DIY: How to swap instrument clusters in cars with Immobilizer

[conradtwitty]

Also, my current tune has the immo deleted but I can have it re added in order to make it work if need be. When I put the s4 cluster in the car starts and stays running but the 4 ways flash for 5 minutes and the odometer says SAFE. As well as can't use the heat or anything.

[Osher67]

Can anyone help me have two questions
I have a 02 b6 a4 manual with stock rb4 cluster
I'm going to be swapping 05 b6 s4 auto rb4 cluster.

Two questions
1 Can I just use the orginal immobilizer chip that was programmed to the s4 cluster?
2 how do you program an auto cluster to manual?
Or is that automatically done when it's adapted ?

[rollerton]

Can anyone help me have two questions
I have a 02 b6 a4 manual with stock rb4 cluster
I'm going to be swapping 05 b6 s4 auto rb4 cluster.

Two questions
1 Can I just use the orginal immobilizer chip that was programmed to the s4 cluster?
2 how do you program an auto cluster to manual?
Or is that automatically done when it's adapted ?

This is the C5 forum and the Rb4 cluster is somewhat different, it needs to be put in mode 4/NEW mode to be adapted. Also, the 05' cluster wont work in your 02' There were some changes made to the B6 cluster in early 2003' and a few things will screw that up. One is the change in VSS/ABS signal. The early cars use a sensor on the left front axle, the later ones get signal from the ABS module, the cluster is therefore different and your speedo wont work. Good chance the tach wont work either, also your old cluster has an 'immoblizer' warning icon where the late one has the TPMS icon and the IMMO warning is built into the odometer.

Don't bother, it wont work, ask me how I know. To get a color MFA cluster in your early B6 isn't going to be easy; *I think* there is only ONE iteration of the S4 cluster that might even work, otherwise you're stuck looking for a cluster from an early B6 that came with Navigation; the color cluster was part of that technology package.

If you want to try you'll need Vageeprom and VCDS to do it safely and reliably. Use Vageeprom to decrypt the cluster, read the SKC then encrypt it again, then use VCDS to do the adaptation to match your cluster and keys. And use VCDS to change the coding to what you need and channel 60 I think to change to manual. If you want to change the odometer mileage (which is a felony not to) then you'll need to leave the cluster in mode 4 and set the mileage to ' 0 ', then do the ODO correction and encrypt and match keys.
If none of this is sounding familiar at all...then contact Tom @ speedosolutions.com . He can help you. Don't bother talking about swapping Immo chips and whatnot, that is not how Rb4 clusters work really.

[Osher67]

This is the C5 forum and the Rb4 cluster is somewhat different, it needs to be put in mode 4/NEW mode to be adapted. Also, the 05' cluster wont work in your 02' There were some changes made to the B6 cluster in early 2003' and a few things will screw that up. One is the change in VSS/ABS signal. The early cars use a sensor on the left front axle, the later ones get signal from the ABS module, the cluster is therefore different and your speedo wont work. Good chance the tach wont work either, also your old cluster has an 'immoblizer' warning icon where the late one has the TPMS icon and the IMMO warning is built into the odometer.

Don't bother, it wont work, ask me how I know. To get a color MFA cluster in your early B6 isn't going to be easy; *I think* there is only ONE iteration of the S4 cluster that might even work, otherwise you're stuck looking for a cluster from an early B6 that came with Navigation; the color cluster was part of that technology package.

If you want to try you'll need Vageeprom and VCDS to do it safely and reliably. Use Vageeprom to decrypt the cluster, read the SKC then encrypt it again, then use VCDS to do the adaptation to match your cluster and keys. And use VCDS to change the coding to what you need and channel 60 I think to change to manual. If you want to change the odometer mileage (which is a felony not to) then you'll need to leave the cluster in mode 4 and set the mileage to ' 0 ', then do the ODO correction and encrypt and match keys.
If none of this is sounding familiar at all...then contact Tom @ speedosolutions.com . He can help you. Don't bother talking about swapping Immo chips and whatnot, that is not how Rb4 clusters work really.

Thanks for reply I do remember this that my car has different speed signals but I believe it is still all the same setup to the cluster

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...002-B6-A4-1-8T

And
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...er-in-b6/page2


From what I gather it should work.
I'm also installing the cecm from the s4
Do you know if you reuse the immobilizer chip? From the cluster you want to swap?

[rollerton]

Like I said, there's one version of the S4 cluster that will work and your odds of finding that particular one is better if you get one with the same hardware (match the warning icons/ idiot lights). There are many different B6 clusters and with lots of difference but there are a couple changes that really mattered, I don't think all the changes are documented anywhere- you just have to hope the cluster you have doesn't have any of the differences that make it useless for your particular car.

And again, NO, you cannot swap Immo chips on Rb4 clusters. Each cluster has a unique encryption and unless you've invested in a program like Deja Vu you'll want to do what I outlined using Vageeprom. You can NOT swap the chips. You simply adapt as usual once you have the SKC. I've done it quite a few times; I've owned 4 ? B6's and put n S4 cluster in every one of them. On two of them I had to make a trade with Tom in order to get one that was correct and everything worked; both those times the problem was late vs. early changes (putting the late cluster in a pre 03
car).

[Osher67]

Like I said, there's one version of the S4 cluster that will work and your odds of finding that particular one is better if you get one with the same hardware (match the warning icons/ idiot lights). There are many different B6 clusters and with lots of difference but there are a couple changes that really mattered, I don't think all the changes are documented anywhere- you just have to hope the cluster you have doesn't have any of the differences that make it useless for your particular car.

And again, NO, you cannot swap Immo chips on Rb4 clusters. Each cluster has a unique encryption and unless you've invested in a program like Deja Vu you'll want to do what I outlined using Vageeprom. You can NOT swap the chips. You simply adapt as usual once you have the SKC. I've done it quite a few times; I've owned 4 ? B6's and put n S4 cluster in every one of them. On two of them I had to make a trade with Tom in order to get one that was correct and everything worked; both those times the problem was late vs. early changes (putting the late cluster in a pre 03
car).

Thanks I'll have to try it out soon see how it goes with EPROM, And what I mean with the immo is do I use the one that was in the s4 or the one that was being used for my a4 ?
I'm thinking I should swap the immo chip from the s4 key to my key. What I was trying to ask sorry for the complication.


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[Osher67]

Thanks I'll have to try it out soon see how it goes with EPROM, And what I mean with the immo is do I use the one that was in the s4 or the one that was being used for my a4 ?
I'm thinking I should swap the immo chip from the s4 key to my key. What I was trying to ask sorry for the complication.


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I'm just little confused with this because I know each immobilizer chip is programmed to the cluster?
I know of course you will need to program the s4 cluster with EPROM i have looked up several threads on this in retrieving the skc and putting info virgin mode then adapting.

I will be trying that out soon.

I'm trying to figure out if I need a virgin immo chip, or will I be able to use one of the old ones from the s4 key, or my original immo from my a4 key. To the s4 cluster.

I know you change the vin in the cluster, don't know if that means it will remember the original immo chip after adapted, or the one the s4 originally had, or either and needs a Virgin immo chip.



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[rollerton]

Oh-- you mean the RFID chip in the key fob?
Those stay with the 'car' . When you match any component (ECU, Cluster, key, etc) of the Immo system it acquires the ImmoID that the system in that car has. ECU's and Clusters have a somewhat flexible ImmoID in that it can be reprogrammed, but the chip in the key becomes 'bit-locked' to a certain ImmoID. The ImmoID has something to do with the vin# since the ECU and cluster both see that on the can-bus. The chip in the key can be reprogrammed many times, but ONLY to the original Immo system they were matched to first.
So, if you swap the cluster AND ECU and keys from one car to the next, it should work. But you cannot swap the key/chip to a different system.
If they keys worked in the car you'd like to use them in and you successfully swap in a different ECU or cluster or both, then they will ALWAYS work in that car, but never a different one unless you swap the other Immo components.

I have a handful of megamos ID48 RFID chips for Immo2/3 (any vw /audi up to about 2008) if you need any. I also have Vageeprom in my Gdrive ...you're going to need that. Run it through a Hex-Can cable and it works great.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...nUtQXotaUdqaFE

[Nemesis2747]

Cant move keys to new car but can program them to new cluster. Worst case, new RFID chips are like $2 each on ebay.

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[Osher67]

Oh-- you mean the RFID chip in the key fob?
Those stay with the 'car' . When you match any component (ECU, Cluster, key, etc) of the Immo system it acquires the ImmoID that the system in that car has. ECU's and Clusters have a somewhat flexible ImmoID in that it can be reprogrammed, but the chip in the key becomes 'bit-locked' to a certain ImmoID. The ImmoID has something to do with the vin# since the ECU and cluster both see that on the can-bus. The chip in the key can be reprogrammed many times, but ONLY to the original Immo system they were matched to first.
So, if you swap the cluster AND ECU and keys from one car to the next, it should work. But you cannot swap the key/chip to a different system.
If they keys worked in the car you'd like to use them in and you successfully swap in a different ECU or cluster or both, then they will ALWAYS work in that car, but never a different one unless you swap the other Immo components.

I have a handful of megamos ID48 RFID chips for Immo2/3 (any vw /audi up to about 2008) if you need any. I also have Vageeprom in my Gdrive ...you're going to need that. Run it through a Hex-Can cable and it works great.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...nUtQXotaUdqaFE

Sweet thanks for the help I couldn't do this without guys like you on the forms.
I'll try reusing the RFID chip that I had in my car before. I also emailed tom at speedo solutions and he said same thing.
He said that the new cluster takes over the ID of the old cluster, and to use the orginal RFID chip that was with the car.

He also said that the 2005 s4 cluster would be completely compatible with my 2002 a4. So we'll see when I get this together Very soon.

[jbain2]

Bumping this thread. Had to replace a cluster. ECU immo is off. Swapped version 3 cluster from C5 A6 into C5 Allroad. Getting immobilizer key in tachometer. Can this be reprogrammed with Vag Commander? Is that all I need and follow the steps in this thread? Thanks.

[rollerton]

Bumping this thread. Had to replace a cluster. ECU immo is off. Swapped version 3 cluster from C5 A6 into C5 Allroad. Getting immobilizer key in tachometer. Can this be reprogrammed with Vag Commander? Is that all I need and follow the steps in this thread? Thanks.

Does the car run? If you do Immo defeat in the ECU then the cluster is still going to have a fit if an unmatched key is used. The ECU doesn't care, but the key-cluster relationship still needs to be corrected or you need to do an Immo defeat at the cluster.
You can match the key to cluster just like normal to get rid of the flashing key; but your Immo system will still be turned off.

[jbain2]

Does the car run? If you do Immo defeat in the ECU then the cluster is still going to have a fit if an unmatched key is used. The ECU doesn't care, but the key-cluster relationship still needs to be corrected or you need to do an Immo defeat at the cluster.
You can match the key to cluster just like normal to get rid of the flashing key; but your Immo system will still be turned off.

Car runs. Immo defeat on the ECU. I have sent clusters out to Speedo Solutions before to be cloned. Was hoping there was a way that I could do it. Downloaded Vag Commander. Have VCDS. Thought I would be able to pull the pin using vag commander for the original cluster and then input that onto the new one using VCDS. Is there something else I need to do? Thanks.


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[rollerton]

Thought I would be able to pull the pin using vag commander for the original cluster and then input that onto the new one using VCDS.

If you can read the Eeprom from the cluster then it'll give you the PIN also. I can't remember if VagCommander has the right 'template' to pull the PIN from the cluster? Each cluster in every particular model the eeprom can have the SKC embedded at a different address, so to be able to read ALL cluster PINs' it would have to have so many different templates programmed. I think the more legitimate /paid versions may have a sort of 'auto detect' type of template based on say, MotoMeter, vs. VDO clusters so it spits out the PIN automatically if you have the option of selecting the right cluster type.
If you can get Vagcommander to connect to the cluster then by all means give it a go.. but most of the time we read the SKC from the ECU these days. It's possible Vageeprommer will do it too; that what I use to read the SKC from Rb4 (B4/A4 clusters); but I don't remember trying that on the C5?

[jbain2]

If you can read the Eeprom from the cluster then it'll give you the PIN also. I can't remember if VagCommander has the right 'template' to pull the PIN from the cluster? Each cluster in every particular model the eeprom can have the SKC embedded at a different address, so to be able to read ALL cluster PINs' it would have to have so many different templates programmed. I think the more legitimate /paid versions may have a sort of 'auto detect' type of template based on say, MotoMeter, vs. VDO clusters so it spits out the PIN automatically if you have the option of selecting the right cluster type.
If you can get Vagcommander to connect to the cluster then by all means give it a go.. but most of the time we read the SKC from the ECU these days. It's possible Vageeprommer will do it too; that what I use to read the SKC from Rb4 (B4/A4 clusters); but I don't remember trying that on the C5?

The start of this thread would lead me to believe that if I can track down the pin using Vag commander from the donor cluster and then program it with VCDS and then finalize mileage with vag commander. Unless I am reading it wrong. OP used a C5 RS6 cluster into his donor C5 Allroad.

I am happy to pay for new software and/or hardware but want to get something that will work and not be a waste as the alternative is paying to have it done.

[A41.8TB6]

Any updates on your saga

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[jbain2]

Any updates on your saga

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The replacement cluster was coded for the wrong vehicle. For some reason I wasn’t able to get the correct vehicle coding to take with vag-com. I have another cluster coming which I will re-pin hopefully with vag Commander.

So despite the fact that the ecu has the immobilizer removed the clusters still need the correct pin and coding.


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[jbain2]

Bought a vag commander cable. Came with mini disc. Installed files but the app won’t open. Trying to find another source for the 1.4 download. Found several just not sure if they are reputable. Anyone have a good source? Thanks.


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[A41.8TB6]

I have the same problem with that. I been looking for the link also. I bought the pin reader and able to pull the pin out of the cluster. But I'm still waiting for the cluster that I bought.

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[jbain2]

I have the same problem with that. I been looking for the link also. I bought the pin reader and able to pull the pin out of the cluster. But I'm still waiting for the cluster that I bought.

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I have the replacement cluster. Just need to be able to read the pin. I have a cheap windows notebook running windows 10 (hate it). I wonder if there is a compatibility issue. I can run VCDS on it and one other program.

What “pin reader” are you using?

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[superdlux]

Last night we tried swapping Immo 3 clusters on 3 different cars using the OP's instructions.

We were able to pull the pins from the clusters originally in the car with Vag commander. No problem there.

When we installed the donor clusters we were unable to pull the Pins from those. All three showed the same 5 digit code where the 4 digit pin normally is. Even though each car had a different donor cluster installed. We played around with this for hours. We followed the instructions to the letter and no dice.

Any ideas or suggestions?


Edit: I found instructions on a European forum that says after installing the used cluster (donor) cluster, you have to click "reset ECU", let that finish and then click "read" to get the pin from the new/used cluster. Is this correct?

Did this work?

I'm having the same issue with the 5 digit PIN on my S6 with the donor cluster.

TIA