"APR - Deception, Coverups, and Lies"

[LINDW4LL]

I refuse to spend hours/days arguing with trolls that are there because they enjoy it. I'm not someones source of entertainment and I don't enjoy this.

Isn't that what Arin lives for? Where'd he go?

[Sean@APR]

Isn't that what Arin lives for? Where'd he go?

Arin is a whole different person now. His days of that are over. Which is exactly what brought the trolls and competitors out of the woodwork with this smear campaign crap.

[F40LM]

It's not a news story. It's a witch hunt/smear campaign made up of distortion/hyperbole/lies. Audirevolution is a completely unmoderated forum populated by children and trolls. I care about the truth and take the time to explain it. I also have a wife and a real job to do. I refuse to spend hours/days arguing with trolls that are there because they enjoy it. I'm not someones source of entertainment and I don't enjoy this.

Uhhh..... Then take the small hit and prove to them all the quality you offer by showing what they want to see. Its a small price to pay for your reputation.

[Viru5]

Im surprised APR isnt trashing the AWE exhaust they usually down every other company isnt that the reason you guys get banned from most forums?

[dirtydub]

It's not a news story. It's a witch hunt/smear campaign made up of distortion/hyperbole/lies. Audirevolution is a completely unmoderated forum populated by children and trolls. I care about the truth and take the time to explain it. I also have a wife and a real job to do. I refuse to spend hours/days arguing with trolls that are there because they enjoy it. I'm not someones source of entertainment and I don't enjoy this.

I beg to differ. This is a news story in the tuning community and a rather shocking one at that. Definitely not a smear campaign as those that post there also post here and on Vortex. You won't post there because you know exactly how it would end up. You would get owned, then frustrated, then make some idle threats and then go completely quiet. Arin loves to troll so much and he's even to chicken to address things there. Make no mistake, there is a reason for that. He doesn't post there anymore for the very same reasons you won't.

When are you guys moving to Tampa?

[Sean@APR]

Uhhh..... Then take the small hit and prove to them all the quality you offer by showing what they want to see. Its a small price to pay for your reputation.

I've answered this, I believe, 10 times already in this thread.

It's not mislabled. The exhausts DO have RSC and they work exactly as advertised. Ask somebody with an APR Golf R exhaust how it sounds. Or, go find the vortex thread. Plenty of people chimed in there complimenting the sound. It does EXACTLY what it's supposed to do.
...
We put exhausts on cars, they sounded good. We never cared what shape the baffles were. There ARE baffles (look at the patent I cited to see how they're made), they just happen to be round instead of flat.
...
Now, if the exhausts didn't work or they droned or something like that, there would be mis-representation. None of those things are the case.

Why should we cut one open? I never disputed that the picture of the back can looks like the Golf R system. I simply explained what the image shows (since most of the important bits aren't visible in the image).

[Sean@APR]

Im surprised APR isnt trashing the AWE exhaust

Those days are over.

We're not banned from any forum, as far as I'm aware.

[Viru5]

Those days are over.

We're not banned from any forum, as far as I'm aware.

Yeah you are your not allowed on MKV

[AWDLover]

IMO, seems like a good PR move would have been to come up with a detailed response, cut open an exhaust and document the process/results, post the same response in all forums, and leave it at that. Going back and forth with 'trolls' fuels the fire and makes the situation look worse..

[Sean@APR]

Yeah you are your not allowed on MKV

MKV is what, 10 years old now? That falls firmly in the "those days" category.

[AKPS4]

LOL the hits keep on coming. This is comical.

[mr shickadance]

Oh, great.. you again.


One request, would you please not accuse me of lying? I haven't lied to anybody. I've documented and explained to the extent of my knowledge. I've also done it at very high speed while arguing with multiple people. I'm bound to make some typo or gaffe during that process.

To be clear: I don't know what's in the front box. I've never seen one open.

On vortex, I made a supposition about what the front box contained based on the picture. I have no idea if that supposition is accurate or not. I was also clear about the fact that I've never opened one.


From the Vortex thread:



Finally, the contents of the front box are 100% irrelevant. Corsa can say anything they want contains RSC technology. If they say the front box contains it, then it contains it.

Conclusion: We didn't misrepresent or lie about anything. We sold a system that performs exactly as advertised (as noted by several actual customers in the vortex thread).

Vortex isn't the landfill, Audirevolution is.

Sean,

Shut the fuck up. At this point you are insulting your target demographic. When this story breaks on jalopnik tomorrow (and please everyone here at audizine be sure to tweet Doug demuro and message [email protected] the more people who do this the better) you are going to want a decent pr person behind this and someone like yourself who damn near pisses himself anytime someone calls you out is only going to make this worse for you.

So please. Just issue an apology, and begin to accrue for what is prolly gonna be a sizable class action against you.

For anyone wishing to help the customer out, start by screen shotting this thread and making sure to get everything in line before it gets deleted. Do this for all relevant threads and perhaps someone can start a Gmail drop box where we can dump the images.

Cheers apr, it was.... Interesting

Sorry for spelling and grammar I am on my phone

[MerkurRS]

The truth is getting buried somewhere under all this hostility, accusations and good ole' fashioned crap slinging. I know I am happy with my APR purchases and the local dealer has been terrific.

In the meanwhile, <this thread> = Lifetime + Velocity + Judge Judy

[F40LM]

I've answered this, I believe, 10 times already in this thread.

I dont see any good explanation of that. I hope the one member earlier in the thread actually does cut his open like he said. Whether you think its dumb or not its a small price to pay to satisfy the customers concerns....

IMO, seems like a good PR move would have been to come up with a detailed response, cut open an exhaust and document the process/results, post the same response in all forums, and leave it at that. Going back and forth with 'trolls' fuels the fire and makes the situation look worse..

Exactly, dont understand why these vendors cant get off their high horses and just show the customer what they want to see.

[Race Shooter]

Oh, great.. you again.


One request, would you please not accuse me of lying? I haven't lied to anybody. I've documented and explained to the extent of my knowledge. I've also done it at very high speed while arguing with multiple people. I'm bound to make some typo or gaffe during that process.

I apologize, maybe lie was too strong, however, it certainly seemed you were doing a lot of flip flopping and trying to keep all the "lies" straight. Sorry if I took it the wrong way.

To be clear: I don't know what's in the front box. I've never seen one open.

On vortex, I made a supposition about what the front box contained based on the picture. I have no idea if that supposition is accurate or not. I was also clear about the fact that I've never opened one.

Thats all you needed to say. You dont know. You didnt have to try to explain or prove that packing was RSC or anything like that, you just had to say, you didnt know. Now you have and I'm OK with that answer. You just seemed to contradict yourself with such certainty, it came across as lies.

Thanks.

From the Vortex thread:

Finally, the contents of the front box are 100% irrelevant. Corsa can say anything they want contains RSC technology. If they say the front box contains it, then it contains it.

Conclusion: We didn't misrepresent or lie about anything. We sold a system that performs exactly as advertised (as noted by several actual customers in the vortex thread).

Vortex isn't the landfill, Audirevolution is.

While maybe not false, I think that attitude is a bit poor and what people are upset about. "Just cause they say it is," as an answer while having a ton of advertising material that shows these fancy resonators and expensive, time consuming construction (which is helpful in justifying a price) and then pictures showing something that seems far from what is advertised, makes it look like you really dont give a damn and screw the customer. Just to say "cause they say it is" is just insulting and to put it back on Corsa goes even further.

And I think what is in the front box is relevant since everything implies a fancy multi-compartment resonator that takes a lot of time to produce. To just say its not relevant is another slap in the face.

I think the smart thing would have just been to say you werent aware of the exact tech in each exhaust, you used promo material supplied by them and that you'd talk with Corsa look into how RSC is specifically used in each system and get back to us.

You didnt have to make excuses, or try to dodge questions. I'll stay out of it from here on out. Good luck to all.

[Sean@APR]

I apologize, maybe lie was too strong, however, it certainly seemed you were doing a lot of flip flopping and trying to keep all the "lies" straight. Sorry if I took it the wrong way.

I'm sorry for taking it the wrong way. Many forums have common members with different names and I thought you were the same guy from last night.

I'm not a PR person. I'm an engineer and my goal is to give data, nothing more, nothing less. Thanks for being cool about it.

Edit: Wait, I just noticed your sig. You are the same guy. Thanks even more.

[phillips2024]

+1 for sticky


Sent from my iPod shuffle

[audistealth]

Arin is a whole different person now. His days of that are over. Which is exactly what brought the trolls and competitors out of the woodwork with this smear campaign crap.

Wait, you fired Arin?

[audistealth]

I'm sorry for taking it the wrong way. Many forums have common members with different names and I thought you were the same guy from last night.

I'm not a PR person. I'm an engineer and my goal is to give data, nothing more, nothing less. Thanks for being cool about it.

Edit: Wait, I just noticed your sig. You are the same guy. Thanks even more.

That's cool of you. Honesty and politeness will take you very far here. And engineering / data.

Any word on stage 3 superchargers? (Had to try)

[LINDW4LL]

Wait, you fired Arin?

He's not Arin's boss.

I'm guessing it was more like:

Management: "If you post any more smart ass comments on the forums we will not hesitate a single second before firing you"
Arin: "OK"

[Race Shooter]

I'm sorry for taking it the wrong way. Many forums have common members with different names and I thought you were the same guy from last night.

I'm not a PR person. I'm an engineer and my goal is to give data, nothing more, nothing less. Thanks for being cool about it.

I am the same guy, which is why I jumped on it so quick tonight feeling like you just kept dodging me yesterday. So sorry again about that. I hope everyone figures it all out.

[audistealth]

He's not Arin's boss.

I'm guessing it was more like:

Management: "If you post any more smart ass comments on the forums we will not hesitate a single second before firing you"
Arin: "OK"

So he was fired a second later. Damn. He was usually a fun guy.

[S4 00 2.7]

Also, I loved their muffler packing... Un-fvcking-believable.

WTFF?

Lol

[Sean@APR]

Any word on stage 3 superchargers? (Had to try)

Work in progress.

Hopefully the patent issue will be resolved soon (I hate patent trolls as much as I hate the forum variety) and we'll be able to say more. Until the lawyers loosen their grip, though, we can't say anything.

[LINDW4LL]

So he was fired a second later. Damn.

[amz]

Quick, maybe stupid question. Why cut one open at all? Shouldn't a decent tech be able to snake a scope into the mufflers at either end of the exhaust, grab some pics (or even better, a video?) It's the next best thing to cutting one open, and costs a few $thousand less. It should at least provide more clues then all this angry typing and accusations.

[crew219]

Quick, maybe stupid question. Why cut one open at all? Shouldn't a decent tech be able to snake a scope into the mufflers at either end of the exhaust, grab some pics (or even better, a video?) It's the next best thing to cutting one open, and costs a few $thousand less. It should at least provide more clues then all this angry typing and accusations.

APR cut those Golf R ones open. Not disclosing where the others came from. I have two more pictures I will post tomorrow.

Dave

[audistealth]

No, he wasn't fired (Unless that's a joke that went over my head).

Sean said he's "a different person now" because he's forced to be or he'll be reprimanded by management.

Yeah, I was joking. How many posts do you think Arin can go without making a smart assed comment? And I mean that in a friendly way.

[LINDW4LL]

Yeah, I was joking. How many posts do you think Arin can go without making a smart assed comment? And I mean that in a friendly way.

Haha, I thought you may have been joking but it's the internet so it's hard to judge people's intent!!

[audistealth]

Work in progress.

Hopefully the patent issue will be resolved soon (I hate patent trolls as much as I hate the forum variety) and we'll be able to say more. Until the lawyers loosen their grip, though, we can't say anything.

Fair, but good to know not dead yet. Thanks.

[apexit1]

They could just video someone giving a quick intro and follow said person around the building until they get to the exhaust stock. Pick up a box open it and grab a grinder and go at it. Either proving us or them right/ wrong. Then weld up the exhaust and sell it with a open box/ demo discount. Everyone is happy while APR is out almost nothing and give is a rare glimpse inside their operation.

my .02

[integroid]

Well I worked there as the Purchasing Manager and have been a part of the company in some way, form or fashion since it's start in 1997. I can recognize those photos easily...especially, backgrounds, floors, tools, etc. Other APR technicians, or rather former technicians were present while these photos were taken. Believe what you want and I'll believe what I know.

I am glad you haven't had any issues with your exhaust....consider yourself one of the lucky ones that didn't get screwed over.

Dont kid yourself...you had nothing to do with the company until just a few years ago. Funny how you just joined AZ today too.

[boomtime]

Bottom line here:
- APR and some owners got burned by outsourcing their fabrication and production on some products.
- The only people who benefit from a class action lawsuit are the lawyers.
- You will put APR out of business and each get $50 refund from the class...wow thats worth it <sarcasm>
- Then everyone else that has a well designed APR product will be screwed with no future support.

[LINDW4LL]

Dont kid yourself...you had nothing to do with the company until just a few years ago. Funny how you just joined AZ today too.

He joined after seeing this thread linked on AudiRevolution... Not sure why that is surprising or sketchy.

Do you have inside knowledge that he was NOT involved with APR until recently?

[hyperunion]

Bottom line here:
- APR and some owners got burned by outsourcing their fabrication and production on some products.
- The only people who benefit from a class action lawsuit are the lawyers.
- You will put APR out of business and each get $50 refund from the class...wow thats worth it <sarcasm>
- Then everyone else that has a well designed APR product will be screwed with no future support.

I will have to admit boomtime.... This is true!!.. But no justification.. We just want the facts... Not to put an American company that does employ American workers out of business and out of work....

[deceptacon]

What type of stainless steel piping is used for the "RSC" exhaus?

[audistealth]

What type of stainless steel piping is used for the "RSC" exhaus?

T-304

[LINDW4LL]

What type of stainless steel piping is used for the "RSC" exhaus?

That's the other issue here.

APR/Corsa also changed some of it's RSC exhausts to T409 stainless, which is about 35% cheaper than T304, yet still advertised the exhausts as using T304 for an unknown period of time. Those descriptions have been changed now. They also raised the prices on those exhausts even though they were using cheaper materials, but that doesn't really bother me.

I believe this was only on the GTI/R exhausts, but he didn't elaborate on that much. @crew219?

[cory_can]

It's not a news story. It's a witch hunt/smear campaign made up of distortion/hyperbole/lies. Audirevolution is a completely unmoderated forum populated by children and trolls. I care about the truth and take the time to explain it. I also have a wife and a real job to do. I refuse to spend hours/days arguing with trolls that are there because they enjoy it. I'm not someones source of entertainment and I don't enjoy this.

Sean, you have it very wrong...but you know that already. Yes, it (AR) is essentially unmoderated but that's exactly what makes it very dangerous for dishonest companies, and valuable to consumers. The members of AR are free to question, discuss and dissect the BS around the Audi performance community without paid sponsors being able to manipulate or kill a story that hurts their bottom line. There is NO hiding or crying for your mommy. The reason why you don't respond to the AR thread is simple, you're scared. You would get owned without anyway of pushing a panic button.

[dirtydub]

Dont kid yourself...you had nothing to do with the company until just a few years ago. Funny how you just joined AZ today too.

LOL....ok. When APR was first starting, Stephen personally called me to get everyone from ASCC together for an open house/dyno event. You even attended that evening. Since then, I attended shows/BBQ/track events with APR working sales/tech support, DPP, product displays and later shop support/detailing. I did all that while working another job and didn't come on board full time until 2010, when Johnny and Stephen created the position for me. So while I may have had larger roles in the company some years more than others, I've always been involved in some sort of way.

Yes, I did in fact join this site today, however, I'm not new to visiting this forum. I'm generally a fairly quiet person and watch from distance, but decided to join so I could give my $0.02 on information that I'm aware of.

Just so we're clear, I do not currently, nor have I ever had any personal beef with you, Eddie.