Questions for JHM about SC Kit

[0000 V8]

Regarding a B6 S4 kit, stage 1.

1) Do you have any idea what the weight of the kit is, specifically, I would like to know how much weight is being added in front of the motor (for those specific components) and perhaps the additional weight of the remainder of the components.

2) Would anything change as far as capabilities of the setup (not including a built motor, obviously) if the kit was added with a custom stand-alone tune using 034EFI, instead of a JHM tune on a stock ECU? I ask because the stock ECU can have limits, and I can do a 034EFI setup with full race tune.

P.S. This is not a street car.

Thanks,

-Justin

[Jake@JHM]

Regarding a B6 S4 kit, stage 1.

1) Do you have any idea what the weight of the kit is, specifically, I would like to know how much weight is being added in front of the motor (for those specific components) and perhaps the additional weight of the remainder of the components.

2) Would anything change as far as capabilities of the setup (not including a built motor, obviously) if the kit was added with a custom stand-alone tune using 034EFI, instead of a JHM tune on a stock ECU? I ask because the stock ECU can have limits, and I can do a 034EFI setup with full race tune.

P.S. This is not a street car.

Thanks,

-Justin

Justin,

You will be adding around 50-70lbs with everything installed. As far as capabilities of the setup, are you referring to being able to make more power by using a stand-alone?

Jake

[0000 V8]

Justin,

You will be adding around 50-70lbs with everything installed. As far as capabilities of the setup, are you referring to being able to make more power by using a stand-alone?

Jake

Jake, thanks for the quick reply.

I understand the limits of the motor, I was just curious if the stock ECU limits the powerband at all. 034 has offered to do a 034EFI on my car, especially since I have a stand alone fuel system and crazy fuel pump. Any benefits you think?

I dont want to get flamed for saying this, but im researching the price comparison vs. weight amount and location for a turbo setup. I would call it a rear-mounted, but if youve seen my exhaust, it would be more of a "mid-mounted" setup residing in the area where my stock fuel cell used to be. Lots of room and I like the idea of being able to turn boost way down for events that will put me in a low race class. That with the 034EFI could prove useful, just need to work out price.

Im not trying to under rate your SC kit, just looking into other options for MY car since its very different than any of your other customers. I understand just going with the SC kit would be the most reliable, however, given my above statements and goals... I need to research. The absolute last thing I want to do is ADD 50-70lbs to the front of the motor. I would rather do a swap for a lighter motor.

Regards,

Justin

[Jake@JHM]

Jake, thanks for the quick reply.

I understand the limits of the motor, I was just curious if the stock ECU limits the powerband at all. 034 has offered to do a 034EFI on my car, especially since I have a stand alone fuel system and crazy fuel pump. Any benefits you think?

I dont want to get flamed for saying this, but im researching the price comparison vs. weight amount and location for a turbo setup. I would call it a rear-mounted, but if youve seen my exhaust, it would be more of a "mid-mounted" setup residing in the area where my stock fuel cell used to be. Lots of room and I like the idea of being able to turn boost way down for events that will put me in a low race class. That with the 034EFI could prove useful, just need to work out price.

Im not trying to under rate your SC kit, just looking into other options for MY car since its very different than any of your other customers. I understand just going with the SC kit would be the most reliable, however, given my above statements and goals... I need to research. The absolute last thing I want to do is ADD 50-70lbs to the front of the motor. I would rather do a swap for a lighter motor.

Regards,

Justin

No problem!

To be honest, we are holding back so much on our stage 1 SC kit because of what the engine can handle, going to a stand-alone will not really yield you anything other than being able to say you have a stand-alone system. We are only running our kit at 60% of its capabilities because that is what we felt is the safest power range for the BHF internals. (Keep in mind that we went through a few engines in the process of our R&D of finding safe power levels). If you went with our Built Motor Program and the stand-alone, you would have the ability of tailoring the tune to how you like it and make your own stage 2/3 + or - even though our tuning will keep you in a safe, yet very aggressive mapping.

If you do go the turbo route, the 034EFI would benefit you more than it would on our Supercharger Kit because of the amount of R&D we have put into taming the Vortech V3 unit on the BHF. Keep in mind though, you will not be able to run much boost at all without building your engine, so power per dollar is not very good if you stay stock internals.

I completely understand where you are coming from with the weight for a racing aspect.

Jake

[troyguitar]

Justin - I still think you'll go faster with a built 4-cylinder turbo. Especially since 034 has already done basically ALL of the research on their B5 time attack car.

That being said, I would love to see someone get a decent turbo setup going on the BHF. Of all people you have the best chance to do it with the gutted car and 034 connection.

[EUROSWAGR]

Wow..this guy has barely even broken in his current setup, how many track day 2? Are you racing in a legit class or is this all just hobby?

I don't get the turbo thing..there is zero room and tons of cons for a turbo setup.

[Austinfritts]

Wow..this guy has barely even broken in his current setup, how many track day 2? Are you racing in a legit class or is this all just hobby?

I don't get the turbo thing..there is zero room and tons of cons for a turbo setup.

Theres actually tons of room for a rear mount turbo, since he removed the stock fuel cell. id love to see one these turbo'd!

[B6JoeS4]

Wow..this guy has barely even broken in his current setup, how many track day 2? Are you racing in a legit class or is this all just hobby?

I don't get the turbo thing..there is zero room and tons of cons for a turbo setup.

Lol so true. Talk about an attention whore.

Stand alone EFI when the stock ECU can handle damn near anything you throw at it?? What??? Oh because race car

[troyguitar]

I could be wrong but wouldn't standalone be easier to fine tune instead of having to get JHM to rewrite tunes for you and go through their longer flashing process? If I were running a serious race car I would want to adjust tuning myself at the track in between sessions depending on air density, fuel used, class entered, etc.

Isn't ESC also impossible to defeat using the stock ECU? (short of pulling the ABS fuse which most people are afraid to do)

[EUROSWAGR]

I could be wrong but wouldn't standalone be easier to fine tune instead of having to get JHM to rewrite tunes for you and go through their longer flashing process? If I were running a serious race car I would want to adjust tuning myself at the track in between sessions depending on air density, fuel used, class entered, etc.

Isn't ESC also impossible to defeat using the stock ECU? (short of pulling the ABS fuse which most people are afraid to do)

First off, what the hell are we "fine" tuning. The Supercharger kit will make more power than his motor will ever handle in stock form...that is where you guys are making ZERO sense.

You aren't going to retune your car between lap sessions...especially when your not racing for real. People have "Real" race teams for that shit. You also aren't gonna squeeze more power out of an NA motor if the air density gets worse by tuning it yourself...and tunes like JHM will adapt real time if the air density gets better and will limit and protect the engine if it sucks.

Have we forgot that NO ONE else can tune the BHF, seriously let us argue that point. Some novice tuner on a standalone system is probably going to do one thing...screw shit up.

..and ya there is SO MUCH room for a rear mount turbo...and piping...and a decent intercooler...o wait, no there isn't

[troyguitar]

So what if we're in a class where we can't make over 350 whp and want to be as close to that as possible without going over regardless of air density? Need to be able to adjust the tune to be more aggressive when it's hot out or less aggressive when it's cold/dry, etc.

What if it rains and the car would be faster with a "rain map" that has less torque at lower RPM for less wheel spin?

What if you want to run in 2 different classes which require 2 different HP levels?

and so on... there are reasons for not being dependent on a far off tuner even if they might be "better" than you in general.

Justin has nearly infinite room in his car to do whatever. Maybe you haven't seen his threads?

[0000 V8]

Whoa, CALM DOWN guys. Im just asking questions here. Its not like my car is in pieces awaiting a turbo install. Im simply trying to plan for the future. It makes perfect sense to ask these questions NOW, before I start investing in more engine upgrades to the stock motor. I dont even know if I want to keep this motor or not.

Justin - I still think you'll go faster with a built 4-cylinder turbo. Especially since 034 has already done basically ALL of the research on their B5 time attack car.

Yes, I agree, Troy. I really dont want to get rid of the V8, so thats why Im asking the hard questions.

Wow..this guy has barely even broken in his current setup, how many track day 2? Are you racing in a legit class or is this all just hobby?

I don't get the turbo thing..there is zero room and tons of cons for a turbo setup.

Again, I need to know this stuff now so I dont waste money on building a motor that I will eventually replace. I have PLENTY of room for a setup like that.

Lol so true. Talk about an attention whore.

Really?

First off, what the hell are we "fine" tuning. The Supercharger kit will make more power than his motor will ever handle in stock form...that is where you guys are making ZERO sense.

Have we forgot that NO ONE else can tune the BHF, seriously let us argue that point. Some novice tuner on a standalone system is probably going to do one thing...screw shit up.

..and ya there is SO MUCH room for a rear mount turbo...and piping...and a decent intercooler...o wait, no there isn't

As I mentioned in my first post, Im just asking questions. Im not really looking for a "if you dont get the JHM SC youre an idiot" response. I have different goals and reasons for my car than yours, so I dont need that answer.

Also, if you dont think 034 can tune a BHF youre dead wrong. Together with there 034EFI, they wrote the book on Audi engine management when nothing existed for years on the older model cars.

I was really hoping that some of the veteran guys could put some constructive information in here but apparently all they care about is answering questions that are not even being asked and making assumptions from THEIR cars into their responses about MY car.

[Slow4]

Also, if you dont think 034 can tune a BHF youre dead wrong. Together with there 034EFI, they wrote the book on Audi engine management when nothing existed for years on the older model cars.

There's a difference between the old 4.2s versus our 4.2s versus the new FSI 4.2s.

I think it was beermercer who corrected me when I asked about the various parts on the 034 website and how they related to our 4.2s. I think what Euro was trying to say was the 034efi maps might not work for our 4.2s and therefore be at a disadvantage on your goals.

Just my .02.

[0000 V8]

There's a difference between the old 4.2s versus our 4.2s versus the new FSI 4.2s.

I think it was beermercer who corrected me when I asked about the various parts on the 034 website and how they related to our 4.2s. I think what Euro was trying to say was the 034efi maps might not work for our 4.2s and therefore be at a disadvantage on your goals.

Just my .02.

Yes, they are different. No doubt about that :)

I would in no way be purchasing premade maps from 034. It would be all custom tuning.

[AudiA4_20T]

Lots of positive attitudes in here. Really helping push the platform

[0000 V8]

Hey Clint, sorry I havent replied to your message yet. Im catching up on emails right now!

[Slow4]

I would in no way be purchasing premade maps from 034. It would be all custom tuning.

Ah, well I have zero knowledge on tuning so whatever transpires, good luck.

Also, I too don't think you have very much room back there to fit turbo(s)...if you did somehow manage to do it, they would probably be smaller than the BW-K03s and counterproductive to what you're looking to do.

EDiT:

Took me a while to realize this but going under and squeezing between crevices has made me see clearer.

[jfunkey]

034 standalone is a great system if you go crazy out of line then consider it.

As for jhm they imho would be just as excited to help you with your tuning goals. They have the ability to put multiple tunes on your ecu if they are using the apr server so you can have agressive and street.

The good thing about your current ecu...fact...I know there wss some dumb shit domestic guy that poped up a few weeks ago saying he was going to tune his ecu because he wanted a custom tune because he was not smart enough to know y9u dont meed a custom tune on these csrs...lets not let people like that be thr ones that leave the opinions they have as fact. ...lets talk facts.....

Something to think abiut on the stock ecu. Your stock ecu calibrates the tune for temps altitude and conditions. So if its hot or cold or your 2500 feet up in elevation your cars ecu is checking and changing stuff for that. I learned this last year driving across the country. The jhm tune ran flawlessly at crwzy elevation changes temp changes amd weather conditions. Mamy pwole think they are smarter rhen the ecu when in fact most of the people have a toaster that is smarter then them. I know my phone fuks up my great spelling but I stopped fighting with it.

Stand alone would then require muxh more work.....depending on how crazy you go standalone has limited benefits.....if you wsnted to tune your car then jump...034 has the best standalone sydtem by far and its grrat for the must do it yourself guy...

Tiebo vs supercharger. The rear mount tuebks have been a thing for a while with thr ls1 guys...camt say it has really tsken off...they claim no lag amd big power.....its not a great srt up.....if you can live witth several of the issies with putting the turbos in a remote spot then jimp.....

Still supercharger is instant eaiser to deliver power for track use amd more consistent. ..

[0000 V8]

Where the new mufflers are is where that sort of setup would fit. Plenty of room, as Ive said.

So people believe me in the future:



Not to mention, if needed I could cut up the rear bench for endless room.

[jfunkey]

A healthy amount of room....what did you have to do to the car in its stock state to have that much room there..

[0000 V8]

A healthy amount of room....what did you have to do to the car in its stock state to have that much room there..

Removed the stock fuel tank completely. Here is a better pic, and the the new fuel system:

[event]

I'm hoping you do the rear mounted turbos. I just wanna see it done on something that isn't a Mustang.

[jfunkey]

Removed the stock fuel tank completely. Here is a better pic, and the the new fuel system:

That really made some space...... entertainment wise I say due thr turbos remotely as I would like to see the results.....the results are not going to be any different then on the gm or fords....I never seen a musting with remotes...I jist saw the post above....

True road race wise take the sc route...the weight you moved to the trunk will be offset and its a better power delivery for track use

[event]

I've see a few. Either in the trunk or rear seat area.

[Jake@JHM]

Justin,

Another thing to consider (if you haven't done so already) is our JHM Lightweight Battery and Trunk Relocation Kit. We should be releasing it any day now and that will be able to help offset the weight of the supercharger kit, or any other option.

Jake

[iHaveBoost?]

People also shit on the idea of twin remote mounted turbos on a W8, but it happened..



Anything is possible with the right level of fabrication. But going through all that work and not being able to push them due to the limit of the engine internals would kind of be a bummer..

[jfunkey]

I've see a few. Either in the trunk or rear seat area.

Fords..... Found On Roadside Dont Start

Info wise.lets help out 000p v8. Are the remotes successful on the fords....on the gms....they have a few standouts here and there.....the most of the remote turbo projects yeald not real impressive power for all the money and hastle... 0000s car is cut so he has more rhen enough space.....

[0000 V8]

Justin,

Another thing to consider (if you haven't done so already) is our JHM Lightweight Battery and Trunk Relocation Kit. We should be releasing it any day now and that will be able to help offset the weight of the supercharger kit, or any other option.

Jake

Thanks, Jake. I actually have a lightweight Optima battery in the rear already.

[Jake@JHM]

Thanks, Jake. I actually have a lightweight Optima battery in the rear already.

Oh, right on!

[NaiveTurtle]

Wouldn't there be an extremely lag in boost from remote turbos? Both to get to start spinning faster and the increased volume of air to compress between the turbo and intake manifold?

I personally do not see any benefit over the SC with that.

**Disclaimer - I am no way anywhere near an expert on motors and have zero experience in modding engines, but i am an engineer and just looking at the above application on the VW does not like it would work well for a track situation. Maybe a bus or a semi where instant power isn't needed.

[0000 V8]

Since I have some vets in this thread, does anyone know what motors will work with our 0A3 gearboxes?

[jfunkey]

Since I have some vets in this thread, does anyone know what motors will work with our 0A3 gearboxes?

Great idea. Look for a A6 4.2 motor. Mod the front of your car go standalone and build a beast of a motor. Remotes are lagy and will be real bad depending on your power and turbo size....thats just the fscts of life. Know moving in you want a rpm motor build to offset this......ask jake if a s4 and a6 have the same spacer ring that will tell you right there.

[Jake@JHM]

Yeah, the 0A3 will bolt right up to the timing belt 4.2l V8. However, you will have to figure out which spacer will be correct for the crank sensor (most likely the 01E one), you would most likely have to use a B5 S4 flywheel/clutch. Some other concerns would be whether or not the B6 S4 starter would work and what kind of clearance you would have under the hood.

If someone is serious about this, contact me and I can get all of the correct data/measurements for this.

[0000 V8]

Great idea. Look for a A6 4.2 motor. Mod the front of your car go standalone and build a beast of a motor. Remotes are lagy and will be real bad depending on your power and turbo size....thats just the fscts of life. Know moving in you want a rpm motor build to offset this......ask jake if a s4 and a6 have the same spacer ring that will tell you right there.

J, this idea was brought to my attention before as well. From what I understand, the C5 4.2's can handle more boost as well.

[EUROSWAGR]

Lots of positive attitudes in here. Really helping push the platform

Says the most anti-BHF guy around..

[bangoman]

OP I see that you are sponsored by 034 motorsports. AFAIK they have used VR6-T, 5 cyl turbo and 4 cyl turbo cars for their Time Attack challenges. I would suggest you ask them for their expertise. If you're looking to keep the BHF V8, go full retard, i.e. the full JHM built motor. You'll easily be pushing 550hp at the wheels without breaking sweat. I'm sure the guys at 034 would also be able to give you an opinion for this. As for credible opinions in here, you've got euroswagr who is honestly a great resource for the V8 Audis, jfunkey who's been around forever, jake@jhm who's offered some good help and Audi_A420T who swapped in a V6 2.7TT to a B6 and is now selling it... oh wait

[0000 V8]

I think Im going to just start building a 2.0T stroker and be done with it. I can keep the 4.2 in until the new motor is built.

Unless I get convinced the money is worth keeping the heavy V8.

[seadoo2006]

I think Im going to just start building a 2.0T stroker and be done with it. I can keep the 4.2 in until the new motor is built.

Unless I get convinced the money is worth keeping the heavy V8.

Honestly, that's what I would do ... you're looking at a MINIMUM $25-35k to build the 4.2 to do anything more than 415ish whp AND it's still only in experimental territory ... you could throw $20k into the BHF and watch it go POP on your first lap ... Meanwhile, for $15k you could have a fully built 2.0t stroker doing 650whp that would blow the doors off of anything that the BHF is currently being built for. Not to mention the weight savings that comes from putting the smaller motor in. SOOOOOOOOO many more aftermarket options available for the 2.0t over the BHF ... I wish someone would make a rod, crack, and piston setup for this block, but it's pointless ... this engine was good for stock power and maybe a little help with the JHM S/C Kit ... but $15-20k (JHM S/C, IM, EM, clutch, flywheel, etc etc etc) just to get to 410whp is a fools race.

[JimmyBones]

I think SquiddlyB6S4 said it best a while ago: If I had the choice between a 400 wheel horsepower four cylinder or a 4.2 V8 then I would take the 4.2 V8!

Also with the JHM SC and Headers on my car I can spin the tires if I punch it in first gear around 3K rpms from all the torque! That is with limited slip differentials (front, 4:1 center, and rear), lightweight rotors, lightweight wheels, and sticky 265/35/18 Michelin Super Sports. It is actually more difficult now to drive slowly than you would think.

[Axel-]

Honestly, that's what I would do ... you're looking at a MINIMUM $25-35k to build the 4.2 to do anything more than 415ish whp AND it's still only in experimental territory ... you could throw $20k into the BHF and watch it go POP on your first lap ... Meanwhile, for $15k you could have a fully built 2.0t stroker doing 650whp that would blow the doors off of anything that the BHF is currently being built for. Not to mention the weight savings that comes from putting the smaller motor in. SOOOOOOOOO many more aftermarket options available for the 2.0t over the BHF ... I wish someone would make a rod, crack, and piston setup for this block, but it's pointless ... this engine was good for stock power and maybe a little help with the JHM S/C Kit ... but $15-20k (JHM S/C, IM, EM, clutch, flywheel, etc etc etc) just to get to 410whp is a fools race.

Uhh, non-built 4.2 JHM SC stage 1 is 420-440whp. Not sure where you got your 25k-35k figure. Stage 2 and (whenever Stage 3 comes around) are/will obviously be much higher (with a built engine). Just pointing it out.