Monty’s Single Turbo -> Back to Twins (Compound)

[krunkle]

It does look serious! Nice manifolds. I’m curious as to which turbo you chose?

I’d be interested in that longer 1st gear mod you did. Please send me a PM if that is an option.

[Monty23]

Trans only lasted 500 miles and 2nd gear ate itself... sorry to say, so back to stock gearing for now. Turbo is an s369sxe T4 1.0AR. Shooting for 900whp and 140+mph in the 1/4. Hoping the qsv and 3.0L helps her come alive before 5krpm. Once I get things going here I'll post all the details of the winter build.

[slow ride]

Its pretty cool if you guys use a stock ecu output to control the valve. Keep the up pipes in the 2” range no need to go monster it will just hurt spool. With the better manifolds and what not I’m not even sure you need the qsv, but either way it will be cool to check out.

[Monty23]

The up pipe will be 1.75" 16 gauge to limit diameter changes pre turbine (energy loss for spool). I went with a T4 since the qsv limits flow in that port, so the t4 version shouldn't be too much of a restriction, otherwise I would have went with a divided T3 which those ports would have matched up better to my 1.75" up pipe tubing. We will see how it works, I'll change it up if it ends up being a restriction.

[slow ride]

Nice sounds good. BEL block with girdle or AZR block?

[Monty23]

BF block with griddle and plugged welded main windows. I'll share details when I'm done.

[krunkle]

That’s a bummer on that 2nd gear. Looked like a promising solution to our stock ratio. Any leads on other routes?

Sounds like a solid build. I’m doing the same with the bottom end. Should be enough to hold it together…but I guess we will find out, haha.

I’ve enjoyed watching your progression throughout the years, always good work 👍

[Silverex]

BF block with griddle and plugged welded main windows. I'll share details when I'm done.

Sweet!! Excited to see pics of the plugged mains.

[Monty23]

Maybe I'll even make that DIY video someone asked Jared to do (jokingly) years ago.

[Caddylack]

I'm tuned in.

A stroker is in my long term plans, so I will be sitting in the front row taking notes.

[Monty23]

Finally getting some traction on this project:

Plugged Main Web - CHECK
Next up is the machine shop - HOPEFULLY the line bore comes out ok after the welding process here.

[Silverex]

Thanks for unloading some pics!! Do you plan on leaving them as is or do you have more modifications in mind?

I really doubt there will be any issues after a proper line bore so hopefully you are good to go!

[Monty23]

The machine shop will need to determine if the plugs need any additional clearancing for the piston skirts with the 6.4mm extra stroke (3.0L crank) and my custom pistons. I just need to finish deburring/breaking sharp edges/etc. before dropping her off at BMS on Saturday with all my internal goodies. I also have a 2.5 TDI oil pump on its way from the UK that will need some mods to be fitted.

So to summarize the short block build:
Plugged/Welded BF Block
Forged I-Beam RS4 Rods with 3/8 ARP2000 bolts, VW VR6 rod bearings (same as RS4 rod bearings)
Diamond custom 82mm 2618 10:1 pistons with comp height adjusted for 92.8mm stroke 3.0L crank, supposedly good for 1500hp in supra applications (same design)
VAST Girdle kit (ARP main studs)
2.5 TDI oil pump

I changed directions on the turbo kit. Ditching the spool valve idea...
I am building a custom up-pipe from my AGM tubular manifolds that feed my PT6062 with a small T3 hotside. Then my PT6062 will feed a BWS372SXE. Should be enough turbo to push the block and see if my mods are enough to keep these blocks together at 1000whp and good midrange for a streetcar...
I also have R33 4.11 R200 rear diff on stand by if it comes to that

[Silverex]

Seems like a very stout shortblock you got in the works!!

Are the Diamond pistons their “rebel” series that comes with pin buttons? We’re they custom or an OTS offering?

[Monty23]

Diamond didn't have an ots option from what I was told.

[Monty23]

Time to start building the new turbo kit.

Step one, pull the engine and cut that secondary firewall out to see how much room we can make

Then I'll mock up the new manifolds and start tacking tubing together. Should be fun. I'll post pictures as I progress.

[CELison]

Hell yeah

[Monty23]

Made some small steps in the right direction this week.

- Pulled the current engine out.
- Mocked the manifolds up and bolted up a spare 01E housing so I can start mapping the new compound setup.
- Removed the secondary firewall to make it easier to fit everything.
- Special thanks to Marnell for this excellent video that made this process very straightforward.
- Video -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTrtgRQltgE
- Also, his LS B5 S4 is a complete animal!! Check it out on youtube!!

On to the pics. Enjoy.




















Just some primer here to keep the rust away. Everything will be getting painted silver again.




These manifolds are a work of art! (and don't worry, these are just a spare set of stock heads)

[krunkle]

Making good progress 👍

What are those manifolds made for? I looked on their website but didn’t see them listed. What size piping are they out of curiosity?

[Monty23]

I asked Andre, the owner of AGM, to custom make them for me (which was a very straightforward request). They are his standard b5 s4 twin turbo manifolds with 1.75" vibrant vbands welded on to the end of the collectors. They are 38.4mm ID primaries to the collectors, which is about perfect since the 2.8 heads have 38mm ID outlet ports. I'll do some light port matching to make them perfect.

My thought process is 38mm = 1.5" primaries. 1.5" -> 1.63ID (1.75"OD 16GA) = ~8.6% change in diameter (so that is under the 10% rule). Should be good to maintain velocity and spool characteristics on the high pressure turbo (PT6062) while providing enough flow for the top end goals with the low pressure turbo (BWs372sxe). If the 6062 doesn't pickup 500 rpm min response like I am expecting with the 10:1CR and the 92.8mm crank, I'll bump down to a PT5858 which I already know will be perfect. But I already have the PT6062, so I'll just start with him.

[krunkle]

Good stuff there, thanks for the info.

Looking forward to seeing how you plumb the compound setup.

[tate182]

Loving the progress and all the good info on this thread keep up the great work!


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[Monty23]

Only got to put a few hours in late yesterday after coming back from vacation. But I got the turbos mounted. The high-pressure exhaust is going to feed into the low-pressure turbine between the pass frame rail and engine mount. Then the low-pressure turbo will exhaust into a 3" downpipe that will transition to 3.5". All this is happening on the passenger side so I'll need to carefully plan out my plumbing so it all fits.

Progress pics:


(3.5" downpipe off the low-pressure turbo in the photo is to ensure I have plenty of clearance,
but that won't fit very well, so it will end up being 3" right off the turbo housing)

[Monty23]

This is getting real tight!

[Monty23]

All tacked up. The recir wastegate that controls the small turbo and then feeds the big guy really worked out nice and it will be super easy to access. I couldn't fit a flex joint on her, so hopefully she holds for a while. I still need to add in the wastegate that controls the big guy. I read that someone had luck controlling boost on the low pressure turbo with the wastegate before the small high pressure turbo, so that's what I am planning to do. It will go off the driver side where there is plenty of room and then I am going to run the dump tube down where the DS downpipe would be and tie back into my 3.5" exhaust.

[q_dubz]

Monty hurry up :D

[Monty23]

Monty hurry up :D

I'm finding my stride now and I think I'm through the harder part of the build.
The hot side plumbing is way more important than the cold side IMO, so I think things should go much quicker now that I can focus on the easier stuff.
But you know from your build, it's all the little details that take forever.

My short list:
-Build hot side turbo setup -> 90% complete
-Rebuild exhaust
-Build cold side plumbing
-Mount and integrate new FMIC - I am thinking a Treadstone TRST9 and coming straight into the throttle body through the hood latch area (still TBD though).
-Loop hydraulic rack and integrate my Prius Electric steering column
-Design/build bracket and idler pulley to replace PS pump
-Rebuild and rerun my engine harness
-Tear my trans back down and fix notchy/grinding 2nd gear

Further down the road:
-Swap in the beefed up - high compression - stroker bottom end
-Build cradle and install R33 skyline rear diff
-Install front LSD
-Look for a new 1-2 gearing solution with a beefed-up chevy spline input shaft
-Maybe fix heater core someday


Treadstone TRST9:
If anyone is interested, according to the sales rep that got back to me - the complete dimensions including the lips are: 27 Long x 15 High x 3.5 Thick.


EDIT: yeah, this IC will not work without more cutting than I am comfortable with... Sticking with a horizontal flow IC.

[Monty23]

Well, I'm slowly learning TIG welding. Using an AHP 201 at mainly 65 amps, furick #12 and #16 cups, .045" 308L filler, 16 gage tubing. I'm finally starting to not be terrible! I've got about 8 solid hours here between practice and full send on the real parts I'm trying to weld. And I'm finally getting decent at using travel speed and filler to control the puddle which feels so good.

And in other news, my machine shop hasn't touched by bottom end yet after several months...

[Audi_Sport]

damn nice.
keep up the good work, this gives me the motivation to begin my single turbo 2.9L Build

[Monty23]

Thanks, man, good luck with your build and post some pictures along the way!

[Monty23]

Got my up pipe to the small turbo and the cross-over pipe to the big turbo all welded up. Just a few little odds and ends to weld up and it will be ready to test fit back in the car. Then I'll start on the cold side piping and I get to learn how to tig aluminum

[Monty23]

Picked up a used good 01e to hold me over since mine has a hurt second (crunches 2nd when cold). Also got my 2nd wastegate fab'd in. I think it's going to work great there. Now I am officially ready to test fit this in the bay. That will let me see what needs to be done to get the 3.5 inch down pipe past the trans.

[VMCB5S4]

Loving this! Good luck with the test fit!


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[krunkle]

Great progress! Should take a page from ltipke’s build and form some aluminum/sheet metal cut, formed, and mounted to the motor/transmission so you know boundaries.

[Monty23]

Good point and I though about doing that, but decided with leaving my old trans in the car and just taking measurements as needed would be overall less work.

[Monty23]

Well, I test fit the new setup and she almost fits. I need to adjust my passenger side flex pipe placement since it is hitting the steering rack















And we have contact!?!


...
...But on the bright side, the photo above shows I have room to adjust the flex to a more favorable location

[Monty23]

Modified the up pipe flex location and now she fits great!!!

You can see the diagonal sharpie line where the flex was originally in this pic.





And she's in, engine and trans mounts secured.

[krunkle]

Great progress and quick fix. Clearly you’re enjoying the new fab skills! Looking forward to updates.

[VMCB5S4]

That exhaust plumbing is wild! For the larger turbo, are you planning to run an inlet screen since there is no room to fit a filter? I'm not sure how you're routing intake side piping.


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[Monty23]

Great progress and quick fix. Clearly you’re enjoying the new fab skills! Looking forward to updates.

Thanks! Yes, welding is very fun when it's going well, and very frustrating when it's not! I am finally getting the feel/rhythm though.

That exhaust plumbing is wild! For the larger turbo, are you planning to run an inlet screen since there is no room to fit a filter? I'm not sure how you're routing intake side piping.

I am going to try and fit a 4 inch 90*, but worst case I will just run a small mushroom filter. Small pressure drops won't be a big deal because of the compound nature, I will be able to make a ton of boost without really pushing these turbos.

Total manifold boost pressure = pressure ratio of turbo 1 multiplied by pressure ratio of turbo 2. See https://takemebeyondthehorizon.wordp...ressure-ratio/ to learn more about pressure ratios if you are interested.

So, with the small turbo at 16psi and big turbo at 6 psi:
Small turbo PR = (16psig + 14.7psia) / (14.7psia) = 2.09
Big turbo PR = (6psig + 14.7psia) / (14.7psia) = 1.41
Total manifold boost = 2.09 * 1.41 = 2.95 * 14.7 = 43.4psia - 14.7 = 28.7 pisg

And with the small turbo at 16psi and big turbo at 16 psi:
Small turbo PR = (16psig + 14.7psia) / (14.7psia) = 2.09
Big turbo PR = (16psig + 14.7psia) / (14.7psia) = 2.09
Total manifold boost = 2.09 * 2.09 = 4.368 * 14.7 = 64.2psia - 14.7 = 49.5 pisg

So basically I'll have no problem making boost even if part of the system isn't ideal and has higher pressure drop than I would like. I can always add a little more boost to compensate.
And this is all theory at the moment since I don't actually have any experience with compound turbos, but I plan to confirm all this soon