, they're like $15 each from the dealer.

you guys are making this way too complicated.

[will13k7]

you guys are making this way too complicated.

haha, maybe. We'll see, bending is last resort right now.

[Oreganoflow]

there is no other resort. kw is going to keep giving you the run around. their product is only going to work to a certain limit of low. beyond that and you're on your on. it's clearly stated in the installation manual of their coils.

bend the damn arms and thank me later.

[phillyquattro]

there is no other resort. kw is going to keep giving you the run around. their product is only going to work to a certain limit of low. beyond that and you're on your on. it's clearly stated in the installation manual of their coils.

bend the damn arms and thank me later.

Bending the arms won't actually fix anything for me as I'm not getting ride height related errors. My issue are with dampening errors being thrown on just the front two corners. The rear corners seem to be fine so the assumption is that the emulators on my front corners aren't working correctly. I'm working with KW to come to a solution but with holiday travel and what not it will be a while before I have any updates and even longer till I have a resolution.

[Oreganoflow]

that's exactly the error. this is what i got and it hasn't shown up since i fixed it. it's only for the front arms. the rear can't be bent as it's plastic. i think they engineers knew what they were doing by making the fronts aluminum and adjustable.

i've already been through everything you're going through and i'm trying to save you the hassle.

I can forward you probably the same responses from kw.

[will13k7]

that's exactly the error.

Thanks Oreganoflow! I'm still hopeful all the codes are related to the front height sensors. I will probably end up bending them myself after I hear back from KW indicating they can't help any further and when it stops raining!

There's a reason why 034 won't bend them and why KW won't recommend doing this, it's because its a crude hack. Kind of sucks to do that to a 50K car, but it is what it is if it comes to that.

[phillyquattro]

that's exactly the error. this is what i got and it hasn't shown up since i fixed it. it's only for the front arms. the rear can't be bent as it's plastic. i think they engineers knew what they were doing by making the fronts aluminum and adjustable.

i've already been through everything you're going through and i'm trying to save you the hassle.

I can forward you probably the same responses from kw.

Do you have the specific error codes you were getting? Also if the bending hack only works for the front dampeners how will that help get rid of the rear dampening issues Will is receiving? I haven't thrown any rear ones on my car yet so it doesn't much matter to me personally but I am curious.

[will13k7]

My hope is the height sensors are playing some type of role in triggering the "Valve for Damping Adjustment" error on all four corners, for example, maybe the height value is used somehow to interpret the damping's current value. Then when the height sensors go out of range this screws up the damping calculation. Maybe wishful thinking, but not unproven yet.

I sent KW my tech sheet this morning, now they have two examples to work off of. Still hoping they come up with something novel.

[WAF]

Hey guys just lurking around and seen this as i'm interested in an S3 for future. This is my take on it as an electrician, I have the ADS error kit (more or less resistors) myself but have not had any issues but my car is older and different model.

So if you start your car and no error the kit is working correct (to a point) as once you turn on your car without the KW you should automatically receive a code as you circuit resistance is way out. The adjustable height arm is an ancillary contact within that circuit, kind of like an secondary check valve. Which when Under/Over limit is exceeded this is what is signaling the code. So I'm my mind there's 2ways on getting this corrected.

1- Adjust said height of control sensor within limits of your current height which will be tedious and time consuming. Everytime you change height this will have to be done again.

2-KW adds another circuit connection to the height control sensor omitting any input from this sensor.

[Oreganoflow]

My hope is the height sensors are playing some type of role in triggering the "Valve for Damping Adjustment" error on all four corners, for example, maybe the height value is used somehow to interpret the damping's current value. Then when the height sensors go out of range this screws up the damping calculation. Maybe wishful thinking, but not unproven yet.

I sent KW my tech sheet this morning, now they have two examples to work off of. Still hoping they come up with something novel.

*sigh

[RingNut]

Lol.

If you're worried about bending your arm, buy a second one and have a fab shop cut it down for you.

[will13k7]

Here's KW's response:

Looking at the information provided the issue he is experiencing leads right back to his ride height sensors.

It would make since that the front height sensor is the only axle throwing a code as this is the only axle that is outside the range of our coilover system. I mention our coilovers because they were designed to work within the range of the car travel limitations whereas the kit he has allows the vehicle to go beyond those parameters. Point being, our kits will not allow the front sensor to become out of range whereas the kit Will has does. As mentioned in previous messages, and having been confirmed also by our engineers in Germany, when the height sensors reach a value that is “out of range” it subsequently triggers damper codes in the ECU thinking that there is something wrong with the dampers since they have allowed the car to go that low, and reach that value. It literally has nothing to do with the EDC units themselves.

There isn’t much more support we can provide at this point unfortunately. If Will would raise the front end of his car up 5-10mm his issues should be alleviated, if the wishes to keep the car at the current height, he will have to modify his front link in some way to bring the height sensor back into a useable range, plain and simple.

The part about KW's coilovers not allowing the height sensor to go out of range is interesting since Oreganoflow is running KW coilovers on a Golf R. Their statement also is confusing since I've shown them rear suspension codes too, but those code's were before I raised the rear and I haven't pulled codes since, so maybe I don't have rear codes anymore and they are just going off my car's current ride height in the rear.

This part below matches what I've been thinking all along:

when the height sensors reach a value that is “out of range” it subsequently triggers damper codes in the ECU thinking that there is something wrong with the dampers.

Disappointed no other solution can be provided, but they are not obligated to come up with one. I didn't think the delete kit itself wasn't doing what it should since I would have codes all the time, but I hoped they could have came up with something else given their engineering expertise.

I would prefer replacing the metal arm connecting to the front sensor with a fabricated adjustable part, but I kind of doubt anyone would be willing to make that.

I'll probably end up bending the front arms since I hate wheel well gaps and there's no way I'm raising it.

[will13k7]

I went ahead and pulled some codes to see if raising the rear did get rid of the rear codes. I raised the rear on 9/17/2015, a rear code was thrown on 11/6/2015, so I guess I'm still not high enough in the rear, but I actually was thinking of going 1/8" lower in the rear, so its not likely I will raise it.

Address 14: Susp. Elect. (J250) Labels: 8V0-907-376.clb
Part No SW: 8V0 907 376 E HW: 8V0 907 376 E
Component: DAEMPFUNGS-SG H09 0072
Serial number: 280115000
ASAM Dataset: EV_AudiMagneRide 002003
ROD: EV_AudiMagneRide_AU37.rod


2 Faults Found:
3153925 - Valve for Damping Adjustment Front Right
C1041 1D [008] - Current Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 5
Reset counter: 169
Mileage: 9450 km
Date: 2015.11.19
Time: 17:21:25

3158021 - Valve for Damping Adjustment Rear Left
C1042 1D [008] - Current Implausible
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 156
Mileage: 8836 km
Date: 2015.11.06
Time: 17:05:11

I guess bending the front won't solve the problems I have in the rear, so fuck it. I'm guess I'm living with the codes.

[markn1689]

That is total crap. Id throw that kw shit straight into the garbage. Put stock back on and forget it ever happend.
whoever sold you that kit sucks as well