GT3071 Turbo Build 1.8t Help

[kingkhalilz]

I'm new to the forum and might get a lot of laughs at some of my questions but i have done so much searching and haven't found any answers.
First off my goal is to achieve the most hp i can get out of a 1.8t. No race gas. This car is going to be a daily driver for me and i'm willing to put money and time into what i think will be a awesome project. What i know i need is as follows and questions after that.

Strong rods for these 1.8t Engines - i have good understanding of this
http://www.intengineering.com/integr...-20v-19mm-audi

Turbo kit - good places to get a kit(good price) would be helpful to know
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...ory_Code=VVWTK

Manifold The flanges for these confuse me t25 t3 what does this mean which one will mate with my turbo??
http://pagparts.com/product_info.php...roducts_id=582

Inter cooler
No idea for link

Intake will have to be custom of some sort
Will deal with later

Fuel presser regulator - not understood so good
No idea

injectors these should work
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...Fuel/ES252138/

Maf- for tuning the car herd a vr6 one or something
will find if i need

clutch fx 450 biggest fear and price difference is so minimal why not
http://www.ringer-racing.com/product...9&categoryId=4

fuel pump is just what i herd will work for some large hp
Walbro 255lph

exhaust- understood 3" pipe
custom

Waste gate divert-er valve this i have no idea whats going on here, is this the same as a blow off valve???
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=WGT

My questions mainly are what parts to get (cheap and efficient known to work??) i know im missing things please let me know.
any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

[ddillenger]

Why did you rule out a 2.0 build? Regain some of the low end lost by a big turbo? Not that expensive if you're already doing rods.

[UFfitz56]

Wow, a lot of questions man. I'll try to get you in the right direction but you'll definitely want to use the search function ALOT.

Definitely a good start with rods, but I wouldn't pick that turbo. Go with a full frame T3 3071r instead of the eliminator. Check out the SPA, PSI, or ATP manifold. I have no experience with them but most people don't recommend the 630cc injectors. Maybe RAI's 725cc instead? You'll need a fuel pump so check out 034motorsports' drop in pump. You can go mafless if you want to avoid the headache of intake and maf setup. You will need a wastegate unless you go with an internal wastegate t25 manifold/dp setup (psi has a nice one). Good luck man and let me know if you have any questions.

[Seerlah]

You need to do more research. For starters, don't go with the eliminator. Go with a T3 flanged turbocharger and exhaust manifold.

Is this a real build that is going to happen? Or more of a "something I want to achieve" thread? If it is the latter, you will have plenty of time to learn what needs to be done and you will educate yourself along the way. That is how it works. If it is the former, you need to take time out and figure things out. If you don't know what a T25 or T3 flange is, other stuff is just going to confuse the sh*t out of you.

If my post comes off as being derogatory, that is far from the intent. Just trying to help you out so you don't waste money, goof on your build, regret a choice, injure yourself (or others), etc .

[ddillenger]

ev14s are much better than dekas. (injectors), a bosch 044 is a good pump with lots of headroom, and I suppose since you are b6 you have wideband and CAN go mafless, but IMHO, it's a terrible idea. The maf is the primary input with me7, why cripple a good system?

[Bische]

MAFless!!!! WoooWoooo!!

[BerNur]

Since you mentioned pagparts I have their manifold and I would recommend going vbanded it's proving to be the best solution for me no worries about blown gaskets and its the new trend...

[davkav]

If I were to do it again

PSI T3 Manifold
PSI/RAI Downpipe
External Tial Wastegate
PSI 20g turbo
2.0L Stroker
3" MAF and custom tune
Injector Dynamics ID1000's

Scratch that, if I were to do it again, 2.7TT swap with K04's and call it a day.

[Seerlah]

If I could do it all over again I would have gone v band.

[iHaveBoost?]

Turbo kit - good places to get a kit(good price) would be helpful to know
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...ory_Code=VVWTK

Manifold The flanges for these confuse me t25 t3 what does this mean which one will mate with my turbo??
http://pagparts.com/product_info.php...roducts_id=582

You don't need both. You either get an eliminator turbo which bolts to the stock manifold (or a high flow stock-like manifold), or a full frame turbo which bolts to a T25/T3 manifold. You'd be better off with a T3 flanged turbo and manifold, that way you can upgrade later should the hp not be enough.

Inter cooler
No idea for link

You can get any core and make custom piping (there's a group buy in here for a Treadstone core), or you can get a kit for the B6 platform such as: Eolution Racewerks or RaceTec.

Intake will have to be custom of some sort
Will deal with later

Yup, this can be made in various ways. But as long as you're running a MAF, it's likely either a strong bend to the stock airbox location with aluminum pipe, MAF, and cone filter, or be creative and wrap it down by the support bar. Or run MAFless and have a filter right off the turbo.

injectors these should work
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...Fuel/ES252138/

Always plan to match the hardware around what tune you're getting. A 630cc file calls for 630cc injectors. Those should work, but you might want larger injectors.

Maf- for tuning the car herd a vr6 one or something
will find if i need

Again, this should be decided by your tune. You're going to need an upgraded MAF (or no MAF at all) for sure, but a tune can account for many of them (B5/B6/B7 S4, VR6, etc). Just make sure the person writing the tune knows which you are using, or use the one he tells you to use. You can buy any of them new, or pick one up off the classifieds used from either here or vortex.

Waste gate divert-er valve this i have no idea whats going on here, is this the same as a blow off valve???
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=WGT

A wastegate and blow off / diverter valve are two very different things. A wastegate is on the manifold and keeps your turbo from boosting to infinity and beyond, letting excess exhaust gasses bypass the turbo side of the turbo. You will need an external wastegate for any turbo without an internal wastegate. A blow off valve lets excess air out of the compressor side of the turbo so it doesn't get backed up. If you're running MAFless then a blow off valve is fine. If you're running a MAF, then that air is expected to be recirculated back into the system with a diverter valve, not a blow off valve.

i know im missing things please let me know

You're missing probably the most important - tuning. All of this hardware will be useless if you don't have software to match. You can tune yourself of a basefile with Eurodyne Maestro, or get an off the shelf tune from Unitronic/Revo/whoever else does BT files.





The rest you seem to understand. But from typing this out I learned that you did NOT research to the fullest extent, as each of these topics has been beaten to death, resurrected, and subsequently re-bludgeoned.

cheap and efficient known to work?

There is no such thing. These parts are not cheap. You'll be in it for a solid $4-5k easy, parts only.

Have fun with it

[daihashi]

If you're interested in a PSI T3 manifold.. then I may have one I'll be selling soon. It's never been used. PM me if you're interested, it's definitely a very nice manifold.

[M-Hood]

I'm new to the forum and might get a lot of laughs at some of my questions but i have done so much searching and haven't found any answers.
First off my goal is to achieve the most hp i can get out of a 1.8t. No race gas. This car is going to be a daily driver for me and i'm willing to put money and time into what i think will be a awesome project. What i know i need is as follows and questions after that.

Strong rods for these 1.8t Engines - i have good understanding of this
http://www.intengineering.com/integr...-20v-19mm-audi

Good starting point. Pistons only need to be changed if you want to upgrade to the 20mm wrist rod/piston setup, if you need to go to increase the cylinder size or if you want to change to a different compression. Changing to an aftermarket piston of the same size and CR will gain you nothing but less money to spend on other needed mods.

Turbo kit - good places to get a kit(good price) would be helpful to know
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...ory_Code=VVWTK

That turbo will not work with the manifold below, it is designed for your stock manifold or a high flowing manifold stock placement manifold.

Manifold The flanges for these confuse me t25 t3 what does this mean which one will mate with my turbo??
http://pagparts.com/product_info.php...roducts_id=582

The flange size/design is the inlet of the turbo and the flange size that connects it to the manifold. If you go T25 you have to use a manifold that has a T25 4 bolt style flange, if you go T3 then a T3 style manifold and if you go V-band the manifold has to have a V-band flange.

Inter cooler
No idea for link

You will need the correct size FMIC that will match the flow of the turbo, if you want a fully kit with pipes then there are a few kits including the ER comp which will handle everything the GT3071r can put out.

Intake will have to be custom of some sort
Will deal with later

Fuel presser regulator - not understood so good
No idea

B6 is a non fuel return system with the OEM FPR back at the fuel filter, you do not have to worry about getting a FPR unless you plan on doing a custom fuel rail and are looking to convert to a fuel return system like the B5 A4.

injectors these should work
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...Fuel/ES252138/

The Bosch EV14 and Bosch Racing are the best injector on the market at this time, it has a smaller droplet size which means the fuel will atomize much better then the older style injectors.

Maf- for tuning the car herd a vr6 one or something
will find if i need

You need to figure out which tuning you will go with first and then the tuner will tell you what MAF setup you will need.

clutch fx 450 biggest fear and price difference is so minimal why not
http://www.ringer-racing.com/product...9&categoryId=4

Will the car be daily driven and will you be launching it or taking it to the track? Because you will want to match the clutch to what the car will be used for and the power it is making.

fuel pump is just what i herd will work for some large hp
Walbro 255lph

That pump will work, but the Bosch 005 or 044 pump can be bought in a drop in kit and flow much better then the Walbro. Other options would be the 340lph and 400lph pumps but they need a relay and be wired directly to the battery since they pull more power.

exhaust- understood 3" pipe
custom

Waste gate divert-er valve this i have no idea whats going on here, is this the same as a blow off valve???
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=WGT

The link is for a wastegate which is used to control how much exhaust gas flows thru the turbo and this help control how much boost the turbo makes. That one is usually used with a turbo that does not have a internal wastegate. A diverter valve or bypass valve is the valve that goes between your turbo and throttle body to release the pressure when the throttle closes.

My questions mainly are what parts to get (cheap and efficient known to work??) i know im missing things please let me know.
any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

What you could do is find a place where you can get a bunch of the stuff you want and see if you can get a package price for them to help you save some money.

[davkav]

If you're interested in a PSI T3 manifold.. then I may have one I'll be selling soon. It's never been used. PM me if you're interested, it's definitely a very nice manifold.

Rich whats with the sig?

[daihashi]

Rich whats with the sig?

It's more of a joke/sarcasm. Although there is some truth to the "worst looking car on Audizine" part, a ford taurus decided to torpedo into my driverside quarter panel, but I'm working on getting that squared away.

Hopefully I'll have the entire panel and wheel well replaced before the end of next month. Time is scarce so I'm just working on it little by little.

[davkav]

It's more of a joke/sarcasm. Although there is some truth to the "worst looking car on Audizine" part; but I'm working on getting that squared away.

Ah, I thought I missed something and someone was busting your balls so to speak. Ah it cant be the worst now, I've seen some bangers on here.

Anyway going off topic. OP I suppose you need to put down a goal horsepower figure and then people could probably point you in a better direction as to what parts may suit.

[iHaveBoost?]

What you could do is find a place where you can get a bunch of the stuff you want and see if you can get a package price for them to help you save some money.

x2, talk to 034 for something and see if they'll put together a bulk order for turbo, manifold, downpipe, oil/coolant lines, intercooler, injectors, fuel pump, MAF, etc etc. Or use the 10% coupon that PSi has - I didn't realize that 10% is actually significant until I had $1k+ worth of parts in my cart.

I wouldn't have typed out my huge thing if I knew you were. Same answers though ;)

[victimdumper]

a ford taurus decided to torpedo into my driverside quarter pane

still amazed every time i see that picture that there was no suspension damage

[dougyfresh]

Just by my set-up.

http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/...?product=84220

PM me and we'll figure something out.

[kingkhalilz]

Wow so fast thanks everyone for posting. So only a few questions left,
A 2.0 would require new pistons and just more money that i think would bust my budget.
full frame T3 3071r now is convincing
different injectors match the tune and maf if one to match the tune.
how would the car regulate the air without an maf??
vbanded manifold now
diverter valve also seeing as i will probably not go mafless
...once again thanks everyone for helping
I do have time before this project starts, its going to be a summer project and i will have complete pictures and all that jumbo
dougyfresh, that would be great for someone but at this time im not planning on that

[daihashi]

Wow so fast thanks everyone for posting. So only a few questions left,
A 2.0 would require new pistons and just more money that i think would bust my budget.
full frame T3 3071r now is convincing

I haven't seen you ask the following question: How important is acceleration from a dead stop, or low rpm 1st/2nd gear to you? When do you want your peak torque to hit?

Given that this is a daily driver, sometimes being able to get out of the way; when you're vulnerable such as like when you're at a stop or in a low gear/low rpm situation, at a moments notice is important.

[AudiA4_20T]

dougyfresh, that would be great for someone but at this time im not planning on that

You will spend twice as much trying to achieve the same thing

OP, what is your budget? How much power do you want to make?

[kingkhalilz]

Acceleration from dead stop is important , i dont mind having to rev it a little bit 1st and 2nd,
peak torque up later. not saying i dont want there to be no torque from low rpm of course but when i gotta go i want er to go.
I will for sure and not saying im going to beat the car to death but she should be able to take Some big launches. hence the clutch kit

[kingkhalilz]

I dont want to put a number on power but my budget is at $5,000
I think it would be funner for me to get all new parts, im not saying i dont trust dougy im sure its all fine but at this point in time im still trying to figure out what build i even want. that was the reason for this post. Like i said im not starting till summer and i wont buy till summer. i believe in doing things once and correct the first time. Therefore researching what build i want will be a rough decision and getting all my little questions answered is primary goal. when it comes time if that's the exact build i want it will be a serious consideration. thanks guys

[A4SoftWalker]

You don't need no 2.0 to deal with traffic.
Nice to have but not needed for a fast car.
There are other rat-holes to throw ur money down. Spend it on something/one else.

See the EuroCode 3071 1.8L build here:

[screwball]

$5000 should be able to net you the hardware, but not hardware and installation. Honestly if you do it once you should do it right. Redoing your turbo kit will cost a lot more doing it twice, there's lots of people on here that would agree.

[M-Hood]

You don't need no 2.0 to deal with traffic.
Nice to have but not needed for a fast car.
There are other rat-holes to throw ur money down. Spend it on something/one else.

See the EuroCode 3071 1.8L build here:

Hey I know that car, I haven't heard from JoJo in a long time.

[daihashi]

well just for reference, here are some dyno's of a tuned k03 and a 3071. The K03 hits 210ft/lbs torque @ ~2700rpm. The 3071 hits 210ft/lbs of torque @ 4200-4300 rpm. The 3071r skyrockets from there but it gives you an idea of the wait time you have before the power really starts to kick in.

K03:



GT3071R




A GTRS will shift the onset of torque by about 1000rpm, and overall engine response below 2500 rpm is much better. Just some food for thought on how much power you actually want while still retaining daily driver characteristics. An alternative to making 3071r power and retaining low end response would be to move to an EFR 6258/6758... but that is a more expensive setup:

[daihashi]

Note, that I'm not saying don't go with a 3071r. Just saying that you should consider this when thinking about how you want your daily driver to feel. For some people the lag is acceptable, for others they wish they had a quicker low end response. I guess driving conditions where you live could also influence your decision. i.e. lots of traffic or many traffic lights, vs light traffic and open roads without many stop lights.

[AudiA4_20T]

I dont want to put a number on power but my budget is at $5,000
I think it would be funner for me to get all new parts, im not saying i dont trust dougy im sure its all fine but at this point in time im still trying to figure out what build i even want. that was the reason for this post. Like i said im not starting till summer and i wont buy till summer. i believe in doing things once and correct the first time. Therefore researching what build i want will be a rough decision and getting all my little questions answered is primary goal. when it comes time if that's the exact build i want it will be a serious consideration. thanks guys

That's enough for a K04... Here's a rule of thumb.

275whp = $5k (assuming not all brand new everything)
350whp = $10k
400whp = $15k

Then it all becomes relative

[daihashi]

That's enough for a K04... Here's a rule of thumb.

275whp = $5k (assuming not all brand new everything)
350whp = $10k
400whp = $15k

Then it all becomes relative

Being patient, buying used parts on the classifieds, and doing your own fabrication work and engine build work can also lower the overall cost a decent amount.

Wasn't directing that at you Clint... I know that you know this :).

It was more of a note to the OP. If he has the ability, or a spare engine he doesn't mind tinkering with then he might want to try waiting for some good *used* deals... doing the drop in rods (all teardown associated with it) and turbo install himself.

Another thing to mention, and this is something that most people overlook, is the cost of a flywheel/clutch setup that can hold the power you're looking to put down.

[AudiA4_20T]

yes paying a shop to do this adds to costs exponentially

[spindoctor]

Could save some cash by running the Comp Turbo entry level CT5556 billet comp JB cartridge.

[kingkhalilz]

Like i said this is a summer project for me, i will definitely do all the work on the car, i realize there will be a lag for the real power at about 4,000 rpm thanks for keeping me aware of this. That will not be a big issue for me. softwalker are you suggesting i copy that build?
As of right now the 3071r is going to be my go to. unless another turbo can compare to its power at a lower rpm and higher rpm.
i'm not going to bore this thing out at this point. thanks guys and for the graphs nice to see

[screwball]

PAG has a billet wheel for the 3071Rs and there's also the GTX models.

Some vids here of a 2.0 transverse cupra on the PAG Vband - B3071R setup.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ld-PPT-GT3071R

[screwball]

The gopro mic is on the filter/inlet, that's why it sounds so nuts.

[AudiA4_20T]

Like i said this is a summer project for me, i will definitely do all the work on the car, i realize there will be a lag for the real power at about 4,000 rpm thanks for keeping me aware of this. That will not be a big issue for me. softwalker are you suggesting i copy that build?
As of right now the 3071r is going to be my go to. unless another turbo can compare to its power at a lower rpm and higher rpm.
i'm not going to bore this thing out at this point. thanks guys and for the graphs nice to see

Copying that build will probably set you back ~$20k. You will not have a 3071R running on your car in your budget, period.

[A4SoftWalker]

Like i said this is a summer project for me, i will definitely do all the work on the car, i realize there will be a lag for the real power at about 4,000 rpm thanks for keeping me aware of this. That will not be a big issue for me. softwalker are you suggesting i copy that build?
As of right now the 3071r is going to be my go to. unless another turbo can compare to its power at a lower rpm and higher rpm.
i'm not going to bore this thing out at this point. thanks guys and for the graphs nice to see

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
Stick to those basics and good things should happen.
We all know the components in that build there is nothing in there that is 20K.
I know for the fact the software was $2500-3500???
Everything else has been done u should not have to pay for any secret sauce injectors or fuel pumps. Just get what we know works on here. Bosch044 for example.
Using the newer Garrett GTX turbos will lower your spool rpms significantly.
There are no dynos that I know of for our engines with the newer tech Garrett GTX3071R.
Theoretically that should spool like an APR BT build.

[spindoctor]

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.
Stick to those basics and good things should happen.
Using the newer Garrett GTX turbos will lower your spool rpms significantly.
There are no dynos that I know of for our engines with the newer tech Garrett GTX3071R.
Technically that should spool like the APR BT build.

Well.. by the looks of it, spool won't be any better but maybe worse according to ATP. It has been discussed before that a full blade comp wheel would come in handy at higher pressure ratios.

[Seerlah]

OP, you will find out soon enough just how much things will cost you. I don't even want to know the money I have placed into my car so far. Would leave me feeling like this...

If wanting to buy things brand new, your cost of your build just went up 25% at the very least. Not doing your own labor, that is a whole other story. If you want to go on the route of saving money and then doing it all on one shot, save up to $10,000 and go from there. You are not planning on a simple turbo slap on and go. Your route is not really a cheap one. Not with this vehicle at least. Figure with your budget of $5,000 and buying things brand new, your turbo alone will cost you $1250. Add on a brand new complete clutch kit for $1,200 and you are already ~$2,500 into your budget. See where this is going? Let's tack on a turbo manifold and downpipe at around $800 (being nice) and now we are at $3,300. Add forged rods in the mix for $450, and now we are at $3,750. OTS tune for $600 (being nice again) and now we are at $4,350. Not much money left over for all your supporting mods. These add up really quick. And then things like gaskets, bolts, couplers, fluids, etc will nickel and dime the crap out of you (could be a couple hundred depending what you are doing to your car).

There is nothing wrong with buying used. I purchased a sh*t ton of used stuff for my build. You should really consider it.

[daihashi]

Let's break it down to just the cost of the big parts:

PSI Manifold: $299 + Shipping
IE Drop in Rods: $449 + Shipping
044 Fuel Pump: $300
630 - 725cc inj.: $200-300
CM FXseries clutch + Flywheel: $1000-1200
GT3071r: $1300-1400
Full 3" turbo-back Exhaust: $1000 - 1500
ER Comp FMIC: $1400
Chip Tune: $900

Estimated total: $7000-7500

This doesn't include fasteners, fluids, bearings, piston rings, gaskets, oil/coolant lines, diverter valve, timing belt, and the cost to address any other maintenance items that need to be fixed. Those costs can add up very quickly... add another 1-2k.

There are many other things I'm not including that could/should be done.. and pricing was probably ballparked closer to the very low end. You're already near $10k for that build. It doesn't include any labor or machine work that you might need. Nor does it include shipping costs.

You'll also need better brakes and suspension pieces to go with your new found power.

$5k is unreasonable for a 3071r.... You could go GTRS for that amount of money though.