Split Decision Black Friday Turbo Upgrade - Need opinions (F23L, CTS K04, APR K04)

[Smellie]

Because it's black friday and there are sales, I've suddenly decided it's time to upgrade the turbo

I've done a ton of reading and the following pro's and con's are what I gathered from reading forum posts. If you have any input on yourself, please give me your opinion!


I don't plan on keeping this car for more than 25-30k more miles. It's currently sitting at 35k

Frankenturbo f23L

Pros:
1.Cheaper (2300$ with tune)
2. More power? (Not really sure about this but lettuce has the best 1/4 time)
3. Access to maestro, MBC

Cons:
1. Reliability? I've read through every F23L thread I could find and there are so many split reviews.
2. More tuning needed



CTS Turbo K04

Pros:
1. On sale for $2040 ($2540 with APR K04 tune
2. ?

Cons:
1. ?

I didn't read much on the CTS kit on reliability.



APR K04

Pros:
1. Probably most reliable
2. I have APR stage 2 so I get the loyalty program

Cons:
1. Still the most expensive at 3000$
2. Least power?



I would continue to read up on more, but I want to take advantage on the CTS k04 sale if that is the best option.

Thanks for reading, I'll gladly take any reviews and/or opinions on what I should do

[b6Hate4]

All ko4 kits have the same turbo, made in the same factory. Franken turbo does seem to be hit or miss, if its your daily driver I would stick to a BW ko4. Grab the turbo and then buy the tune separete. The turbo can be found for ~1500 if you look hard enough.

[Chanman94]

The CTS K04 needs their HFC or testpipe to bolt onto the turbo (idk why this is the case). So take that into pricing consideration for that kit. Haven't actually seen anyone on this forums run that either though. Iirc, they have it tuned by unitronic, whom are very conservative on the power it makes.

[ParadigmTony]

I am basically running option 2. I will say that in terms of turbo, like stated they are all made in the same place. The difference is in the compressor cast. CTS uses an interesting weld on fabrication. However it doesn't affect anything and cannot be seen, so its irrelevant mostly. The Frankenturbo is certainly the cheapest. However I have 3 people I know who have ran them, and all three blew the turbo. So take it as you will, its why I didn't go that route. Dollar for Dollar, option 2 wins in power and reliability. Or wait a couple months and Ill sell you a CTS K04 with 1100 miles on it...

[ParadigmTony]

The CTS K04 needs their HFC or testpipe to bolt onto the turbo (idk why this is the case). So take that into pricing consideration for that kit. Haven't actually seen anyone on this forums run that either though. Iirc, they have it tuned by unitronic, whom are very conservative on the power it makes.

My kit, came with the test pipe, and I believe all the kits do. I run APR software with it 100oct file, no problems. 1100 miles no error logs to report. Did have to upgrade coils and plugs of course and DV+ is super recommended.

[Smellie]

Very very tempted to get the ctsko4

May I ask why you'll be taking it off Paradigm?

[inception]

Because it's black friday and there are sales, I've suddenly decided it's time to upgrade the turbo

I've done a ton of reading and the following pro's and con's are what I gathered from reading forum posts. If you have any input on yourself, please give me your opinion!


I don't plan on keeping this car for more than 25-30k more miles. It's currently sitting at 35k





Frankenturbo f23L

Pros:
1.Cheaper (2300$ with tune)
2. More power? (Not really sure about this but lettuce has the best 1/4 time)
3. Access to maestro, MBC

Cons:
1. Reliability? I've read through every F23L thread I could find and there are so many split reviews.
2. More tuning needed



CTS Turbo K04

Pros:
1. On sale for $2040 ($2540 with APR K04 tune
2. ?

Cons:
1. ?

I didn't read much on the CTS kit on reliability.



APR K04

Pros:
1. Probably most reliable
2. I have APR stage 2 so I get the loyalty program

Cons:
1. Still the most expensive at 3000$
2. Least power?



I would continue to read up on more, but I want to take advantage on the CTS k04 sale if that is the best option.

Thanks for reading, I'll gladly take any reviews and/or opinions on what I should do

For the extra money go with APR. worth the money for less headache. reliability and peach of mind... totally worth it for the extra $500.
i have modified so many cars and i have decided after so many issues. just the cost or replacing the turbo is worth the quality and reputed company..

[auditd0rk]

Been running the CTS K04 since Jan 2014 w/ the APR K04 tune -- never an issue. My kit came with the test pipe, but I ended up going back and buying the HFC because I just couldn't deal with the smell with the test pipe.

I've been very happy with the kit and tune -- track days are a blast! Latest dyno day on the 93-octane map:

[Shimmy]

I'd go with APR just for the "one stop shop" ease of hardware and tune. Also not very impressed with the CTS weld on structure. I'm just too meticulous to rock something that looks like an 8yr old boyscout weld job.

[auditd0rk]

I'd go with APR just for the "one stop shop" ease of hardware and tune. Also not very impressed with the CTS weld on structure. I'm just too meticulous to rock something that looks like an 8yr old boyscout weld job.

Oh come on, the welds don't look that bad.

[Shimmy]

^ ok you're right... at least those welds look fine. The one posted in a previous thread looked gawd awful.

[auditd0rk]

^ ok you're right... at least those welds look fine. The one posted in a previous thread looked gawd awful.

You raised a good point with going with a "one stop shop". By time you calculate in the cost of the APR K04 tune (I thought I read it's quite expensive now), you're probably back at the APR kit price. Likely much easier to deal with warranty work, too, when you only have one company in the mix.

[o1turbo30v]

skip the k04 and wait for apr's efr kit to come out next year.

[ModdedEuros]

You could go with the CTS kit now and than flash with Unitronic via Uniconnect at home. Takes like 20min to flash

We have been moving a bunch of Uniconnect lately as you will see less and less people going to shops anymore

More info on Uniconnect if you want to check it out
https://www.moddedeuros.com/products...tool-uh008-tla


We also have the CTS k04 kits
https://www.moddedeuros.com/products...09-14-a5-10-14

[Smellie]

You raised a good point with going with a "one stop shop". By time you calculate in the cost of the APR K04 tune (I thought I read it's quite expensive now), you're probably back at the APR kit price. Likely much easier to deal with warranty work, too, when you only have one company in the mix.

It's 2540$ vs. 3000$ for APR.

Still pretty significant. If i was calculating non-sale prices, $2850 vs $3000 for APR, I'd just go with APR.

[Smellie]

skip the k04 and wait for apr's efr kit to come out next year.

I only plan on keeping this car until spring/summer of 2017. I'm not sure if I want to dump 5k$ into the kit.

[Shimmy]

It's 2540$ vs. 3000$ for APR.

Still pretty significant. If i was calculating non-sale prices, $2850 vs $3000 for APR, I'd just go with APR.

in the big picture, whats an extra $500 for a well polished kit and IMO, less hassles with issues if they arise since its all APR product.

[lettuce]

http://www.turbozentrum.de/en/turbos...ifold/a-32000/

Do it. Leave these K04s in the dust.

[o1turbo30v]

I only plan on keeping this car until spring/summer of 2017. I'm not sure if I want to dump 5k$ into the kit.

Then why but money into it at all?

[Smellie]

Then why but money into it at all?

When the EFR comes out, I'm gonna want people to have long term use feedback. By the time that happens, it'll already be trade in time.

There's also not too many people running high HP numbers for this car, and I don't want to spend more money after getting the kit on other supporting mods that can't handle the massive amount of power.

K04 is pretty proven already and at a pretty good price point where I can enjoy the car for another year without too much worry

[Smellie]

http://www.turbozentrum.de/en/turbos...ifold/a-32000/

Do it. Leave these K04s in the dust.

That just scares me.. What would the tuning solution for that be?

Maestro + Custom tune?

[b6Hate4]

Why are people waiting for APR to come out with their EFR kit before you consider it an option?

The turbo is RIGHT THERE for the buying, and you could have a shop tune it much better than APR ever could. Stop hanging off APR's nuts.

And dont even say "its a plug and play soloution" even APR's setup can not be plug and play when it comes to a turbo of that magnitude. It will still require logging and revisions to get the available performance, thats just how big turbos are.

[homelessNY_LI]

Why are people waiting for APR to come out with their EFR kit before you consider it an option?

The turbo is RIGHT THERE for the buying, and you could have a shop tune it much better than APR ever could. Stop hanging off APR's nuts.

And dont even say "its a plug and play soloution" even APR's setup can not be plug and play when it comes to a turbo of that magnitude. It will still require logging and revisions to get the available performance, thats just how big turbos are.

You're not considering the pedal responce

[blbroo]

Why are people waiting for APR to come out with their EFR kit before you consider it an option?

The turbo is RIGHT THERE for the buying, and you could have a shop tune it much better than APR ever could. Stop hanging off APR's nuts.

And dont even say "its a plug and play soloution" even APR's setup can not be plug and play when it comes to a turbo of that magnitude. It will still require logging and revisions to get the available performance, thats just how big turbos are.

I need to bookmark this touching sermon. In the book of Split Decision, chapter 23, paragraph 2 and verse 2, we see some beautiful life guidance.

A+ brother Zach

[b6Hate4]

Hahah, thanks Brian.

People need to realize that with a big turbo, in order to make it "apr plug and play" quality, they sacrifice over 100-150 horsepower. Their gt28rs kit for the older models only made 330hp...on a 400+hp turbo all in the name of being plug and play.

Now if paying a premium for THAT is not moronic, I dont know what is.

[Smellie]

http://kmdtuning.com/audi/a3/2-0t-fs...tml?catId=1268

Anyone know about this turbo?

[chawaba]

Amen!

Why are people waiting for APR to come out with their EFR kit before you consider it an option?

The turbo is RIGHT THERE for the buying, and you could have a shop tune it much better than APR ever could. Stop hanging off APR's nuts.

And dont even say "its a plug and play soloution" even APR's setup can not be plug and play when it comes to a turbo of that magnitude. It will still require logging and revisions to get the available performance, thats just how big turbos are.

[Shaph]

http://kmdtuning.com/audi/a3/2-0t-fs...tml?catId=1268

Anyone know about this turbo?

You are better off with an EFR6758, the borgwarner turbo is much more advanced than the Garrett GT series. (not the GTX)

[Operator]

Why are people waiting for APR to come out with their EFR kit before you consider it an option?

The turbo is RIGHT THERE for the buying, and you could have a shop tune it much better than APR ever could. Stop hanging off APR's nuts.

And dont even say "its a plug and play soloution" even APR's setup can not be plug and play when it comes to a turbo of that magnitude. It will still require logging and revisions to get the available performance, thats just how big turbos are.

I wonder why more people didn't look at dame drizzo's EFR as a success? He had his a couple years ago. From the looks of it, he didn't seem to have any issues.

[b6Hate4]

I wonder why more people didn't look at dame drizzo's EFR as a success? He had his a couple years ago. From the looks of it, he didn't seem to have any issues.

Because people swing off APR's nuts and as far as they are concerned, if APR didnt come out with it, it doesn't exist.

AKA people with more money than sense. The same type of person who comes to a new platform and blindly follows the big conglomerate company with big money advertising, who even after proven decietful (RSC anyone?), they CONTINUE to blindly trust that this company will only release the best version of a product possible.

Its hard to understand, I know. But thats "new model" Audi demographic for ya. GO APR!

[lettuce]

Because people swing off APR's nuts and as far as they are concerned, if APR didnt come out with it, it doesn't exist.

AKA people with more money than sense. The same type of person who comes to a new platform and blindly follows the big conglomerate company with big money advertising, who even after proven decietful (RSC anyone?), they CONTINUE to blindly trust that this company will only release the best version of a product possible.

Its hard to understand, I know. But thats "new model" Audi demographic for ya. GO APR!

lol, same people who give me shit for making posts like this:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11218347

Or maybe I'm just an asshole. Could be a little bit of both.

"Look just because you drive a fast car doesn't mean you have to be mechanically inclined about it."

[b6Hate4]

lol, same people who give me shit for making posts like this:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11218347

Or maybe I'm just an asshole. Could be a little bit of both.

"Look just because you drive a fast car doesn't mean you have to be mechanically inclined about it."

Lol, exactly. Generally when you own a car like that, you find yourself taking on repairs that are incrementally more difficult until you find yourself standing in a bay with no engine in it and , while the front end and whole rad support is in your living room. It's just the way it goes.

But nowadays we here in the b8 section wait until APR comes out with a solution to simply bolt in and go and never have to pop the hood again. God forbid. That is until the b9 comes out, of course.

[ParadigmTony]

Very very tempted to get the ctsko4

May I ask why you'll be taking it off Paradigm?

Bigger Turbo.

I'd go with APR just for the "one stop shop" ease of hardware and tune. Also not very impressed with the CTS weld on structure. I'm just too meticulous to rock something that looks like an 8yr old boyscout weld job.

You see none of the welds, and the welds actually aren't the eyesore, its the entire output. However its out of site and for the money saved worth it.

skip the k04 and wait for apr's efr kit to come out next year.

Because he's comparing 2k turbos, not 4k turbos.

Why are people waiting for APR to come out with their EFR kit before you consider it an option?

The turbo is RIGHT THERE for the buying, and you could have a shop tune it much better than APR ever could. Stop hanging off APR's nuts.

And dont even say "its a plug and play soloution" even APR's setup can not be plug and play when it comes to a turbo of that magnitude. It will still require logging and revisions to get the available performance, thats just how big turbos are.

Along comes zach again. Why do we always have this conversation. Lets be brutally honest with the whole community. We do not want them going BT on their own with a custom tune. Have you read half of the b8 threads daily? Do you know how many face palm moments these people will provide? "Rough idle on startup on cold weather. Help?!?!" "Weird laggy feeling when I hit the throttle. Its like theres nothing there, then it all a sudden takes off" "Help, can't keep plugs in my car. I have to replace plugs every oil change" Should I keep going? The APR kit (tbd) will be the absolute best possible option for 98.98% of this forum. Can the EFR make more power on a custom tune? Yeah, Im sure I could get close to APR's Expected EFR output on the K04. Doubt it would last long, but still possible. Assuming APR is as capable as they say, Im 100% here for the convergence of drivability vs raceability that their kit should provide. Ive had way too many stand alone cars to do it again at my age lol.

[b6Hate4]

Along comes zach again. Why do we always have this conversation. Lets be brutally honest with the whole community. We do not want them going BT on their own with a custom tune. Have you read half of the b8 threads daily? Do you know how many face palm moments these people will provide? "Rough idle on startup on cold weather. Help?!?!" "Weird laggy feeling when I hit the throttle. Its like theres nothing there, then it all a sudden takes off" "Help, can't keep plugs in my car. I have to replace plugs every oil change" Should I keep going? The APR kit (tbd) will be the absolute best possible option for 98.98% of this forum. Can the EFR make more power on a custom tune? Yeah, Im sure I could get close to APR's Expected EFR output on the K04. Doubt it would last long, but still possible. Assuming APR is as capable as they say, Im 100% here for the convergence of drivability vs raceability that their kit should provide. Ive had way too many stand alone cars to do it again at my age lol.

My post was not to exclusively compare what I believe APR's kit will produce HP wise, vs. what the turbo is capable of. I'm not arguing with any part of your post at all. My above post, and all recent posts regarding this issue (and the reason you had to say "here comes Zach again") is I'm just saying..hey....maybe SOMEONE could have an original thought. Something different. This platform is so cookie cutter. There are 50+ turbos sitting on shelves just waiting to be bolted on to this engine, but, unless it has APR's magical stamp on it..who cares?

I could type out a lot more, but at the end of the post I would have repeated the same shit over and over.

[ParadigmTony]

My post was not to exclusively compare what I believe APR's kit will produce HP wise, vs. what the turbo is capable of. I'm not arguing with any part of your post at all. My above post, and all recent posts regarding this issue (and the reason you had to say "here comes Zach again") is I'm just saying..hey....maybe SOMEONE could have an original thought. Something different. This platform is so cookie cutter. There are 50+ turbos sitting on shelves just waiting to be bolted on to this engine, but, unless it has APR's magical stamp on it..who cares?

I could type out a lot more, but at the end of the post I would have repeated the same shit over and over.

Ok fair enough. Slow clap. I 100% agree with you on originality. I also agree that this platform doesn't exactly draw motor heads, but seemingly fringe enthusiasts. I wish more than anything someone takes this fucking efr standalones it, and makes 500whp so I can point and say thats basically my car... I just don't have the time, effort, or interest in keeping the car long enough to justify the creativity. But to support your point, it doesn't even require that much creativity. The hardware is right there, learn to tune your car and log it, and get a custom tune done. Just hopefully you enjoy maintenance..

[b6Hate4]

Ok fair enough. Slow clap. I 100% agree with you on originality. I also agree that this platform doesn't exactly draw motor heads, but seemingly fringe enthusiasts. I wish more than anything someone takes this fucking efr standalones it, and makes 500whp so I can point and say thats basically my car... I just don't have the time, effort, or interest in keeping the car long enough to justify the creativity. But to support your point, it doesn't even require that much creativity. The hardware is right there, learn to tune your car and log it, and get a custom tune done. Just hopefully you enjoy maintenance..

See that's one thing I find crazy, that APR will de-tune the EFR so very drastically just to avoid the extra maintenance of actually having an EFR (while making it basically a ko4+) that it is worth the premium cost to people....thats a paradox if I ever heard one.

[The Infiltrator]

Sub'd

[Smellie]

Most likely purchasing a CTS Turbo K04 tomorrow since APR has 10% off their software until the end of the year.

Hopefully the place i got Stage 2 done will make the Stage 2 - K04 software cheaper, since I paid 150$ to go from Stage 1-2.

[Finder]

https://www.unitronic-chipped.com/ec...hwtsiavsk04kit
Is anyone using the K04 kit from Unitronic? Or at least their K04 tune?
I'm planning on getting a K04 for my B8 next year and I'm tempted to get at least the software from them (their complete kit is not bad though) as I am very happy with the K04 tune I have on my A3.
But I can't seem to find any reviews or anyone who has their K04 tune on B8s.

[zokissima]

https://www.unitronic-chipped.com/ec...hwtsiavsk04kit
Is anyone using the K04 kit from Unitronic? Or at least their K04 tune?
I'm planning on getting a K04 for my B8 next year and I'm tempted to get at least the software from them (their complete kit is not bad though) as I am very happy with the K04 tune I have on my A3.
But I can't seem to find any reviews or anyone who has their K04 tune on B8s.

I have yet to meet or hear of anyone running the Unitronic system. They're right around the corner from me, but I passed it up. I think quality wise, it's probably the best kit currently available on the market. However, you'll pay for that, and especially when you consider that their tune puts out significantly less power than other K04 tuning options available.

Still,, I hear you. They were my first choice too in trying to keep it local, but financially, it just didn't add up.