Stage 2+ to APR K04 upgrade worth it?

[Jhashim]

Hey guys,

I've never driven or road in a car 2.0t that was more upgraded then stage 2+, so need some advise.

I'm think I'm gonna do a turbo upgrade, but top priority is reliability/drivability (I don't have the ability to work on my own car..) So I guess the obvious choice is the APR K04 upgrade, but its pretty $$ so curious what others though went making the jump from stage 2+ to the K04 (or even stage 3).

Everyone's input would be greatly appreciated.

[jimrobbington]

For the money, no, APR k04 is not the way to go. For the same amount, you could have a much better custom setup with a K0r and Maestro, or a gtx turbo

Sent from my porcelain throne.

[Jhashim]

So your saying for the money it's not the most powerful kit... But are there any other kits that are as reliably and daily drivability?
I read a few kor-gt build threads and seemed like there were issues on a few. What do you think is the best complete kit, with power and reliability and daily drivability.

[ericpaulyoung]

For flush fit right out of the box, the APR kit would be a great choice. All the other kits are more "custom" and require tweaking to get right. The more power you go for, the more "custom" it will be, and the more work to get right it will take. So if your criteria is plug and play power, then the APR kit would be top of the list for me.

Does the APR K03/K04 hybrid make good power, yup. It is the same as any other hybrid that mates a K04 assembly onto the K03 cold side. The one exception is the CTS kit, which is an actual S3 K04 full on, with the exhaust flange ears trimmed. They all have the same compressor and turbine, so which makes more power is really a toss up, so just choose the company you like or that is closest to you and provides the most support. That last part is important, so don't over look it.

Will the S3 K04 or a K04 hybrid produce as much power as even the smallest GTX, nope. Well that depends, if you run both the smallest GTX (2863 is what I would consider the smallest for our cars) and the K04 at 20 psi, they are comparable and I would just run the K04 kit as it will look more OEM and can be made to be smooth very easily. If you start pushing the limits of the turbos, the GTX will blow the K04 out of the water. A K04 will not hold over 22 psi past 5k rpms without really going outside the efficiency for the compressor (there are some maps on here if you search). Now the GTX will happily hold 28 psi straight out until you decide to let off the gas (I have tested this with only 75 duty cycle!!).


- Eric

[Jhashim]

Thanks Eric, very helpful. I was reading your build thread, crazy car you built. I'm not looking to get that deep, so I guess I'm between the k04 APR kit. The stock internals should be fine with that right? If anything, drop in rods? How much extra time does it take to put stronger rods in?

[ericpaulyoung]

DO RODS. At least some drop ins. Our cars have shitty rods and it should be considered mandatory for any stage III build.
Eric

[ericpaulyoung]

If you do it yourself it costs about $500 for rods, bearings, gaskets, and fluids (round number). I Would plan a solid weekend at least, and two weekends just to be safe and take your time. If you pay someone, add a grand for labor if the shop costs are about $50 an hour and add 2 grand at a dealer or any place charging $100 an hour. About the cost of some custom exhaust systems.

[Jhashim]

what about for the K04 kit, do you needs rods for that? or are ths stock internals ok for the tune/kit

I have zero mechanical ability so i have to have m shop do any work to my car.

I'm also thinking I need a fmic (is the AWE worth the extra $ in your opinion?) and a cluth (still on the stock cluth holding strong @ 100K) so that is also weighing in on my decision.. I guess I'm mostly leaning towards the APR K04 kit, just wondering if others felt dissapointed coming from stage 2+

[Jhad]

I had apr k04 on my gti. It was a fun daily car, and I went through the progression stage 1,2,2+, k04. Worth it? IMO yes. Any more and I would have some traction issues.

For the b7 I went with cts turbo k04- I am tip, and didn't want to stress my trans too much(yet) plus my budget didn't allow for larger turbo and internals at the moment. I can't give a review yet, installation will be finished tomorrow- but so far install was perfect, came with a bigger test pipe than my apr tp and I saved money compared to apr. I bought the turbo, fmic, and maestro for less than the apr kit, and I sourced injectors from Drake at a great price.

If you are expecting huge numbers, then you could be disappointed. If you take it for what it is, and expect a solid, fun, and dependable turbo, then you may not be. Find someone local and go for a drive with them or something.

[ericpaulyoung]

My S3 K04 with Maestro tune was much faster than the K03 Stage II+, especially up top.

- Eric

[Jhad]

^ agreed. I loved it on my gti. Hoping for the same tomorrow lol

[Firefox250]

^ agreed. I loved it on my gti. Hoping for the same tomorrow lol

Looking forward to seeing some pictures of your new setup, and some dyno numbers. I plan on doing the same set as you and Seal66.

[Jhad]

For sure. I was debating a build thread. I have never done one before, but I will get some pics at least. I need to move to Colorado- seems like half of the zine is out there lol

[mec]

Gtx28 or go home!

[saucyzest]

^ agreed. I loved it on my gti. Hoping for the same tomorrow lol

Be interested in hearing an update on how it went. Also, which HPFP do you have?

I'm seriously a k04 now that I've pretty much scrapped my plan for a summer "project" car. Not sure if id want CTS or APR. APR is easier for me bc I'm already tuned by them and have an 034 HFC, so I'd be able to keep that but it also is more $$$...

[crazytex21]

Gtx28 or go home!

This

[ericpaulyoung]

GTX = Definitely more power, definitely more work.

[Operator]

Gtx28 or go home!

I'll take an order of EFR please sir!

[Stewy]

Even though it was pricey, I've been happy with the Stage III kit from APR. Only issues I've had since I installed it have been a new MAF and primary o2...I've put almost 10,000 kms on the kit since the upgrade earlier in the year. As said above, you might want to consider going bigger. There's lots of guys running BT setups that are very reliable and streetable. That being said, you'll be happy with any turbo upgrade...at least for a little while!

[Operator]

That being said, you'll be happy with any turbo upgrade...at least for a little while!

[ericpaulyoung]

Ask APR to use the GTX in their stage III kit. Direct drop in and they should do it for the same cost I would expect.
Eric

[saucyzest]

Not trying to thread jack from the OP but like Jhad, I'm also a Tip so wouldnt it be better for me to stick to the k04 vs gtx? This is my DD so reliability is important.

[ericpaulyoung]

2 words
Manual Swap

[groundround]

i just purchased the apr s3 k04 $3600. I am not doing drop rods and the shop recommended that it really is not needed unless i went to the stg3 k04 they sell for 5300. Also the shop is doing the install for $300 which i could not pass up. I figured the s3 k04 is good enough for the daily without going to crazy.

[Jhashim]

More than just all out power, I'm more into low end initial get up and go. So wonder if the K04 is the better option for that?

[Jhashim]

i just purchased the apr s3 k04 $3600. I am not doing drop rods and the shop recommended that it really is not needed unless i went to the stg3 k04 they sell for 5300. Also the shop is doing the install for $300 which i could not pass up. I figured the s3 k04 is good enough for the daily without going to crazy.

Where did you pick that kit up, and what shop is doing the install for $300. Seems like a real good deal.

Anyone have a general idea of how long the s3 K04 kit takes to install?

[ericpaulyoung]

There is no stage II K04 and stage III K04

DO RODS!

[groundround]

there is the (website) s3 k04 and the stg3 k04? one is a lot more aggressive than the other.

[groundround]

Where did you pick that kit up, and what shop is doing the install for $300. Seems like a real good deal.

Anyone have a general idea of how long the s3 K04 kit takes to install?

Banchworks in RI they charge you the price it is online and $50 an hour (6 hrs) if you buy the kit through them and have them install it. They did camotos s3 ko4 install he has had no problems running it for a long time now with stockk internals. Only issue he had was with his transmission being tip.

[ericpaulyoung]

Stage III is simply identifying that you installed a larger turbo. Similar to II+ indicating upgraded fueling. Stage III is anything between a K04 and a GTX3076R.
Eric

[groundround]

Ok i understand that just stating that there are two different options from apr. One producing more power than the other and with the s3 k04 and using the tune they provide there should be need to upgrade rods.

[Jhad]

Be interested in hearing an update on how it went. Also, which HPFP do you have?

I'm seriously a k04 now that I've pretty much scrapped my plan for a summer "project" car. Not sure if id want CTS or APR. APR is easier for me bc I'm already tuned by them and have an 034 HFC, so I'd be able to keep that but it also is more $$$...

Install went great all in all. I broke a sensor on the turbo, and had a little bit of trouble with the injectors. the CTS kit fit right in there, their tp mounted to my APR exhaust perfectly. I still have to tweak Maestro- doing that today or tomorrow. I have an APR pump and RS4 prv and injectors.

[ericpaulyoung]

Ah I see the confusion. The two APR kits do not both use K04 turbos. The Stage III APR kit is a GT2871

[Jhad]

2 words
Manual Swap

Thats my plan. If i blow up the tip, I will do the swap.(hopefully not immediately bc I have spent alot over the last few months) I think it will be better than getting a rebuild. Plus, I can buy Drakes clutch lol

[groundround]

Ah I see the confusion. The two APR kits do not both use K04 turbos. The Stage III APR kit is a GT2871

ah yes

[groundround]

so we are talking the k04 (cheaper one) with there software there should not be a need to do drop rods.

[Operator]

With their OTS tune you will be fine without rods. Unless you plan to constantly run their 100oct program, it might not be a bad idea....

[groundround]

yea keeping it 93.

[Firefox250]

I'm trying to remember but did't EPY and glissoar's use the APR K04?

[Operator]

Pretty sure neither used APR's K04. EPY Was a S3 K04. And both ended up with custom tuning.