Questions for JHM about SC Kit

[seadoo2006]

Uhh, non-built 4.2 JHM SC stage 1 is 420-440whp. Not sure where you got your 25k-35k figure. Stage 2 and (whenever Stage 3 comes around) are/will obviously be much higher (with a built engine). Just pointing it out.

Your car has north of $25k worth of mods and you're doing 421 to the wheels with only 350ft.-lbs of torque.

JHM Supercharger -- $8,500.00
JHM IM -- $1,050.00
JHM Stage 4 Clutch and Flywheel -- $1,650.00
JHM Exhaust Manifold -- $2,750.00

It's a race car, so we can ignore the extra $1600 for the 2.5" exhaust ... Add in $500 for engine mounts and you're at $14,450.00 WITHOUT labor just to get to where the 2.0t is going with $1500 worth of rods, no head work, and a $1400 3071 turbo. All of this and the engine STILL goes BOOM at 450whp ... so,, figure on the baseline costs for the Stage 2 engine build from JHM being at LEAST another $10k and it being still completely, 100% experimental at this point and you can see why you would NOT want this setup in a track only car.

Seriously, when something goes pop, you want to be able to build it tomorrow, not 6 months from now when JHM - maybe??? - will release their rod and piston kit. Also keep in mind that there isn't yet a solution for sleeving the engine and you can see - very quickly - why this platform is terrible for doing any hp more than what stock internal VW GTIs have been doing for years.

It's not a knock on JHM, it's a knock on this engine being completely financially dumb to build for a track setting ... 421whp is great for investing $14k into it, but $14k into a 2.0t is going to get you where the JHM Stage 2 engine would be, if not more ...

[event]

What 2.0t are you referring to? No one on the B7 boards is making near 500hp. I believe low 400's is the highest, cost in the teens to achieve and isn't very reliable.

[EUROSWAGR]

What 2.0t are you referring to? No one on the B7 boards is making near 500hp. I believe low 400's is the highest, cost in the teens to achieve and isn't very reliable.

Exactly..he has no clue what he is talking about.

A JHM built stage 2 will be a mid to low 11s car...stage 3 will be retarded.

2.0ts need a lot more than the guy above mentions...you left out fueling, intercooling, meth injection to make that much power, exhaust mofication ..the stock IM won't make that power, neither will the stock exhaust manifold. We haven't even addressed the cluth and transmission/drivetrain to handle that power.

...and to be honest you'll still have a pretty hard time catching a JHM stage 2 car.

[Axel-]

Was going to respond but seems like I don't have to :)

[troyguitar]

...and to be honest you'll still have a pretty hard time catching a JHM stage 2 car.

That would be quite a feat to catch something that doesn't exist...

[AudiA4_20T]

What 2.0t are you referring to? No one on the B7 boards is making near 500hp. I believe low 400's is the highest, cost in the teens to achieve and isn't very reliable.

There are actually a few 400awhp B7 A4s, and cost is basically in-line with boosting a 4.2 to 400awhp. Also, 1.8Ts are no different.

However I think that if 400awhp is your end-all goal, a S/C BHF is the perfect car. Powerband is killer, decent track times, more reliable than a 400whp 4 cylinder, and just all around fun.

Your car has north of $25k worth of mods and you're doing 421 to the wheels with only 350ft.-lbs of torque.

JHM Supercharger -- $8,500.00
JHM IM -- $1,050.00
JHM Stage 4 Clutch and Flywheel -- $1,650.00
JHM Exhaust Manifold -- $2,750.00

It's a race car, so we can ignore the extra $1600 for the 2.5" exhaust ... Add in $500 for engine mounts and you're at $14,450.00 WITHOUT labor just to get to where the 2.0t is going with $1500 worth of rods, no head work, and a $1400 3071 turbo. All of this and the engine STILL goes BOOM at 450whp ... so,, figure on the baseline costs for the Stage 2 engine build from JHM being at LEAST another $10k and it being still completely, 100% experimental at this point and you can see why you would NOT want this setup in a track only car.

Seriously, when something goes pop, you want to be able to build it tomorrow, not 6 months from now when JHM - maybe??? - will release their rod and piston kit. Also keep in mind that there isn't yet a solution for sleeving the engine and you can see - very quickly - why this platform is terrible for doing any hp more than what stock internal VW GTIs have been doing for years.

It's not a knock on JHM, it's a knock on this engine being completely financially dumb to build for a track setting ... 421whp is great for investing $14k into it, but $14k into a 2.0t is going to get you where the JHM Stage 2 engine would be, if not more ...

I get where you're going with this, and it's somewhat true, but it's not like you slap a turbo and some rods in and make good power. There is certainly a formula and it's not cheap. I've seen some fully build 1.8Ts pop at the track on their first run also. When modding engines for crazy power that risk is also there.

[Jake@JHM]

That would be quite a feat to catch something that doesn't exist...

What makes you so sure?

[troyguitar]

No runs faster than 11.96 = no stage 2.

[iHaveBoost?]

What makes you so sure?

[JimmyBones]

No runs faster than 11.96 = no stage 2.

91GL ran a 11.92 with his stage 1 SC S4.

Also knowing JHM I can assume that they have been testing their stage 2 SC kit for a long time by now. Jay even mentioned this section in the S5 shop car thread.

[0000 V8]

I didnt mean for this thread to get out of hand and turn into a pissing contest. There is no doubt that what JHM is doing with the BHF is anything but supurb work. If they could do these motor builds for cheaper they would. There SC kit is solid.

Its just not really what Im looking for when I imagine what Ill be doing with the car years down the road. Swapping in a 1.8T stroked to 2.0T is the best option. Im already working with 034 on ideas and they have already done all the research as this is the SAME motor they have in their A4 Time Attack race car. Keep in mind that they had a larger, more powerful VR6 Turbo motor in it before they went with a less powerful stroked 1.8T, but got better track times.

You guys are all talking about HP like Im doing 1/4mi racing, when Im just looking for the best balanced motor for weight distribution, power, upgradablility, price, and easy enough for an ameuter (me) to deal with.

[Jake@JHM]

No runs faster than 11.96 = no stage 2.

Here is a JHM stage 1 that is faster than 11.96..

http://audirevolution.net/videos/87/...-breaking-pass

As you probably already know, we like to give our products the test of time. Our products have always been around and in full use quite some time before the public is able purchase them. We aren't going to slap something together, run a time, and give it to the market.

Why do you associate stages with time-slips?

Jake


Edit:

Got tied up on the phone and didn't hit the post button, and James beat me to it.

[Axel-]

I didnt mean for this thread to get out of hand and turn into a pissing contest. There is no doubt that what JHM is doing with the BHF is anything but supurb work. If they could do these motor builds for cheaper they would. There SC kit is solid.

Its just not really what Im looking for when I imagine what Ill be doing with the car years down the road. Swapping in a 1.8T stroked to 2.0T is the best option. Im already working with 034 on ideas and they have already done all the research as this is the SAME motor they have in their A4 Time Attack race car. Keep in mind that they had a larger, more powerful VR6 Turbo motor in it before they went with a less powerful stroked 1.8T, but got better track times.

You guys are all talking about HP like Im doing 1/4mi racing, when Im just looking for the best balanced motor for weight distribution, power, upgradablility, price, and easy enough for an ameuter (me) to deal with.

If you're going to swap the engine to a 4 cyl (or a VR6), then you're really just going to end up with an S4 chassis. You'll have made so many changes, why did you end up going with such a heavy chassis?
Wouldn't it have been better to start with something lighter? Apologies if this question sounds a little newbish.

[EUROSWAGR]

No runs faster than 11.96 = no stage 2.

That's what you know..

[Axel-]

That's what you know..

Now now Euro, you know as well as I do that there is no Stage 2. All this time, it's just been a long con...Nothing to see here, move along everyone :)

[Austinfritts]

First off, what the hell are we "fine" tuning. The Supercharger kit will make more power than his motor will ever handle in stock form...that is where you guys are making ZERO sense.

You aren't going to retune your car between lap sessions...especially when your not racing for real. People have "Real" race teams for that shit. You also aren't gonna squeeze more power out of an NA motor if the air density gets worse by tuning it yourself...and tunes like JHM will adapt real time if the air density gets better and will limit and protect the engine if it sucks.

Have we forgot that NO ONE else can tune the BHF, seriously let us argue that point. Some novice tuner on a standalone system is probably going to do one thing...screw shit up.

..and ya there is SO MUCH room for a rear mount turbo...and piping...and a decent intercooler...o wait, no there isn't

obviously you know nothing about rear mounts they don't need massive intercoolers and theres plenty of room ...... they run low boost around 5 psi.. why don't you look at sts turbo kits tell me theres no room they put twin turbos on smaller cars.........

[jfunkey]

Your car has north of $25k worth of mods and you're doing 421 to the wheels with only 350ft.-lbs of torque.

JHM Supercharger -- $8,500.00
JHM IM -- $1,050.00
JHM Stage 4 Clutch and Flywheel -- $1,650.00
JHM Exhaust Manifold -- $2,750.00

It's ...

How did that add up to 25....axel dosent have headers and I dont think he has an intake

A 1.8 stroker isnt going to exactly be cheap.
Motor 6k
Turbo kit 6k
New exhaust 2k
New clutch 1500
Front mount intake and little bits 1k
Fuel pump injectors with full fueling 1k
All the adapters fittings hoses mounts brakets supports etc 1k
Then all the un accounted for expenses it adds up.

If we are using axel for am exmple....have yoj seen axels dyno sheet no lag and 300wtq for most of the band.......and its detuned to 421whp....detuned.....


0000 for what you have going a 2.0 sounds more like it will work for you...normally if clint was to talk about anything 4.2 related motor tune fueling its a stong guarantee its bad info or wrong.........with the 1.8 2.0 4cyl stuff he has a big handle on what can be done and what it takes...im not afraid to say on the 4cyl stuff he is ONE of the goto guys......that and 034 helping seems like its best for your goals amd pocket book

[EUROSWAGR]

obviously you know nothing about rear mounts they don't need massive intercoolers and theres plenty of room ...... they run low boost around 5 psi.. why don't you look at sts turbo kits tell me theres no room they put twin turbos on smaller cars.........

Actually I know plenty...you just described a setup that is going to be way less efficient than the supercharger kit. Why would someone want to upgrade to a rear mount turbo setup that will have more weight with piping than the supercharger kit?not to forget lag and heat? I'm not gonna argue over the little things though.

This thread was pointless from the get go..OP started the thread...he asked this...

Regarding a B6 S4 kit, stage 1.

1) Do you have any idea what the weight of the kit is, specifically, I would like to know how much weight is being added in front of the motor (for those specific components) and perhaps the additional weight of the remainder of the components.

2) Would anything change as far as capabilities of the setup (not including a built motor, obviously) if the kit was added with a custom stand-alone tune using 034EFI, instead of a JHM tune on a stock ECU? I ask because the stock ECU can have limits, and I can do a 034EFI setup with full race tune.

P.S. This is not a street car.

Jake answered...

than he asks more pointless questions..

Jake, thanks for the quick reply.

I understand the limits of the motor, I was just curious if the stock ECU limits the powerband at all. 034 has offered to do a 034EFI on my car, especially since I have a stand alone fuel system and crazy fuel pump. Any benefits you think?

I dont want to get flamed for saying this, but im researching the price comparison vs. weight amount and location for a turbo setup. I would call it a rear-mounted, but if youve seen my exhaust, it would be more of a "mid-mounted" setup residing in the area where my stock fuel cell used to be. Lots of room and I like the idea of being able to turn boost way down for events that will put me in a low race class. That with the 034EFI could prove useful, just need to work out price.

Im not trying to under rate your SC kit, just looking into other options for MY car since its very different than any of your other customers. I understand just going with the SC kit would be the most reliable, however, given my above statements and goals... I need to research. The absolute last thing I want to do is ADD 50-70lbs to the front of the motor. I would rather do a swap for a lighter motor.

So he understands the motor limits, but wonders if stand alone will benefit power band???...WHAT??

Then he mentions the rear turbo setup (that isn't gonna be any CHEAPER...or less weight...and he still has the heavy ass BHF in there that sits out over the nose like an anvil...and it still needs tuned)

Lastly, he states he would rather do a swap for a lighter motor instead of add the weight...well than do it.

I really just believe this guy creates threads for attention...he is worried about 50-70lbs on the nose of his gutted race car, but he ignores the proven reliability and the fact that his car will be around 420whp...in a gutted B6 that thing will move...Hell the spoiler you can see from the moon may actually come in handy. In the end it's your car, but this could have just been a simple email or PM to Jake...but you wouldn't have been able to mention race car and you research to everyone, .

You would have been better off buying a wrecked A4 and throw all the parts at it, instead you choose to ruin an S4...and if you do remove the heart of the B6/7 S4, honestly the one part you have left on it that is original..what is the point?

[0000 V8]

So he understands the motor limits, but wonders if stand alone will benefit power band???...WHAT??

Then he mentions the rear turbo setup (that isn't gonna be any CHEAPER...or less weight...and he still has the heavy ass BHF in there that sits out over the nose like an anvil...and it still needs tuned)

Lastly, he states he would rather do a swap for a lighter motor instead of add the weight...well than do it.

I really just believe this guy creates threads for attention...he is worried about 50-70lbs on the nose of his gutted race car, but he ignores the proven reliability and the fact that his car will be around 420whp...in a gutted B6 that thing will move...Hell the spoiler you can see from the moon may actually come in handy. In the end it's your car, but this could have just been a simple email or PM to Jake...but you wouldn't have been able to mention race car and you research to everyone, .

You would have been better off buying a wrecked A4 and throw all the parts at it, instead you choose to ruin an S4...and if you do remove the heart of the B6/7 S4, honestly the one part you have left on it that is original..what is the point?

This is a forum, is it not? I dont see anything wrong with asking JHM a question about something on a forum, considering they are hard to get a hold of any other avenue. I also wanted to get people to chime in their ideas, without being disgruntled about it and giving me a hard time. Im sorry Im not an expert like you.

I asked questions about the ECU because I wanted to know if it was limiting what the car can do throughout its powerband, as in wont a more programmable ECU not have factory limits and be able to change various things to match MY car rather than a car setup with factory fueling, etc.? I just dont know the answer to this and JHM does. I dont know a lot about ECU's. Would it please you next time if I PM YOU before asking a question on a question asking forum?

Perhaps I should have started the thread will the info about what powerplant to go with/stay with, but my main question started with the weight aspects because thats what was on my mind. How could you say im looking for attention? I barely posted anything outside of my own build thread asking for any help. I think if people werent interested in my build they would probably not response to my posts. The only reason I started a build thread to begin with is to share my experiences, again, isnt that what a forum is for?

Maybe I would have been better off buying an A4, but guess what.... I didnt have an A4. I sold most of my OEM S4 parts for money than what I would have getten from A4 parts, and that helped me in the build.

Im researching to change my motor because its the best course of action, not because I want attention.

Some of you guys are so emotional on this forum. Im just asking questions.

[bangoman]

Just wondering what 034 's opinion is? They've got some good experience with time attack builds. They've done 4,5 and 6 cyl lol.

[beemercer]

^time for a 3 cyl

[QIKRNU]

Also with the JHM SC and Headers on my car I can spin the tires if I punch it in first gear around 3K rpms from all the torque! That is with limited slip differentials (front, 4:1 center, and rear), lightweight rotors, lightweight wheels, and sticky 265/35/18 Michelin Super Sports. It is actually more difficult now to drive slowly than you would think.

I just love it when you talk like that!!

PS Got my headers.

[bangoman]

^time for a 3 cyl

My first ever car.... 3 cyl 55hp 6 valve 1.2L VW Polo. Oh yeah.

[Datadatum]

My first ever car.... 3 cyl 55hp 6 valve 1.2L VW Polo. Oh yeah.

LOL - don't feel bad. Mine was a 1976 Honda CVCC 5-door with a 1.49L 53 hp engine.

[troyguitar]

Im just asking questions.

You're not supposed to ask questions here. Just buy whatever JHM is selling and be happy about it!

[Drkside]

this forum has changed a lot since i joined.

[tylerS]

this forum has changed a lot since i joined.

and not for the better

[ess_four]

Some of you guys are so emotional on this forum. Im just asking questions.

10/10 for politeness. Some of the contributors on this thread are just being fecking eejit's. Ignore them they add no value whatsoever.

[BenSti]

and not for the better

Agreed.

[Lance.Hawk]

This is a forum, is it not? I dont see anything wrong with asking JHM a question about something on a forum, considering they are hard to get a hold of any other avenue. I also wanted to get people to chime in their ideas, without being disgruntled about it and giving me a hard time. Im sorry Im not an expert like you.

I asked questions about the ECU because I wanted to know if it was limiting what the car can do throughout its powerband, as in wont a more programmable ECU not have factory limits and be able to change various things to match MY car rather than a car setup with factory fueling, etc.? I just dont know the answer to this and JHM does. I dont know a lot about ECU's. Would it please you next time if I PM YOU before asking a question on a question asking forum?

Perhaps I should have started the thread will the info about what powerplant to go with/stay with, but my main question started with the weight aspects because thats what was on my mind. How could you say im looking for attention? I barely posted anything outside of my own build thread asking for any help. I think if people werent interested in my build they would probably not response to my posts. The only reason I started a build thread to begin with is to share my experiences, again, isnt that what a forum is for?

Maybe I would have been better off buying an A4, but guess what.... I didnt have an A4. I sold most of my OEM S4 parts for money than what I would have getten from A4 parts, and that helped me in the build.

Im researching to change my motor because its the best course of action, not because I want attention.

Some of you guys are so emotional on this forum. Im just asking questions.

Ensure you run any questions you have through Swagr prior to posting or you will be flogged!! Stop asking clown questions brah....lol Jeez this platform is becoming ridiculous....asking for opinions....posting questions...sharing experiences......what do you guys think this forum is for? Duh it is for awesome reviews of JHM and trolling those who go their own direction. For christ sake we are doing you independent thinkers a service by helping you save your hard earned money to buy more parts from a quality company. Swagr and JHM FTW!!!!

Do your thing OP don't worry about what anyone thinks. 034 knows what they are doing and in all seriousness JHM is good too. You'll be fine either way but sounds like you are going light weight smaller displacement. Good luck.

[madkimchi]

Some of you guys are so emotional on this forum. Im just asking questions.

there are ton of JHM fan boys here on this board. Unless you have a positive thing to say about JHM, i suggest you keep your mouth shut.

[Lance.Hawk]

there are ton of JHM fan boys here on this board. Unless you have a positive thing to say about JHM, i suggest you keep your mouth shut.

Whats amusing is in this case he said that he is aware of JHMs greatness and was still trolled....SMH.

[Frink]

This thread is painful to read.

This guy has put a crapload of time and money into his car. He's obviously passionate and proud about it. Let him do what he wants with it. Even if he is "looking for attention" I don't care, because he's put his money where his mouth is.

For his purposes, I think a smaller built motor could have a lot of advantages.

[Omerta]

This is a forum, is it not? I dont see anything wrong with asking JHM a question about something on a forum, considering they are hard to get a hold of any other avenue. I also wanted to get people to chime in their ideas, without being disgruntled about it and giving me a hard time. Im sorry Im not an expert like you.

I asked questions about the ECU because I wanted to know if it was limiting what the car can do throughout its powerband, as in wont a more programmable ECU not have factory limits and be able to change various things to match MY car rather than a car setup with factory fueling, etc.? I just dont know the answer to this and JHM does. I dont know a lot about ECU's. Would it please you next time if I PM YOU before asking a question on a question asking forum?

Perhaps I should have started the thread will the info about what powerplant to go with/stay with, but my main question started with the weight aspects because thats what was on my mind. How could you say im looking for attention? I barely posted anything outside of my own build thread asking for any help. I think if people werent interested in my build they would probably not response to my posts. The only reason I started a build thread to begin with is to share my experiences, again, isnt that what a forum is for?

Maybe I would have been better off buying an A4, but guess what.... I didnt have an A4. I sold most of my OEM S4 parts for money than what I would have getten from A4 parts, and that helped me in the build.

Im researching to change my motor because its the best course of action, not because I want attention.

Some of you guys are so emotional on this forum. Im just asking questions.

Well said, theres a shit load of JHM Fanboiii's getting butthurt if you think outside the box... I'm toying with the idea of doing a remote turbo as well, but still need to price out the system and plan the location. Maximizing HP/$ is the end goal, but it appears the BHF isn't cheap to even make small gains.

[Axel-]

Well said, theres a shit load of JHM Fanboiii's getting butthurt if you think outside the box... I'm toying with the idea of doing a remote turbo as well, but still need to price out the system and plan the location. Maximizing HP/$ is the end goal, but it appears the BHF isn't cheap to even make small gains.

Define small gains. Shaving off 0.5 to 1 second in the 1/4 mile for $1200 isn't too shabby IMO but everyone has a different perspective.

[madkimchi]

didn't JHM put twin turbo on S4 already before? i remember seeing their video and they were trying to fit 2 turbos right on top of the tranny. whatever happened to that?

[troyguitar]

Define small gains. Shaving off 0.5 to 1 second in the 1/4 mile for $1200 isn't too shabby IMO but everyone has a different perspective.

What knocks off that much time for $1200, stock vs tune + DIY piggies + used cheap catback?

[EUROSWAGR]

didn't JHM put twin turbo on S4 already before? i remember seeing their video and they were trying to fit 2 turbos right on top of the tranny. whatever happened to that?

Yes, and it can be done if you have 1)enough money an 2)seriously talk to JHM, just understand it will probably cost twice as much as the supercharger.

What knocks off that much time for $1200, stock vs tune + DIY piggies + used cheap catback?

I'm the 1 sec thing is kind of hopeful, but maybe he meant from a persons worst time to their best..accounting for driver improvement.

I think in a manual sedan it is more than possible to pick up .5 tenths for $1200. That honestly isn't bad for an NA engine.

[Axel-]

What knocks off that much time for $1200, stock vs tune + DIY piggies + used cheap catback?

JHM Tune: $500
Trexturk 2.5" DPs: $500
Magnaflow 2.5" X-Pipe catback: $700

You can easily shave off 0.5 seconds with that (and possibly more).

[troyguitar]

I guess if no one charges tax or shipping or labor. My assumption was that he meant it is really expensive to go beyond that. It is basically a $10k hurdle to go much beyond 300 whp. Nobody offers for example a smaller cheaper blower that maxes out at 475 chp instead of 800 or whatever. It is go big or go small, no medium size :lol:

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