Fun With Cam Chain Adjusters. What's your speculation??

[old guy]

If yours must be replaced I would either go with an honest to goodness OEM one (very $$) or go with ryanj's recommendation that he linked in post #26. He has apparently replaced a lot of them and so far found the Hudson brand to be OK.

[BlazinB5]

If yours must be replaced I would either go with an honest to goodness OEM one (very $$) or go with ryanj's recommendation that he linked in post #26. He has apparently replaced a lot of them and so far found the Hudson brand to be OK.

i'm thinking i might just replace the pads and see what happens, since mine only makes noise for the first 5 seconds on startup (in freezing temps), but the hudson brand will definitely be my other option.

If the adjuster fails in the "TDI clanking sound" mode, I don't think replacing the pads will fix it. It is some sort of internal wear, I believe.

If you have a unit (OEM or aftermarket) with worn pads that is not clanky, and is not throwing codes, I would absolutely advise sticking with it and just refreshing the pads. It seems these aftermarket units can go wrong a lot of different ways. And even with warranty replacements, it is pretty annoying changing the same part several times.

mine makes some noise on startup (in freezing temps) for probably 5 seconds and then goes away. what do you think? probably just pads?

[old guy]

If the only symptom is a rattle on cold starts then yes I think it would be worth trying a pad replacement first. Pads plus gaskets should be no more than $50.

[walky_talky20]

FWIW, I've noticed that my rattle on startup happens much more often when my oil level is less than full. So I might also suggest some Rotella T6 5w-40 and topping off to "max fill" to see if that helps.

[texasboy21]

What do you guys think of this? $180 for a supposedly OEM unit.
http://www.europaparts.com/cam-chain...58109088k.html

I installed that CCT about 2 months ago.

[BlazinB5]

If the only symptom is a rattle on cold starts then yes I think it would be worth trying a pad replacement first. Pads plus gaskets should be no more than $50.

excellent, so that's what i'll be doing for now. pads, plus gaskets. which gaskets does that include? valve cover gasket, and cam chain tensioner gasket?

FWIW, I've noticed that my rattle on startup happens much more often when my oil level is less than full. So I might also suggest some Rotella T6 5w-40 and topping off to "max fill" to see if that helps.

oil level is full, and i just did an oil change (i also use rotella t6). still does it, so i'm guessing something needs to be replaced.

I installed that CCT about 2 months ago.

i think i might just try replacing the pads for now. what else did you change while you were in there? valve cover gaskets?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201122065672

[old guy]

Wear pads, valve cover gasket and cam adjuster gasket set. All you will need.

[walky_talky20]

^What, no whiskey? lol

[gotboost]

Wear pads, valve cover gasket and cam adjuster gasket set. All you will need.

No cam seal? Can you slide in those pads without pulling the tension?

[walky_talky20]

Not the bottom pad. To change that one, the tensioner needs to come out. You will need the tool to compress the tensioner. They are cheap on ebay.

You can leave the cam seals alone. One additional item you will need is some RTV sealant for the corners of the VC gasket as well as to reseal the front dual cam cap.

[old guy]

Oops! Forgot about the compression tool. I have my own already. And as Walky pointed out you can leave the cam seal alone if it isn't already leaking. I've had my cams out three times and still have the original front cam seals with no leaking at all.

[Wet0willy01]

My 01 was doing the same thing. PO installed this VVT and I'm unsure of the manufacturer. Blamed it on my low oil pressure issues I was having previously but it came up again with my new shortblock in the car. I've gone 2 days now without it coming back so maybe this post will bring jinx it. Hopefully not.

[Toolaa]

FWIW, I've noticed that my rattle on startup happens much more often when my oil level is less than full. So I might also suggest some Rotella T6 5w-40 and topping off to "max fill" to see if that helps.

How to read a dipstick DIY. I love this! I'm going to steel this image and make a poster for my guys who drive my company trucks.

The'll drive these things into the ground and the only time they will tell me something is wrong is when either the radio or AC stops working.


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[Trev]

FWIW, I've noticed that my rattle on startup happens much more often when my oil level is less than full. So I might also suggest some Rotella T6 5w-40 and topping off to "max fill" to see if that helps.

Replaced my tensioner 2 years ago, got the "TDI clank" at start up not even a year after. Switching from Mobile1 0w-40 to Rotilla T6 5w-40 did nothing for me in regards to sound. But it did help quite a bit with oil consumption during changes.

My tensioner just fully pooped the bed. Really loud "TDI clank" in around the 2k rpm range when driving cold or hot.

I was just about to pick up ECS's kit http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4-....8T/ES2770536/ and a new chain to be sure. But now second guessing that thought. Its is a good price, but not if i have to replace it again in a few months...

[CoreyRS]

Ive been doing some research on this the past couple of days....and sure enough all the OG's got it figured out in clear technical detail. Thanks guys!

Re: Replacing the pads due to cold startup rattle...

How are the pads attached? Any idea what is actually causing the rattle? Im hesitant to remove the CCT completely (aprehensive about touching the cams).

[old guy]

The wear pads are simply flexed and pressed on. I installed mine by hand. You may have to break the old ones off. They tend to get brittle with age. I was able to flex one off and had to break the other one. Removing the intake cam is no big deal. I'm getting pretty good at it lately. Here are a few tips for getting the job done:Clicky click

[daught]

I wonder, other than the pads, what goes wrong in the OEM tensioner. Since it seems to loose oil pressure, could it be just a seal that needs to be replaced?

[walky_talky20]

I agree, it seems like they are leaking off oil pressure. This evidenced by them only clanking at hot idle. At higher revs or when cold they have plenty of pressure to keep up with the leak.

I think the problem may be wear in the adjuster cylinder bore, although I can't confirm this. I lean toward this conclusion because the adjusters seem to go into clanking failure mode more often on cars with previous oil pressure issues. And I've seen them fail soon after a single low oil pressure event (ie: "finishing off" the adjuster). Just my speculation though.

[daught]

I really wish I had one to dissect before I just order one.

[old guy]

I really wish I had one to dissect before I just order one.

I had my OEM one apart and there really wasn't anything to rebuild. What I found interesting was the spring in the replacement adjuster was at least twice as strong as the OEM one. My replacement one was significantly scarred on the piston and bore as shown in Post #32

[daught]

Oke so what causes the OEM to rattle?

[old guy]

Oke so what causes the OEM to rattle?

My speculation would be low oil pressure, worn pads, wear between the adjuster piston/cylinder bore or a clogged screen on the oil supply port.

[daught]

In what condition was the piston and bore in your OEM tensioner? How's your oil pressure?

If my oil pressure is within spec, but I get a rattle, I wonder if it's a better idea to just replace the pads. I don't get any codes so the actuator is working properly.

[old guy]

In what condition was the piston and bore in your OEM tensioner? How's your oil pressure?

If my oil pressure is within spec, but I get a rattle, I wonder if it's a better idea to just replace the pads. I don't get any codes so the actuator is working properly.

Pads are cheap so it's worth taking a gamble if you don't mind the possibility of doing it twice. You can take a look at the top pad without removing the cam adjuster. Unfortunately the lower pad is the one that wears the fastest. The amount of wear shown below was not enough to cause a rattle.

[daught]

I re-read the thread. You mentioned the replacement had a damaged piston/bore and a stronger spring. I doubt it, but maybe the spring on the original weakens over time? Maybe the replacement spring had the right tension but the scratches caused it to stick.

I can't see the OEM tensioner piston/bore wearing out in 100k miles.

[old guy]

I re-read the thread. You mentioned the replacement had a damaged piston/bore and a stronger spring. I doubt it, but maybe the spring on the original weakens over time? Maybe the replacement spring had the right tension but the scratches caused it to stick.

I can't see the OEM tensioner piston/bore wearing out in 100k miles.

I wish I had taken the time to measure the spring wire gauge diameter between the OEM and replacement one. Unfortunately I didn't. My personal opinion is that the replacement one was not produced to the OEM specs. From my personal experience two replacements gave me trouble and the OEM one is working fine after 200k miles (and of course the new pads).

[audireme]

When you cold start the engine the cam adjuster is activated so you should see the activated range of somewhere between 16° and 25°. I had a reading that was bouncing around 12° to 14°. I let the car idle until the adjuster deactivated and the cam angle only dropped to 10°. This pretty much confirmed my suspicion that the cam adjuster was sticking.

So your adjuster was active at cold start, but then deactivated at warm idle? I have a code for incorrect correlation on my 04 1.8t (17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28), P1340 - 002 - Incor. Correlation) and checked MVB 91. On both cold start and warm idle mine was off and around -1°. Same thing on my two other 1.8t's, both AWM though. It does activate at higher RPM's and is around 20°. So is it supposed to be active at cold start?

[BlazinB5]

interestingly enough, my cam chain noise has gone away lately. it used to only make noise upon cold startup, and only when it was below freezing outside. now lately it has been starting at nearly 0 degrees (Fahrenheit) and it doesn't make noise anymore. really weird...

[Trev]

Replaced the tensioner a few days ago.

When i pulled it out it literally fell apart. Pad/piston assembly along with some internal parts fell right out...

[walky_talky20]

That is normal. The chain holds it together. That is why they usually ship with the tensioner tool installed - to keep them in one piece.

[old guy]

So your adjuster was active at cold start, but then deactivated at warm idle? I have a code for incorrect correlation on my 04 1.8t (17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28), P1340 - 002 - Incor. Correlation) and checked MVB 91. On both cold start and warm idle mine was off and around -1°. Same thing on my two other 1.8t's, both AWM though. It does activate at higher RPM's and is around 20°. So is it supposed to be active at cold start?

Yep. Read section 2.1.3 Clicky click

[daught]

Wow, less than my oil... seems legit http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=141095673890

[Steve Bassen]

Wow, less than my oil... seems legit http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=141095673890

That's a non-VVT tensioner...

[daught]

Sarcasm really doesn't show on the internet. I have no intention to get it. I stumbled over it and found it funny. I was looking for a busted original tensioner to dissect.

[Steve Bassen]

Ahh, totally missed the sarcasm, sorry! :p

[daught]

I went on a 5000 km trip from toronto to key west with my tensioner rattling the whole way. In charlotte NC I changed to 5-40 rotella from 0-40. Now that I have the FCP tensioner in my trunk it stopped rattling. I am installing an oil press sender today. I was hoping to compare oil press between the two tensioners.

[Wet0willy01]

Now I get the camshaft sensor code daily. Luckily I have a spare vvt I can toss in.

[DiertyEuroSpec]

I went on a 5000 km trip from toronto to key west with my tensioner rattling the whole way. In charlotte NC I changed to 5-40 rotella from 0-40. Now that I have the FCP tensioner in my trunk it stopped rattling. I am installing an oil press sender today. I was hoping to compare oil press between the two tensioners.

Nice I doubt you will see any diff in pressure readings though. Where are you planning to take the readings from? I remember one member who took readings right from the head and he was BT and from CT I know someone has a link to his thread with oil pressure gauge placement

[daught]

Prosport gauge with a t-tap in the oil press switch. Unfortunately I snapped my oem switch. Minor set-back.

I remember reading a thread where someone solved a low oil pressure situation by changing the tensioner. Seems like they have an impact on oil press.

I just want to figure out the cause of the tapping.m.

[daught]

Are all the intake valves supposed to be all the way up when everything is lined up? Cyl #3 valves are slightly pressed down.

Also the intake mark is lagging a bit. This is pretty regular occurrence from what I recall, right?.