My first build thread and 6th set of turbos

[Bische]

Those are the only numbers Daz gave me, I didn't want to just guess at an awtq number. Either way, my questions still need answers...

My bad, CEL.
Trying to get some info for my build.

I am with you on this one, stock heads if you arent planning to turn it higher than around 7200. But say you have a 2.8 setup and turn over 8000rpm - the peak power could be signifigant higher without stressing the bottom end any further.

At 450wtq there is about 85whp gain by raising the peak by 1000rpm.

I am myself targetting 450awtq on my VRT, and my ambition is to hold that out to 7000rpm ��

Some more stuff showed up today.

Things that are on their way/will be ordered next week.

1000s
modded 450 pump
85 mm hpx maf housing and maf
arp main studs (need to tear the block down to see which ones I need)
TTV steel fw
8 button disk
All bearings are on their way now as well as oem head bolts, new TOB, maybe some other shit I forgot I ordered.

Love the parts pile

[Audi9]

With that clutch/flywheel combo what are you planning to spin the engine to?

[Drehmoment]

What is modded on the 450 ?

[CELison]

Relay is modified.
Clutch - b5rs4 pp, srm 8 button disk, ttv steel fw

[Monty23]

do you mean relief valve is modified?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

1. The blocks ability (or inability) to handle that power.

Daz estimated 550-600awhp on the setup as it is. From what I've read, that power can destroy a block. Since I (&CEL) don't want to go with a girdle , I don't understand why I would try to squeeze extra power out of it if the block is already at risk.

2. 2.8 heads are supposed to help keep power at higher rpms.

If I'm not upgrading the valvetrain to take advantage of the higher revs, how do 2.8 cams benefit me?

These are legitimate questions, relax.

1. Too much reading, not enough doing, there are 700-1000hp 2.7T's out there doing their thing. The whole cracked block thing is being blown out of proportion JMO.

Let's all remember these turbos aren't going to be able to flow large amounts of air at a high PR and RPM anyway, but that doesn't mean you cannot optimize the flow anyway. 2.8 heads will flow more everywhere, along with the more aggressive NA camshafts and the bigger turbos you're looking at gains no matter what.

2. No 2.8 heads flow more in general, the more aggressive NA cams will give you more mid-range and top end due to the flow and cam profile. You can take advantage of all this even if you keep the (near) stock rev limit without having to build the valve train (even though it would really just mean you need exhaust valves, springs + retainers).

BTW I'm very relaxed, but there seems to be a general disconnect between what bigger port heads will actually do for a properly sized setup. Big port heads + cams don't just mean you only gain in the top end, especially with the mild OEM 2.8 cams.

[02nms4]

Nice build CEL, ive got a very similar build going on, I already purchased a pair of junkyard 2.8 heads, took them in to a local audi specialist to go through them, he said my heads have some sort of e oil piping that sits above the camshafts with brittle plastic pieces that needs to be replaced. I was just curious approx. how much power gain should we see with these turbos/ e85 setup over 2.7 heads?

[Zba]

No 2.8 heads flow more in general, the more aggressive NA cams will give you more mid-range and top end due to the flow and cam profile. You can take advantage of all this even if you keep the (near) stock rev limit without having to build the valve train (even though it would really just mean you need exhaust valves, springs + retainers).

BTW I'm very relaxed, but there seems to be a general disconnect between what bigger port heads will actually do for a properly sized setup. Big port heads + cams don't just mean you only gain in the top end, especially with the mild OEM 2.8 cams.

Can the exhaust valves just be swapped from a 2.7 to a 2.8 head?

[y3ti]

1. Too much reading, not enough doing, there are 700-1000hp 2.7T's out there doing their thing. The whole cracked block thing is being blown out of proportion JMO.

Let's all remember these turbos aren't going to be able to flow large amounts of air at a high PR and RPM anyway, but that doesn't mean you cannot optimize the flow anyway. 2.8 heads will flow more everywhere, along with the more aggressive NA camshafts and the bigger turbos you're looking at gains no matter what.

2. No 2.8 heads flow more in general, the more aggressive NA cams will give you more mid-range and top end due to the flow and cam profile. You can take advantage of all this even if you keep the (near) stock rev limit without having to build the valve train (even though it would really just mean you need exhaust valves, springs + retainers).

BTW I'm very relaxed, but there seems to be a general disconnect between what bigger port heads will actually do for a properly sized setup. Big port heads + cams don't just mean you only gain in the top end, especially with the mild OEM 2.8 cams.

I like that answer better than your first. Thank you for that. I have this exact build going on, pretty much part for part, so any info on better options is appreciated.

[Drehmoment]

do you mean relief valve is modified?

I think he means power it by a independent power source triggered by a relay

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Can the exhaust valves just be swapped from a 2.7 to a 2.8 head?

Yes then can, and you MUST swap the exhaust valves from the 2.7 head into the 2.8 head as the keeper location is different on the valves themselves and you will not have as much seat pressure which you need for forced induction if you keep the stock 2.8 stuff.

[Zba]

That's good info. The 2.7 valves are sodium filled correct? Are the 2.8 not?

[y3ti]

That's good info. The 2.7 valves are sodium filled correct? Are the 2.8 not?

Ya. Sodium filled is needed for the higher EGTs of the 2.7

[RocksForsSale]

What's this with the seat pressure? So you have to replace all the valve train of your 2.7 to the 2.8? Or just exhaust valves themselves?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kingkhalilz]

just exhaust, valves should be kept from the 2.7. The groove for the keeper is lower on the valve to induce a tighter valve in general. Both 2.8 and 2.7 exhaust are sodium filled. If you hold the valves side by side you wont miss it. The intake valves are all the same.

[CELison]

Dropped the block off at the machine shop. I'm going to skip the heads for now. When I do heads I'll build 2.8 ones so I can rev it out. I need to calm down a little with the spending. I still have to order maf, maf house, 1000s, fuel pump, flywheel, and motor mounts. Rod, main and thrust bearings showed up today. Just placed my order for arp main studs. They are different length if anyone was curious.

[Zba]

You can always upgrade springs and retainers later for not that much extra effort if the heads are already on it.

The last motor I built (vr6) I kept the bottom end stock because of $$ but as soon as it was on the road I was kicking myself for not going 3L. The cost added was not that much more that I couldn't have absorbed it.

Just saying. It sucks getting everything back together and then feeling like you missed out.

[CELison]

I don't think I'm not going to feel like I missed out. When it's back together and tuned on E it should be much faster than it was.

[Audi2.7what]

I don't want to chime in I tend to come off as a dick but everything is set in play nothing to be scared of. This build will turn out to be a healthy 550+ whp weekend car it's being done right, and that's all that matters.

[CELison]

^ and once it's dialed in were going to run it from a dig to redline in 6th down rt 22.

[Zba]

I don't want to chime in I tend to come off as a dick but everything is set in play nothing to be scared of. This build will turn out to be a healthy 550+ whp weekend car it's being done right, and that's all that matters.

Whoa! No need to be a dick! Jesus, calm down

[Zba]

Goddam phone, that was meant to be followed by a "lol"

[FlyboyS4]

2.8 heads will flow more everywhere,

More does not equate to better.

[Audi2.7what]

^ and once it's dialed in were going to run it from a dig to redline in 6th down rt 22.

Exactly lmfao

[Audi2.7what]

More does not equate to better.

Exactly K04 applications it can slow spools down but for something RS6 size, and up where you see full boost near 4000 rpms your power band is better shifted to the right anyways. The benefits of the cam click with 2.8 cams if tuned properly will yield more usable power.

[rani_aridi]

Wanted to ask, do your waste gate actuators on the K24's touch the housing slightly? Not a huge deal but I was wondering if it was just me...

[csre9]

sweet build mane, cant wait to throw down again

[CELison]

My wg actuators do no touch the housings. Side note: 85mm maf tube, maf, and filter are still up for sale. Everything else has been sold. The downpipes actually went on another car today.

[02nms4]

My wg actuators do no touch the housings. Side note: 85mm maf tube, maf, and filter are still up for sale. Everything else has been sold. The downpipes actually went on another car today.

quick question, noticed your selling a 85mm maf tube for I'm guessing the hitachi mac. I'm doing a very similar build and was gonna buy a 85mm housing, what are you going with?

[kingkhalilz]

Celison, i dont want to clutter ur thread but i am curious about the relay for the walbro 450. What specifically did you or planning to do, because I think the stock relay gets pissed if you have other items running off it also.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

More does not equate to better.

Out of context comment is well... out of context.

2.8 heads ARE better than 2.7 heads especially when feeding more and more CFM through them. Just like bigger manifolds are better after a certain point.

I know you love your data, and your little pea shooter turbos but if you ever man up and get something on your car that really flows you will see that every place you can reduce a restriction will give you an advantage and very, rarely if at all a disadvantage.

[stuklr]

^ and once it's dialed in were going to run it from a dig to redline in 6th down rt 22.

Where on 22 in that part of the state can you top out 6th???!!

[CELison]

450 with pressure mod. Will use stock wiring to activate a relay and using heavy gauge wire from the batt. And anywhere on 22. I have a video of me doing to from an overpass actually. But there's no shortages of long straight highway by me.

[CELison]

quick question, noticed your selling a 85mm maf tube for I'm guessing the hitachi mac. I'm doing a very similar build and was gonna buy a 85mm housing, what are you going with?

85mm hpx. But you should buy my maf tube and maf obviously

[CELison]

Where on 22 in that part of the state can you top out 6th???!!

here

[FlyboyS4]

Out of context comment is well... out of context.

2.8 heads ARE better than 2.7 heads especially when feeding more and more CFM through them. Just like bigger manifolds are better after a certain point.

After a certain point being an important distinction to make, or are you saying that with my pea shooter turbos I'll see better performance everywhere by switching to a 2.8 head?

I know you love your data, and your little pea shooter turbos but if you ever man up and get something on your car that really flows you will see that every place you can reduce a restriction will give you an advantage and very, rarely if at all a disadvantage.

Why not use data, there's an abundance of bad advice that floats around these forums. People giving advice and failing to fully qualify what they're saying, i.e. you.

[CELison]

Ok enough about heads.

[jaychen]

85mm hpx. But you should buy my maf tube and maf obviously

daz tuning your hpx 85mm setup?

[CELison]

daz tuning your hpx 85mm setup?

yeah most likely.

[landfill]

Yea Flyboy your talking to someone who tunes big turbo/power cars for a living.
No one gives a shit about your k03's and your flowbench.