A4 B5 quattro: next evolution - time for fun

[spindoctor]

It will be worthwhile. Trust me. The transient response is stupid(in a very good way).

[genecan]

While we have a fullstop on the engine, due to holliday delays, I could not resist on upgrading further the brakes:


















Thus I will have 345 mm discs at the fronts and 300 mm at the rears. I could not go bigger in a 17", so no more brake upgrades for me. Probably will buy some good pads from QFM, I just need to choose the correct compound.

[genecan]

[genecan]

[ray4624]

Plastigauge was the most tedious part of my build by far.

Looks like it's coming along nicely!


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[genecan]

I am having troubles with the berings of the intermediate shaft. Does anyone know a set of tools to do the change? So far I only encounter homedesign tools and nothing you can buy. VAG tools ARE an option if someone get me number.

[genecan]

After this tremendous input on the tools we forced ourselves to invention (as we found such kits had been custom made before):

[IMG][/IMG]

Tried to grind the gear on the IM shaft. Just to let you know - THIS IS NOT ENOUGH:

[IMG][/IMG]

[genecan]

After the shaft was grinded as we thought appropriately we found this:


So, there was some impact there. Thus we decided to shave of the edge of the rod - like a dent, and aditional slight shave of the shaft (may be for a third time...) and we got this:

[Avant Nate]

Probably wouldn't have happened with IE rods
Whats the thickness of the intermediate shaft gear?

[genecan]

Probably wouldn't have happened with IE rods
Whats the thickness of the intermediate shaft gear?

All types of rods, IE or not, could have caused an impact of this type as the reason was the insufficient shave of gear length.

At the end we finished with a touch less than 8 mm of gear left on the shaft and it is more than what I usually see as examples of machined IM shafts for other stroker projects. This was the major point - to leave as much as possible from the gear.

[chris164935]

Is that last picture the clearance left after grinding? If so, it doesn't look like you'll have any room for heat expansion...

[genecan]

Everything taken into account. I was told by my builder, whom I trust very much for many many reasons, the IM shaft actually is pushed slightly away from the rod side under load.

[ray4624]

All types of rods, IE or not, could have caused an impact of this type as the reason was the insufficient shave of gear length.

At the end we finished with a touch less than 8 mm of gear on the shaft and it more than what I usually see as examples of prepared IM shaft. This was the major point - to leave as much as possible from the gear.

New i.e. Rods which are 144x20 "drop in" don't require machining of im gear.


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[Avant Nate]

New i.e. Rods which are 144x20 "drop in" don't require machining of im gear.


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All rods require intermediate shaft machining on strokers. I.E. rods do not currently require machining on 1.8's, but they did a few years ago.
My attempted joke reference was just a call back me suggesting just standard IE rods over the Tuscans.

[ray4624]

Ah I forgot it was a stroker build


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[genecan]

All rods require intermediate shaft machining on strokers. I.E. rods do not currently require machining on 1.8's, but they did a few years ago.
My attempted joke reference was just a call back me suggesting just standard IE rods over the Tuscans.

No Tuscans, they're Pauter.

[zandrew]

When I saw the plastic age at .050 I almost shit myself thinking it was .050 inches!!! Lol...

I noticed your piston to wall clearance is listed at .0024". Even for 4032 that still seems aweful tight.i would double check the math on it.

I am doing a similar style build except mine is going to be a 6758 efr. Can't wait to join the fam.

[genecan]

When I saw the plastic age at .050 I almost shit myself thinking it was .050 inches!!! Lol...

I noticed your piston to wall clearance is listed at .0024". Even for 4032 that still seems aweful tight.i would double check the math on it.

I am doing a similar style build except mine is going to be a 6758 efr. Can't wait to join the fam.

Funny right?!?

But according to Mahle official papers it should be 0.0010 to 0.0018, so we intentionally overbored

[zandrew]

That's crazy, wiseco pistons are 4032 and they are .0025" but are a smaller bore diameter at 82mm.

[genecan]

Mahle powerpack actually is NOT 4032, but M142. That is a quote from elsewhere: "Mahle 142 Aluminum Alloy - Used in most of the Mahle Powerpack line of pistons and is the alloy that VW uses in their OEM pistons. This is a combination of 4032 and 2618 alloys. There is no ISO designation for this alloy"

But even if they were 4032 the clearance is the same 0.0010 to 0.0018 - for reference the official Mahle Motorsports Application Guide 2016 - http://www.us.mahle.com/media/motors...compressed.pdf

Look at p. 19

[zandrew]

Oh I belive you, I don't believe you would be trying to destroy your engine before you got it to go. It's just weird to me is all.

[genecan]

Well, I just decided to post this info as these seems to be popular pistons, but there is a great deal of confusion regarding clearance.

[KTaP]

Wait i noticed in your original post full of parts that you posted a RS4 tranny, is that possible with the aeb 1.8l engine? Sorry this is only my 2nd audi so im still learning, switched from honda

[genecan]

Wait i noticed in your original post full of parts that you posted a RS4 tranny, is that possible with the aeb 1.8l engine? Sorry this is only my 2nd audi so im still learning, switched from honda

Are you for real? You asked such a question? What happened to the community these days, I guess everybody moved to newer platforms or even to other car brands. This defines me as an old guy... sadly.

For the sake of the project: I decided to stay with DSY gearbox, nexts moths upgrading with T3. I need to update this first post, other changes in concept also occurred.

[genecan]

Some current corrections in the first post done.

After the IM shaft was shaved enough we installed it with the new IM shaft bearings bought from Rosten Performance. Unfortunately when we tried to turn the shaft there was somehow significant resistance. Fortunately I did not like the bearings when I first saw them and bought "for just in case" another set from IE. We decided to ditch the first ones and installed the IE bearings. Although there was still some resistance with the new bearings it was nothing like before.

Following is a saga regarding installation of a girdle kit - again bought from Rosten Performance.

Looking at this:





... and taking into account the variable and unknown change in length when tightened we quickly realized this is no joke to install. We could not bring the spacers to a machine shop to grind as we did not know how much to shave. And even if we new this would change after tightening the studs. We might have ended up with 9827653573409 walks to the machine shop spending $7835948623752 on this issue.

Although I was not happy with it we had to do what we did next.

After almost three weeks of wait this was installed in the shop:

[chris164935]

Yikes! Good luck. Hopefully, you're able to get it right. Don't want to warp the girdle because the spacer was too tall or too short.

[ray4624]

Some current corrections in the first post done.

After the IM shaft was shaved enough we installed it with the new IM shaft barings bought from Rosten Performance. Unfortunatelly when we tried to turn the shaft there was somehow significant resistece. Fortunately I did not like the bearings when I first saw them and bought "for just in case" another set from IE. We decided to ditch the first ones and installed the IE bearings. Although there was still some resistance with the new bearings it was nothing like before.

Following is a saga regarding instalation of a girdle kit - again bought from Rosten Performance.

Looking at this:





... and taking into account the virable and unknown change in length when tightened we quickly realized this is no joke to install. We could not bring the spacers to a machine shop to grind as we did not know how much to shave. And even if we new this would change after tightening the studs. We might have ended up with 9827653573409 walks to the machineshop spendeng $7835948623752 on this issue.

Although I was not happy with it we had to do what we did next.

After almost three weeks of wait this was installed in the shop:

Probably a stupid question but do you have all the rod caps pointing in the correct direction on the correct rods? I know with i.e. Rods the tang orientation has to be correct. I flipped a cap on mine and had some resistance. Started over with new bearings, rematches the caps to rod and everything spun freely.


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[genecan]

I have no problems with rod bearings.

[ray4624]

I have no problems with rod bearings.

I read that completely wrong. You were talking main later in the post and I thought it was rotating assemble resistance.

I think my mind is still on vacation lol


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[genecan]

Remember this picture from earlier?



These are the main studs. Yes, these are ARP.

The girdle kit that came from Rosten Performace contained a zip-lock bag with studs and a yellow STICKY NOTE - "65Nm". A quick reference showed the caps should be tightened a little north of 80 Nm. So, according to Rosten Performance I should put a girdle plate to hold the caps of the main bearings in place at larger engine loads, but at a decreased torque specs?!?!? WTF...

OK, ditched the Rosten studs, got ARP. Lets see what follows...

[genecan]

It looks like photobucket scrapped my nicely compiled thread. Does anyone now how to fix it?

Anyway, there was a little hold (as usual with those builds), but now it is back on the line. The damage of the previous engine was worse (of course!) than expected actually the rod that made damage to the block on its way put managed to break the transmission bell, F***, I loved my freshly installed 01E. The engine and transmission are out.

The new engine is assembled. The transmission is going for major rehab + heart transplant (T03 going in baby... :). Images to follow...